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[captmcblack]

Hate speech?

Literally every single one of the things he described were stated/did happen in precisely the manner he stated.

I know the fact really makes the people referenced in those facts look really, really bad...but you have to chalk that up to the adage "the truth hurts". Don't be mad at how the words "make you look" - be mad that those things actually were done in the first place.

Hell, this doesn't even have to apply explicitly to "what if they were black" scenarios either. Isn't it amazing how when non-minorities arm themselves and try to take out the President or related figures, or destroy certain public property, they are called "patriots" - but when a minority does so, they're called "terrorists" in this country? Shit like that happened more than a few times over the last two or three years! Dudes want to blow up the Fed, snipe the President, off Senators that passed HCR, and they're just freedom fighters.

Question your perspectives.

 

[MWS Natural]

Indeed, at the 1999 Michigan State riot (one of several at the campus in the past decade, in which a white mob did $150,000 worth of property damage, all because their team lost a basketball game), a group of white students were actually seen by police trying to pry a loaded shotgun out of a cop car. One guess as to how long a black person doing the same would have remained a living organism. But in the case of the white boys, tear gas was sufficient, along with a gentle “step away from the car please,” shouted over a bullhorn.

Likewise, when thousands of whites at Woodstock ’99–a three-day music festival in Rome, NY–began looting ATM machines, overturning lighting scaffolds, setting multiple fires throughout the venue and committing dozens of sexual assaults in the mosh pit, there weren’t even any cops on the premises to deal with the chaos for nearly two hours: apparently no one thought that a quarter million mostly white people needed to have police around to maintain order. Once things began to get out of control, law enforcement had to be called in from surrounding communities, delaying the response and allowing things to proceed unabated far longer than would have been allowed had the event been one at which a large percentage of the crowd had been black. Of course, once they arrived, the cops shot no one.

Nor did white folks taste police lead when they rioted over inadequate beer supplies in Salt Lake City during the Winter Olympics in 2002. Nor last month at yet another riot at Michigan State, this one captured on YouTube, during which young whites (many of whom had had riot t-shirts printed up before the event, indicating the premeditated nature of their criminality) destroyed public property, threw rocks and bottles at the cops, and chanted, alternately “fuck the police,” and “we want tear gas, we want tear gas.” Because, after all, they have the luxury of viewing police brutality as some kind of a game–a rite of passage, if you will–unlike folks of color who know that saying “fuck the police” too loudly brands you a thug, and inviting an attack from cops might well end with folk straight slaughtered by those all too willing to oblige (2).

And of course that the racial makeup of the Woodstock rioters was a non-issue from the beginning is no surprise. Whenever whites engage in destructive behavior, their race is seen as irrelevant, whereas the same acts engaged in by Blacks or Latinos bring out the chorus of neo-eugenicists, clamoring to explain how there’s something either genetic or culturally defective about the swarthier types which causes them to act that way.

And Woodstock wasn’t the first white riot to be deracialized by the media as of late. This kind of thing happens all the time, with little comment from the larger society. Since 1995 alone, there have been riots involving white college students at Colorado University in Boulder, Iowa State, Penn State, the Universities of Wisconsin at Whitewater and Oshkosh, Southern Illinois University, the University of Delaware, Michigan State, Washington State, the University of Akron and the University of New Hampshire. And for what reason did these students decide to burn, loot and destroy? Either because of the results of a football game, or because of a crackdown on underage drinking.

This isn't hate speech it's TRUTH. White kids destroying property and rioting = fun right of passage. Black people just GATHERING in groups = massive police force immobilized regardless of any violence. I have seen this with my own eyes.

 

[Dude Abides]

If you think that's bad, wait until you see real hate speech.

He didn't even say that, at least not in the article in the OP. Not only can white men not jump, some of us can't even read. No wonder we're so beleaguered.

 

[quickwhips]

Guy writing article is racist.

