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Warhammer 40,000 |OT| In the Grim Darkness of the Community Forum There Is Only War

A

AbsolutBro

Member
ShadowSwordmaster said:
My mistake.
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well, apparently you're partly correct. There was an attempt to temper the Canis Helix's impact on Space Wolf geneseed, but Magnus sabotaged it afraid that they would be able to create successor chapters:

The Canis Helix is at once the Wolves' greatest strength and their fatal flaw; because the Wolves' geneseed is inherently unstable, the Wolves' first (and possibly last) attempt to create Successor Chapters was a complete disaster. When the Legion was divided after the Horus Heresy, a new chapter, the Wolf Brothers, was created. The Wolf Brothers were intended to be the first of many Successor chapters, but quickly succumbed to the Curse of the Wulfen and scattered. Thereafter, the Wolves all but abandoned their hopes of copying themselves.[2a]

In M32, Thar Ariak Hraldir, the Wolf High Priest of the Space Wolves was conducting experiments, which he called "The Tempering" to control the instability of the Canis Helix, and believed he was close to succeeding.[2b] However, his laboratory was destroyed by Magnus the Red during the Battle of the Fang. Magnus, afraid that the Wolves might succeed in proliferating, made a point of destroying the lab and killing Hraldir before moving on to assault the heart of the fortress.[2c]

The Tempering was a controversial project, and was thus a closely guarded secret within the chapter. It had the approval of Wolf Lord Vaer Greyloc and the Great Wolf, Harek Ironhelm[2d], but the venerable Bjorn, when he learned of the project, was outraged and called it a betrayal of their primarch, Leman Russ; had Magnus not destroyed it, Bjorn said, he would have done so himself.[2e] Even a mortal kaerl of the Wolves, Morek Karekborn, thought the prototype Space Marines he saw in Hraldir's lab looked terribly unnatural and lacking in the feral potency he was used to sensing from the Wolves[2f]. Hraldir also admitted that he had not yet been able to stabilize his test subjects to the point where they could survive on their own, though he believed he was getting close.[2b] It is thus uncertain whether the Tempering would have succeeded even if Hraldir had completed his work.

source: Lexicanum
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So they DID experiment on the Canix Helix, but only to try to lessen its effects.
 
S

ShadowSwordmaster

Banned
AbsolutBro said:
well, apparently you're partly correct. There was an attempt to temper the Canis Helix's impact on Space Wolf geneseed, but Magnus sabotaged it afraid that they would be able to create successor chapters:



So they DID experiment on the Canix Helix, but only to try to lessen its effects.
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This was touched on in Battle of the Fang book that came out years ago. I forgot about Magnus's involvement it seems.
 
S

SillyEskimo

Member
I just love the idea of mankind turning a page and advancing forward. A new leader. A new weapon. A new crusade. A purpose. I like that Terra and Mars seem to be united.
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
TheVoidDragon said:
Either way it goes against one of the core themes of the setting about the Imperium (and whole setting) being stagnant, backwards, having little technological process and everything being weighed down by too much bureaucracy and lack of change.
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And things would've stayed that way if they didn't resurrect Guilliman. It's the Great Crusade 2, electric boogaloo time.
TheVoidDragon said:
I don't know the exact details of what the Raven Guard did and can't find it on the Lexicanum, but the previous attempts at someone trying to better the Emperor's work ended up with the Cursed founding.
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The Emperor gave Corax a bit of insight into His Primarch Project and Corax modified his legions geneseed with that knowledge. The resulting legionnaires were larger, faster and stronger AND matured more quickly. Of course Alpha Legion then sabotaged the project with some daemon blood and Corax got all depressed about it and abandoned the whole thing.

The Empror could've made the legionnaires like that, but He didn't.
 
D

Dictator93

Member
Tacitus_ said:
The Empror could've made the legionnaires like that, but He didn't.
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Your capitalisation of He is great. I always love how the fluff does that.

Also, the emperor made a lot of decisions that were somewhat quesitonable / whose true motivations are not exactly always known or obvious. Perhaps there were certain questions of time / resources that prevented the emperor from doing it. Like, the great crusade needed to line up with certain time frames - once cannot forget, it is a plan in the long term that has a lot of contingential happenings.
 
G

GarthVaderUK

Banned
T'au Empire faction focus: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-tau-empire/

The T'au are known currently for their deadly firepower and mobility. They utilise advanced Battlesuits to level blistering volleys of smart missiles and energy weapons into the enemies of the Greater Good. Riptides particularly–often seen in the Riptide Wing formation–are a common sight. The combination of resilience and firepower is a potent cocktail that has left many a pair of smoking boots where once a foe stood. Those that do survive the fusillade to cross the battlefield must withstand the T'au's other shooting phase, otherwise known as Supporting Fire with overwatch. However, those intrepid warriors that make it through all of that often strike the physically weaker T'au down, as melee is certainly not their forte....apart from the stomps dished out by the Stormsurge. That guy certainly never skipped leg day in the gym!

