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[Rockyrock]

Loved the ending.

I thought the whole season was fantastic, the only thing that was poorly handled was the kiss, I didn't feel they gave her enough motivations. That's the flea on the show winning dog, though, it really doesn't diminish the whole package for me.

Chandra's whole character went downhill for me at the end.

She just kept making dumb decisions.

And i'll still never understand how the defense never brought up the lack of blood on Nas. If he killed her he would have been covered in it. And he didnt shower or they would've found traces of it there. All I kept thinking was "mention the lack of blood on Nas and the knife!!"

The DA figured that out during her closing argument which caused her to momentarily pause and think he really didnt do it. But how the defense never once brought it up is baffling to me.

 

[akileese]

Bingo.

I loved this show. Absolutely loved it.

It was never about wether Naz did it or did not do it as much as it was about here is how our current justice system works, especially for those deemed to be a minority, and even if they are found innocent, their lives are affected negatively, and that is just the reality of the situation.

It was primarily about the fact that there are flawed human beings behind the justice system, and that in turn means it is corrupt. There were so, so many smaller what appear to be at first glance insignificant scenes to reinforce this fact.

This series was never about closure for the case itself. It was meant to provide an truthful look at the justice system itself. Keeping this in mind I loved it. And I actually thought there was a decent amount of closure. My biggest critique is I felt they rushed the ending and it could have been another episode or two.

I thought it really need either 10 or 12 episodes. 12 may have felt too long, but 8 felt too short. They essentially had 9 episodes with 2 90 minute episodes, but I think they just needed an extra 2 hours to kind of slow the entire thing down.

I do totally get people's gripes with the show though. People will look for the easy way if it's presented in front of them. From the start, I don't ever think Box thought Nas was guilty, but he had the knife, they had eyeball witnesses who saw him and it was easy to tie him to it so they charged him.

I'm with you in that I absolutely loved it. I didn't think it was the best thing I've seen all year, but it was really good. A few scenes irked me but aside from that I enjoyed it.

Also, retrying someone after a hung jury doesn't guarantee the conviction. They had the knife and that was it. No motive and nothing really added up. Whether he did it or not is besides the point. At that point in time, Box had found a better suspect who's motives fit and the DA must have agreed with him.

 

[jett]

That was probably the only ending possible for this show.

Overall, it was well-made. Well-shot, well-acted and well-written...sometimes. Unfortunately, a show that started out as a realistic look at the criminal and justice process leered too heavily into the ridiculous, network TV side of things when it comes to this genre. Several of these characters just end up doing things that are simply too stupid for the world the show created. I can only suspend my disbelief so far.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

It was a bit jarring to suddenly have Duane Reade show up at the trial after the cliffhanger earlier in the season. And his MO was so on the nose that I doubt the jury would have had to hear anything else to establish reasonable doubt.

Does anyone know what the significance was of Nas' friend in this season and the final episode? When he testified at the trial I got the feeling that he knew that Nas was ripping him off and didn't care, as if he and Nas had some unspoken agreement (I think they smiled and nodded after he finished speaking). Then he shows up at the end, and they have the silent staredown, and I have no idea what that was about. Did I miss something?

 

[User 479360]

I just don't get why Naz would get those tattoos.

 

[Einchy]

I just don't get why Naz would get those tattoos.

It seemed to me like he actually liked living in there and probably wouldn't have minded if he stayed.

 

[zewone]

I just don't get why Naz would get those tattoos.

To survive according to the writers.

 

[jett]

I think some are being a little harsh, to be honest this was one of the better episodes aside from Chandra's continuous dumb fuckery.

I just have a hard time reconciling how Naz and her could be so incredibly stupid.

Honestly, it's lazy plotting.

Chandra putting Naz on the stand is obviously monumentally stupid, but the show apparently needed to have a) the drama and b) that moment where the DA starts believing that Naz didn't do it (when she picks up the knife), so that she doesn't prosecute any further after a mistrial is declared. And I guess the show thinks we'll swallow Chandra putting Naz on the stand after we're shown that she has gone full bonkers insane.

