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[CazTGG]

There is a move underway by several city councillors to have Pride Toronto denied city funding because of its decision to exclude the Toronto Police Service from this year's festivities, CBC News has learned.

Coun. John Campbell (Ward 4, Etobicoke Centre) has drafted a motion, which he says he'll present at an upcoming council meeting, that asks city staff to withhold Pride's $260,000 grant "pending Pride's reaffirmation of its core value of inclusivity."

The parade last summer was held up by a contingent from Black Lives Matter until Pride organizers agreed to a list of demands, including a promise to prevent uniformed police from participating in future.

"Why is the city funding it, when they're using these tactics of exclusion against the police?" Campbell said Monday. Pride Toronto "got bullied into it by Black Lives Matter, and it was wrong."

CBC Toronto was in touch with Pride Toronto several times on Monday but the group has so far not offered any comment on the councillor's motion.

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-pride-police-1.4043261

Fight the power if old.

 

[Infinite]

wouldn't this end up proving BLM Toronto's point? lol Not a smart decision and I don't see this happening

 

[Cactus]

This is one of those stories where I disagree with all parties involved.

 

[Sushi Nao]

"There's no such thing as systemic racism, so let's cut funding cause of black people"

 

[Boylamite]

This is one of those stories where I disagree with all parties involved.

Actually, yeah I think that's where I am at too. It's just an all around shitty situation.

 

[jstripes]

Ya, BLM's feud with the Police over Pride is kind of self-destructive. You don't build a better relation with them by icing them out.

I don't agree with the de-funding motion, though.

"There's no such thing as systemic racism, so let's cut funding cause of black people"

"Relations between the police and the black community need to be improved, so let's force the police out of an event designed to build relations with another minority group."

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

This is one of those stories where I disagree with all parties involved.

Yeah, I was just about to say, literally everyone involved in this is handling things completely wrong. Christ.

 

[mrhyderager]

This is one of those stories where I disagree with all parties involved.

Agreed. Petty of the city to pull funding but also ignorant of Pride to ask for money from the city but not use some of it to pay for the police to be there. (HINT:

Spoiler

They'll have to show up anyway.

)

 

[Brinbe]

Ford Nation

 

[Infinite]

Agreed. Petty of the city to pull funding but also ignorant of Pride to ask for money from the city but not use some of it to pay for the police to be there. (HINT:

Spoiler

They'll have to show up anyway.

)

I thought the issue was the police getting a police float in the pride parade and not being present to do their duty they'll have to do anyway.

 

[antonz]

It is a shitty situation all around. Gay Police have every right to March in the parade especially if public funding is involved. So the city is not wrong to consider a removal of funding if discriminatory practices are upheld.

Shitty of BLM to have created this situation in the first place.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

I personally don't think the police should be banned from it.... it's safer with cops around

 

[Sushi Nao]

Ya, BLM's feud with the Police over Pride is kind of self-destructive. You don't build a better relation with them by icing them out.

I don't agree with the de-funding motion, though.

Really though? Not rhetorically, why is it an issue for the police? Is retaliation against black people expected?

"Relations between the police and the black community need to be improved, so let's force the police out of an event designed to build relations with another minority group."

Again, why? Is not the police's job to not have bad relations with minority groups in the first place?

The implication here is that if they're excluded they're going to make it hard for minorities.

 

[old manatee]

Everybody involved in this story is working hard to build those bridges.

 

[wamberz1]

I personally don't think the police should be banned from it.... it's safer with cops around

They didn't get banned they just don't get a float IIRC

 

[CazTGG]

It is a shitty situation all around. Gay Police have every right to March in the parade especially if public funding is involved. So the city is not wrong to consider a removal of funding if discriminatory practices are upheld.

Shitty of BLM to have created this situation in the first place.

They can attend the parade, just not in uniform.

 

[Boylamite]

It's so wierd too because pride promotes literally the exact opposite behaviour currently on display from all sides.

I used to live at yonge and bloor and was able to attend/work at multiple events and everyone, including the cops, were having an amazing time.

Thus is why we can't have nice things.

 

[jstripes]

Really though? Not rhetorically, why is it an issue for the police? Is retaliation against black people expected?

The police have been actively involved in Pride for years, and then BLM came into the picture, disrupted things for reasons that I admit I don't know all that well, and promised a massive headache for Pride unless they removed the police from the parade. Pride reluctantly said "ok", and the police said "wtf man?"

 

[Sushi Nao]

The police have been actively involved in Pride for years, and then BLM came into the picture, disrupted things for reasons that I admit I don't know all that well, and promised a massive headache for Pride unless they removed the police from the parade. Pride reluctantly said "ok", and the police said "wtf man?"

