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[Latvian Hitman]

Oh, look another plan from the far right that slashes effective rates across the board, creating massive deficits which will magically be recovered by closing corporate loopholes (which the lobbies will never allow to happen) and hoping the economy grows.

Sounds legit.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

Why make tax cuts at all when you're in massive, uncontrollable debt? It's like being in personal debt then cutting your working hours back to part time because it's easier.

Because public debts is private surplus. Or whatever. Whoever has taken the mantle of being Empty Vessel's avatar since he ascended to another plane can explain better than I.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

The impoverished just keep winning

 

[numble]

Which wouldn't work even if it weren't a one time tax on overseas income.

It's not a one time tax. It eliminates deferral of overseas tax going forward.

 

[demosthenes]

Your job will disappear soon anyways. Tax prep will only become more automated as the years go on.



It's really got nothing to do with H&R Block but that the tax policy is a tool that is often used for political purposes to help grease bills, spur growth, etc.

Actually no. Lobbying on behalf of tax prep software companies is quite large. There are some countries where your tax return is mailed to you completely filled out. You make any needed changes and send it back. This hasn't happened in America b/c the lobbying is so large (http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/27/tu...millions-to-lobby-against-easier-tax-returns/).

While tax prep will continue to get easier with technology, tax planning necessarily won't.

 

[pigeon]

Could someone explain how this would affect someone like me who earns less than $25k and why it's good/bad?

So let's say you earn $25k right now and you're unmarried with no kids.

Your standard deduction is $6,200. Your personal exemption is $3,950. Total is about $10k. Both of these reduce your income tax. So your taxable income is about $15k.

The first $9,075 of income is taxed at 10% -- that's $908. The remaining $5,925 is taxed at 15% -- that's $889. So you'd owe about $1800 in income tax, which was probably already withheld (hence you'd get a check back).

Note that this does NOT include your payroll tax, which is about another 8%.

Under Trump's plan you wouldn't owe that $1800, but you'd still owe payroll tax.

Obviously this is great for most low-income people. The issue is that, if Trump is claiming it's revenue-neutral, I basically call bullshit.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Actually no. Lobbying on behalf of tax prep software companies is quite large. There are some countries where your tax return is mailed to you completely filled out. You make any needed changes and send it back. This hasn't happened in America b/c the lobbying is so large (http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/27/tu...millions-to-lobby-against-easier-tax-returns/).

While tax prep will continue to get easier with technology, tax planning necessarily won't.

Tax planning is a totally different thing. For the majority of Americans, they can already prepare their taxes and e-file for free with a few clicks. The likes of H&R Block and others have very little effect on the direction of American tax policy. No one thinks of these guys when they are deciding how to affect tax rates and to add or remove deductions.

 

[RSTEIN]

A 0% tax rate for those making less than $25,000/$50,000 will make the coming transition to a robotic workforce a bit easier. Good guy Trump.

 

[Clockwork5]

It's completely impossible to put in place these reforms and not incur more deficits or be forced to cut back drastically on the budget.

Also, this isn't "liberal" in any sense of the word, this is red meat republican.



Which wouldn't work even if it weren't a one time tax on overseas income.

As far as eliminating corporate deductions and loopholes, that wouldn't amount to enough for this fuckery.

It's not a one time tax. It will tax all offshore profits moving forward. It is right there in the OP...

 

[Hale-XF11]

If you are single and earn less than $25,000, or married and jointly earn less than $50,000, you will not owe any income tax. That removes nearly 75 million households – over 50% – from the income tax rolls. They get a new one page form to send the IRS saying, “I win,” those who would otherwise owe income taxes will save an average of nearly $1,000 each.

Man, this would actually be a lifesaver for me and my wife. We just barely get by as is and even then, we're never sure that we're gonna have enough money at the end of the year to pay our taxes, despite our best efforts to make sure we have the money. Besides, we need that money and have no savings. I say raise taxes on the rich, so the rest of us who are still trying to recover from the recession have a chance to rebuild our lives.

 

[Raistlin]

Wait, how wouldn't this plan add to our debt and deficit if he's slashing taxes across the board?

I have no idea if the math works out, but the crux of this is a simplification of the tax code.


So while the tax rate may be lowering for business and the rich, deductions and loopholes will be removed / limited. The reality is the rich typically do not pay anywhere near their current supposed tax rate due to such deductions and loopholes.

The other big push is changing how American businesses can defer taxes on cash made/help abroad. So it doesn't absolutely kill them, a one time repatriation of cash can be done at a discounted rate. Afterwards, their earnings abroad will be taxed at the normal specified rate ... increasing taxable income.


