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[MasterCornholio]

Thank you so much for your manners. Your parents did very well in raising you to be you.

Given what's happened recently I don't think its wrong to discuss what effects gamepass had on Xbox.

You could of had a better title though but that's just my opinion.

 

[Harlock]

When you dont need to sell, you dont need yo make great games.

 

[Jose92]

Given what's happened recently I don't think its wrong to discuss what effects gamepass had on Xbox.

You could of had a better title though but that's just my opinion.

The whole thread is about Xbox as a traditional hardware platform. And how the pivot into a subscription on everything, diverted the focus of Microsoft from actually what makes a platform strong. Which is good games. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, people can argue against mine. But for years now i have been saying GamePass is not sustainable because games are not movies or tv shows. Each game cost millions and in some cases 100s of millions. hence why i said downfall of xbox it is more symbolic to the death of xbox hardware than xbox as a platform.

 

[EarsOfASnake]

Gamespass is the thing that has kept Xbox relevant for me, and only then because I can use it on PC. I think they saw the writing on the wall, knew they couldn't compete on the same footing as Sony/Nintendo and went all in on what they had. Personally the brand itself began the slide into irrelevancy with the Xbox One and not focusing on games plus being underpowered compared to the cheaper PS4, they were all billy big bollocks with the 360 because Sony fucked up and now it was their turn. All that said, I don't have either PS5 or Series X; PC delivers what I need and then my Switch is something different to what they offer.

 

[R3claimer117]

The whole thread is about Xbox as a traditional hardware platform. And how the pivot into a subscription on everything, diverted the focus of Microsoft from actually what makes a platform strong. Which is good games. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, people can argue against mine. But for years now i have been saying GamePass is not sustainable because games are not movies or tv shows. Each game cost millions and in some cases 100s of millions. hence why i said downfall of xbox it is more symbolic to the death of xbox hardware than xbox as a platform.

This would make sense if the subscription was free. Netflix started out this way they spend hundreds of million on content and they’re still having great success. They’ve been done with physical tangible media for how long now? The only difference between that content and this is the interactivity one can say Microsoft stand to make even more money since there are in game micropayments in some of these games as well as extra dlc content that someone on Netflix paying the same or more doesn’t have the option to. The real barometer test to this is once all the abk content is inside gamepass and some of these pop culture IPs Microsoft has finally woken up to and decided to start making will entice more people who normally wouldn’t sub for gamepass.

 

[semiconscious]

This would make sense if the subscription was free. Netflix started out this way they spend hundreds of million on content and they’re still having great success. They’ve been done with physical tangible media for how long now? The only difference between that content and this is the interactivity one can say Microsoft stand to make even more money since there are in game micropayments in some of these games as well as extra dlc content that someone on Netflix paying the same or more doesn’t have the option to. The real barometer test to this is once all the abk content is inside gamepass and some of these pop culture IPs Microsoft has finally woken up to and decided to start making will entice more people who normally wouldn’t sub for gamepass.

you realize that this sounds a lot like 'all we gotta do is maybe wait maybe another 6-7 years for game pass to really hit its stride...'

 

[R3claimer117]

you realize that this sounds a lot like 'all we gotta do is maybe wait maybe another 6-7 years for game pass to really hit its stride...'

lol they only just spent 70 billion dollars largest purchase in video game history I think that’s exactly what that means. Not to mention they’ve spent almost a hundred billion dollars on acquisitions and game pass deals the idea that they won’t see it through is just short sighted.

 

[JackMcGunns]

Is this an out of season April's Fool joke?

It's actually honey bait for the circle jerk.

 

[Raonak]

lol they only just spent 70 billion dollars largest purchase in video game history I think that’s exactly what that means. Not to mention they’ve spent almost a hundred billion dollars on acquisitions and game pass deals the idea that they won’t see it through is just short sighted.

Until they actually start releasing games, it's all hopes and dreams. Based on xbox's studio management skills, there's no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[semiconscious]

lol they only just spent 70 billion dollars largest purchase in video game history I think that’s exactly what that means. Not to mention they’ve spent almost a hundred billion dollars on acquisitions and game pass deals the idea that they won’t see it through is just short sighted.

it's not so much a matter of them not 'seeing it through'. it's a matter of potential/current game pass subscribers 'seeing it through'. or are you suggesting we all just come back in a few years when it's finally firing on all cylinders?...

