"The US military fights for our freedom."

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Deified Data

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GAF, when was the last time a foreigner threatened your personal liberties?

From the day I was born, I don’t remember a single day in American history where my personal liberties were infringed by anyone other than my own government. I’ve never had a Muslim forcibly try to convert me, or a communist attempt to change my bourgeois lifestyle. Why is it, then, when asked the question “What is our military fighting for?”, the vast majority of Americans will answer “They fight for our freedom, and for the freedom of people the world over”?

Granted, any astute observer knows that, to some degree, these people are spouting propaganda. Everything from recruitment ads on television to country music tell us this is so, that America is at siege – that our military is the only thing standing between us and the barbarians at the gates. And it may hold a grain of truth. After all, where would a nation be without a standing military of some fashion? Ground into the dirt before it ever has the chance to stand, most likely. America assembled a militia during our revolution to repel British imperial rule. Granted, it wasn’t so much a fight for our freedom so much as a fight for certain powerful men in this country to rule over us in place of the Brits, but that’s beside the point. It worked, and proved a precedent.

But now? We have it easy. Our military might is a proven fact, and that standing army alone is enough to deter foreign aggression . The suggestion of aggression is really all we need. This is the philosophy behind our greatest ace in the hole, nuclear deterrence. Could that same philosophy be applied just as easily to our living, breathing armed forces? Is not the threat of an American invasion almost as bad as the fact of one?

I ask this because I see men and women dying in random IED explosions without rhyme or reason, I see men tortured and humiliated, I see brown people being gunned down for the sin of defending their homes, new generations of boys being brought up to hate America as oppressors. I don’t understand who’s freedom we’re fighting for anymore – is it our’s? The Muslim’s? How is my freedom being protected by a 19-year-old kid dying in a car-bombing?

Any sane human being can call the lie – war hasn’t been about defending freedom for hundreds of years. A soldier is not a hero. He is a human being, and is not made invulnerable through the nobility of his cause. My best friends, all Army, would die just as quickly as I would were they brained with a bullet or eviscerated by shrapnel. They didn’t join the army to fight for my right to sit on my ass and play video games. They joined because the money’s good, and because they were sick of civilian life. The men and women “protecting” us are every bit as confused and doubt-stricken as we are. They’re tools of an uncaring government. They realize this, and it scares the shit out of them. It isn’t any different no matter where you’re from – the UK, Australia, France, Canada, etc. There is no honor in soldiering besides that which is fabricated to get you to sign up to begin with.

I know that, as a nation, we need a standing army. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to protect the way we live. But the illusion that we’ve got men and women out there, fighting and dying for us, needs to stop. The sad part is, the vast majority of soldiers probably feel that way. They joined for their wife, daughter, friends, etc. but they can only be fighting for one cause – their state, the only party that benefits from their nigh-suicidal focus on honor and duty.

No clue why I posted this, really. I’m scared shitless for the safety of my friends. Knowing the truth won’t make them any less susceptible to the horrors of war than someone hypnotized by patriotic fervor. I suppose this thread is a means of coping with that fear, on some level. Here’s to someone you know and love not coming home in a coffin, eh?

/taking self too seriously today
/pontificating to people o things they already know
 
what you clearly dont understand is that defending our freedom requires blowing everyone up that appears to disagree with us on any level
 
EschatonDX said:
what you clearly dont understand is that defending our freedom requires blowing everyone up that appears to disagree with us on any level
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Yes, I know we're all cynical know-it-alls on the internet. How do you really feel?
 
Deified Data said:
GAF, when was the last time a foreigner threatened your personal liberties?
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Does my father count?
 
afghanistan and iraq were gonna invade the US
true story

preemptive invasion was necessary

"in the land of the freeeeeeeeeeee and the hoooooome of the braaaaave"
/crying eagle
 
Are you guys trying to say that the US military keeps getting involved in unnecessary affairs?

Well yeah, it's hard to imagine that any sane person would disagree with this premise.
 