On its surface, it doesn't sound crazy.

 

[strikeselect]

"I win" lol

Trump will be so good and so strong as president it'll make your head spin. We're going to be winning so much, we'll get bored of winning. That I will tell you.

 

[kess]

If it wasn't Trump, it would be someone else, income inequality will make penny-ante tax kabuki like this more common. The higher brackets will always bring in more revenue but the votes aren't there.

 

[marrec]

It's not a one time tax. It will tax all offshore profits moving forward at a 10% rate. It is right there in the OP...

We both read it wrong, it's a one time repatriation at 10% and then an end to the deferral.

 

[Raistlin]

It's not a one time tax. It will tax all offshore profits moving forward at a 10% rate. It is right there in the OP...

Maybe I misunderstood the OP, but I don't think that's right?


I took it as that 10% thing is a one time repatriation discount since companies have tons of deferred income held abroad, and charging them the full rate on all of it on one tax return would be crazy.

However, after they repatriate ... all future earnings abroad will be at their standard tax rate, not 10%?

 

[Clockwork5]

Maybe I misunderstood the OP, but I don't think that's right?


I took it as that 10% thing is a one time repatriation discount since companies have tons of deferred income held abroad, and charging them the full rate on all of it on one tax return would be crazy.

However, after they repatriate ... all future earnings abroad will be at their standard tax rate, not 10%?

It ends the indefinite deferal of income tax on overseas assets. That is actually REALLY big.

 

[God Dayumm]

This is a good policy. I don't understand why liberal GAF is against cutting taxes for the poor and middle class, is it because a conservative is proposing these reforms?

It is not any more or less unrealistic than whatever Bernie Sanders is proposing

 

[marrec]

Maybe I misunderstood the OP, but I don't think that's right?


I took it as that 10% thing is a one time repatriation discount since companies have tons of deferred income held abroad, and charging them the full rate on all of it on one tax return would be crazy.

However, after they repatriate ... all future earnings abroad will be at their standard tax rate, not 10%?

The question would then be one of enforcement and closing current and any future loopholes that would surely pop up under this new plan.

Even given all that, I don't see this not adding significantly to the deficit, especially as one of the tentpole tenets in his new plan is "grow the american economy".

 

[Clockwork5]

We both read it wrong, it's a one time repatriation at 10% and then an end to the deferral.

Yeah I made a small stealth edit after re-reading.

 

[Jack Random]

How he wants to pay for tax cuts -

I love how detailed he is about "what you get" and then very, VERY vague about "he he wants to pay" for it.

smells of BS

 

[Future]

Need more info on what loopholes would be closed and how. Considering big rich businesses make it a point to use every loophole available, they would be using their money and power to prevent this from actually happening right?

Also, EVERY damn candidate should be saying they want to close those loopholes. What candidate is relishing in the fact a multi million dollar business can pay lower taxes than a regular worker? This should be the frontline conversation in every debate

Not Israel being our ally (they already are)

Not OMG gay marriage (done deal)

Not women can't have abortions (already legal and has been so for years)

I swear when candidates start talking about bullshit like that I zone out. And I'd bet you this is part of the reason trump is successful. Isn't mindlessly regurgitating the same rhetoric. Even the stupid wall idea is at least something different that sparks new conversation

 

[Orbis Tabula]

This is a good policy. I don't understand why liberal GAF is against cutting taxes for the poor and middle class, is it because a conservative is proposing these reforms?

It is not any more or less unrealistic than whatever Bernie Sanders is proposing

I think it's clear that the reasons liberal GAF is against this plan are not that it cuts taxes on the poor and middle class.

 

[The Lone Courier]

Can't I just call instead.

 

[marrec]

I think it's clear that the reasons liberal GAF is against this plan are not that it cuts taxes on the poor and middle class.

I would like to think that most liberal GAF understand the necessity of taxes across the board as a way to pay for public welfare and services like healthcare and education.

Lets RAISE Taxes across the board and pay for everyone to get a college degree or move to a single payer healthcare system.

 

[Prophet Steve]

This is a good policy. I don't understand why liberal GAF is against cutting taxes for the poor and middle class, is it because a conservative is proposing these reforms?

It is not any more or less unrealistic than whatever Bernie Sanders is proposing

Because he is for cutting taxes for the poor and middle class. And the upper class.

By closing loopholes, which is a daunting task with which it will be really hard to predict how much you will benefit, if anything.

