infinitys_7th
Member
What gets me is that this is all the old Tea Party chain-email Obama shit regurgitated as some attempt at organized revenge.
Trump "Owned by Russia for 30 years" says his "Art of Deal" Ghostwriter
- Thread starter luigimario
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What gets me is that this is all the old Tea Party chain-email Obama shit regurgitated as some attempt at organized revenge.
cryptoadam
Banned
I fully expect Mueller to drag this out till the next election. And then he will probably try to haphazardly throw something together before Trump has a chance to win a second term.
I have to say this is not a good look. Mueller with all his resoucres and money can't crack the trail on Trumps team. I guess Trump must of had some of the best of the best and amazing geniuses working to cover his tracks so that a 20+ million dollar investigation and all that can come up is some Russians purchased a bunch of FB adds and some bots.
I have to say this is not a good look. Mueller with all his resoucres and money can't crack the trail on Trumps team. I guess Trump must of had some of the best of the best and amazing geniuses working to cover his tracks so that a 20+ million dollar investigation and all that can come up is some Russians purchased a bunch of FB adds and some bots.
infinitys_7th
Member
You got this from inquistr op?
How about a real news source , inquistr =
Imagine the OP's reaction if someone posted a story from Infowars about Hillary facing indictment for Pizzagate and conspiracy to turn frogs gay.
If I was forced to jump to conclusions, and just based on everything that I've seen thus far and how he's handled his own transitions , I would consider his presidency to be more of a happy accident especially for Russia.
Even if they encouraged him to run I doubt he or himself ever believed he would do more than disrupt elections and sow dissent. Because of his nature, once he saw he was winning primaries Trump competitive nature kicked in. I believe at some point he sought or entertained Russia help because his personal seems to be a win by any means mentality. I think he personally didn't have the experience to know where or how to go about the process under the radar and that many of his campaign fallouts occurred from more seasoned veterans telling him not to get wrapped up too far in various unsavory connections, which again based on his tendency to follow instincts would have caused a rift with those more experienced.
Anyway, in any communication he may have had directly with other foriegn agents . Particular if any occurred with Russia. It would have merely coincided with what Russia was already doing and Trump, likely at most was kept aware of general content and timing but likely Attempted to not take possession of stolen information, and preferred summaries and "leaks".
Ultimately I think that it will show his staff had improper contacts with foriegn agents. Some minor amateur crimes. No coordinated collusion, but a president who is willing to resort to cheap and dirty means and back channel information avenues to take down opponents.
Chiggs
Gold Member
The left's version of the Tea Party is shaping up to be just as awful as the right's. Hooray for fringe lunacy politics. Because more division and animosity will only make things better, and ensure American power in the 21st Century.
He's put out exactly none because he's a smart man and a professional. I really don't think I have to fully explain what I was getting at, but at the risk of being misinterpreted....
We've heard this for the past year or more from Trump's opponents and certain media outlets:
"Trump is the next Hitler! Trump is the Kremlin's candidate! Trump is committing high treason!"
So...on that day when Mueller shows his cards, his findings (the facts) will need to match the rhetoric for anyone in Trump's base to care, along with the GOP that tenuously back him. Now, I know there's a popular sentiment out there that says nobody in Cult 45 could be persuaded that their glorious leader is a bad man. I personally think that's complete bullshit. If Mueller can definitively show that Putin has been the great puppeteer controlling Trump, and that Trump has committed treason by allowing an enemy of the U.S. to dictate terms and policies, it's the end of Trump as we know it.
But again, the facts will need to match the rhetoric, which, frankly, is unfair to Mueller. But this is what happens when you cry wolf over EVERYTHING. TRUMP. DOES. You create fatigue. You make it so people start rolling their eyes. I mean, it's the reason why so many people on the right think Hillary Clinton is some sort of evil genius that goes around ordering hits on lawyers and DNC personnel. It's because the nuttier elements of the GOP spent most of the 90s creating elaborate conspiracy theories about her and her husband.
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Cauliflower of Love
Banned
So you're intentionally conflating opinion with the objective of the investigation?
Death Dealer
Member
There is nothing credible about it. A German magazine quoted a so called Czech intelligence file that says Trump was pressured to run in 1996 ? And that adds credibility to the conspiracy theory that Trump is a secret Russian agent ? It sounds like a desperate fantasy of his political opponents.
