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[AV]

Because they are ran by chimps.

Brother if you don't want an actual conversation, save me the time.

 

[onQ123]

Lol but Crash still belongs to Activision/ Microsoft

 

[Banjo64]

Halo was a multi-billion-dollar franchise with Halo 3 having up to that point in 2007 broken several sales records in the days and weeks after release...and yet Bungie wanted to move on from the IP. That is definitely not a trivial "shits and giggles" matter and it put both parties at odds. Microsoft valued the Halo IP and Bungie valued their creative decision making which made the agreement to separate easy when all was said and done. Bungie has yet to create any game that lives up to the Halo 1-REACH tsunami that took over the video game world between 2001 and 2011.

You’re right, it was a sound decision by Microsoft.

They couldn’t have retained Bungie and allowed them creative freedoms whilst setting up 343 to manage Halo.

They had to let them go. What can you do I suppose.

 

[Banjo64]

Brother if you don't want an actual conversation, save me the time.

You are the one trying to say that MS made a good call in letting Bungie go independent (even though the long term success of Destiny and absolute decline of Halo clearly proves otherwise) and now Toys For Bob.

Microsoft are always right, I get it

 

[Salty Popsicle]

You’re right, it was a sound decision by Microsoft.

They couldn’t have retained Bungie and allowed them creative freedoms whilst setting up 343 to manage Halo.

They had to let them go. What can you do I suppose.

Bungie owned the Halo IP. They were not going to sell the IP to Microsoft unless it included making Bungie independent. Doesn't make sense to keep a studio in-house who has lost passion for the IP.

 

[Banjo64]

Bungie owned the Halo IP. They were not going to sell the IP to Microsoft unless it included making Bungie independent. Doesn't make sense to keep a studio in-house who has lost passion for the IP.

The answer is: allow your creatives creative freedom. It’s not hard but it was lost on Microsoft.

Microsoft should have just said ‘fine, make Destiny’.

With hindsight on our side does anyone actually think otherwise?

 

[AV]

You are the one trying to say that MS made a good call in letting Bungie go independent (even though the long term success of Destiny and absolute decline of Halo clearly proves otherwise) and now Toys For Bob.

Microsoft are always right, I get it

Point me to the part where I said it was ultimately a good idea. Neither you, I nor MS knew how that was going to go at the time, they made a business call as they're doing now and I've never said this TFB thing is going to work out best for them either - they just think it is.

Stop spitting your dummy out making sweeping sarcastic statements, you look like a baby. Give us an actual thought that isn't just "MS stupid".

 

[Salty Popsicle]

You are the one trying to say that MS made a good call in letting Bungie go independent (even though the long term success of Destiny and absolute decline of Halo clearly proves otherwise) and now Toys For Bob.

Microsoft are always right, I get it

If Destiny was as successful as you seem to believe, there would be no way in hell Activision would let them leave with the IP. And let's not pretend like Destiny 1 or 2 has the same critical acclaim that the original Halo trilogy had.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

The answer is: allow your creatives creative freedom. It’s not hard but it was lost on Microsoft.

Microsoft should have just said ‘fine, make Destiny’.

With hindsight on our side does anyone actually think otherwise?

Destiny wouldn't have worked as an exclusive game on any one platform. It's financial success in the early years was due to it being a good GAAS game on ALL platforms. Even now that isn't enough to keep them afloat without a financial backer like Activision or Sony.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I half expect to see a lot of "Sony acquire this studio!!1" tweets and posts on forums, but you know what?
I think they ought to be acquired by Nintendo. Toys for Bob proved itself to be capable to producing (and exceeding) Nintendo visual quality with Crash 4 & Spyro Trilogy. With Nintendo's name, money, backing & IP to work with they could really shine.

Maybe we should just hope they don't get acquired by anyone going forward and can stabilize & grow as an independent 3P? Because clearly, these M&As are mostly resulting in either massive cuts, barely any additional new games (or cancelled games), and layoffs.

At least those of studios seem to go over alright, although it depends a lot on who's buying them. And buying publishers or studios just to get their IP and then spin them off seems like a particular type of icky to me.

Yeah, potentially - the wording is interesting. New "stories, characters and gameplay experiences" rather than "worlds" or, explicitly, IPs/franchises. Can see them wanting to do some of their own stuff, but as far as I'm concerned Spyro 4 is a lock. Exploring a partnership with MS and they close the statement with "keep your horns on". I would bet they were already working on Spyro 4 before they got relegated to a COD studio and they desperately want to finish it up.