 

[Future]

This is a good policy. I don't understand why liberal GAF is against cutting taxes for the poor and middle class, is it because a conservative is proposing these reforms?

It is not any more or less unrealistic than whatever Bernie Sanders is proposing

It's not that bad of a policy. There just isn't enough info to prove he can do it

Closing loopholes would have to be guaranteed to pay for all the tax cuts. People assume he will fail mostly at doing that, but still push the tax cuts anyway to satisfy republican base

 

[Latvian Hitman]

This is a good policy. I don't understand why liberal GAF is against cutting taxes for the poor and middle class, is it because a conservative is proposing these reforms?

It is not any more or less unrealistic than whatever Bernie Sanders is proposing

Well, for starters, you're leaving a few details out by only mentioning cuts for the poor and middle class. Then there's the whole, "how in the hell do we pay for this?" angle.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

To those saying a tax cut is inherently bad for the country's coffers, remember that people on lower incomes have a higher APC (average propensity to consume). It means that money is more likely to find its way back into the economy, boosting business as people have more money to spend.

I doubt it does balance, but there is at least a little method to the madness.

What are the current odds of Trump being elected with a bigger majority in his second term than his first? I might want to take that bet - neither Sanders nor Clinton are looking strong.

 

[Syrus]

We need a plan like this. Me and my wife make 75-85k a year and two kids and we lose about 30% of our income to taxes and dont get crap back a year.

Wed pay a little bit less with a plan like this.

Tax reform NEEDS to happen especially for middle class. We are drowned in taxes

 

[Raistlin]

It ends the indefinite deferal of income tax on overseas assets. That is actually REALLY big.

I agree ... Was just confused by your quote.

You made it sound like the plan is to tax future earnings at 10%. The OP states that is a one time deal. The future earnings would actually be at a higher rate. Which is nice.

 

[numble]

It ends the indefinite deferal of income tax on overseas assets. That is actually REALLY big.

The issue is that the proposed rate is 15%, and most foreign jurisdictions are above 15%, so companies would be entitled to a foreign tax credit on tax paid overseas.

Example, today, you earn income taxed at 20% in the UK, the 15% margin between 20% and the US rate of 35% should be taxed at in the US, but is deferred. If the US moves to 15%, there is no tax paid in the US because of the 20% foreign tax already paid.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I would like to think that most liberal GAF understand the necessity of taxes across the board as a way to pay for public welfare and services like healthcare and education.

Lets RAISE Taxes across the board and pay for everyone to get a college degree or move to a single payer healthcare system.

.

 

[Jonm1010]

This is a good policy. I don't understand why liberal GAF is against cutting taxes for the poor and middle class, is it because a conservative is proposing these reforms?

It is not any more or less unrealistic than whatever Bernie Sanders is proposing

What is getting cut to balance this out? Or are we just going to run bigger deficits?

Furthermore we still have to address the question "compared to what?" Compare this to alternative ideas of reorganizing government spending and revenue.

 

[Netherscourge]

....so how does Social Security play a role in all this?

 

[Alucrid]

This is a good policy. I don't understand why liberal GAF is against cutting taxes for the poor and middle class, is it because a conservative is proposing these reforms?

It is not any more or less unrealistic than whatever Bernie Sanders is proposing

If there's anything that us liberals hate it's the poor and middle class of course. We would throw them to the wolves if only to spite conservatives

 

[pigeon]

So the big contradiction in this plan is basically about corporate inversions.

One of Trump's leading bullet points is "reduce corporate inversions," which is to say, corporations moving their headquarters overseas for income tax reasons.

He claims that this is because the corporate tax rate is too high, so he'll do this by cutting the corporate tax rate to 15%. Fine.

But Trump says he's going to pay for this plan by removing the deferral on corporate income earned abroad -- meaning that we'll tax foreign income at the same rate as domestic income even if it is never repatriated.

That represents a huge tax INCREASE for every corporation headquartered in the US that has a significant amount of foreign income (which is all of them that we care about in this discussion).

This would almost certainly lead to a huge increase in corporate inversions, which would mean a huge falloff in the American tax base.

....so how does Social Security play a role in all this?

Social Security is not paid for out of income tax, it's paid for out of payroll tax.

Sure, the payroll tax is a tax on your income, but for some reason it doesn't count and nobody talks about it.

This is a really frustrating issue when it comes to understanding the regressive nature of the American tax system.

 

[Marauder Shields]

We need a plan like this. Me and my wife make 75-85k a year and two kids and we lose about 30% of our income to taxes and dont get crap back a year.