The reason why you have such a good lifestyle is because people go overseas and take it for you. Those people are the US Military. Freedom isn't free.
No. There's a hefty fuckin fee. Mostly for foreigners.
 
ElectricBlue187 said:
The reason why you have such a good lifestyle is because people go overseas and take it for you. Those people are the US Military. Freedom isn't free.
No. There's a hefty fuckin fee.
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I'm looking for posts that disagree with mine, and I can't tell if your's is sarcastic or not.

So far we'e got the obligatory "Well duh" posts in. Check.
 
Theoretically the war in Afghanistan was defending our freedom to not get killed in terrorist attacks by attacking the terrorists and those who sponsored them.

Whether we still need to be there is a different story.
 
MrHicks said:
afghanistan and iraq were gonna invade the US
true story

preemptive invasion was necessary

"in the land of the freeeeeeeeeeee and the hoooooome of the braaaaave"
/crying eagle
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I hope you get drafted
 
Deified Data said:
Any sane human being can call the lie – war hasn’t been about defending freedom for hundreds of years. A soldier is not a hero. He is a human being, and is not made invulnerable through the nobility of his cause. My best friends, all Army, would die just as quickly as I would were they brained with a bullet or eviscerated by shrapnel. They didn’t join the army to fight for my right to sit on my ass and play video games. They joined because the money’s good, and because they were sick of civilian life. The men and women “protecting” us are every bit as confused and doubt-stricken as we are. They’re tools of an uncaring government. They realize this, and it scares the shit out of them. It isn’t any different no matter where you’re from – the UK, Australia, France, Canada, etc. There is no honor in soldiering besides that which is fabricated to get you to sign up to begin with.
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This is wrong. I can't speak for other countries but Australia's troops don't go in to blow shit up. They are use for peacekeeping, controlling areas, yeah some fighting but not on the destructive level as America. They go there to help, not invade. And they care VERY much for each life lost. They are also trained to keep our boarders safe like they did in WW2 when we were being invaded by the Japanese. There is honour in that. Men who risk their lives to save other soldiers, there is heroism in that. Just like this guy.

Not all people join the army because it has good money and die because of propaganda.
 
While the current wars/conflicts our military are in are not neccessarliy protecting our freedom, I'd like to believe the men & womens signing up to be soldiers are doing so to protect America.
 
Perhaps they think there is a finite supply of freedom and they need to forcibly take other people's freedom in order to keep our supplies up.
 
Lock this thread. He could have used the search button and found the 1343523948729372394 threads that were created previously on this.
 
Zibrahim said:
What is your avatar supposed to be? It looks odd.
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I am attempting to eat my nephew.
 
Desmond said:
To be honest, it's extremely doubtful that the US mainland would've been in jeopardy
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I'd say that greatly depends on how badly we lost Europe and the Pacific. It would be very difficult to occupy the mainland however if only because of the logistics involved.
 
ultron87 said:
Theoretically the war in Afghanistan was defending our freedom to not get killed in terrorist attacks by attacking the terrorists and those who sponsored them.

Whether we still need to be there is a different story.
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But it hasn't, and has only fostered more hatred of the USA abroad. They would have known that would happen. You can't engage terrorists on a traditional battlefield like that.
 
LosDaddie said:
I'd like to believe the men & womens signing up to be soldiers are doing so to protect America.
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That may be a nice little thing to claim on the side, but lets be honest, they do it for the paycheck.
 
Deified Data said:
Yes, I know we're all cynical know-it-alls on the internet. How do you really feel?
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What is there to say other than to sadly nod one's head in agreement? Our government is now directly intertwined with the military and has been for more than a half-century. War is a normal form of life for the American people. Our troops are constantly deployed on some embarassing, heavy-handed half-baked idealogical or purely selfish endeavor that very very few citizens care about. Nobody thinks about the war. Nobody with a brain really believes that we can ever win a war on 'terror'. Our wars are about two things now: satisfying our monstrous arms industries and pushing and prodding other international bodies into getting what we want. I think that if you're looking for people to disagree with you, you're not going to find many, especially not here. And maybe that's the saddest thing of all, that we all know it's unjust and nothing is done.
 