Dealwithit.Gif

 

[Dabanton]

Guy writing article is racist.

Dealwithit.Gif

Tim Wise is racist now?

A white guy being racist against white people.

 

[MetatronM]

I care that Tim Wise presents a straight up hateful lie: that white people have a license to commit violence.

Except he didn't say that.

"Violent rhetoric" != "violence"

 

[captmcblack]

Tim Wise is recounting stuff that *actually happened*.

This isn't his opinion on stuff. This is stuff that really occurred.

Woodstock riots happened. College riots happened. Tea Party threats against the president happened. Armed appearances by people at presidential rallies happened.

We know the demography of the groups that did those things. Tim Wise asked a very specific and very interesting question regarding that demography - if the majority of the groups that did - and continue to do - the various things being referenced were blacks/minorities instead of whites, how would they be perceived? What would become of those groups?

That is what we should discuss, not "is Tim Wise racist against his own racial group for no reason".

 

[Zaptruder]

Eh, pretty sure White Supremacists are just about the most reviled people in America and with the FBI etc keeping a close watch and prosecuting whenever possible.

Tim Wise is being very disengenious. The idea that whites have a free pass to commit violence is a flat out lie.

If what Tim Wise says about white people were said about black people he would be accused of hate speech.

I'm pretty sure that the point is that these people aren't been readily recognized for the scum that they are, because they're broadly catergorized under the banner of the Tea Party, and further characterized as 'everyday americans', when in fact they're the most loathsome of americans.

 

[CountScary]

Imagine if two white guys dressed in white robes stood outside a polling place on election day with nightsticks and told people "You going be ruled by the WHITE man" in a largely black neighborhood and our white attorney general dismissed the case and said that focusing on it demeaned his people.

:-/

I'm pretty sure that the point is that these people aren't been readily recognized for the scum that they are, because they're broadly catergorized under the banner of the Tea Party, and further characterized as 'everyday americans', when in fact they're the most loathsome of americans.

Thank you, good to know that my 72 year old mother is scum and the most loathsome of Americans. LOL.

 

[SmokyDave]

I'm pretty sure that the point is that these people aren't been readily recognized for the scum that they are, because they're broadly catergorized under the banner of the Tea Party, and further characterized as 'everyday americans', when in fact they're the most loathsome of americans.

But who isn't recognizing them for the scum they are?

All I see is criticism of the Tea Party from outsiders, regardless of colour or creed. Nobody has a good word to say about them. Is anyone really describing them as 'everyday Americans' aside from the members themselves and the politicians that seek to court them?

Edit: Actually, I'm in no way qualified to judge this. I only hear about the Tea Party on GAF, which skews away from that sort of thing. For all I know they may well be embraced by mainstream America.

 

[Shig]

Last I fucking checked, there is a large contingent of people who see this exact view of the Tea Party.

Yes, but the media treats them with legitimacy. Fox and the right-wing spin machine kind of have the rest of the media's balls in a grip, they command too much popular mindshare and opinion to go against something they sanction. If a legitimate news station had the audacity to call a spade a spade and establish a consistent, non-editorialized, matter-of-fact tone that the Tea Party was largely a bunch of fringe loonies, the right would have no trouble whipping their followers into an unholy frenzy and making life very, very hard for that station.

 

[captmcblack]

Imagine if two white guys dressed in white robes stood outside a polling place on election day with nightsticks and told people "You going be ruled by the WHITE man" in a largely black neighborhood and our white attorney general dismissed the case and said that focusing on it demeaned his people.

:-/

Imagine if instead of one isolated and questionably-reported/dramatized event that has been disputed (and subsequently thrown out of the courts as a result), this was a regular, common event that actually inarguably happened, repeated all across the country both physically and institutionally via laws, taxes and clauses for the entire existence of America up until the 1960s and the Civil Rights movement!

:-/

 

[Zaptruder]

But who isn't recognizing them for the scum they are?

