Thomas Mahler (Moon Studios CEO) on "Cancel Culture"

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
The only folks going around trying to get people removed from social media platforms and fired from their places of employment are the lunatic activists pushing the agenda.

I don't see any moderates who are calling out their idiocy doing the same thing.

Unless you're trying to make an argument that the only people calling out cancel culture are the far-right extremists, then I think the sentiment is patently absurd. And any attempt to argue that the only people calling out cancel culture are far-right extremists is also patently absurd.
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I was speaking in theory.

When I was growing up, it was always coming from the farther right. However, it seems at least since the 2010's perhaps earlier with the dominance of social media and industries that always leaned left being populated by more farther left-wing people this insanity spilled over to the use of power against others that don't share those beliefs and made me realize how they were on the opposite end of the same coin

I say this as somebody who was farther left myself and had to reassess my belief system and have since become moderate.

I think Resetera is a perfect example of this insanity.
 
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RedC said:
I was speaking in theory.

When I was growing up, it was always coming from the farther right. However, it seems at least since the 2010's perhaps earlier with the dominance of social media and industries that always leaned left being populated by more farther left-wing people this insanity spilled over to the use of power against others that don't share those beliefs and made me realize how they were on the opposite end of the same coin

I say this as somebody who was farther left myself and had to reassess my belief system and have since become moderate.

I think Resetera is a perfect example of this insanity.
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Cancel culture didn't even properly exist until the ubiquity of radical leftist politics swept across the Western hemisphere.

The far-right are a lot of things, but they've never been successful in cancelling anyone; not least because they've always been an extreme niche in the West and more importantly since perhaps the 1920s, they've NEVER held capture almost every major institution and centre of power and influence in the West.

Racist politics pervaded American politics in the South for much of the early 20th century, but it was not so across the pond in the UK and Europe. Meanwhile, the radical left mind virus has infected and captured every major institution in the US, UK, Europe and even parts of the developing world; i.e. those socially democratic countries most easily influenced by liberal American culture and thus politics.

Your equivocation of the extreme left today and the situation with the far-right in the past is simply flawed.
 
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TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
Cancel culture didn't even properly exist until the ubiquity of radical leftist politics swept across the Western hemisphere.

The far-right are a lot of things, but they've never been successful in cancelling anyone; not least because they've always been an extreme niche in the West and more importantly since perhaps the 1920s, they've NEVER held capture almost every major institution and centre of power and influence in the West.

Racist politics pervaded American politics in the South for much of the early 20th century, but it was not so across the pond in the UK and Europe. Meanwhile, the radical left mind virus has infected and captured every major institution in the US, UK, Europe and even parts of the developing world; i.e. those socially democratic countries most easily influenced by liberal American culture and thus politics.

Your equivocation of the extreme left today and the situation with the far-right in the past is simply flawed.
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I respectfully disagree.

We just have a name for how this current phenomenon is exercised online and which side it favors in today's time.

However, I believe this phenomenon has always existed and manifested in different ways. Historically it has favored the right and it fundamentally stems from a similar place as today; a doctrine of moral absolutism intertwined with the exercise of power.
 
RedC said:
I respectfully disagree.

We just have a name for how this current phenomenon is exercised online and which side it favors in today's time.

However, I believe this phenomenon has always existed and manifested in different ways. Historically it has favored the right and it fundamentally stems from a similar place as today; a doctrine of moral absolutism intertwined with the exercise of power.
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This is revisionist history. It's not even remotely reflective of reality. I'm frankly baffled how you can try to make this claim with a straight face expecting that others will actually take it seriously.

I think you're conflating the political right with the far-right and making sweeping statements about history, placing an entire half of a political ideological spectrum into one big bucket.
 
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SmokedMeat said:
Yep. I've seen snowflakes on both sides of the fence use it.
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The right definitely has its own victim narrative that it's using right now.

The right, with its moral preening and authoritarian bend put me off it in the 00s. The left did the same in 2015 and pushed me rightward. And now I'm seeing both sides take and amplify the worst from each other.
 
BbMajor7th said:
The people pushing woke stuff hardest are middle-class, metropolitan liberals who work for giga-corporations like Disney, Amazon and Microsoft - people whose primary concern is their stakeholders and their market capitalization. Marxism is focused on emancipating the working classes from exploitation and extortion by the wealthy - it's why the Soviet flag featured the tools of the labourer and the farmer (the Hammer and Sickle) and the October Revolution aimed at installing a government built of workers, soldiers, and peasants.

'Woke' ideals are derived from wealthy middle-class metropolitan demographics and are most prevalent in wealthy corporate spaces. Socialists form unions to protect their co-workers from unfair dismissal; the 'woke' actively petition mega-wealthy corporations to sack their staff for wrong-think. These two things have no overlaps. Wokeism isn't Marxism, it's a moral figleaf for super-wealthy corporates whose owners have more money than they could spend in a thousand lifetimes. If there was Marxist revolution in the US tomorrow, the likes of Jeff Bezos, Bob Iger and Elon Musk would be on the first planes out.
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One of the most perfect examples I ever saw of this was a live video host who came out, announced her pronouns, and made a land acknowledgement about her location as it related to former tribal land. Then she introduced the company CEO, who I believe announced his pronouns and made the same land acknowledgement, right before saying that there would be no union at his company.
 
TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
This is revisionist history. It's not even remotely reflective of reality. I'm frankly baffled how you can try to make this claim with a straight face expecting that others will actually take it seriously.

I think you're conflating the political right with the far-right and making sweeping statements about history, placing an entire half of a political ideological spectrum into one big bucket.
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To be fair, I understand your perspective, and I largely agree, although there are a few significant points where we differ. I realize that my initial response wasn't as thorough as it should have been, and you deserve a comprehensive reply that addresses each of your points. I'll try my best to provide a more detailed response when I get a chance.

I'm working now, and I just have to be in the right mood to write anything thorough outside of work.
 
Optimus Lime said:
Social media really is the worst thing ever invented. The neutron bomb was a more ethical creation than Twitter.
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That's silly,a neutron bomb can kills thousands of people in one detonation and harm/kill millions of people afterwards. I'm not aware of any tweet that has been that destructive.

Also,the implications is people always had hate in their hearts that can be revealed because they are relatively anonymous.
 
shamoomoo said:
That's silly,a neutron bomb can kills thousands of people in one detonation and harm/kill millions of people afterwards. I'm not aware of any tweet that has been that destructive.

Also,the implications is people always had hate in their hearts that can be revealed because they are relatively anonymous.
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Though I do agree, something like the George Floyd arrest did do a lot of good and bad thanks to social media, same with Donald Trump getting into the White House,
 
RedC said:
I respectfully disagree.

We just have a name for how this current phenomenon is exercised online and which side it favors in today's time.

However, I believe this phenomenon has always existed and manifested in different ways. Historically it has favored the right and it fundamentally stems from a similar place as today; a doctrine of moral absolutism intertwined with the exercise of power.
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I believe the observation that this
phenomenon has always existed and manifested in different ways
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is an important one. Cancelling is a form a punishment and silencing and have happened throughout history.

Interested in hearing in the scientific name and wider description of this phenomenon.
 
Of course cancellations (as in destroying people's reputations and livelihoods or attempts thereof) have happened through history again and again. Hell the whole regime in my country pre-1989 was built around it. Say something against the communist ideology/regime, face extremely negative consequences. And let's not forget Mao's Red Guards and their struggle sessions. Modern day twitter/resetera cancellations are just 21st century version of a struggle session.

The change with social media is that this time, you can get mobbed by thousands of people within hours - all of whom feel virtuous and as Good People while destroying you - sometimes without even being aware of it (like the woman who tweeted a self-deprecating joke, got on a plane, Gawker or whoever misunderstood the joke and cancelled her together with mobs of thousands - when she landed, her reputation and livelihood were destroyed - all over a misunderstood joke).
Or John Gibson, founder of Tripwire - he founded a company, ran it, was successful. Then one day he dared state his opinion about abortion (opinion which is mainstream in US, shared by some 120 million people) and guess what? Next day he was was gone from the company he founded.
I may disagree with him about abortion, but so what? I am not gonna ruin his life over it. But authoritarians will, and there are plenty of them.
 
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gaming_again said:
The right definitely has its own victim narrative that it's using right now.

The right, with its moral preening and authoritarian bend put me off it in the 00s. The left did the same in 2015 and pushed me rightward. And now I'm seeing both sides take and amplify the worst from each other.
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Yup. I was in favor of the left or at least liberalism in the '80s and '90s specially with the religious right and their insanity. I remember when TSR had to change the name of demons and devils to appease those on the right in those days.

Now, the left has become just like the right of the '80s and '90s. It's like it all got flipped.
 
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shamoomoo said:
That's silly,a neutron bomb can kills thousands of people in one detonation and harm/kill millions of people afterwards. I'm not aware of any tweet that has been that destructive.

Also,the implications is people always had hate in their hearts that can be revealed because they are relatively anonymous.
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Counterpoint - if said neutron bomb killed thousands of Twitter users, that would still be more moral and ethical than Twitter itself.
 
I've always loved the look of the Ori games but never played them cause they're on Xbox, and ever since I saw the trailer for No Rest For The Wicked, I thought, "It looks incredible" but I wasn't particularly drawn to it.

Well, I support critical thinking and I will be supporting No Rest For The Wicked when it arrives on PS5.
 
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To me the cancel mob should be treated like Tipper Gore, The Pmrc and the religious right were in the 80s and 90s. It is coming from the same place. They want everybody to conform to their morality or they will try to destroy them.

Their is nothing progressive or enlightened about that even if some who practice it consider themselves to be such. Some people complain about aging punks moving to the right but the conform or be canceled approach by some on the left is 100% at odds with what punk stood for.

To be fair the right does it as well. Some people over use the word woke the way the left uses the ist and phobic words. I have seen games get dragged for being woke when in reality the creators were just following their vision.
 
