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[Hugare]

This is MS strategy cause they are losing. And have been for quite a while.

I doubt that they would do the same if Xbox was selling like the Switch.

So saying "I'd be surprised if Sony wouldn't end up with the same strategy" is an extremely dumb statement. A studio head being this ignorant is something else.

 

[BennyBlanco]

He's right though. Putting your games on other platforms devalues your console.

How has that played out on the free market? Ps5 is the most successful PS generation ever from a revenue standpoint and nearly all its games are on PC.

 

[Three]

Thomas has always consistently said he wanted the games on all devices and actually called out Phil Spencer for blocking Ori on PS in the past while talking about games everywhere. It's good to see that he is now releasing on PS too.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I mean, it's good for indie developers, but I don't see why this benefits platformholders in any way. They need a unique selling proposition.

And personally, I like having multiple consoles with their own unique look and feel and lineup of content. Switch and PS5 have that, at least to some extent (admittedly, PS5 benefits a lot from botched PC releases/UE5 messes that are better on console), and that makes them far more interesting platforms to me. I get that it's not ideal for some people, but eh. Whatever.

 

[Mr Moose]

How has that played out on the free market? Ps5 is the most successful PS generation ever from a revenue standpoint and nearly all its games are on PC.

Exclusives are needed on consoles, they want you locked into PSN/Xbox Store/Nintendo store and paying for subs.
Day one PC was a huge mistake for Xbox imo. It's a mistake for most* Sony games on PC as well, but they are greedy and stockholders love that shit.
(*GaaS games probably should be on PC).

 

[Panajev2001a]

I think there is still an enormous appeal to a $500 box you can bring home and put under your TV and play all these games on

For some people yes, but enough to pay for PSN+? Enough to buy a good amount of third party and first party games and DLC on?

Implied there is "enough to sustain development, marketing, and support of the console and its ecosystem".

At that point the less profitable the console business becomes the less unique the console can afford to be which would make people less and less inclined not to buy a pre-built box from anyone else that makes Windows or SteamOS compatible boxes which in that world view would run the same games as the PlayStation console with a similar overlay.

I think it would hurt their margins enough to make them reconsider making a console and would drop their investment and they would lose more players… and no, I do not think PC players look for subscriptions to play online nor Sony or MS are anywhere close to replace Steam and that would mean no profit from third parties.

I do not think this pivot would work unless they kind of already decided to be able to afford to lose their console business / keeping it alive in a way that could be a custom UI on top of SteamOS or Windows and buying PC boxes from a third party supplier. At which point PlayStation is kind of dead anyways.

MS had the same thought but they pivoted away sooner with all the money they spent buying studios and publishers, SIE WWS as a multiplatform publisher may not work well.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

For some people yes, but enough to pay for PSN+? Enough to buy a good amount of third party and first party games and DLC on?

Implied there is "enough to sustain development, marketing, and support of the console and its ecosystem".

At that point the less profitable the console business becomes the less unique the console can afford to be which would make people less and less inclined not to buy a pre-built box from anyone else that makes Windows or SteamOS compatible boxes which in that world view would run the same games as the PlayStation console with a similar overlay.

I think it would hurt their margins enough to make them reconsider making a console and would drop their investment and they would lose more players… and no, I do not think PC players look for subscriptions to play online nor Sony or MS are anywhere close to replace Steam and that would mean no profit from third parties.

I do not think this pivot would work unless they kind of already decided to be able to afford to lose their console business / keeping it alive in a way that could be a custom UI on top of SteamOS or Windows and buying PC boxes from a third party supplier. At which point PlayStation is kind of dead anyways.

MS had the same thought but they pivoted away sooner with all the money they spent buying studios and publishers, SIE WWS as a multiplatform publisher may not work well.

That's the billion dollar question I guess, which makes them more money?

Losing some console customers to possibly sell to many more PC customers

No idea personally

 

[Syphon Filter]

How has that played out on the free market? Ps5 is the most successful PS generation ever from a revenue standpoint and nearly all its games are on PC.

They dont put the games day 1 so far, possibly eventually. PS5 is the worst PS console ever by far and an insult to the brand. They arent any better if you are a gamer.

 

[ChoosableOne]

"Steam boxes"
Niiice...

