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[jelly]

The powerful hover EU regulations come into effect. No hovers allowed to be sold or imported over 1000w.

That should get the leavers all riled up.

Liam Fox, scum as ever.

 

[Psychotext]

You really want to inflame little Englander passions? Do the same to kettles...

 

[frontieruk]

You really want to inflame little Englander passions? Do the same to kettles...

Oi You an' me need a chat....

Spoiler

see you in the cycling thread

 

[Chinner]

Look at that fucking flag in the background

 

[Xando]

The absolute hate for Juncker by britons always suprises me. What has he done to be so hated there?

 

[Maledict]

The absolute hate for Juncker by britons always suprises me. What has he done to be so hated there?

Our right wing, shitty press has a long history of taking prominent European politicians and turning them into the living embodiment of their worse paranoid fears about the EU. It's an easy scapegoating technique that's been going on for at least 30 years.

 

[PdotMichael]

I love how the right-wing can't stop talking about that the EU has only their own interest in mind and is trying to damage the UK, meanwhile did the same people even consider the interest of the other side even once?

 

[Xando]

Our right wing, shitty press has a long history of taking prominent European politicians and turning them into the living embodiment of their worse paranoid fears about the EU. It's an easy scapegoating technique that's been going on for at least 30 years.

I mean i know he isn't too well liked in germany but i've never seen someone call him arch enemy of germany like some guy on sky news yesterday.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Our right wing, shitty press has a long history of taking prominent European politicians and turning them into the living embodiment of their worse paranoid fears about the EU. It's an easy scapegoating technique that's been going on for at least 30 years.

If you took 10 randos in the street and asked them who Juncker was, I reckon maybe 1 of them would know. Maybe. If that. Literally every single strand of the whole European issue is priority number 1 for a real small slither of the population, but for those people it's absolutely the most important thing ever for some reason. And, of course, people for whom a political issue is the most important thing ever for them are the ones who are likely to put their effort into becoming backbench Tory MPs and newspaper proprietors. No one gets into politics because of their incredibly middling, basically nonchalant opinions on Europe. Yet this is what the majority of the electorate have, I think.

 

[StayDead]

I love how the right-wing can't stop talking about that the EU has only their own interest in mind and is trying to damage the UK, meanwhile did the same people even consider the interest of the other side even once?

The right wing also love to say about all the bad things the EU have done (which they make up) and then completely ignore the fact they're doing everything possible to fuck over the poor haha.

 

[Uzzy]

£50b, spread over three years. I can see why they'd want to avoid that being public knowledge before the conference season.

 

[tuxfool]

£50b, spread over three years. I can see why they'd want to avoid that being public knowledge before the conference season.

Ah, so they folded.

Wise.

But they still look like fools.

 

[Xando]

£50b, spread over three years. I can see why they'd want to avoid that being public knowledge before the conference season.

So basically another two months get wasted because may doesn't want to look like a fool at the tory conference?

 

[Conan-san]

Isn't that like cutting an arm off to stop the infection of a zombie bite of a zombie that was bit in the leg?

 

[keep]

If you took 10 randos in the street and asked them who Juncker was, I reckon maybe 1 of them would know. Maybe. If that. Literally every single strand of the whole European issue is priority number 1 for a real small slither of the population, but for those people it's absolutely the most important thing ever for some reason. And, of course, people for whom a political issue is the most important thing ever for them are the ones who are likely to put their effort into becoming backbench Tory MPs and newspaper proprietors. No one gets into politics because of their incredibly middling, basically nonchalant opinions on Europe. Yet this is what the majority of the electorate have, I think.

I would bet an arm and a leg that those people who feel so strongly against Europe also score high on one or several of these:

- Patriotism
- English nationalism
- The importance of the United Kingdom ("we are the FOURTH global economy in the WORLD" etc)
- The good things Britain / the empire have contributed to the world

 

[Joni]

So the Brits are willing to pay 50 billion, that is a good starting position for negotiations to end at 75 billion for the EU. I'd also suggest it to be paid in Euro.

 

[Conan-san]

So the Brits are willing to pay 50 billion, that is a good starting position for negotiations to end at 75 billion for the EU. I'd also suggest it to be paid in Euro.

Right now that's a clean even so...