The Stealth Fox said:
Well, hopefully we can get that war approved by congress. WAR ON YOUR FATHER
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I wish. I have established a list of human rights violations dating back to 1981.

Example: May 10th, 1981 - Sent to bed early without dinner. OR PUDDING! For refusal to submit to forced water torture. Commandant and his apparatchik, also known as, "Mom" insisted it was "bathtime." Had been subject to "bathtime" 2 days ago. They promised no tear shampoo. They lied, THERE WERE TEARS!!
 
Kalnos said:
That may be a nice little thing to claim on the side, but lets be honest, they do it for the paycheck.
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I knew a lot of guys in high school who enlisted because they couldn't afford college and they knew the military would take care of them better then working at Wal-Mart
 
Gonna say something a little offensive, but it's my opinion. If you don't join up for the opportunity to help defend this country or have its greatest interest at heart when you join up, you are no more a soldier than a common mercenary. It's nice that you're on our side, but your loyalty is to the dollar bill, not the country.
 
The_Technomancer said:
I knew a lot of guys in high school who enlisted because they couldn't afford college and they knew the military would take care of them better then working at Wal-Mart
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Honestly, that's really not a bad reasoning. They may be doing it for a paycheck, but that still doesn't change the fact that they ARE at a risk to lose their life at anytime.
 
fmj3.jpg
 
Rikyfree said:
Gonna say something a little offensive, but it's my opinion. If you don't join up for the opportunity to help defend this country or have its greatest interest at heart when you join up, you are no more a soldier than a common mercenary. It's nice that you're on our side, but your loyalty is to the dollar bill, not the country.
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Not necessarily offensive - I tend to agree with you, minus the negative connotations with the word "mercenary". There's nothing wrong with looking out for #1.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
Honestly, that's really not a bad reasoning. They may be doing it for a paycheck, but that still doesn't change the fact that they ARE at a risk to lose their life at anytime.
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A bus/taxi driver probably has a greater chance of dying to be honest.
 
Rikyfree said:
Gonna say something a little offensive, but it's my opinion. If you don't join up for the opportunity to help defend this country or have its greatest interest at heart when you join up, you are no more a soldier than a common mercenary. It's nice that you're on our side, but your loyalty is to the dollar bill, not the country.
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There are those who join the military out of sheer love of the country and desire to protect it. There are others who hate this country and see the military only as a good job opportunity.
Most are somewhere in between.
 
I've actually toyed with the idea of making a thread where I ask a person to think how the world would be different if America didn't play 'world cop' for the past 60 years (or even the past 30). How radically different the power base would have shifted, how radically different the economic base would have shifted. But, I thought it would devolve into a typical thread on NeoGaf (for reference, see posts above).

I, like many people, detest the fact that America spends 800 billion dollars every year on the military. While our politicians bicker over things like PBS or a NASA moon mission 'costing too much'. It's infuriating.

But the rational side of me thinks, what if we only spent enough to defend our own borders? What if we didn't spend trillions of dollars into making these weapons that afford us such a clear tactile advantage over an enemy that they do not dare invade their neighbors? It's scary to think of a time where Saddam's army could have walked into almost any Middle Eastern country (save Iran) and took them over. It's scary to think of a time in the 80's where Libya could have taken over much of Northern Africa. Or more recently, if Chavez were to take over much of South America. Those of course are just a few small examples of naked aggression that could have occurred in the past 3 decades. Which inevitably would have meant misery and death for millions (or billions) of people.

Then of course, once a savage regime gets too much power, America would be pressured into fighting it. Which would mean conscription, which would mean an entire generation of people again wiped out (or their lives disrupted) to save the country. With less effective weapons and machinary, it would mean more human lives at risk.

But we only live on one planet, we only know the reality we have today. There is no way to judge how the 'implied threat' of the American military has altered the world we live in (or how many American or international lives it has actually saved). Or if it has (as some might believe) made it worse. I subscribe more to the former, than the latter.
 