Wed pay a little bit less with a plan like this.

Tax reform NEEDS to happen especially for middle class. We are drowned in taxes

Unfortunately your role is to subsidise the poor

 

[Goro Majima]

Congress, the ones who put the loopholes in place, would never, ever support this.

Tax loopholes are one of the few ways that people in Congress can actually bring home a "win" for their district. It sucks but I don't ever see this changing.

 

[Zoe]

We need a plan like this. Me and my wife make 75-85k a year and two kids and we lose about 30% of our income to taxes and dont get crap back a year.

Wed pay a little bit less with a plan like this.

Tax reform NEEDS to happen especially for middle class. We are drowned in taxes

How do you lose 30% to taxes? The highest bracket for you is only 25%, and at 85K your effective rate would be around 15%, at most.

 

[Slayven]

Wait, how wouldn't this plan add to our debt and deficit if he's slashing taxes across the board?

Also, step three is "grow the American economy" :lol

This feels like the Tax Plan of a 16 y/o Mitt Romney.

Still better than Carson's

 

[squall211]

I would like to think that most liberal GAF understand the necessity of taxes across the board as a way to pay for public welfare and services like healthcare and education.

Lets RAISE Taxes across the board and pay for everyone to get a college degree or move to a single payer healthcare system.

Good luck getting the candidate elected who promises to raise taxes on everybody, regardless of how good the motivations are.

 

[GillianSeed79]

This sounds too good to be true as someone who makes sub $25K. Surprisingly liberal too. But reality is screaming this will never happen right? Its a good way to bait poor voters though I guess.

 

[kess]

We need a plan like this. Me and my wife make 75-85k a year and two kids and we lose about 30% of our income to taxes and dont get crap back a year.

Wed pay a little bit less with a plan like this.

Tax reform NEEDS to happen especially for middle class. We are drowned in taxes

If anything, his plan appears to place more of the tax burden on the middle class.

 

[numble]

So the big contradiction in this plan is basically about corporate inversions.

One of Trump's leading bullet points is "reduce corporate inversions," which is to say, corporations moving their headquarters overseas for income tax reasons.

He claims that this is because the corporate tax rate is too high, so he'll do this by cutting the corporate tax rate to 15%. Fine.

But Trump says he's going to pay for this plan by removing the deferral on corporate income earned abroad -- meaning that we'll tax foreign income at the same rate as domestic income even if it is never repatriated.

That represents a huge tax INCREASE for every corporation headquartered in the US that has a significant amount of foreign income (which is all of them that we care about in this discussion).

This would almost certainly lead to a huge increase in corporate inversions, which would mean a huge falloff in the American tax base.

It wouldn't be a huge increase because 15% is low and subpart F rules already (try to) target money stashed in low tax jurisdictions. Most foreign jurisdictions tax above 15%, so they would have no tax burden on repatriation of cash from say, China, Japan, or the EU.

 

[RustyNails]

Bat trump - the savior lower 25% of Americans need, but not the one they deserve

 

[Flying Toaster]

Bat trump - the savior lower 25% of Americans need, but not the one they deserve

My God. Brilliant!

 

[Relentless 757]

I would like to think that most liberal GAF understand the necessity of taxes across the board as a way to pay for public welfare and services like healthcare and education.

Lets RAISE Taxes across the board and pay for everyone to get a college degree or move to a single payer healthcare system.

That's not gonna happen in the foreseeable future, whether from a liberal or conservative. The idea of raising taxes for the middle class and the poor is absolutely something a candidate would get shit on for bringing up.

 

[numble]

How do you lose 30% to taxes? The highest bracket for you is only 25%, and at 85K your effective rate would be around 15%, at most.

Have you included social security and medicare, and state taxes? If self-employed, social security and Medicare is an additional 15.3% tax.

 

[Marty Chinn]

What is getting cut to balance this out? Or are we just going to run bigger deficits?

Furthermore we still have to address the question "compared to what?" Compare this to alternative ideas of reorganizing government spending and revenue.

Well, Trump believes that by cleaninig up the tax code and eliminating loop holes, filling will result in more tax revenue that wouldn't have been paid otherwise. That increase in revenue offsets the tax cuts to the lower and middle class. The bottom line is businesses will be paying for it by not avoiding taxes like they have in the past through loopholes.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

This would make my job at H&R Block almost disappear.

I guess Trump would like that though.

What would you say is the average user of it? I've always just did my own taxes.