 

[nick776]

I totally agree with your assertions. Microsoft has focused far too much on GamePass since its inception than it has Hardware and actually making good games. It is as if something has distracted Microsoft from what truly matters in this business and caused them to make poor decision after poor decision. It isn't difficult to imagine Microsoft executives initially thinking that the appeal of playing MANY games for free with a small subscription fee would outweigh any desire to play a few REALLY GOOD games on PS which have to be bought at full retail price. I suppose they were thinking that gamers would flock to GamePass over the heavy-hitting, truly spectacular SP games on PS4 and PS5 which they would have to pay for individually. They were terribly wrong, spectacularly wrong. That is OK, though, as everyone should learn from their mistakes. Not Microsoft though, they just keep ramping up their operation into the same nonsense without ever "fixing" what they really need to improve--give us good games, a modern controller with modern features, get rid of the Series S which is holding back other games, (and I will say it AGAIN) MAKE REALLY GOOD GAMES THAT PEOPLE WANT TO PLAY and get rid of the onslaught of first person garbage. Actually, I guess they are also incapable of getting rid of first person garbage as they are giving us a first person Indiana Jones nobody wanted, NOBODY.

 

[pasterpl]

people Have so much salt to give, gamepass is profitable and growing, for gamers, this year looks like another excellent one compared to what competitors are offering.

People are delusional here, what downfall, look at game sales on console and mobile it is Nintendo, abk(now Xbox), and Xbox, latest data for console sales from US shows Xbox still selling consoles there are not stopping. Yes, they are not nr 1 (usually occupy 3rd place) but they are selling. Revenue wise I think they will be nr 1-2 in 2024 just after tencent. Downfall. Sony cane get in more trouble if their gaas strategy will not click.

You got proof that Sony owns Neogaf?

Sorry to bother you @Mod of War but can we look at getting this thread locked since pasterpl thinks it's pure console war bait?

For me I don't think its wrong to discuss what effects Gamepass has on the Xbox brand. Things like the impact to Xboxs revenue would make sense in the discussion. My main issue would be how the OP would start a discussion like this. Reading through the OP a third time it doesn't seem like he's coming off as an extreme console warrior.

Got banned couple of times for criticising Sony or reporting Sony fanboys shitting in Xbox threads.Rarely see this happening other way around.

don’t you think that it is suspicious that so much fud about gamepass is allowed even when Xbox officials states something opposite? don’t you think that it is suspicious that shitting in Xbox game threads by Sony fanboys is allowed (got banned for reporting this) but if you say bad thing about Sony game in the game op you get reported to heaven and then banned.

 

[THE DUCK]

This would make sense if the subscription was free. Netflix started out this way they spend hundreds of million on content and they’re still having great success. They’ve been done with physical tangible media for how long now? The only difference between that content and this is the interactivity one can say Microsoft stand to make even more money since there are in game micropayments in some of these games as well as extra dlc content that someone on Netflix paying the same or more doesn’t have the option to. The real barometer test to this is once all the abk content is inside gamepass and some of these pop culture IPs Microsoft has finally woken up to and decided to start making will entice more people who normally wouldn’t sub for gamepass.

Netflix was not free from the start.

 

[pasterpl]

I totally agree with your assertions. Microsoft has focused far too much on GamePass since its inception than it has Hardware and actually making good games. It is as if something has distracted Microsoft from what truly matters in this business and caused them to make poor decision after poor decision. It isn't difficult to imagine Microsoft executives initially thinking that the appeal of playing MANY games for free with a small subscription fee would outweigh any desire to play a few REALLY GOOD games on PS which have to be bought at full retail price. I suppose they were thinking that gamers would flock to GamePass over the heavy-hitting, truly spectacular SP games on PS4 and PS5 which they would have to pay for individually. They were terribly wrong, spectacularly wrong. That is OK, though, as everyone should learn from their mistakes. Not Microsoft though, they just keep ramping up their operation into the same nonsense without ever "fixing" what they really need to improve--give us good games, a modern controller with modern features, get rid of the Series S which is holding back other games, (and I will say it AGAIN) MAKE REALLY GOOD GAMES THAT PEOPLE WANT TO PLAY and get rid of the onslaught of first person garbage. Actually, I guess they are also incapable of getting rid of first person garbage as they are giving us a first person Indiana Jones nobody wanted, NOBODY.