 

[User 479360]

It seemed to me like he actually liked living in there and probably wouldn't have minded if he stayed.

Agreed, but it was still dumb.

To survive according to the writers.

True. They did say that, but it felt like bullshit.

He got tattoos that could be harmful in his future life (well, if he was real). It just felt dumb. There was a chance he'd get off given that he was innocent.

 

[uncelestial]

You mean when she lost composure because she just then realized the gravity of what she was doing to Naz when she no longer believed herself that he was the one who killed Andrea Cornish?

Your analysis and criticism are the only things amateurish.

Slow down, player. Everyone understands the scene. Whether the actress did a good job is another matter. She didn't. It would have made her more convincing, not to mention more interesting, if her back story was that she recently suffered a stroke and was struggling to get through her job these days. Because that's literally the role she appeared to be playing. Jeannie Berlin's performance was so weird it was actually distracting; my girlfriend had to Google her and find out if she was legit an actress, with previous experience, or if there was some weird story behind how she got cast.

 

[Super Nothing]

It was a bit jarring to suddenly have Duane Reade show up at the trial after the cliffhanger earlier in the season. And his MO was so on the nose that I doubt the jury would have had to hear anything else to establish reasonable doubt.

Does anyone know what the significance was of Nas' friend in this season and the final episode? When he testified at the trial I got the feeling that he knew that Nas was ripping him off and didn't care, as if he and Nas had some unspoken agreement (I think they smiled and nodded after he finished speaking). Then he shows up at the end, and they have the silent staredown, and I have no idea what that was about. Did I miss something?

Nas was glaring him down and shaking his head after he finished testifying. When he saw him in the restaurant at the end, Nas was glaring at him again and the guy was looking pretty nervous. It was one more of Nas's relationships that was ruined by the trial.

 

[User 479360]

What kind of pills did she smuggle in anyways?

 

[Dalek]

maybe they get it but think the way she was trying to portray what her character was feeling was 'amateur'? personally i thought it was fine

I thought she was great-She had a very "real" quality to her performance similar to some of the roles in The Wire.

 

[CharminUltra]

Really liked the finale and the show overall, although I didn't think it quite lived up to its full potential. Probably not something I'd own on Blu Ray, but I'd be happy to watch it on reruns.

Edit: also probably closer to an 8 than the 9s it's been getting.

 

[Rockyrock]

It was a bit jarring to suddenly have Duane Reade show up at the trial after the cliffhanger earlier in the season. And his MO was so on the nose that I doubt the jury would have had to hear anything else to establish reasonable doubt.

Does anyone know what the significance was of Nas' friend in this season and the final episode? When he testified at the trial I got the feeling that he knew that Nas was ripping him off and didn't care, as if he and Nas had some unspoken agreement (I think they smiled and nodded after he finished speaking). Then he shows up at the end, and they have the silent staredown, and I have no idea what that was about. Did I miss something?

yea I still havent seen a single explanation about the episode that ended on the cliffhanger of Jon chasing Duane Reade.

huge head scratcher

And I think the significance of that scene with Nas' friend is that Nas is an outcast. Despite him being innocent (or just not being found guilty) his life is still changed forever. he can't simply just blend back into his old life as if nothing happened. It was to show how different his life will be now. How a seemingly innocent man can have his life stripped away by the justice system.

or something along those lines...

 

[maxcriden]

Can someone tell me if the cat had a happy ending? I stopped searching till I could find that out. Thank you.

 

[Rockyrock]

I thought she was great-She had a very "real" quality to her performance similar to some of the roles in The Wire.

Yea she gets a ton of hate for some reason. I actually loved her character. I have no idea who the actress was, or if she really talks like that, but she felt like one of the most 'real' characters to me.

She's not a model, she has an annoying way of talking, she's just there to do her job at all costs. She just had that sense of this is of an old woman who's done more than her fair share of cases and seen enough shit for one life time. She's like someone who would work at the DMV, just an everyday person.

I thought she nailed the role personally.

 

[metsallica]

Can someone tell me if the cat had a happy ending? I stopped searching till I could find that out. Thank you.

If living with someone who seems to be deathly allergic is a happy ending... then yes?