This is of course the best path for both players and developers. He gave the DVD example, but that has been replaced by thousands of new subscription systems. Now we're dealing with thousands of different software on the same hardware. If it weren't for exclusive deals, there wouldn't even be a need for these middlemen, and Xbox will soon realize this too.

Also, I don't understand why you're going so hard on this guy. Are you excited about the interactions he might provide? You already scared our cool guy David Jaffe, at least leave this guy alone (Thomas, I'm waiting for the code of your new game)(David, thanks for the effort but I'm using emulators now).

 

[Rentahamster]

Imagine a timeline where Microsoft isn't losing and is able to take advantage of Sony's live service fuck ups by countering with great games of their own.

Instead, we are in a timeline were Sony can attempt to feed us dogshit, take hundreds of millions of Ls, and still win.

 

[SweetTooth]

How has that played out on the free market? Ps5 is the most successful PS generation ever from a revenue standpoint and nearly all its games are on PC.

PS is not the most successful generation ever because they released a handful of games on PC. They built the brand for 30 years

 

[Panajev2001a]

That's the billion dollar question I guess, which makes them more money?

Losing some console customers to possibly sell to many more PC customers

No idea personally

I do not think it is only some customers lost on consoles to gain many more PC ones but could trigger a lot more console customers lost for PC ones (the latter would be buying games from Steam, a store they have 0 control over, which means Sony sees only 70% out of their own titles and 0% of third party titles) and paying Sony nothing services wise. I understand your argument, but I think it would not be a small portion of players and also each console player to be far more valuable than a PC player (they seem far more price / cost sensitive than their console customers as PS5 price growth and PS5 Pro seem to prove).
I am not sure it is that lopsided, but I suspect it is more like an Android user base vs iOS user base. The latter being far less than 45% of the market but where something like 70% of the revenue is.

Right now, I think it is far more on the side of console customers. They cannot resist the idea of selling also on PC once the bulk of console sales are done, but nothing makes me think they want to make their customers feel like PlayStation is just one of many HWs they can play the same games on, possibly without paying for subscriptions.
I do not think they will ever be able to have a very very popular store that gets them a good chunk of third party revenue ever.

Every console customer they lose is one more reason not to invest in making and supporting console HW too, which is where the slippery slope would start.
The question for the bean counters at Sony that are not suspicious enough of the allure of PC platform should be "are our titles as popular and money making as they are because we control the store and we do not pay fees to anyone?".

 

[ProtoByte]

Well, they won't, and they would be incredibly dumb to do so (porting their games on Xbox, not talking about PC).

No, the PC porting is stupid too. Again, Xbox did it, and it cut into their console sales, didn't help their software sales, and reduced the image of the brand.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

No, the PC porting is stupid too. Again, Xbox did it, and it cut into their console sales, didn't help their software sales, and reduced the image of the brand.

Playstation isn't doing day and date though. I think that's a big difference.

 

[GHG]

That's the billion dollar question I guess, which makes them more money?

Losing some console customers to possibly sell to many more PC customers

No idea personally

The biggest thing they will be (and have to) working out is how to replace the revenue they are gaining from people subscribing to Xbox Live (now the lowest tier of gamepass).

That is assuming they are going the "Xbox OS" OEM route of course. I don't see a world where they can still get away with forcing people to pay for online when they will essentially selling people gaming PC's.

 

[skit_data]

Well, since every part involved seem to be in favor of non exclusivity when can we be expecting the Ori games on PS consoles? I bought the game on Steam some years ago but I'd rather play it on PS5.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

That's the billion dollar question I guess, which makes them more money?

Losing some console customers to possibly sell to many more PC customers

No idea personally

If Sony is losing customers where are their MAUs not falling?

 

[BennyBlanco]

Exclusives are needed on consoles, they want you locked into PSN/Xbox Store/Nintendo store and paying for subs.
Day one PC was a huge mistake for Xbox imo. It's a mistake for most* Sony games on PC as well, but they are greedy and stockholders love that shit.
(*GaaS games probably should be on PC).

Needed for what? Evidently not revenue or hardware sales. They're needed for 40 year old boomers on twitter feelings? Who cares. Market has passed these people by.

PS is not the most successful generation ever because they released a handful of games on PC. They built the brand for 30 years

I'm talking about the ps5 console genius. Porting everything to PC has not affected its popularity.