In 1987, Richard Nixon told Trump he should run for president. There is a Trump-Oprah interview from the 80's where he talks about running for office.
If any one person convinced Trump he should run for president, it was Roger Stone.
Chiggs
Gold Member
It looks as if I may have touched a nerve with you. I think my post speaks for itself, and if that's your interpretation of what I'm trying to do, then I won't attempt to alter your opinion, but do feel compelled to mention this: one sentence responses with a distinct "so you're just a..." tone are more lazy than cutting.
luigimario
Banned
Personal attacks, the old rightwing strategy. Good job mate.
Instead of responding emotionally with "REEEEEEEEEEEE GODEMPORER REEEEEEEEEEE!" try to engage honestly and maturely in the discussion because you give your side a bad look.
Senate intelligence committee concluded Russia meddled in favour of Trump over Clinton.
Trump praising Vladimir Putin's leadership, defending him from allegations of murdering his political opponents.
Calling for a realignment of US strategy in Syria and Ukraine.
Believing Putin over his own intelligence agencies.
Numerous meetings between his campaign members Russian intelligence, which they lied about.
Not being concerned about Russia's attack on US democracy.
Not once having criticised Putin on Twitter when he attacks literally everyone else including gold star families and disabled people.
Multiple members of the campaign have made plea deals
12 indictments
Refusal to add new sanctions to Russia
There's alot more but this all I could think of at the top of my head. Let's see you address atleast some of these points.....
Cauliflower of Love
Banned
You acknowledged that there is no rhetoric coming out of the investigation:
And then you followed it up with opinions.
You are trying to conflate opinions with the investigation.
So why are you saying almost as a threat that "the rhetoric better match the findings" as if they are related ?
dolabla
Member
I respect your opinion.
I just think to be able to pull something off like colluding with Russians (and 30 years? That's insane, lol) to steal an election is just one too much given the technology that currently exists in this country. To me, it's more akin to a wild conspiracy theory rather than reality.
Chiggs
Gold Member
Almost as a threat? I am sure Mueller is quaking in his boots that someone on NeoGAF posted an opinion.
Also, I spelled out EXACTLY why the facts need to match the rhetoric.
Chiggs said:
The reason is so obvious that I'm stunned I have to repeat it: all smoke but no fire indictments aren't going to cut it, and will do nothing to persuade Trump's base or the GOP to do anything, or take any action. Furthermore, if the findings are all smoke but no fire, we're in a situation where the origins of the investigation will be looked at suspiciously (already under scrutiny), and will only serve to embolden Trump.
So once again: if it's collusion/treason that's being sought, which is probably the most serious charge that can be directed at a President, then, yes--the facts will need to support the rhetoric, whether it's fair to Mueller or not (it's not).
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Enosh
Member
given recent allegations of bias against him in the FBI, I completely understand why he wouldn't trust the people that tried to rig the election against him
Cauliflower of Love
Banned
What recent allegations?
luigimario
Banned
So he would trust Putin over them? And they tried to rig the election against him? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didnt the FBI come out few days before the election and told everyone that they were going to open up another investigation against Clinton?
Where are you getting that the FBI was/is biased against him? And they tried to rig the election against him?
TheShadowLord
Member
Then Trump should have no problem with Mueller's investigation and let him do his job. Or instead of sidestepping it, he should see it as a matter of importance and do everything he can to help. I'm not saying your wrong, as there is a possibility that Trump had nothing to do it(as much as he did had something do about it). But he is the president and he should let it continue if he believes he is innocent in all of this.
dolabla
Member
The comments by Strzok speak for themselves. He was over the Russia probe. He clearly hates Trump. Even went to go as far as saying he would stop him. If that doesn't scream bias, then I don't what does.
How could Trump trust someone like that? How could anybody trust someone like that if they said some of those things about you? Would you put your faith in Strzok if you were going to a jury trial, but you knew he had said those things about you?
NATO was formed to keep back, resist, stop, defend from, etcetc Russia/Soviets/Communism. With Trump demanding more NATO countries to invest more in their military.... how is that "cuddling up to Putin". To me it looks like its a threat against Russia, more Cold War investing and sabre rattling.
And why are we beliving in Mueller?, the guy who testified to Congress that WMDs were in Iraq which led to us invading Iraq killing thousands blah blah blah you all know the story.