 

[OléGunner]

Amazing show, really enjoyed it for what it was!
John Turturro was just awesome throughout, really stole the limelight for me.

 

[Einchy]

If living with someone who seems to be deathly allergic is a happy ending... then yes?

Walking around the house when he's out is much better than dying, I'd say.

 

[Shanlei91]

Can someone tell me if the cat had a happy ending? I stopped searching till I could find that out. Thank you.

The only character on the show to have a happy ending.

 

[zewone]

So no one else was bothered that we never got an answer why Nas was asleep in the kitchen that was pretty much the basis of the entire series?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

So no one else was bothered that we never got an answer why Nas was asleep in the kitchen that was pretty much the basis of the entire series?

Because he was high on drugs and alcohol. We didn't need any more explanation than that. I think most people either personally or know someone who has gone to sleep in a weird place when super gone

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Because he was high on drugs and alcohol. We didn't need any more explanation than that. I think most people either personally or know someone who has gone to sleep in a weird place when super gone

Yeah, the only thing missing was from that scene was a half eaten pizza roll caked to his face.

 

[fauxtrot]

What kind of pills did she smuggle in anyways?

Methadone.

 

[Bitanator]

Yea she gets a ton of hate for some reason. I actually loved her character. I have no idea who the actress was, or if she really talks like that, but she felt like one of the most 'real' characters to me.

She's not a model, she has an annoying way of talking, she's just there to do her job at all costs. She just had that sense of this is of an old woman who's done more than her fair share of cases and seen enough shit for one life time. She's like someone who would work at the DMV, just an everyday person.

I thought she nailed the role personally.

She is the actress in the original Heartbreak Kid, she was great in that role, only thing I know her from

 

[ZackieChan]

Agreed, but it was still dumb.



True. They did say that, but it felt like bullshit.

He got tattoos that could be harmful in his future life (well, if he was real). It just felt dumb. There was a chance he'd get off given that he was innocent.

Dumb character does dumb things. He did dumb things since the beginning. Not sure why that's a bad thing.

yea I still havent seen a single explanation about the episode that ended on the cliffhanger of Jon chasing Duane Reade.

huge head scratcher

What's not to get? Stone didn't find him that night. He got arrested for something else. Came to court to testify, since he would be easy to find if he was in custody.

Yea she gets a ton of hate for some reason. I actually loved her character. I have no idea who the actress was, or if she really talks like that, but she felt like one of the most 'real' characters to me.

She's not a model, she has an annoying way of talking, she's just there to do her job at all costs. She just had that sense of this is of an old woman who's done more than her fair share of cases and seen enough shit for one life time. She's like someone who would work at the DMV, just an everyday person.

I thought she nailed the role personally.

Yep. I loved her. They played fast and loose with what you're allowed to do as a lawyer, but I still enjoyed the court scenes a lot. The one time Chandra objected, it wasn't even a proper objection. And the other objection was from the witness (Box), and it was a proper objection (asked and answered, I believe). Putting that aside, the trial was entertaining.

I don't see the issue with the hung jury, either. Hell, I was a juror once, and we had a hung jury. If they're 6-6, the chances of big movement are slim. I think the judge would have sent them back for more deliberation, but the outcome would be the same.

 

[fauxtrot]

Anyone know if a 6-6 hung jury is common at all? I feel like the writers were trying to use it to show that it was as undecided as it could be, but I've always heard of hung juries only having one or two holdouts, not exactly half of the jurors.

I'm no lawyer, though, so if anyone wants to clear this up for me that is, that'd be awesome.

 

[Twilight Princess]

WAS THE CAT REAL AT THE END? IS THE CAT OK? I DONT CARE ABOUT NAS, I JUST WANNA KNOW IF THE CAT ACTUALLY LIVED.

 

[Kill3r7]

So no one else was bothered that we never got an answer why Nas was asleep in the kitchen that was pretty much the basis of the entire series?

Because he was high on drugs and alcohol. We didn't need any more explanation than that. I think most people either personally or know someone who has gone to sleep in a weird place when super gone

Ditto. Most people do not need an explanation on what happens when you blackout due to drug use or alcohol.