All I see is criticism of the Tea Party from outsiders, regardless of colour or creed. Nobody has a good word to say about them. Is anyone really describing them as 'everyday Americans' aside from the members themselves and the politicians that seek to court them?

Edit: Actually, I'm in no way qualified to judge this. I only hear about the Tea Party on GAF, which skews away from that sort of thing. For all I know they may well be embraced by mainstream America.

middle america, main stream media, and apathetic americans.

Sure, everyone outside of the bubble of political insanity in America can see them for what they are; but there's enough obfuscation of what they are that they can become a legitimate political force where 72 y.o grannies join them.

 

[JCX]

While I was much too young for the 1999 MSU riots, the recent ones have been treated by the local police with almost all of the charm of a police state. Riot gear, tear gas, rubber bullet grenades, and temporarily suspended constitutional rights on private property.

Anyway, read this article in the other recent race thread, and it's great. Had not really thought about it, but Fox News would not stand for any minority group to protest like the tea party does.

This kind of relates to how culture attempts to castrate black males by not allowing us to be angry in public, or else it is being a "stereotype".

 

[jorma]

Is the argument here that black kids should be able to riot a bit safer without risking their lifes, or is it that the police does not shoot enough white kids?

Because i can understand the first, but it sounds more like people are arguing the second.

 

[shuri]

It would be the only thing to remove that smug look off his face



White kids riot and destroy thousands of dollars in property after sports events every single year with very little reaction from the police.

lol what they arrest tons of people everytime that happens. Even students riots here are met with antriot horses stomping around, teargas and shields being slammed on heads

 

[CountScary]

Imagine if instead of one isolated and questionably-reported/dramatized event that has been disputed (and subsequently thrown out of the courts as a result), this was a regular, common event that actually inarguably happened, repeated all across the country both physically and institutionally via laws, taxes and clauses for the entire existence of America up until the 1960s and the Civil Rights movement!

:-/

It wasn't thrown out - the Black Panthers did not show up and a summary judgement was issued against them. Essentially they were found guilty and THEN the case was dismissed by the justice department. I'm not equating anything to the treatment of blacks in the 60's - I'm just saying if THIS incident had been reversed (as Wise is doing in his article) you would not be so quick to dismiss it.

 

[Realyst]

Imagine if instead of one isolated and questionably-reported/dramatized event that has been disputed (and subsequently thrown out of the courts as a result), this was a regular, common event that actually inarguably happened, repeated all across the country both physically and institutionally via laws, taxes and clauses for the entire existence of America up until the 1960s and the Civil Rights movement!

:-/

This, right here.

I was just about to type up something similar. Bravo.

 

[captmcblack]

there's enough obfuscation of what they are that they can become a legitimate political force where 72 y.o grannies join them.

That is all aces, right there.

Pay attention to the media you consume, and where it comes from too - seriously. While we're all watching all the Charlie Sheen minutia on the local news, watching a special Charlie Sheen report on 60 Minutes or 20/20, checking out a Charlie Sheen expose on Extra/TMZ/Access Hollywood, reading a Charlie Sheen article in a magazine, reading Charlie Sheen quotes in threads in this forum that link back to his Twitter feed, we get caught up in the matrix and miss the part where BP is running ads with "non-paid real people" that say everything is fine and that BP improved his life on the Gulf Coast and that shrimp runs through his veins just like his blood...which is just enough goodwill for BP to buy some political influence shortly when ANWR is opened up or something.

There is a lot of obfuscation of information, especially in this world where media exposure can be bought for the right amount of $$$. Of course there's going to be more than a few grannies and regular, non-murderous and non-overly racist/bigoted/crazy people in the Tea Party; the people that paid to advertise their exploits and to help organize them wouldn't get good return on their investment otherwise, right? But don't be fooled by the thin coating of "average people" and ignore the numerous more unsavory people/events/soundbites/etc associated explicitly with that group.