Will be interesting to see the degree of Microsoft's involvement with Spyro 4. Is it just going to be them loaning TFB the IP rights or will they have team members from Rare or Double Fine or whoever help with co-development? Is it going to be a Day 1 Game Pass type of game or won't it? Will it release on other platforms (considering Spyro's not a major IP these days and it'd do well on platforms like Nintendo & PlayStation, I imagine it will).

I'm a bit more interested in what their other projects would be though, personally. Was never a massive Spyro fan, probably because I had both a PS1 & N64 as a kid so I never felt like I "missed out" on 3D platformers like SM64.

Immensely risky too when there really are only a few massive IPs

Any falloff of brand value significantly erodes their value

Microsoft might think the talent they do retain are flexible enough to work with the core IP they own, and they probably don't consider those like Spyro or Crash 'core IP', even if they have a lot of nostalgia for some of us. They don't need TFB as a support studio on COD, either, because they can just pull team members from iD Software for example, to act as support on COD games when they aren't working on a new DOOM or Wolfenstein.

It's a gamble for sure but, it's their money. They can do as they feel like.

 

[WhiteWaterM00se]

MS needs to hire them for Banjo, and if not…Toys for Bob won’t have any trouble finding work.

Sony picks up the phone…”hello, would Toys for Bob Be interested in remaking Jak & Dexter, or Sly Cooper?”

Nintendo picks up the phone… “Hello, would Toys for Bob be interested in remaking StarFox Adventures, DK Country trilogy Or Luigi Mansion 1?”

 

[Iced Arcade]

MS own Banjo-Kazooie, Spyro, Crash and Conker. The 4 biggest 3D platform mascots in gaming outside of Nintendo IP.

And they’ve let Toys For Bob go.

Honestly, Microsoft are astoundingly bad at gaming. You can’t imagine worse decisions, but they continue to outdo themselves.

Good for Toys For Bob to be honest. Hopefully they continue to make great games.

yup, absolutely mind-blowing

 

[Banjo64]

If Destiny was as successful as you seem to believe, there would be no way in hell Activision would let them leave with the IP.

There’s plenty of info out there re its success. Just a cursory Google search tells me the first game made more than $500m in its first week.

Feel free to live in denial.

And let's not pretend like Destiny 1 or 2 has the same critical acclaim that the original Halo trilogy had.

I think companies measure success in revenue not critical success.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

When was that pattern established?

Mike Brow & co leaving Playground Games (and no partnership between MS and their new studio, AFAIK). Shinji Mikami leaving Tango Gameworks (despite not retiring like some were trying to say). Multiple people from The Initiative including Drew Murray.

They haven't made a Crash or Spyro game in a while now. Last one was Crash 4 in 2020. More likely they're not keen on working as a COD support studio and want to be in control of their own fate after the recent round of layoffs.

I agree with that, it's the most likely scenario. But I guess it also shows they were afraid of getting shut down by Microsoft sometime soon enough, and negotiated a release to avoid that scenario.

It just happens to also incidentally give Microsoft a bit of good PR amid the layoff news from other companies in gaming this week. No real shame in that, it's a side benefit of the process and the timing of things. Hopefully other companies considering shutting down clearly solid-talent studios going forward consider similar releases so those studios go independent, and can still have some financial support in the short/medium term with a partnership to see where things go from there for them.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

There’s plenty of info out there re its success. Just a cursory Google search tells me the first game made more than $500m in its first week.

Feel free to live in denial.


I think companies measure success in revenue not critical success.

You explicitly mentioned "long term success" in our conversation about Destiny. A cursory Google search tells me that last year was as especially awful time at Bungie...

Mass layoffs at Bungie Studios after Destiny 2 reportedly fails to meet revenue projections

Stop throwing out words like "denial" when you are living here buddy...

 

[nikolino840]

The specific obligation of COD is for consoles. The obligation for the different cloud services extends to all games produced by ABK Studios.

That is, MS is only obligated to release COD on PS and Nintendo consoles for 10 years. It is not obligatory for the rest of the ABK games.

But what cloud gaming? MS is obliged to launch all ABK games on the different services competing with Xcloud (GForceNow, Bosteroid, etc...). The exploitation rights (except for the US) are held by Ubisoft for the next 15 years.