How do T'au play in new Warhammer 40,000? Will they still be the kings of ranged warfare?

Well, let's start with the biggest and baddest suit in their arsenal, the Stormsurge. This beast of a suit currently terrorises the tables and will continue to do so in the new Warhammer 40,000, albeit in different ways. The Stormsurge has amazing firepower with its 10 weapons...and yes, I said 10 weapons, each of which can fire on a different target. The Anchors currently allow the Stormsurge to shoot twice, but in the new edition, this has been changed to a more reasonable (but still powerful!) +1 to hit in the Shooting phase, which works great when paired with one Markerlight hit on a target, allowing any T'au unit to reroll 1's when firing on that unit. BS 3+ and re-rolling 1's with 10 ranged weapons is enough to render most units to smoking ash. The Stormsurge also has the Walking Battleship special rule which allows him to Fall Back from combat and still shoot, while also ignoring the penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons. Stormsurges will remain a solid choice in the new edition.

The XV8 Crisis Battlesuits are next up on the docket. I consider these suits to be the iconic T'au unit, and the firepower from these guys will be very impressive. Very impressive indeed. They each can take 3 weapons (which again, you can fire all of them!). May I recommend a flamer plus two other weapons of your choice? My preference is dual missile pods for that lovely AP-1 and D3 damage per shot! The flamers give you nasty Overwatch defence, as they auto-hit incoming units that charge within their range. They can also be used offensively to clear objectives.

A unit of three Crisis Suits paired up with Markerlights will bring down even large vehicles relatively quickly. Multiple Crisis Suit units also work well together since supporting fire is still around, now called ”For the Greater Good." All those flamer hits from multiple XV8s into a charging unit is extremely powerful and will stop some of the strongest assault units dead in their tracks. Oh, and did I forget to mention they have the Fly keyword? This allows them to Fall Back from combat and still shoot at full effect. Brutal! I am loving how these guys play, and they will be scattered all across the tables in T'au armies.

Lastly, I want to talk about Sniper Drones. When paired with the T'au HQ's such as the Cadre Fireblade they will bring down those pesky support characters with deadly efficiency even if they are hiding behind their infantry. The 48″ range on their Sniper weapons, plus their fast movement, means they will be filling those characters with lead (or plasma?) a lot faster than snipers from other factions. They will be a truly deadly force in your army that will strike fear in opposing characters. Have a look at their datasheet, here:
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40kFFTauSnipers.jpg


Overall, the T'au will play relatively similarly to how they do now. They will have a lot more tricks up their sleeves and you'll see a wider variety of units on the board than you currently do. They'll catch a lot of people off guard with some of their cool special rules and tactical flexibility. Stop resisting and join the Greater Good, today.
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A

AbsolutBro

Member
So drones don't even have to be a part of a unit to save a character, AND the sniper drones at least can pick out characters wherever they go.

Frankly, sounds like Tau went from stupid good to "fuck you and your fucking apostrophe" good.
 
M

Mr_Antimatter

Member
Tacitus_ said:
And things would've stayed that way if they didn't resurrect Guilliman. It's the Great Crusade 2, electric boogaloo time.


The Emperor gave Corax a bit of insight into His Primarch Project and Corax modified his legions geneseed with that knowledge. The resulting legionnaires were larger, faster and stronger AND matured more quickly. Of course Alpha Legion then sabotaged the project with some daemon blood and Corax got all depressed about it and abandoned the whole thing.

The Emperor could've made the legionnaires like that, but He didn't.
Click to expand...

The Emperor seemed to fear that the tech could fall into the wrong hands. The Alpha legion wanted to steal it, but was told to infect it first with the knowledge that it could be reversed later once stolen.

Though, I wonder how long the primus marines can exist before one or more examples of their stock is stolen by the ruinous powers.
 
H

Hyams

Member
AbsolutBro said:
So drones don't even have to be a part of a unit to save a character, AND the sniper drones at least can pick out characters wherever they go.

Frankly, sounds like Tau went from stupid good to "fuck you and your fucking apostrophe" good.
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It looks as though drones (and so probably suits too) have lost the jump-shoot-jump movement they had before.

Plus markerlights appear to have been nerfed (1ML is now re-roll 1s to hit, rather than the +1BS in 7th).

Stormsurge can no longer shoot twice per turn.

Hard to judge from such little information, but you might well find the Tau are more balanced overall than 7th.
 
T

TheVoidDragon

Member
GarthVaderUK said:
T'au Empire faction focus: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-tau-empire/



40kFFTauSnipers.jpg
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It says "you'll see a wider variety of units on the board than you currently do" but what is this actually referring to? Are there Tau Units that don't really get used or is that implying there will be new things? The only thing i can think of that i've not seen many people say they're worth using are Vespid, really.