what poor decisions?, gamepass is in league of their own, Xbox series hardware is excellent, MS even won publisher of the year 2 years ago, this year looks like another excellent 1st party year (their game variety is very refreshing) + lots of 3rd party eg. Stalker 2. They have acquired Bethesda and ABK (have a look who is making lots of money on mobile), they made Rare to release their most successful game ever. Are you living in parallel universe?

My subjective take; I dont know here this comes from, I have played ghost of Tsushima, god of war, spiderman, horizon on my ps4 pro and all, for me were massively overrated, boring, repetitive games in long time, when Sony audience will get tired of these I don’t know? - I know that some one will now throw sales numbers ignoring how much Sony is spending on marketing(on launch they spend 3x more than ms on Xbox series), brand strength/loyalty in non US/Uk etc.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Got banned couple of times for criticising Sony or reporting Sony fanboys shitting in Xbox threads.Rarely see this happening other way around.

don’t you think that it is suspicious that so much fud about gamepass is allowed even when Xbox officials states something opposite? don’t you think that it is suspicious that shitting in Xbox game threads by Sony fanboys is allowed (got banned for reporting this) but if you say bad thing about Sony game in the game op you get reported to heaven and then banned.

Well your still here and I did tag a mod to look at the subject. So that theory is out the window.

As for discussing gamepass there's nothing wrong with discussing the negative effects that it has on the Xbox platform. Like how it might impact quality or software sales are two pretty big points that get discussed. I know when it comes to software sales we have evidence that cannibalazation does happen. Quality is pretty subjective though in my opinion.

As for gamepass affecting hardware sales I wouldn't say that it does directly. But more the combination of the games being available on PC, gamepass being on PC and day one releases being a thing. Someone with a PC and gamepass probably won't buy Xbox hardware and that includes the software thats available on Xbox.

Gamepass isn't all positives for Microsoft there's definitely some negatives which is the price to have such a service. Many of those effects we are currently seeing and discussing.

 

[pasterpl]

Well your still here and I did tag a mod to look at the subject. So that theory is out the window.

Yeah, just got a warning for mentioning this in this thread. All is OK. /s

As for discussing gamepass there's nothing wrong with discussing the negative effects that it has on the Xbox platform. Like how it might impact quality or software sales are two pretty big points that get discussed. I know when it comes to software sales we have evidence that cannibalazation does happen. Quality is pretty subjective though in my opinion.

As for gamepass affecting hardware sales I wouldn't say that it does directly. But more the combination of the games being available on PC, gamepass being on PC and day one releases being a thing. Someone with a PC and gamepass probably won't buy Xbox hardware and that includes the software thats available on Xbox.

Gamepass isn't all positives for Microsoft there's definitely some negatives which is the price to have such a service. Many of those effects we are currently seeing and discussing.

You are correct, this is DISCUSSION forum, so discussion should be allowed on any subject but there are thing you can not say because you will get banned and I don’t talk about obvious things, there is clear bias towards one platform.

coming back to discussion, looking at Xbox revenues Gamepass helped Xbox, But i dont look at Xbox as console only, I play on my pc, cloud and series x, for me it is same platform, and that’s what MS is selling.

 

[ahtlas7]

Leave X-box alone, they make great controllers

I’ve even switched to the DualSense on my PC.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Yeah, just got a warning for mentioning this in this thread. All is OK. /s

Yeah and you haven't been banned yet. But you did have a persecution complex because your saying the mods are blue boys targeting Xbox fans which isn't true.

 

[MasterCornholio]

coming back to discussion, looking at Xbox revenues Gamepass helped Xbox, But i dont look at Xbox as console only, I play on my pc, cloud and series x, for me it is same platform, and that’s what MS is selling.