We don't have to label the group if it's going to be a semantics thing...but let's make sure we're keeping it real when dealing with them, yeah?

 

[Azih]

So who the hell is this guy speaking on behalf of? Is he insinuating that most whites are ok with the examples mentioned in his article?

He's saying that whites can get away with incredibly violent rhetoric where minorities can't.

 

[JoeBoy101]

Yes, but the media treats them with legitimacy. Fox and the right-wing spin machine kind of have the rest of the media's balls in a grip, they command too much popular mindshare and opinion to go against something they sanction. If a legitimate news station had the audacity to call a spade a spade and establish a consistent, non-editorialized, matter-of-fact tone that the Tea Party was largely a bunch of fringe loonies, the right would have no trouble whipping their followers into an unholy frenzy and making life very, very hard for that station.

Why shouldn't they treat them with legitimacy? Regardless of fever swamp GAF and Tim Wise here, there aren't a bunch of riots breaking out, a bunch of violence breaking out, or a bunch of shit being blown up. And you don't have to believe me, because if there were, Tim would be using that for examples and not spitting or half-assed comments from has-been commentators.

Simple fact is that the demographics of the Tea Party are roughly the same percentage of a the general populace. Its not a racial movement. Now switch those numbers with majority being black, and is it a racial movement then?

Nope. All depends on what the message is.

Tim is comparing apples to oranges, with the only significant referential data for extended and large scale black demonstrations being upwards of 50 years ago. The Million Man March, while very significant, was only a single event outside a larger movement.

 

[Big Baybee]

Tim Wise tells it how it is.

 

[Tim-E]

Oh, those poor, defenseless white people. How dare Tim Wise bully them after hundreds of years of being so nice to Native Americans, Africans/African Americans, and Latinos (even poor white people).

This nation's history is built upon white people getting away with doing whatever the fuck they want to minorities because they claim it to be in the name of "progress." Because of this, racism has always been institutionalized in this country in nearly every facet and it still is. If you think it isn't then you're simply not paying attention or you just don't want to acknowledge it.

 

[Broseybrose]

I don't think we even have to 'imagine it', we have cases to compare and contrast with! How many viewed the Panthers as upholders of the foundations of the constitution lol.

My father did. He's Italian (white), but he believed in their cause enough to fight alongside them in NY in the 60s and 70s.

 

[JoeBoy101]

My father did. He's Italian (white), but he believed in their cause enough to fight alongside them in NY in the 60s and 70s.

I imagine that's why. Was he an immigrant or did his parents/grandparents immigrate in the early 1900's? If so, probably faced similar kinds of racism.

 

[Azih]

My father did. He's Italian (white), but he believed in their cause enough to fight alongside them in NY in the 60s and 70s.

But how did the police and media treat them, as compared to the Tea Party?

 

[nib95]

Fantastic article. Read it earlier but worth the read again.

 

[Dude Abides]

But how did the police and media treat them, as compared to the Tea Party?

Wiretaps, assassinations, etc.

 

[empty vessel]

Wiretaps, assassinations, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

 

[AbsoluteZero]

I'm pretty sure there are african-americans in the Tea Party movement.

 

[Tim-E]

I'm pretty sure there are african-americans in the Tea Party movement.

All 2 of them.

 

[samus i am]

I agree with the article 100%. The saddest part of it is that most white people believe that racism and discrimination has ended already.

 

[Dude Abides]

I agree with the article 100%. The saddest part of it is that most white people believe that racism and discrimination has ended already.

Except for discrimination against white people, which runs rampant. I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!@!

 

[Tim-E]

I know people that are genuinely scared about the day when there are more Latinos in the US than white people in a few decades.

 

[SmokyDave]

I know people that are genuinely scared about the day when there are more Latinos in the US than white people in a few decades.

Eh, I think that's kind of understandable. The formerly oppressed seem to quickly forget once in a position to oppress others. See Liberia for example. For anyone alive today to be worrying about is over-zealous, however.