Also noticed the sniper drones hit on a 5+, is that the same as they are currently? I thought they'd be better than that.
 
G

Geist-

Member
AbsolutBro said:
So drones don't even have to be a part of a unit to save a character, AND the sniper drones at least can pick out characters wherever they go.

Frankly, sounds like Tau went from stupid good to "fuck you and your fucking apostrophe" good.
Click to expand...
What the guy above said, but also all Sniper Rifles can pick out characters, it's not just a Tau thing.
 
H

Hyams

Member
TheVoidDragon said:
It says "you’ll see a wider variety of units on the board than you currently do" but what is this actually referring to? Are there Tau Units that don't really get used or is that implying there will be new things? The only thing i can think of that i've not seen many people say they're worth using are Vespid, really.

Also noticed the sniper drones hit on a 5+, is that the same as they are currently? I thought they'd be better than that.
Click to expand...

Drones are curently BS2, so no change there. Characters can share their BS with drones, getting them up to BS4 - and markerlight support can get any Tau model up to BS10

It remains to be seen if characters can still share their BS with drones, and just what impact markerlights will have
 
G

GarthVaderUK

Banned
The Indomitus Crusade & the Dark Imperium: https://www.warhammer-community.com...00-the-dark-imperium-may16gw-homepage-post-4/

Yesterday, we saw a new type of Space Marine – a Primaris Space Marine – clad in Mk X armour and wielding a deadly bolt rifle. Developed on orders from the Primarch Roboute Guilliman 100 centuries past, Primaris Space Marines have been diligently developed and perfected by the priesthood of Mars during the long intervening millennia.

But to what purpose?

Perhaps an optimist, but never a fool, Guilliman learned from the Horus Heresy, and he foresaw that the forces of Chaos would never relent in their aim to bring the Imperium low. He anticipated that devastating times would once again engulf the galaxy and knew that warriors resilient enough to stand against them would be needed as never before. That time has surely come.
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New40kDarkImpPrimaris.jpg


As the Imperium literally comes apart, and the forces of Chaos run rampant across the galaxy, Guilliman launches his Indomitus Crusade. We've heard that name before, but what does it mean? The new Warhammer 40,000 has this to say on it:

”Roboute Guilliman gathered his new armada. Along with elements of the Adeptus Custodes, a small contingent of the Silent Sisterhood, and a vast war host of Primaris Space Marines from many newly founded Chapters, the Primarch set a winding course. Strike forces from over a dozen pre-existing Chapters of Space Marines, led by the Imperial Fists, joined the fleet. Thus began many new legends as Guilliman travelled to aid beleaguered planets, breaking sieges and sweeping away invaders to bring hope back to the desperate defenders. It was not long before word began to spread, as all those planets that could receive astropathic messages hailed the return of a hero out of myth. Once more, one of the demigods of the past fought for the Imperium of Mankind."

So, that sounds pretty promising for the Imperium.

Well, maybe. The scale of the task is monumental. Following the emergence of the Cicatrix Maledictum, no world in the Imperium has been untouched by war, and there are many thousands of planets that cry out for aid and reinforcement. And that's on the Terran side of the Great Rift!

Travel through the Cicatrix Maledictum is all but impossible, but sporadic contact has been made, through temporary warp-routes, to a few of the best-defended worlds on the other side – and things are not looking good.

On the far side of the galaxy-spanning warp storm, things have quite literally gone to hell.
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New40kDarkImpRift.jpg


There, the light of the Astronomicon is obscured behind a psychic maelstrom of nightmares and the entire region has been dubbed ‘Imperium Nihilus', or the Dark Imperium.

Amongst the besieged Imperial worlds in this Dark Imperium are many Space Marine Chapter Planets, including Baal, home of the Blood Angels. Things were already looking pretty grim for the sons of Sanguinius, with a hive fleet closing in on them, and now it looks even bleaker. Cut off from the light of Terra, the Angels and their Successors stand unbowed against the might of Hive Fleet Leviathan, hoping they can withstand the storm.
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New40kDarkImpBaal.jpg


Yipes, the Blood Angels sound like they are in trouble. This isn't the first time they have triumphed against impossible odds though, can they make it out alive? We'll have to see.

We'll be back tomorrow with more news on rules in the new Warhammer 40,000, as we take a look at teleporting and reserves.
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G

Greigor The Fellhand

Member
The biggest thing I am curious about in regards the Primaris Marines is, Are they clones? Are they humans turned into Primaris Marines and mind wiped/indoctrinated or is it a step process? like first you become a Marine, then in 50-100 years you get another procedure and become a Primaris marine?
 