 

[oti]

So the Brits are willing to pay 50 billion, that is a good starting position for negotiations to end at 75 billion for the EU. I'd also suggest it to be paid in Euro.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/02/pay-2023-german-eu-chief-tells-uk/

 

[Xando]

Guess who had a little bit too much flexibility and fantasy

.@DavidDavisMP says UK won't allow EU to use time pressure to force Britain's hand in Brexit talks #marr

https://twitter.com/MarrShow/status/904268532103315457

 

[PdotMichael]

What do they want to do? Stopping any cheddar exports?

 

[Uzzy]

So basically another two months get wasted because may doesn't want to look like a fool at the tory conference?

The only thing keeping May in power right now is fear that kicking her out will lead to Corbyn in Number 10, which the Tories fear on an existential level. If May started moving away from the hardline Brexiteers position, however, then they'd knife her to death in the Commons chamber, and damn the consequences. Conference season is a great time to plot and see what the members think, so if May's disappointed the hardliners before then, she'll be in trouble.

Guess who had a little bit too much flexibility and fantasy

https://twitter.com/MarrShow/status/904268532103315457

This makes me the angriest. We committed to this time pressure by starting the process without having a plan! Infuriating.

 

[D4Danger]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/02/pay-2023-german-eu-chief-tells-uk/

say what you want about the UK side but god some of these people are clueless. The UK doesn't even have commitments to the EU budget after 2020 and especially not if it leaves.

 

[oti]

say what you want about the UK side but god some of these people are clueless. The UK doesn't even have commitments to the EU budget after 2020 and especially not if it leaves.

Don't feed the Oettinger troll. That dude alone might be worth leaving the EU after all.

 

[pswii60]

Brexit: UK to be 'educated' about consequences, says Barnier

The EU's Brexit negotiator has said he sees the process as an opportunity to "teach the British people and others what leaving the EU means".

Michel Barnier said he would never resort to blackmail but saw it as his job to "educate" the UK about the price it would pay for leaving the EU "club".

The UK has hit back, saying the EU does "not want to talk about the future".

Brexit Secretary David Davis said it was "frightened" and the UK would not be bounced into a divorce bill deal.

The latest salvos come after a week of talks in Brussels about the UK's withdrawal from the EU - scheduled to take place in March 2019 - which increased tensions between the two sides.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41140564

Things are only going to get worse with the war of words until Merkel steps in to try and calm things down.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/02/pay-2023-german-eu-chief-tells-uk/

Yeah whatever mate. Surely the commitments shouldn't be up for negotiation. The UK either owes a specific amount of money, or it doesn't. A fully independent body (if there can be such a thing in this case) should be working out exactly what the commitments are. Any additional payments over and above the legal requirements would surely form part of any future deal, and be separate from this initial bill.

 

[CyclopsRock]

What a cunt.

Eh? It's not really a mad position to hold.

Speaking at the Conservative party conference in Birmingham, the international trade secretary reiterated that no commitment would be given on the rights of 2 million EU citizens to remain in the UK until reciprocal rights were agreed for British citizens in Europe.

 

[CyclopsRock]

The right wing also love to say about all the bad things the EU have done (which they make up) and then completely ignore the fact they're doing everything possible to fuck over the poor haha.

It's worth pointing out, I think, that the EU gets used as a political football by all sides. The right wing press in the UK do blame things on the EU that either it hasn't done, or uses edge cases, or in some instances blames the EU for things that we've independently put into place. However, it's also true to that that there are governments within the EU who basically want to pass domestic legislation but that they know won't actually be able to pass through their domestic legislature, either because it's unpopular or they don't have the numbers. What they can then do is, via the Council, make these areas of legislation an EU priority where they think it has a much greater chance of passing (either because other countries there will vote with them, or because basically no one actually scrutinises what happens in the European Parliament because life's short and almost anything is a better, more enjoyable use one ones time than that). This passes, either as a regulation or a directive, so that national government gets what it wanted (to enact the legislation without needing to go to its own legislature) and at home gets to shrug and say "Sorry guys, we don't like it either but hey, the EU says we gotta do it." In this way the EU basically gets to be everyone's boogie man at various times (and not at others) when it's convenient to do so.

 

[TimmmV]

Eh? It's not really a mad position to hold.