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Well said T thomasmahler . Gaming culture has twisted into something unrecognizable at times over the past decade. Social media mobs and activist gaming journalists should be disempowered so we can get back to enjoying our hobby and building what we're interested in.
 
All I can think of when I think of "canceling someone" and having them lose their job is this...

knowyourmeme.com

Alison Rapp's Harassment Controversy | Know Your Meme

Alison Rapp’s Harassment Controversy refers to the online backlash directed toward former Nintendo employee Alison Rapp that occurred in response to her pu
knowyourmeme.com knowyourmeme.com

I mean to be fair working for Nintendo while also working as an escort is a fucking stupid thing to do and would naturally end in Nintendo firing your ass.

But just that this door swings both ways, people love to cancel other people no matter what side you sit on. If you manage to dig something valid up easily and bring it to the companies attention it doesn't change the original intent behind the action. To get someone fired using anything you can find on them.

It's so fucking tiring.
 
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I remember the guy being a bit of a chop and console warrior around the whole PS4pro/Xbox one X situation. So can't say i have much respect for the guy.

but when you're right, you're right. He nails the point he is making.
 
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In regards to Maurice, I respect his opinion on video games; he knows what he's talking about, mechanically. GameStar, however... it's often called "GammelStar" ("junk/rotten star") here in Germany for a reason. It's one of those click bait outlets, not as bad as others like meinMMO, but definitely more on the fast-but-low-quality-and-effort side of media outlets.
 
March Climber said:
I like how you worded this part very carefully so that you didn't accidentally walk into a verbal trap, considering recent events.
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I'm not sure what you're referring to; what recent events and what verbal trap?

I worded it carefully to provide the requisite precision. When discussing nuanced topics, details matter... shock, horror... I know, right?!
 
delfrickintree said:
Can we go one day without obsessing over nazis for once?
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u4jqG1r.jpeg
 
kyussman said:
It's funny how this whole cancel culture thing only really exists through the lens of the internet and social media......years ago only a few people would ever get to hear the views of the average person,now everyone can scream their ignorance from the rooftops and the whole world can judge you......of course there will be consequences,even though most of it is just mad people looking for attention.....as someone who lived a portion of his life before social media I'm just fine continuing on without it,I have no use for it.If you choose to engage with the crazy people of the world don't be surprised if crazy things happen to you.,,,,and that's exactly what people are doing when they use social media,you are choosing to engage with a lot of absolute nutcases,fuck that,I don't need crazy people in my life,lol.
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As a 40 year old, I 100% agree with you my man! Most people born after the year 2000 will have no idea what your post means though. And that's sad.
 
kyussman said:
It's funny how this whole cancel culture thing only really exists through the lens of the internet and social media......years ago only a few people would ever get to hear the views of the average person,now everyone can scream their ignorance from the rooftops and the whole world can judge you......of course there will be consequences,even though most of it is just mad people looking for attention.....as someone who lived a portion of his life before social media I'm just fine continuing on without it,I have no use for it.If you choose to engage with the crazy people of the world don't be surprised if crazy things happen to you.,,,,and that's exactly what people are doing when they use social media,you are choosing to engage with a lot of absolute nutcases,fuck that,I don't need crazy people in my life,lol.
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No. Groups and people in positions of power can dedicate how shit can be done and it's most likely folks in those position will practice "cancel culture" than marginalized group/individuals.

I'm not sure if this is a sufficient explanation but here's an excerpt from wiki:

Cancel culture is a phrase contemporary to the late 2010s and early 2020s used to refer to a cultural phenomenon in which an individual deemed to have acted or spoken in an unacceptable manner is ostracized, boycotted, shunned, fired or assaulted, often aided by social media.[1][2][3][4] This shunning may extend to social or professional circles—whether on social media or in person—with most high-profile incidents involving celebrities.[5] Those subject to this ostracism are said to have been "canceled".[6][7][a]

The term "cancel culture" came into circulation in the late 2010s and early 2020s and has mostly negative connotations.[7] The term "call-out culture" is used by some as more positive verbiage for the same concept.

Some critics argue that cancel culture has a chilling effect on public discourse, is unproductive, does not bring real social change, causes intolerance, and amounts to cyberbullying.[8][9] Others argue that the term is used to attack efforts to promote
accountability, to give disenfranchised people a voice, and attacks language that is itself free speech. Still others question whether cancel culture is an actual phenomenon,[10] arguing that similar forms of boycotting have existed long before the origin of the term "cancel culture."[9][11][12]

Before the Internet there was TV, before that radio, before that newspaper/leaflets and before that books,but most people weren't reading relative to today. Social media is just a medium for information that has social effects,the only thing the Internet has done is reduced the barrier to which people can voice their opinions.


Have y'all forgotten racial stereotypes or negative imagery in the newspapers or cartoon back then? Like "yellow peril" or Black caricature from the Jim Crow era.

 
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Honestly, it's refreshing to read a level-headed response. He's going in on some of the comments trying to call him out, too.
 
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