O

Ohnonono

Member
Really into the cool lore implications for blood angels. That is fun stuff. Also having an area of the Galaxy that is in WORSE shape than the typical 40k universe is hilarious and awesome. Some great stories to tell in peoples personal game/campaigns with crazy cults having to be fought without the help of the Inquisition and stuff.

I also like how they are moving the setting on to something pretty new, but still giving it a huge scope. It is important to me that MY battle conceptually could happen because the universe is huge and stupidly confusing. Somehow they made a "story" you can grab on to much like the Horus Heresy, AND made things even more confusing. I am having fun getting into SW:A as a taste of 40k while I wait for 8th edition.
 
W

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
Super excited for this release. I'm going to use the Primaris marines for my Sons of Horus (with imperial insignia filed off). Those helmets alone are sexy as anything.
 
X

Xis

Member
If I wanted to order some of the Forgeworld black books (like, say, Horus Heresy: Tempest), is my only option to order them from their UK-based website? Prices are only listed in pounds; it seems like each of the books would set me back 74 pounds (almost $100?).

I picked up Betrayal at Calth and would like to read more background stuff and look at pictures, but I am balking at the cost.
 
M

Maledict

Member
I'm wildly confused. Leviathan wasn't anywhere near Baal was it? And wasn't the last main element of Leviathon embroiled in a permanent conflict in the Octavian system? And the Blood Angels are toast, even with successor chapters if they don't have access to standard Imperial support the Tyrande are going to wash over them without noticing...

I do like the idea of a hellsscape region though. I hope they really go to town in the impact of the warp incursions and reality breaking down as well as the tyranids and other fun friends.
 
S

StaffyManasse

Member
Xis said:
If I wanted to order some of the Forgeworld black books (like, say, Horus Heresy: Tempest), is my only option to order them from their UK-based website? Prices are only listed in pounds; it seems like each of the books would set me back 74 pounds (almost $100?).

I picked up Betrayal at Calth and would like to read more background stuff and look at pictures, but I am balking at the cost.
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For Betrayal at Calth background, you could read the Horus Heresy novels The First Heretic and Know No Fear. They are both good reads. And a lot cheaper than Forge World stuff.
 
X

Xis

Member
StaffyManasse said:
For Betrayal at Calth background, you could read the Horus Heresy novels The First Heretic and Know No Fear. They are both good reads.
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I should have mentioned that I do plan on doing this (eventually). I just started reading the HH novels with the Humble Bundle. I finished the third book (Galaxy in Flames) today. I was blown away by how good Abnett's book (Horus Rising) was, much better than I expected. The other two were about as expected.
 
C

cntr

Banned
Maledict said:
I'm wildly confused. Leviathan wasn't anywhere near Baal was it? And wasn't the last main element of Leviathon embroiled in a permanent conflict in the Octavian system?
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Leviathan's composed of multiple branches, and one of them's always been heading towards Baal.
 
C

ChemicalCutthroat

Member
Well this is fun.

I still follow the books and lore with interest, because I've always had a soft spot for 40K, but now i'm thinking of picking up a squad of those new Marines and starting up my own custom Chapter again. Probably nothing super serious, but the more I see them the more I must paint them.
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
Greigor The Fellhand said:
The biggest thing I am curious about in regards the Primaris Marines is, Are they clones? Are they humans turned into Primaris Marines and mind wiped/indoctrinated or is it a step process? like first you become a Marine, then in 50-100 years you get another procedure and become a Primaris marine?
Click to expand...

New geneseed, so I presume they work like old marines in that regard. Add the extra organs to teenagers over a couple of years.

Ohnonono said:
Really into the cool lore implications for blood angels. That is fun stuff. Also having an area of the Galaxy that is in WORSE shape than the typical 40k universe is hilarious and awesome. Some great stories to tell in peoples personal game/campaigns with crazy cults having to be fought without the help of the Inquisition and stuff.
Click to expand...

"You thought that things were going to get better? Haha, no." -GW

I love it.
 
S

ShadowSwordmaster

Banned
Tacitus_ said:
The Emperor depicted in HH books doesn't behave like someone who would pull back their punches on their beloved son. That's probably going.
Ollanius Pius / random terminator / custodes will get locked down as well.
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I wonder how they will deal with Pius since now we know what he truly is now.
 
O

Ohnonono

Member
I hope we get some cool battleplans (or whatever they call them in 40k) from the Dark Imp. with random reality warping. weird random teleporting and stuff. Warp storms driving IG mad. Really fun narrative ground there.
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
ShadowSwordmaster said:
Don't we know who that is now?
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Sanguinor? No. We know that he shows up when the BA are about to get fucked and saves them. And has done stuff only Sanguinius had done before.

Pet theory: with the Saints being confirmed to be warp powered (via the Emperor) and the Legion of the Damned practically being Imperial warp entities (aka daemons), it might be the Emperor sending a fragment of Sanguinius soul to aid them. Like He sends Celestine in the Gathering Storm.
 
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