Yeah, so? Are they gonna bust some heads cause they feel left out?

They random stop a disproportionate number of black people. Stop that, then talk about inclusivity

 

[Boylamite]

Yeah, so? Are they gonna bust some heads cause they feel left out?

They random stop a disproportionate number of black people. Stop that, then talk about inclusivity

It just seems so counter productive to fight another group who have had to put up with a lot of shit from society.

 

[lenovox1]

They can attend the parade, just not in uniform.

But, but... There are gay police people, though. That might want to be represented in the parade.


BLM Toronto did not think about the implications of this at all.

 

[akira28]

lets hit back at those black people. those social justice protest bullies.

It's so wierd too because pride promotes literally the exact opposite behaviour currently on display from all sides.

I used to live at yonge and bloor and was able to attend/work at multiple events and everyone, including the cops, were having an amazing time.

Thus is why we can't have nice things.

everyone doesn't get to have those nice things, is the point

 

[Silver Arrows]

Yeah, so? Are they gonna bust some heads cause they feel left out?

They random stop a disproportionate number of black people. Stop that, then talk about inclusivity

This is a US problem, but do you have stats or proof that the Toronto Police Department do this? I'm just curious, because from what I have seen, they don't.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

It just seems so counter productive to fight another group who have had to put up with a lot of shit from society.

Lmao, as if the black community does not. But yes, poor poor police.

 

[jstripes]

Yeah, so? Are they gonna bust some heads cause they feel left out?

They random stop a disproportionate number of black people. Stop that, then talk about inclusivity

The police aren't promising retaliation, as far as I know, but they're pretty offended by it.

They key is you don't improve relations by setting back relations.

 

[Boylamite]

Lmao, as if the black community does not. But yes, poor poor police.

That was my point.

Black people and gay people have both had to put up with a whole lot of shit. I remember one of my friends I worked with in that neighborhood had immigrated from Spain. First week in Toronto, had his face smashed in with a bat by random thugs looking to beat up some fags.
I remember meeting some shitheads at the Duke of Gloucester who asked me and my buddies if we wanted to join them to go out gay bashing.
Walking home from work I've had dudes yell "FAGGOT" at me from their car window.

You thought I was talking about the cops? Wow I don't blame you for calling me out. I would have too.

 

[Sushi Nao]

This might be a US problem, but do you have stats or proof that the Toronto Police Department do this? I'm just curious, because from what I have seen, they don't.

Halifax, but OPP have a pretty rough rep across the country

 

[lenovox1]

Lmao, as if the black community does not. But yes, poor poor police.

He means the LGBT community.

Did people forget what Pride is actually about? And that you can have black members of the LGBT community and the police together in one location and that's partially the point.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Halifax, but OPP have a pretty rough rep across the country

Thank you.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

That was my point.

I don't care, you can't seriously be boosting up the police as victims vs the black community. That's fucking ridiculous by any metric.

He means the LGBT community.

Did people forget what Pride is actually about? And that you can have black members of the LGBT community and the police together in one location and that's partially the point.

Poorly worded if so considering who he quoted was specifically mentioning the police.

 

[akira28]

That was my point.

black people have had to face so much shit, why would they ever object to anything?

He means the LGBT community.

Did people forget what Pride is actually about? And that you can have black members of the LGBT community and the police together in one location and that's partially the point.

I wonder that sometimes myself.

 

[Infinite]

But, but... There are gay police people, though. That might want to be represented in the parade.


BLM Toronto did not think about the implications of this at all.

Yeah umm gay police officers can go to the parade.

 

[Sushi Nao]

The police aren't promising retaliation, as far as I know, but they're pretty offended by it.

They key is you don't improve relations by setting back relations.

It is not the responsibility of minority groups to appease those who oppress them. It is the responsibility of those with government mandated power to perform the outreach. If the outreach fails, they try again.

 

[Jakten]

But, but... There are gay police people, though. That might want to be represented in the parade.


BLM Toronto did not think about the implications of this at all.

Gay police officers can take part as regular people just not as a uniformed officer.

Also fuck these people if they actually withhold this.

 

[excelsiorlef]

He means the LGBT community.

Did people forget what Pride is actually about? And that you can have black members of the LGBT community and the police together in one location and that's partially the point.

Pride is about standing up against oppression of Queer folk of all Colour... which you know includes black folk.

Good lord Pride used to be a revolutionary thing, it used it be about the fight and the struggle... not about making sure people with power feel comfortable.

 

[Volimar]

This is one of those stories where I disagree with all parties involved.

Yep.