 

[Sorcerer]

Sounds like what you want to happen instead of what is actually happening.

Here's whats actually happening:

• If you are a platform holder one of the primary ways you make money is not from selling exclusive games, but rather the royalties you earn from everyone who purchases your hardware buying games/expansions/microtransactions on the store.
• Exclusive games are the way that you drive adoption of your hardware (which is typically sold at a loss or cost-price)
• The reason this hasn't worked for Microsoft in recent years is two fold - they have both failed to create exclusives at the level of quality necessary to drive adoption of their hardware and those who have adopted their hardware tend to spend minimal amounts of money on their store due to gamepass.

This situation is unique to Microsoft, hence the pivot. Microsoft also happen to be in the situation where they have recently purchased 2 of the largest videogames publishers, that's a lot of overhead and a lot of output to manage. Neither Sony or Nintendo have this predicament on their hands.

This idea that it would benefit other platform holders to do the same thing that they are doing is absolute nonsense. A quick glance at just how much money they are raking in from people purchasing games on their platforms shows you as much.

First, I don't want anything to happen, specifically.
Xbox is redundant as a console.
Microsoft can't make up its mind, Were going to have the strongest hardware but you don't need the hardware, Everything is an Xbox, your PC, Playstation and Switch don't want that. just use your tv and connect to our cloud.
Your points are good. Perhaps Playstation could exist as the strong console on the market, Nintendo on the low end. But Sony is publishing on PC anyway so even they don't hold the idea of exclusives, at least not at first anyway, or perhaps the pc ports are to mop up those who will never buy the console anyway which is not a bad strategy at all. Either you are in with Sony from the start with the console, or you will join them later on pc. Could be a win-win for them. Maybe nothing gained, but maybe nothing lost either in the worst case.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

"Steam boxes"
Niiice...

This is of course the best path for both players and developers. He gave the DVD example, but that has been replaced by thousands of new subscription systems. Now we're dealing with thousands of different software on the same hardware. If it weren't for exclusive deals, there wouldn't even be a need for these middlemen, and Xbox will soon realize this too.

Also, I don't understand why you're going so hard on this guy. Are you excited about the interactions he might provide? You already scared our cool guy David Jaffe, at least leave this guy alone (Thomas, I'm waiting for the code of your new game)(David, thanks for the effort but I'm using emulators now).

Nah, pretty much everyone likes Thomas - many just disagree with his point here.

People actively dislike Jaffe as a person.

 

[IDKFA]

What strategy? They're doing this out of necessity because hardware sales collapsed. How stupid do they think we are? You think we forgot nadella saying "let's have competition" or matt booty saying " we can spend sony out of business"? They had to go running to sony's install base instead!

This.

If Xbox console sales this gen were on par or exceeding PS5 sales then we would not be seeing Microsoft games on Sony/Nintendo consoles.

The only reason they're doing this is because their console business is failing.

 

[Sintoid]

Do whatever you want Phil, just keep giving us money for being on gamepass, we like money!

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[kazuyamishima]

The Ori games are on everything except PS consoles, so STFU and start doing what you're Expecting others to do.

 

[SHAKEZ]

The age of exclusives is over since the hardware is practically the same everywhere. I get why Nintendo still does it for their console and all that, but Sony is leaving money on the table by not releasing it day and date on PC.

 

[Ebrietas]

PS is not the most successful generation ever because they released a handful of games on PC. They built the brand for 30 years

Moreover the downstream effects of this are not seen immediately. MS started doing PC/Steam in the xbox one generation. It was only in the following generation that we saw the disastrous consequences of that decision along with all of their other mistakes.

When you give people fewer incentives to buy your console...shockingly, fewer people will buy your console.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

If Sony is losing customers where are their MAUs not falling?

I meant if they decided to put all their games on PC, didn't mean they were losing customers right now

 

[DeepEnigma]

I think there is still an enormous appeal to a $500 box you can bring home and put under your TV and play all these games on

PlayStation is a dominate force in this space and I don't see those numbers changing drastically even if they did put their games on PC

Just my 2 cents anyhow

It impacted Xbox. You yourself said they made the mid-gen consoles to stop the PC bleeding.

So going by those two examples, it seems there would be a big impact.