Darklord said:
This is wrong. I can't speak for other countries but Australia's troops don't go in to blow shit up. They are use for peacekeeping, controlling areas, yeah some fighting but not on the destructive level as America. They go there to help, not invade. And they care VERY much for each life lost. They are also trained to keep our boarders safe like they did in WW2 when we were being invaded by the Japanese. There is honour in that. Men who risk their lives to save other soldiers, there is heroism in that. Just like this guy.

Not all people join the army because it has good money and die because of propaganda.
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As a person who spent a career in Search and Rescue for the Canadian Armed Forces I strongly support this post.
I understand the passions and concerns of the OP but it not only seems anti-government but very much anti-military. There is a significant difference.

To state that "there is no honor in soldiering" and speak for countries other than his own is out of line. I also know that there are several non-combat roles in the American military. If you disagree with your friends career decision that fine, but your attack needs to be directed at the political decisions and not generalize the establishments who provide a variety of roles as a "suicidal focus on honor and duty".
 
Hmm...

Thinking about my own family's military involvement.

My uncle was in the ROKMC and served in Vietnam. And well, that was pretty mercenary.
 
There is no way anybody joins the US military for money. I've been in 8 years money is not worth it at all. Now free college tuition on the other hand that was worth joining for.
 
ultron87 said:
Theoretically the war in Afghanistan was defending our freedom to not get killed in terrorist attacks by attacking the terrorists and those who sponsored them.

Whether we still need to be there is a different story.
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This is pretty accurate. Afghanistan was necessary, Iraq and anything else was not. Knowing what we know, we do probably need to pull out of Afghanistan. Al Queda has fallen apart, with it's major leaders dead or in custody.
 
ToxicAdam said:
I've actually toyed with the idea of making a thread where I ask a person to think how the world would be different if America didn't play 'world cop' for the past 60 years (or even the past 30). How radically different the power base would have shifted, how radically different the economic base would have shifted. But, I thought it would devolve into a typical thread on NeoGaf (for reference, see posts above).

I, like many people, detest the fact that America spends 800 billion dollars every year on the military. While our politicians bicker over things like PBS or a NASA moon mission 'costing too much'. It's infuriating.

But the rational side of me thinks, what if we only spent enough to defend our own borders? What if we didn't spend trillions of dollars into making these weapons that afford us such a clear tactile advantage over an enemy that they do not dare invade their neighbors? It's scary to think of a time where Saddam's army could have walked into almost any Middle Eastern country (save Iran) and took them over. It's scary to think of a time in the 80's where Libya could have taken over much of Northern Africa. Or more recently, if Chavez were to take over much of South America. Those of course are just a few small examples of naked aggression that could have occurred in the past 3 decades. Which inevitably would have meant misery and death for millions (or billions) of people.

Then of course, once a savage regime gets too much power, America would be pressured into fighting it. Which would mean conscription, which would mean an entire generation of people again wiped out (or their lives disrupted) to save the country. With less effective weapons and machinary, it would mean more human lives at risk.

But we only live on one planet, we only know the reality we have today. There is no way to judge how the 'implied threat' of the American military has altered the world we live in (or how many American or international lives it has actually saved). Or if it has (as some might believe) made it worse. I subscribe more to the former, than the latter.
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I agree with this post. Nipping situations like this in the bud now can arguably be preventing escalation to another WWII caliber problem.
 
Mims said:
There is no way anybody joins the US military for money. I've been in 8 years money is not worth it at all. Now free college tuition on the other hand that was worth joining for.
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lol wut. I could have just studied harder in school but fuck that noise I'm putting my life on the line for a scholarship!
 
Ok I have a question.

If North Korea decides to go to war with South Korea should the US just stay out of it?
 
ElectricBlue187 said:
lol wut. I could have just studied harder in school but fuck that noise I'm putting my life on the line for a scholarship!
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It's hard to get a scholarship. Plus not everyone is going to get straight A's in high school. The military offers a real chance for those people to get an education.
 
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