I doesn't matter what you think hardware sales are still very important. Because a rising tide lifts all boats and that's true with what hardware sales does to revenue that comes from software an/subscriptions.

 

[Bankai]

no... it wasn't.

 

[R3claimer117]

Netflix was not free from the start.

Read again and tell me where I ever asserted Netflix was free. Try reading !

 

[R3claimer117]

it's not so much a matter of them not 'seeing it through'. it's a matter of potential/current game pass subscribers 'seeing it through'. or are you suggesting we all just come back in a few years when it's finally firing on all cylinders?...

They do have 33 million gamepass subscribers according to analysts and this not counting the free tier. So you don’t have to come back at all 33 million people are in that service now paying and 80 percent of that is ultimate subs. This is without the network effect of having abk games in game pass. Once that happens that’s going to shift subs.

 

[THE DUCK]

Read again and tell me where I ever asserted Netflix was free. Try reading !

What? You literally said netflix started out as free. If you didn't mean that, don't write it.

"This would make sense if the subscription was free. Netflix started out this way"

 

[Sacred]

MRC is what matter to these companies and developers, they don't have to rely on month to month fluctuation. Why do you think every single software developer is moving to a recurring subscription?

They provide insane value for the price and it has led to over 33 million people subscribing, so no this didn't lead to the downfall of xbox, that's just idiotic.

 

[Shakka43]

No it was Kinect. It was always Kinect.

Funnily enough, Kinect was Xbox's biggest success.

 

[semiconscious]

They do have 33 million gamepass subscribers according to analysts and this not counting the free tier. So you don’t have to come back at all 33 million people are in that service now paying and 80 percent of that is ultimate subs. This is without the network effect of having abk games in game pass. Once that happens that’s going to shift subs.

right. so all ms has to do is hope that those current 33 million subscribers will still be there, still playing that 'over 100 high quality games', 6-7 years from now, right?...

 

[Nvzman]

No it was Kinect. It was always Kinect.

It really was though. Name one must-have exclusive since Kinect took over the 360.

 

[Bry0]

Funnily enough, Kinect was Xbox's biggest success.

It sold a ton to casuals and destroyed their long term reputation for the Xbox brand. Short term thinking. Kinect 2.0 was one of the many reasons people jumped ship to the ps4 and built their digital library with Sony. They tried to do damage control and tried to use BC and the one x specifically to try to get those people who jumped ship back.

 

[Paulistano]

Microsoft downfall started with Kinect it only got worse from there.

 

[nick776]

what poor decisions?, gamepass is in league of their own, Xbox series hardware is excellent, MS even won publisher of the year 2 years ago, this year looks like another excellent 1st party year (their game variety is very refreshing) + lots of 3rd party eg. Stalker 2. They have acquired Bethesda and ABK (have a look who is making lots of money on mobile), they made Rare to release their most successful game ever. Are you living in parallel universe?

My subjective take; I dont know here this comes from, I have played ghost of Tsushima, god of war, spiderman, horizon on my ps4 pro and all, for me were massively overrated, boring, repetitive games in long time, when Sony audience will get tired of these I don’t know? - I know that some one will now throw sales numbers ignoring how much Sony is spending on marketing(on launch they spend 3x more than ms on Xbox series), brand strength/loyalty in non US/Uk etc.

I'm not trying to down Xbox, Xbox remains my favorite console. It's just that the totality of their decisions, as a whole, are not good. Why did they think it was a good idea to launch the Series systems with the same controller form 10 years ago when both their competition had advanced haptics AND gyro support? Why did they think proprietary SSD was better than allowing the user to install an off shelf SSD for much cheaper with higher capacity, why did they release RedFall when it should have been cancelled outright, why did they release Forza Motorsport in its terrible condition, the list goes on and on.

 

[Banjo64]

Game Pass was their answer to declining software sales.

The declining software sales were a result of a decade of gross studio mismanagement.

 

[SHA]

I subbed for 2 years, then unsubbed but started buying more frequently, there's no journalism in this process unfortunately.

 

[R3claimer117]

right. so all ms has to do is hope that those current 33 million subscribers will still be there, still playing that 'over 100 high quality games', 6-7 years from now, right?...