They still make money on the PC since they now in-house port, so even the loss in PC sales from the staggered release, they're still turning extra revenue and profit, where as the same day would more than like cause a bigger cultural dip on their platforms than chasing extra same-day revenue.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

It impacted Xbox. You yourself said they made the mid-gen consoles to stop the PC bleeding.

So going by those two examples, it seems there would be a big impact.

They still make money on the PC since they now in-house port, so even the loss in PC sales from the staggered release, they're still turning extra revenue and profit, where as the same day would more than like cause a bigger cultural dip on their platforms than chasing extra same-day revenue.

I didn't say the made mid gen consoles to stop PC bleeding, Sony said that word for word

 

[DeepEnigma]

I didn't say the made mid gen consoles to stop PC bleeding, Sony said that word for word

Exactly, so then day 1 for all games not GaaS would be even more detrimental to them going by their words.

 

[Ebrietas]

The age of exclusives is over since the hardware is practically the same everywhere. I get why Nintendo still does it for their console and all that, but Sony is leaving money on the table by not releasing it day and date on PC.

Nintendo is leaving money on the table not selling Mario and Zelda on PS5. Valve is leaving money on the table not selling their games on consoles. Netflix is leaving money on the table not releasing their shows on Amazon, Disney, etc.

Exclusives don't exist because of bespoke hardware. They are there to get people to buy your product or sub to your service.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Exactly, so then day 1 for all games not GaaS would be even more detrimental to them going by their words.

Maybe but what if those people would still be buying those PlayStation games not to mention the potential for many more customers

I still say its only a matter of time before they put all their games on PC

 

[ProtoByte]

Playstation isn't doing day and date though. I think that's a big difference.

"The gap is shrinking".

But it actually is, and even then it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, the console becomes devalued, and we know for a fact that this PC porting is actually having a material impact on the development pipeline as per the Insomniac leak. No one can convince me that they aren't purposefully trying to make the games retroactively scalable for PCs, thus holding back what the games could be and spending time and resources of no benefit to PS players.

Plus, it'll have a larger long term impact. They've conditioned people to expect PC ports to come out no later than 18 months from the PS version - there WILL be a statistically significant number of people who bought a PS4 and/or a PS5 who will skip a PS6 if this continues in any way.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Maybe but what if those people would still be buying those PlayStation games not to mention the potential for many more customers

I still say its only a matter of time before they put all their games on PC

Only if they're ready to give up a huge chunk of that 30% and subscription revenue.

 

[Quasicat]

I am seeing that Microsoft is starting to see how government regulators are looking at the walled garden. This keeps coming up in Europe and we were seeing this last year in the US before the change in administration. I don't see it happening anytime soon in the US, but eventually the walled gardens will come up again and it may have to open up as time goes on.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Only if they're ready to give up a huge chunk of that 30% and subscription revenue.

I dont know, I don't have any idea what their internal numbers are telling them.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I dont know, I don't have any idea what their internal numbers are telling them.

Here's anecdotally speaking, just for me.

I will just buy every game on the PC if it's day 1. That is a loss in a future console sale, a loss in a subscription cycle for online play, and they lose 20-30% more money with me since I am now buying all their games on Steam and not PSN.

Why are we not seeing people demand the same for Nintendo? They won't when those very same arguments apply to them as well. MS is mainly a software company trying to buy up every 3rd party publisher and IP it can get its hands on, if allowed. Their model revolves around having to be 3rd party now, or they'd get the axe.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Here's anecdotally speaking, just for me.

I will just buy every game on the PC if it's day 1. That is a loss in a future console sale, a loss in a subscription cycle for online play, and they lose 20-30% more money with me since I am now buying all their games on Steam and not PSN.

Why are we not seeing people demand the same for Nintendo? They won't when those very same arguments apply to them as well. MS is mainly a software company trying to buy up every 3rd party publisher and IP it can get its hands on, if allowed. Their model revolves around having to be 3rd party now, or they'd get the axe.

Conversely I game with a lot of PC only gamers that would love to play Ghost of Yotei day one

No idea if they have numbers on how much that overlap is

 

[Astray]

Spencer tried to wall up the garden while telling everyone that walled gardens are bad and his is great because it's bigger.. Only to discover that no one was in it.

So now he completely opens it up and everyone should too!