None of this makes sense logically.
And why are we beliving in Mueller?, the guy who testified to Congress that WMDs were in Iraq which led to us invading Iraq killing thousands blah blah blah you all know the story.
None of this makes sense logically.
cryptoadam
Banned
selective outrage indeed....
Seems like American's are always going after their politicians. Is it just that your system is that corrupt? Better get this chart ready for the next president as it seems to be a reoccurring theme. And seems like most of these investigations take 4+ years which lines up with my timeline that the investigation will be dragged out till the next election and then everything will be put together quickly to try and prevent Trump from running a second time.
Is Mueller any closer to linking Russians to colluding with Trump or his team? Is there anything outside of a bunch of Russian's FB ads and bots? Where is this investigation going because it seems like its all over the place and Mueller is no where closer to linking Trump and Russia.
luigimario
Banned
Didn't know the FBI consisted of one guy. And he clearly responded to that, saying in its context, it was made after Trump attacked war heroes and their families. And by "we" he was talking about the american people. But anyway, there's still no evidence of the FBI as a whole having any bias against him. And even if it did, that is still no reason to trust Putin.
Panda1
Banned
if you dont know that why are you trolling in this thread?
Kittehkraken
Member
"definitely adds credibility to the idea"
A German tabloid (Bild) is a source of credible news now?
A German tabloid (Bild) is a source of credible news now?
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Panda1
Banned
Trump HAS been cleared. Obama had 2 undercover agents in his team, was bugged and a presidential nominee - how fucking dense do you think your government is and at the same time Trump so stupid to collude with Russia, - have less money and won less votes!
What? Mueller had to proven that Russian were even involved in the first place. Those are allegations that's have been fought for the past year, that there was Russian involvement. One half of the equation has been solved/proven and people are still claiming there's been no progress... ok...
cryptoadam
Banned
So he isn't any closer to linking Russia with Trump and his team? If in 2 years from now all Mueller has is Russians wanted Trump to win and sent out some FB ads and bots its going to look really bad on Mueller. But lets wait on that other half of the equation. I bet it will manage to find a way to come out right around November 2020...
One thing this might shed some light on is that American's need to protect their elections better. I know American's are used to interfering with everyone elses elections across the globe, so they should take what the learned from that to combat other countries trying to do the same in kind.
infinitys_7th
Member
B-b-b-but Mueller's a professional! He wears a suit and shit! He would NEVER lie to us!
Bryank75
Banned
Infowars thread eh!? Hmmmm
Super Mario
Banned
Meanwhile, Hillary took tens of millions from other countries through her foundation. Even her emails showed a link in her pay for play model.
Yet, the country of Russia, not even just Putin himself, activated secret agent Trump to win the presidency through Facebook bots and ads. They sent in a brash billionaire who told the country essentially that the deep state is screwing us and immigration is a problem. What was the gain for Russia here?
If nothing turns of this investigation, there needs to be severe consequences to the Liberal left. I'm beyond tired of "here is what is happening that is against our agenda, it is so clear" then it turns out to be nothing. Casually swept under the rug, then the next manufactured outrage appears.
infinitys_7th
Member
Selectively leaking information, as we all remember from the "Mueller Mondays" a few months ago.
He has run one of the most butthurt politically motivated "investigations" since the Lewinski shit. And, with the leaks, one of the least professional as well.
It's not like they ever present new information either - this "twelve Russians" info has been known for months, as indicated by that flawed plot of "investigation speed" which is months old It just gets slightly tweaked and rereleased over and over again.
infinitys_7th
Member
I'm kind of serious about it. It's hit and miss depending on the "news" they cover and the guests (and the hosts - it has to be Jones, because the beard guy and Watson are total bores), but the show is absolutely hilarious when it hits. I swear it's some Kaufman-esque 24-hour ops.
Borscht is good doe.
Well it also depends on what you definition of collusion is. Trump's been doing business with Russians oligarchs for decades as business partners. Like I said it wouldn't be out of character for him to call in a favor or to have some gray areas of mixing politics and business. It's basically my stance is that Trump may have not done anything explicitly illegal or at worse did some very very very ethical questionable and possible minor crimes. That's just how he does business. Making some grand Manchurian candidate scheme is a bit absurd and alarmist.