He didn't say it wasn't a logic to his position - just that taking it makes him a cunt

It doesn't need to be a reciprocal arrangement - Fox/the Conservatives could come out and say that existing EU residents in the UK will maintain their existing rights, but they don't want to because they want to use them as a negotiating point - which makes him/them cunts

It's worth pointing out, I think, that the EU gets used as a political football by all sides. The right wing press in the UK do blame things on the EU that either it hasn't done, or uses edge cases, or in some instances blames the EU for things that we've independently put into place. However, it's also true to that that there are governments within the EU who basically want to pass domestic legislation but that they know won't actually be able to pass through their domestic legislature, either because it's unpopular or they don't have the numbers. What they can then do is, via the Council, make these areas of legislation an EU priority where they think it has a much greater chance of passing (either because other countries there will vote with them, or because basically no one actually scrutinises what happens in the European Parliament because life's short and almost anything is a better, more enjoyable use one ones time than that). This passes, either as a regulation or a directive, so that national government gets what it wanted (to enact the legislation without needing to go to its own legislature) and at home gets to shrug and say "Sorry guys, we don't like it either but hey, the EU says we gotta do it." In this way the EU basically gets to be everyone's boogie man at various times (and not at others) when it's convenient to do so.

These don't really seem like equivalent problems though

Even giving the benefit of the doubt that your example is anywhere remotely as common as the opposite done by eurosceptics, the actual argument is entirely different - its "well, this sucks but we have to do it to stay in the EU." vs "look all this shit stuff the EU makes us do, lets leave"

Plus, in your example the government is at least complaining about something that actually happened - StayDead was talking about how the right in the UK just make shit up from nowhere. Even if you wanted to just compare the dishonesty, in practice they're very different

 

[Frankfurter]

Brexit: UK to be 'educated' about consequences, says Barnier

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41140564

Things are only going to get worse with the war of words until Merkel steps in to try and calm things down.

It's gonna be an ugly 4+ weeks. Merkel is in election mode and she is not gonna do anything that makes her opponents feel like they can attack her (i.e. she, literally, won't do anything at all).

 

[Xando]

It's gonna be an ugly 4+ weeks. Merkel is in election mode and she is not gonna do anything that makes her opponents feel like they can attack her (i.e. she, literally, won't do anything at all).

This whole Merkel will do something idea is fantasy anyway.

German public opinion is something like 70% for an even harsher line towards the UK.

 

[Frankfurter]

This whole Merkel will do something idea is fantasy anyway.

German public opinion is something like 70% for an even harsher line towards the UK.

Merkel is nevertheless interested in keeping these negotiations in an orderly way.

 

[Kyougar]

Merkel is nevertheless interested in keeping these negotiations in an orderly way.

orderly, but not in favor for the UK.
Merkel would have no problems to orderly dismantle the UK.

 

[CyclopsRock]

He didn't say it wasn't a logic to his position - just that taking it makes him a cunt

It doesn't need to be a reciprocal arrangement - Fox/the Conservatives could come out and say that existing EU residents in the UK will maintain their existing rights, but they don't want to because they want to use them as a negotiating point - which makes him/them cunts

It's their responsibility to ensure the best result for the UK and its citizens. Wanting to see that the rights they'd extend to EU citizens are also extended to UK citizens doesn't seem like a particularly cunty way of doing that.

These don't really seem like equivalent problems though

Even giving the benefit of the doubt that your example is anywhere remotely as common as the opposite done by eurosceptics, the actual argument is entirely different - its "well, this sucks but we have to do it to stay in the EU." vs "look all this shit stuff the EU makes us do, lets leave"

Plus, in your example the government is at least complaining about something that actually happened - StayDead was talking about how the right in the UK just make shit up from nowhere. Even if you wanted to just compare the dishonesty, in practice they're very different

It wasn't my intention to claim it was. My point was really that, due to the general lack of interest from basically everyone combined with the nature of how it actually works (a fairly arcane process that can see several steps of separation between the genesis of an idea and its implementation) means that the EU ends up becoming basically whatever people want it to be (in terms of 'the PR war', anyway), whether that's in a positive way or a negative way.

 

[pswii60]

This whole Merkel will do something idea is fantasy anyway.

German public opinion is something like 70% for an even harsher line towards the UK.

I think his point is that the German public opinion won't matter so much to Merkel after she's re-elected.