Make it make sense rofl.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Conversely I game with a lot of PC only gamers that would love to play Ghost of Yotei day one

No idea if they have numbers on how much that overlap is

Of course, it all comes down to their numbers. And what we are seeing right now on the 26th day of January in the year of our lord, is reflective of that.

 

[SHAKEZ]

Nintendo is leaving money on the table not selling Mario and Zelda on PS5. Valve is leaving money on the table not selling their games on consoles. Netflix is leaving money on the table not releasing their shows on Amazon, Disney, etc.

Exclusives don't exist because of bespoke hardware. They are there to get people to buy your product or sub to your service.

Valve literally sold their games on consoles, too bad they don't make many games nowadays.
The problem with exclusives nowadays is that they're just normal games mostly, nothing about them makes them stand out like before.

 

[Aguero9320]

He is exactly right. More and more people will start to say this over the next year or so… it is inevitable.

 

[Badlucktroll]

idgaf about stupid xbox anymore. they really had something there with 360, but idgaf

 

[splattered]

They have no real incentive to port their games to Xbox but I do see them being way more active in the PC space and look forward to the day I can play games like Ghost of Yotei day one on PC and still buy shooters on PlayStation

I'm sure they will at some point (probably even soon) dip their toes and put some titles on Xbox just to see what happens... wouldn't cost too much to port and nothing to lose really. People laugh now but i also think this is the future we are headed towards... if you would have asked me ~5 years ago i would have said nah no way but today yes, i believe eventually most content will be available on multiple consoles and "exclusives" will probably just be time based.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

"xbox is doing it cause they are loosing".

Then why is Playstation doing it.

Recently one of their old executive was lamenting their Fanboys, and how upset they get on pc releases of their games.

PS want to release everywhere but is concerned about backlash. Their fanboys are conditioned to having almost everything exclusive for 30 yrs.

 

[TehGoomba7s]

Does Gamepass exist if MS was in Sonys position for the last gen? No.

Do MS acquire ABK if they are on top last gen? Unlikely but not out of the realm of possibility.

The reason MS are putting their games on other platforms is to recover money. They've spent nearly 100bn on acquisitions, and then you have Gamepass where most people stack years or subs for the price of one. All their first party games launch day 1 on it, which will kill sales, and most people who sub to game pass are conditioned that no game pass = no buy. It's required for their survival in the gaming industry to recoup that in markets where people will actually buy their games. GamePass can be the best deal in gaming, but this is the cost of it.

You'll only see Sony and Nintendo follow suit when their first party sales bomb as bad as MS have, which doesn't appear close yet.

Horizon ZD alone outsold Gears 4,5 Halo 5, Infinite combined, which had you said a Sony IP that's single player would outsell 4 titles across 2 juggernaut franchises over the previous gen would be madness to even suggest.

 

[DeepEnigma]

"xbox is doing it cause they are loosing".

Then why is Playstation doing it.

Recently one of their old executive was lamenting their Fanboys, and how upset they get on pc releases of their games.

PS want to release everywhere but is concerned about backlash. Their fanboys are conditioned to having almost everything exclusive for 30 yrs.

An amazing world that you live in.

 

[mayham2199]

They have no real incentive to port their games to Xbox but I do see them being way more active in the PC space and look forward to the day I can play games like Ghost of Yotei day one on PC and still buy shooters on PlayStation

I don't think they do day and date pc until at the very least ps6 is out.

Imagine a timeline where Microsoft isn't losing and is able to take advantage of Sony's live service fuck ups by countering with great games of their own.

Instead, we are in a timeline were Sony can attempt to feed us dogshit, take hundreds of millions of Ls, and still win.

to be fair Xbox was doing that for a long time and has only really started to pay for it this gen.

 

[mckmas8808]

Pinging @thomasmahler since he posts here

Saying this, while also saying it's okay for Nintendo not to follow is odd to me.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

"xbox is doing it cause they are loosing".

Then why is Playstation doing it.

Recently one of their old executive was lamenting their Fanboys, and how upset they get on pc releases of their games.

PS want to release everywhere but is concerned about backlash. Their fanboys are conditioned to having almost everything exclusive for 30 yrs.

Is PlayStation putting their games on their direct competition? Nope. So no PlayStation isn't doing it.