 

[CazTGG]

But, but... There are gay police people, though. That might want to be represented in the parade.


BLM Toronto did not think about the implications of this at all.

Read what I wrote again. Gay police are not prohibited from being a part of the parade, they are simply not being given a float like they were in prior years or be in uniform.

This is a US problem, but do you have stats or proof that the Toronto Police Department do this? I'm just curious, because from what I have seen, they don't.

We call it carding in these parts. Canada's police may not be as bad as the U.S. but let's not pretend that there isn't systemic racism within our police force.

 

[Boylamite]

I don't care, you can't seriously be boosting up the police as victims vs the black community. That's fucking ridiculous by any metric.

I'm not painting the cops as anything. I would never suggest that.

 

[zelas]

That's some weird logic.

 

[jstripes]

It is not the responsibility of minority groups to appease those who oppress them. It is the responsibility of those with government mandated power to perform the outreach. If the outreach fails, they try again.

For a group whose primary goal is to improve relations between the black community and the police, provocatively icing the police out of a highly-productive annual outreach event for an overlapping minority group just seems to me to be the definition of counter-productive.

 

[lenovox1]

Yeah umm gay police officers can go to the parade.

Gay police officers can take part as regular people just not as a uniformed officer.

Not that the city's response is appropriate on any measure, but that doesn't address what I asked.

Won't some LGBT officers and allies want to show up as officers and representatives of the city's police department?

Pride is about standing up against oppression of Queer folk of all Colour... which you know includes black folk.

The parade? Is the Toronto parade like that? A rally against a cause?

Because most modern Pride Parades are about showing off how inclusive your business or organization is.

 

[norm9]

Read what I wrote again. Gay police are not prohibited from being a part of the parade, they are simply not being given a float like they were in prior years or be in uniform.
.

So they're not prohibited, but can't be in uniform, can't have a float, and shouldn't be seen. Is the theme don't ask don't tell this year?

 

[Sushi Nao]

For a group whose primary goal is to improve relations between the black community and the police, provocatively icing the police out of a highly-productive annual outreach event for an overlapping minority group just seems to me to be the definition of counter-productive.

Highly productive for whom? Overlap is not sufficient. Race relations must be improved, demonstrably.

It really seems in this whole discussion, that the police are considered, gay people are considered, but there's one side's position that appears to be fundamentally and preemptively discounted.

 

[Boylamite]

Highly productive for whom? Overlap is not sufficient. Race relations must be improved, demonstrably.

It really seems in this whole discussion, that the police are considered, gay people are considered, but there's one side's position that appears to be fundamentally and preemptively discounted.

What exactly is the position, specifically in context of the pride parade?

Not the greater issue, I understand and support it, but why start a beef with the parade?

 

[Gotdatmoney]

So they're not prohibited, but can't be in uniform, can't have a float, and shouldn't be seen. Is the theme don't ask don't tell this year?

Is a police uniform the same as a suit or a construction vest? Are the police the same as a corporation? When Black people were complaining about carding to the police did they go "oh, okay lets work together", or did they fucking ignore them as per usual? Whether the police get their stuff in the parade of not (they will because lets be serious, no one is going to side with BLM over the police) is irrelevant to the fact that black Toronto residents have actual legitimate qualms with the police. Everyone will say "this isn't the way", then offer no actual alternative,

 

[Kurtofan]

Seems like it's something catching on, my college LGBTQ group got in trouble for protesting against the police having a float at the pride parade.

 

[Sushi Nao]

What exactly is the position, specifically in context of the pride parade?

Not the greater issue, I understand and support it, but why start a beef with the parade?

Black gay people are harassed due to their race. Outreach to the gay community by the government is admirable, but it is insufficient in the minds of the black people in the community, both gay and straight.

 

[Arkage]

This is especially disappointing when coming out as a gay police officer is probably harder than it is in other occupations. BLM really missing the mark here, and will only feed negative publicity against the movement.

 

[lenovox1]

Highly productive for whom? Overlap is not sufficient. Race relations must be improved, demonstrably.

It really seems in this whole discussion, that the police are considered, gay people are considered, but there's one side's position that appears to be fundamentally and preemptively discounted.

Only if the Toronto Pride committee is icing out blacklivesmatter or is icing out LGBT groups of color, which it may have in the past and was likely the impetus for the literal roadblock last year. Otherwise, whose position is being discounted?

 

[norm9]

Is a police uniform the same as a suit or a construction vest? Are the police the same as a corporation? When Black people were complaining about carding to the police did they go "oh, okay lets work together", or did they fucking ignore them as per usual?

So it's a fuck you, now you know how it feels type of action? That's not the spirit of Pride