 

[Blue Lou]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41140564

The EU's Brexit negotiator has said he sees the process as an opportunity to "teach the British people and others what leaving the EU means".

Michel Barnier said he would never resort to blackmail but saw it as his job to "educate" the UK about the price it would pay for leaving the EU "club".

The UK has hit back, saying the EU does "not want to talk about the future".

That line is questionable. David Davis ≠ 'The UK'. I presume that's who said it. It seems clumsily written.

 

[Conan-san]

Which is about par for this whole mess.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Someone on Twitter just posted this, which Clegg wrote the day before the referendu:

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/will-wake-vote-leave/

Are you still undecided? Are you someone who – pummelled by weeks of claim and counter-claim – has been left exhausted and annoyed? Have you been looking for answers, yet all you’ve encountered are insults and exaggeration? Maybe you’re so fed up you think to hell with it, let’s throw caution to the wind and vote Brexit. Imagine, however, what happens next. Imagine how you will feel on 24 June? Having woken on Friday to the news we’re quitting the EU, you will assume that those who persuaded you to take that leap of faith have a plan about what to do next. So imagine how dismayed you will feel when you discover, instead, that Nigel Farage, Michael Gove and Boris Johnson can’t agree among themselves what life outside the EU looks like? They may be united by a ferocious loathing of the EU, but they have no shared plan for the future.

.../

It goes on to describe an eerily accurate picture of 2017. Woof.

 

[Funky Papa]

I know I'm late, but (hard as it is) Oettinger is best ignored. He may be one of Europe's worst politicians along Juncker. Just be glad they are not in charge of this mess.

 

[Audioboxer]

I've pretty much stopped thinking about Brexit the past months. Good to get a quick reminder of how much of a shit show it still is.

 

[Auctopus]

I've pretty much stopped thinking about Brexit the past months. Good to get a quick reminder of how much of a shit show it still is.

I've found myself forgetting about things as well but I try to catch myself and stop because I feel like that's what some outlets/the government want. People to get tired or bored of the issues surrounding Brexit and adopt the "Just get on with it!" mentality.

 

[Audioboxer]

I've found myself forgetting about things as well but I try to catch myself and stop because I feel like that's what some outlets/the government want. People to get tired or bored of the issues surrounding Brexit and adopt the "Just get on with it!" mentality.

I had exams to focus on and some other life stuff, so it just creeps into the background. You are right though, Governments love apathy.

 

[pswii60]

Someone on Twitter just posted this, which Clegg wrote the day before the referendu:

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/will-wake-vote-leave/



It goes on to describe an eerily accurate picture of 2017. Woof.

Been posted a million times in every corner of the internet.

I've pretty much stopped thinking about Brexit the past months. Good to get a quick reminder of how much of a shit show it still is.

It's depressing. We have to remember that it's the end result that matters, and none of the stuff in the middle. It's going to be very painful for a long time if we focus too much on the day to day squabbles.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

It's especially painful if you have plans to work in the EU. I wish I could forget about the anxiety that this brings up.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Been posted a million times in every corner of the internet.

oh ok cool

 

[slider]

oh ok cool

I hadn't seen it!

 

[pswii60]

oh ok cool

I hadn't seen it!

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like a shit. Just a bit grumpy today

 

[*Splinter]

Been posted a million times in every corner of the internet.

Hasn't been posted in here.

 

[slider]

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like a shit. Just a bit grumpy today

I slept at work cos I was so busy, had an aggressive cyclist ride at me (even though I was on the pavement - I didn't escalate it as loads of work colleagues were coming into the building so I couldn't afford to go nuts) and then a broken down train at Wimbledon fucked with my journey home. The dog is out, my kids are at the nursery and my wife is now back at work. So I know how you feel!

 

[Zaph]

Someone on Twitter just posted this, which Clegg wrote the day before the referendu:

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/will-wake-vote-leave/

It goes on to describe an eerily accurate picture of 2017. Woof.

The article following is maybe a not-so-accurate picture....

 

[Stead Fast]

I've pretty much stopped thinking about Brexit the past months. Good to get a quick reminder of how much of a shit show it still is.

Ditto to this, and a bit ashamed of myself for not following Brexit over the summer, but a couple of issues with work and family kept my mind off of it. Looking to rectify that from now on.

 

[8bit]