In theory he shouldn't but based on what I think, there's probably a lot of gray area and back alley communications and deals that may be very ethically questionable for a President and his administration to engage in. Likely nothing that would put him in jail, but definitely not a good look if it came to light.
And that's why this is a problem. Trump may in fact be relatively innocent of committing very specific illegal actions, but he may have done enough shady crap to warrant trying to keep it off the radar. If Trump sat down for an interview, his natural tendency to lie would almost certainly kick in and he would end up in a perjury trap. Basically, for the sake of hiding his shady dealings and keeping himself from actually committing a crime such as perjury it's best for him to avoid an interview. Like I said, I imagine this is kind of a catch-22. He and his administration were likely involved in crap they shouldn't have, too inexperienced in this arena to properly cover it up, and now worried it could get out even if it was only ethically questionable rather than illegal.
infinitys_7th
Member
She wasn't Secretary of State then.
Gander
Banned
The information he was handing over was
cryptoadam
Banned
Dont forget that Trumps team are so smart and savvy that they were able to cover their tracks so well that Mueller and all his resources can't find anything or flip anyone.
On one hand Trump is an idiot who can't tweet straight, but on the other hand is a master mind genius that has found a way to hide his Manchurian candidate status from the US government.
I am not from the USA and am neither republican or democrat so I have no skin in this game. If Mueller pulls out his smoking gun then I will gladly eat my words. But I predict he will continue to stall stall stall until November 2020 and then all of a sudden tons of happenstance and circumstantial stuff will get "leaked".
infinitys_7th
Member
Russian spent <$20,000 on Facebook ads. Saudi Arabia donated millions to Hillary. Hillary and Trump spent billions on the election.
Clearly the Russians spending less than the average county mayoral candidate shifted the election. Especially when a good chunk of that money promoted the Democrats and leftist groups as well.
infinitys_7th
Member
So Mueller is a partisan and idiot in addition to a liar?
Rs are almost certainly holding the Senate, and more than likely will hold the house. The economy is doing too good and Trump is still reasonably popular overall. I'd hope someone with as much experience as Mueller would be able to see that, but I guess blind partisanship trumps that.
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Bryank75
Banned
Funny that you mentioned Kaufman, he's one of my favorite comedians.
I'd love to see Jones do Mighty Mouse!
Gander
Banned
Trump took it upon himself to attack the honor of the FBI, that has consequences.
infinitys_7th
Member
I really wish he would just fire the thugs on mass, if they all have such a clannish attitude.
And hire who exactly? the American equivalent of the KGB. There's a reason our justice system is supposed to be insulated and its to prevent situations like what you say where an entire justice department is weaponized.
Trump fired all FBI staff.
Installed only Trump loyal staff.
In the meantime how do we protect ourselves of transition duties, etc. Or just leave ourselves open without a critical component of our intelligence and justice department.
infinitys_7th
Member
He is literally defending the FBI acting just like he complains how Trump does - petty, vengeful, unprofessional.
We also got along just fine without the FBI for years, so I'd say we could just go back to that.
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ChuckeRearmed
Member
Internet just made things more effective. Using media is old (and new) tactics. It is a new instrument. Just like ISIS is new kind of terrorism.
By using ads it is not that much of meddling. But again you might see why China invented its great firewall.
Putin, Xi, Macron are basically the only people who you should wary of today.
Looking at Ukraine, Crimea and Syria I presume Obama's and democratic approach was not effective.
Whom exactly? He attacked tons of americans (nobody cares, they are in USA), Assad, Merkel, May...Who are they today? May is out, Assad is nobody, Merkel is also some kind of nobody. Macron in EU is more important than she anyway. She is irrelevant nowadays.
The thing with sanctions is that you can put it as many as possible - in Russia they just increase taxes, get rid of pensions (already done that...twice or thrice) and blame west for that. And people will support it anyway. Sanctions is a tool that should be used when needed.
What 2016 showed is that a lot of stuff during last 10-15 was thrown under the rug. And if Hillary won nobody would do anything at all.
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Panda1
Banned
Actually Hilary spent twice as much as Trump and it was 36k of Facebook ads pmsl.. Yes that's it.
Now please let's not discuss fusion GPS and 8million paid for the fake dossier about trump pissing on a prostitute and definitely not discuss how this led to a fisa warrant to listen on his campaign. That's definitely not collusion.
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