 

[Htown]

Which is why Rush Limbaugh could say, this past week, that the Tea Parties are the first time since the Civil War that ordinary, common Americans stood up for their rights

holy crap really?

 

[Tim-E]

holy crap really?

He truly is an despicable human being. I already knew this, but I welcome any further supporting evidence such as this.

 

[Zeliard]

I agree with the article 100%. The saddest part of it is that most white people believe that racism and discrimination has ended already.

You mean it didn't end when Obama became president?

 

[SouthernDragon]

I know people that are genuinely scared about the day when there are more Latinos in the US than white people in a few decades.

heheheh

 

[Tim-E]

I, for one, welcome our non-white overlords.

 

[spiderman123]

Tim Wise is racist now?

A white guy being racist against white people.

he actually said that he was racist.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Gotta love the people being intentionally obtuse to the point of the article. That's real class.

Eh, I think that's kind of understandable. The formerly oppressed seem to quickly forget once in a position to oppress others. See Liberia for example. For anyone alive today to be worrying about is over-zealous, however.

That's...an interesting way of thinking about it.

Those in power want to stay in power. It is, has been, and forever will be that way.

 

[adamsappel]

 

[JoeBoy101]

images

Just to mention, one of those companies is based in the US (AP) and one is based in Europe (AFP). Not really a valid comparison, though a reasonable point.

 

[Dali]

I thought that was what rap/hip hop was about. And it's not like there is hundreds of white gusy in that world.

Lol, rap is just a bunch of actors acting like thugs. Back in the day before the white people in charge realized this you had the President targeting Ice-T and people calling for his head for the lyrics to songs like "Cop Killer". A politician couldn't make a public appearance without throwing in a reference to the evils of "gangsta rap". That was before Ice-Cube was the producer of a family sitcom, Snoop Dogg had a reality show, and Ice-T was a regular on Law &Order. Also before Ludacris, DMX, Nas, Method Man, Redman, etc. decided rappers shouldn't have to wait for their rap career to be over before showing the world they were actors.

If you want compare rappers to angry, gun-totting, citizens, making direct threats to elected officials, and spitting violent and incendiary rhetoric without getting paid or having to step into any sort of role or character outside of who they actually are, then... uhhhh... have fun looking silly.

 

[PhoenixDark]

points

Sure a large group of people think the same thing about the tea party, but the fact remains that they are not seen as a racist or violent movement despite their rhetoric by the media or most people. A black group doing the same things would not be given the same ridiculous praise the tea party gets. CNN certainly wouldn't be falling over itself to interview and include them in reports.

Large crowds of black people with guns demanding change would be seen different, that's simply a fact.

This really comes back to White Privileged and the idea of white people being oppressed. The fact that they can continually get away with this behavior in general is another reason I laugh at the idea.

 

[RoH]

The cold hard truth,

 

[BloodySinner]

Has it really been 6 years since the incident? Holy shit time flies.

 

[JoeBoy101]

Sure a large group of people think the same thing about the tea party, but the fact remains that they are not seen as a racist or violent movement despite their rhetoric by the media or most people. A black group doing the same things would not be given the same ridiculous praise the tea party gets. CNN certainly wouldn't be falling over itself to interview and include them in reports.

Large crowds of black people with guns demanding change would be seen different, that's simply a fact.

This really comes back to White Privileged and the idea of white people being oppressed. The fact that they can continually get away with this behavior in general is another reason I laugh at the idea.

But are we certain of this? Please correct me if wrong but the best most recent analogy, and the one be used in the thread here, is the Black Panthers. Well, the height of that activity was during the sixties into the seventies. So we are talking 40-50 years ago. I'm not saying racism is gone at all (is anyone arguing in here that whites are oppressed, like that stupid thread a day or so ago?), but I think its equally naive' to expect the same exact result after that time period.

 

[Stinkles]

Note that the black dude appears to be carrying diapers too. The monster.