Anyone know if a 6-6 hung jury is common at all? I feel like the writers were trying to use it to show that it was as undecided as it could be, but I've always heard of hung juries only having one or two holdouts, not exactly half of the jurors.

I'm no lawyer, though, so if anyone wants to clear this up for me that is, that'd be awesome.

I have never personally seen it. That said, I think they were trying to illustrate the point that deliberating further was not going to change the outcome. The jury was deadlocked.

 

[blackw0lf]

So for those that have seen the British and US versions, what are the similarities and differences?

I have an inkling the more problematic story beats are Stephen Moffat's doing. (ie. the kiss)

 

[maxcriden]

If living with someone who seems to be deathly allergic is a happy ending... then yes?

The only character on the show to have a happy ending.

Glad to hear. Thank you both!

What's the consensus (spoiler free please) on how the show ended up being quality wise? I liked eps 1-3 a lot.

 

[Victory Red]

The ending was just what I expected due to how the series was panning out. I knew we weren't going to find out who killed her.

The series peaked at episode 1 or 2 and slowly declined and plateaued.

Having said that, I think the ending was good, given my low expectations.

During the finale I was waiting for that goosebumps moment.

While he was sitting at the water under the bridge and hit that crack or whatever, he looks over and sees her, he really liked her.

... right there I was expecting (hoping) that in his drugged up fog that we were going to see him remember standing over her with the knife.

Now THAT would be been an ending and something I would have enjoyed better than what we got.

Other than them having the balls to throw yet ANOTHER suspect into the pool during the series finale to add to the list of plotlines that never got fleshed out and are merely there to just make you wonder.

 

[fauxtrot]

While he was sitting at the water under the bridge and hit that crack or whatever, he looks over and sees her, he really liked her.

... right there I was expecting (hoping) that in his drugged up fog that we were going to see him remember standing over her with the knife.

Now THAT would be been an ending and something I would have enjoyed better than what we got.

Yeah, after the multiple character assassinations / spending more time on Tuturro's feet than fleshing out the other characters to make their actions make more sense (the kiss, the tattoos, etc), I half expected them to have the balls to throw in the "twist" of Naz having a flashback to him stabbing her too. And it was heroin, y'all...

 

[btrboyev]

So was it the cat allergy that healed the exima?

 

[scabro]

this show was almost the killing season 1 level frustrating. the part with john watching the aspca commerical was fucking hilarious though

yea I still havent seen a single explanation about the episode that ended on the cliffhanger of Jon chasing Duane Reade.

huge head scratcher

And I think the significance of that scene with Nas' friend is that Nas is an outcast. Despite him being innocent (or just not being found guilty) his life is still changed forever. he can't simply just blend back into his old life as if nothing happened. It was to show how different his life will be now. How a seemingly innocent man can have his life stripped away by the justice system.

or something along those lines...

remember the shot of the blue light at the end after the shot of john looking at the empty area

remember the same light when john first turned on the UV lamp he just bought

john lost duane, went home, turned on the uv light

seems to have gone over alot of peoples heads somehow

 

[iceblade997]

Variety has a quick interview with Riz Ahmed (the guy who plays Nasir) up on their site.

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/riz-ahmed-the-night-of-finale-hbo-1201846646/

 

[zewone]

Because he was high on drugs and alcohol. We didn't need any more explanation than that. I think most people either personally or know someone who has gone to sleep in a weird place when super gone

Yeah, the only thing missing was from that scene was a half eaten pizza roll caked to his face.

Super convenient for the plot for him to black out at just the right time and right place, got it.

 

[catpurrcat]

Loved every minute of it, and even though I initially wished it went 2 more episodes, I can appreciate the pacing.

The lack of detail and quick pace is what actually kept our attention. Every scene mattered. Every glance mattered.

You could make a whole series about him putting his life back together, but he was pretty much alone to start, and alone to the end (scene on the pier). Only his dad never doubted him.

It felt alot like The Wire, except depending on our own upbringing we each come up with our own observations about what we thought the message(s) are here.