Well no one can say that microsoft could gain too much power in the cloud market then..so is a good thing?

 

[Banjo64]

You explicitly mentioned "long term success" in our conversation about Destiny. A cursory Google search tells me that last year was as especially awful time at Bungie...

Mass layoffs at Bungie Studios after Destiny 2 reportedly fails to meet revenue projections

Stop throwing out words like "denial" when you are living here buddy...

Long term success - presents 1 year as evidence.

The game has sold millions of expansions regularly, over the vast majority of the franchises life span.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Long term success - presents 1 year as evidence.

The game has sold millions of expansions regularly, over the vast majority of the franchises life span.

You're the one who gave me week one sales of Destiny 1 to prove your point about "long-term success" LMAO. Keep trying

 

[cash_longfellow]

Waitttt a second…going independent but partnering with Microsoft? Something doesn’t add up here lol

 

[GHG]

Penny's Big Breakaway has proven that Neogaf has zero interest in cute platformers.
Good Luck to them.

You say that as if it's supposed to be a good game.

Spoiler

It's not, and by all accounts it's bang average at best. So why were people supposed to care again?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

You're the one who gave me week one sales of Destiny 1 to prove your point about "long-term success" LMAO. Keep trying

Destiny is at it's lowest point and it's still miles ahead of halo lmao

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Destiny is at it's lowest point and it's still miles ahead of halo lmao

Halo has been around for over 20 years now. Let's see where Destiny is 10 years from now.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Halo has been around for over 20 years now. Let's see where Destiny is 10 years from now.

Probably still ahead of halo

 

[AV]

Waitttt a second…going independent but partnering with Microsoft? Something doesn’t add up here lol

Timed exclusivity or game pass deals on licences they own are two options.

 

[cash_longfellow]

Timed exclusivity or game pass deals on licences they own are two options.

I know, I’m just playing any way. Truthfully I’m glad they don’t have to deal with Acti now, and believe they deserve much better because they are a great studio. Happy to see them staying above water!

 

[Banjo64]

You're the one who gave me week one sales of Destiny 1 to prove your point about "long-term success" LMAO. Keep trying

No, I said there’s plenty of info out there and that a quick cursory Google search told me the first weeks sales figures. I know reading is hard though.

NeoGAF is hopefully the only place where you can read about how Microsoft were right to let Bungie go and that Destiny is not a success (whilst Halo Infinite, the latest game in a long line of failures, cost $500m to make and has a weekly peak player count of about 5).

Destiny is more successful than any game that Microsoft have launched themselves since Bungie’s Halo. Only an idiot would argue otherwise.

 

[splattered]

So does this mean Toys for Bob is going to be backed by Microsoft to make new Crash Spyro Conker etc games for Playstation and Switch now?

 

[StueyDuck]

I'm kind of happy they, and many rumored studios are tryna break off and be a single entity again.

I worry how much damage was done but if we have all these consolidated studios going independent again and making stuff they are passionate about then gaming might just get the shot in the arm it desperately needs.

Obviously its waaaay easier said than done. But imagine more studios being able to do their own things again and budgeted as such. Toys for Bob, vicarious visions, does neversoft still exist?

That's a gaming future I'm keen on

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Destiny is more successful than any game that Microsoft have launched themselves since Bungie’s Halo. Only an idiot would argue otherwise.

A multi-platform GAAS game franchise generates more revenue than a FPS franchise that was traditionally only available on one console. News at 11.

 

[BoxFresh123]

Just because Beyonce comes up when you search for independent gifs.

All the best to them though.

 

[johnjohn]

Probably still ahead of halo

Destiny is already pretty much dead, and it's going to take Bungie down with it.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Destiny is already pretty much dead, and it's going to take Bungie down with it.

We all have a bit of retard in us

 

[Salty Popsicle]

We all have a bit of retard in us

In your case unfortunately, it's plain for the world to see.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

In your case unfortunately, it's plain for the world to see.

And yours shines like the sun

 

[Luigi Mario]

If Destiny was as successful as you seem to believe, there would be no way in hell Activision would let them leave with the IP. And let's not pretend like Destiny 1 or 2 has the same critical acclaim that the original Halo trilogy had.