Like, why the tattoos so close to trial? Wont that hurt future opportunities? For a man who barely "belongs" both inside, and on the outside, it doesnt really matter to him.

Did anyone on the show ever consider if he missed Andrea? Felt sad about her? These questions never mattered. After all that happened, all he was left with was no friends, his dad, and staring out over the river where it all started.

Capturing his feelings of "nothingness" were brilliantly done by the creators.

Amazing show, really.

 

[Conkerkid11]

Really wish they would have at least acknowledged the complete lack of any blood on him but his hand. Other than that massive plot hole, show ended basically like the original BBC show.

Doesn't even really feel like an ending though, considering his life will get moderately better when the real murderer is found guilty.

Vice Principals and Game of Thrones have been HBO's 2016 MVP's.

Oh damn, so Vice Principals is good? The previews made it look good, but I didn't even know it had started up yet.

 

[Larogue]

Very bland ending, for amount of suspense, build ups and loose ends.

8.5/10 for the show (if I pretended the final did not exist) 6.5/10 otherwise.

 

[Sanctuary]

I actually thought it had the best ending possible for the information given. Plus, that added extra at the end. I thought:

Spoiler

Either he was going to have a change of heart and go pick up the cat, or that commercial was hilarious because the cat was already there.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Super convenient for the plot for him to black out at just the right time and right place, got it.

Literally the entire mystery behind the series. And it wasn't at "just the right time". It was literally sometime during sex and waking up. You keep making this seem like it's some anomaly when it happens to actual people and no one bats an eye

 

[Einchy]

Super convenient for the plot for him to black out at just the right time and right place, got it.

There are thousands of taxis in NY and she got into his? I don't buy it, that's too convenient.

 

[big ander]

Super convenient for the plot for him to black out at just the right time and right place, got it.

I mean...that was exactly the point of the series. That Naz made a perfect storm of stupid decisions that lead to blacking out—which completely makes sense given his drug/alcohol intake—and thus having no idea what happened between being in bed with Andrea and waking up in the kitchen. So people have to judge him on whether or not he seems innocent, and he himself can never be 100% of his innocence. The blackout is plausible and key to the central themes of the show. I thought it was evident from the first episode that there wasn't going to be some magical flashback reconstruction of what happened.

 

[keltickennedy]

Just watched the finale. The series was really good. Amazingly shot with stellar acting all around.

I still prefer the original UK version that this was based on. I felt like the prison stuff and the ending were a little better.

Criminal Justice. Check it out. I watched it on Hulu.

 

[UrbanRats]

I mean...that was exactly the point of the series. That Naz made a perfect storm of stupid decisions that lead to blacking out—which completely makes sense given his drug/alcohol intake—and thus having no idea what happened between being in bed with Andrea and waking up in the kitchen. So people have to judge him on whether or not he seems innocent, and he himself can never be 100% of his innocence. The blackout is plausible and key to the central themes of the show. I thought it was evident from the first episode that there wasn't going to be some magical flashback reconstruction of what happened.

This to me felt like somewhat of an half measure.

I would've preferred if they never indicated who the real killer was, leaving the audience (and Naz) wondering whether he did do it or not.
I know of course that, finding the real killer was crucial for the prosecution to drop the retrial, but you could've arrived at that some other way.

In this way, it kinda just feels incomplete to me, neither on one side nor the other, of how you could've approached a story like this.
-
In general, i didn't think it was a great show, but i enjoyed it, i put it on the level of something like True Detective, something i enjoyed but i wouldn't want more of it (though i enjoyed this much more than TD, which i actively disliked at times).

The finale was, like the rest of the show, sort of flawed but with interesting ideas.

 

[lucius]

I think cat helped him and was not ugly at all. Kitty is free, Naz is free

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Not a lawyer but if during the course of a trial the evidence points to another suspect, does the state drop the charges to go after the new suspect, do they steam roll ahead so they don't compromise their case - Ie deliberately try to frame a suspect of murder.

 

[El Daniel]

Was glad to see the boss of Chandra again. Her voice puts me right to sleep (in a good way). Wish she played the prosecutor.