I don't think it is particularly clever to bring up the original Halo trilogy, which concluded in 2007, to make point about the current state of the Halo franchise in 2024.
Maybe only to show how insignificant it has become, but neither Banjo64 or anybody else in this thread argued that Destiny was ever as big as peak Halo.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

And yours shines like the sun

Come get your vitamin D

 

[Salty Popsicle]

I don't think it is particularly clever to bring up the original Halo trilogy, which concluded in 2007, to make point about the current state of the Halo franchise in 2024.
Maybe only to show how insignificant it has become, but neither Banjo64 or anybody else in this thread argued that Destiny was ever as big as peak Halo.

You're right, they are arguing that Destiny is much bigger than Halo ever was.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

You're right, they are arguing that Destiny is much bigger than Halo ever was.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

So does this mean Toys for Bob is going to be backed by Microsoft to make new Crash Spyro Conker etc games for Playstation and Switch now?

Very much likely, yes. Though I doubt Conker's getting touched by TFB.

I'm kind of happy they, and many rumored studios are tryna break off and be a single entity again.

I worry how much damage was done but if we have all these consolidated studios going independent again and making stuff they are passionate about then gaming might just get the shot in the arm it desperately needs.

Obviously its waaaay easier said than done. But imagine more studios being able to do their own things again and budgeted as such. Toys for Bob, vicarious visions, does neversoft still exist?

That's a gaming future I'm keen on

I dunno about that. It might establish a pattern where these big companies acquire studios & pubs to get the IP and tech patents they own, then release the talent, who don't have any of those IP with them and have to make new ones. They make new ones that become mega-popular, the same companies that bought them before buy them again, absorb the IP & patent rights, then shed the talent to go independent again. Rinse and repeat.

That sounds like it would become abusive in some way and questionable in terms of it being a fair market practice or not.

 

[StueyDuck]

Very much likely, yes. Though I doubt Conker's getting touched by TFB.



I dunno about that. It might establish a pattern where these big companies acquire studios & pubs to get the IP and tech patents they own, then release the talent, who don't have any of those IP with them and have to make new ones. They make new ones that become mega-popular, the same companies that bought them before buy them again, absorb the IP & patent rights, then shed the talent to go independent again. Rinse and repeat.

That sounds like it would become abusive in some way and questionable in terms of it being a fair market practice or not.

I mean we kind of have a bit of that going on already, if you think about what embracer own.

But I don't really mean it In that sense. More that it would be nice to go back to gaming where publishers would publish games and studios were "independent" but basically worked with their friends at publishing houses.

So in otherwords I'd like to see the return of actual publishers again.

Publishers having to search the industry to publish the next great title and studios looking for publishing and developing their passion projects

 

[Banjo64]

A multi-platform GAAS game franchise generates more revenue than a FPS franchise that was traditionally only available on one console. News at 11.

Do you even have an argument? It just seems to be shifting all over the place. I thought you were originally saying Destiny was not a success, now you are saying it is. Cool I guess, thanks for agreeing with me.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Do you even have an argument? It just seems to be shifting all over the place. I thought you were originally saying Destiny was not a success, now you are saying it is. Cool I guess, thanks for agreeing with me.

You seem to equate revenue with success. I hope you understand that bigger revenue does not necessarily correlate to bigger profits.

 

[Banjo64]

You seem to equate revenue with success. I hope you understand that bigger revenue does not necessarily correlate to bigger profits.

Thanks for the lesson. At least we’re moving beyond engagement on GAF.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

You seem to equate revenue with success. I hope you understand that bigger revenue does not necessarily correlate to bigger profits.

Good lord lmao

 

[Ozriel]

Waitttt a second…going independent but partnering with Microsoft? Something doesn’t add up here lol

You never heard of Insomniac and Bluepoint before?

So does this mean Toys for Bob is going to be backed by Microsoft to make new Crash Spyro Conker etc games for Playstation and Switch now?

facepalm

 

[IFireflyl]

You seem to equate revenue with success. I hope you understand that bigger revenue does not necessarily correlate to bigger profits.

Why don't you explain how you're defining "success"? That would be helpful for all parties involved.

 

[Chuck Berry]

Would love to see THQ Nordic break through Embracer's clutches next

Break on through and give me my proper Darksiders 4

 

[Salty Popsicle]

Why don't you explain how you're defining "success"? That would be helpful for all parties involved.

Cultural impact and legacy.

 

[IFireflyl]

Cultural impact and legacy.

You can't define "success" with something that is immeasurable. What a dumbass comment.

 

[Salty Popsicle]

You can't define "success" with something that is immeasurable. What a dumbass comment.

Yes you can. And I just did.