Again in 2024 they’ve announced 4 big games going into game pass. This is in addition to this years Call of duty game and anything else coming out of ABK not to mention additional gamepass deals. Why would people be leaving when their best foot forward is incoming. If people stuck around and grew subs during the dark droughts now they’re going to leave when the games are coming? lol what?!

 

[R3claimer117]

What? You literally said netflix started out as free. If you didn't mean that, don't write it.

"This would make sense if the subscription was free. Netflix started out this way"

I never said that I was replying to someone else earlier. Please read the original context. I never said Netflix was free I said it’s not like it started out free meaning it didn’t.

 

[NickFire]

Again in 2024 they’ve announced 4 big games going into game pass. This is in addition to this years Call of duty game and anything else coming out of ABK not to mention additional gamepass deals. Why would people be leaving when their best foot forward is incoming. If people stuck around and grew subs during the dark droughts now they’re going to leave when the games are coming? lol what?!

Are those serious questions?

If so, the answer is obvious. $1 stacked gold to GP promos don’t endure in perpetuity.

 

[R3claimer117]

Are those serious questions?

If so, the answer is obvious. $1 stacked gold to GP promos don’t endure in perpetuity.

Lmao can we stop this non sense of saying that all game pass subs are 1 dollar subs. That’s just nonsense. 80 percent of the subs are ultimate. Content and services were up in their last financial report. Come on now again it’s ok for each one of these systems and their ecosystems to thrive. Just today Sony said PlayStation future is on consoles, pc, cloud and mobile. I wonder if that means they’re going third party .

 

[THE DUCK]

I never said that I was replying to someone else earlier. Please read the original context. I never said Netflix was free I said it’s not like it started out free meaning it didn’t.

Then write proper points instead of rudely calling people out for not understanding your poorly written replies in the future.

 

[THE DUCK]

Wait.....what downfall of xbox? Not quite done and out yet.

 

[BlackTron]

look at game sales on console and mobile it is Nintendo, abk(now Xbox), and Xbox,

If you can actually show me this I'll look at it

latest data for console sales from US shows Xbox still selling consoles there are not stopping. Yes, they are not nr 1 (usually occupy 3rd place) but they are selling.

Who said Xbox consoles stopped getting bought altogether? I think the number has always been the concern?

Revenue wise I think they will be nr 1-2 in 2024 just after tencent. Downfall.

Basically the downfall idea is silly because you "think" their revenue will be #2 after tencent. And you think that because...? Or does all of MS count not just Xbox? It's hard for me to imagine Xbox only raking in more than either Sony or Nintendo the way they've been killing it.

Sony cane get in more trouble if their gaas strategy will not click.

Better to have the potential to find trouble than already be in it.

don’t you think that it is suspicious that so much fud about gamepass is allowed even when Xbox officials states something opposite?

Xbox officials are the only way to for sure know the truth.

don’t you think that it is suspicious that shitting in Xbox game threads by Sony fanboys is allowed (got banned for reporting this) but if you say bad thing about Sony game in the game op you get reported to heaven and then banned.

I think it depends on your definition of "shitting in" and "spreading fud". To a lot of people they're just calling it as they see it and it's not a bannable offense. Whereas expressing an opinion masquerading as obvious facts could be seen as "shitting in" a thread.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

This would make sense if the subscription was free. Netflix started out this way they spend hundreds of million on content and they’re still having great success. They’ve been done with physical tangible media for how long now? The only difference between that content and this is the interactivity one can say Microsoft stand to make even more money since there are in game micropayments in some of these games as well as extra dlc content that someone on Netflix paying the same or more doesn’t have the option to. The real barometer test to this is once all the abk content is inside gamepass and some of these pop culture IPs Microsoft has finally woken up to and decided to start making will entice more people who normally wouldn’t sub for gamepass.

Netflix had the luck that it took the rest of the industry about 5 years to even launch a competitor. By then they were firmly entrenched.

 

[NickFire]

Lmao can we stop this non sense of saying that all game pass subs are 1 dollar subs. That’s just nonsense. 80 percent of the subs are ultimate. Content and services were up in their last financial report. Come on now again it’s ok for each one of these systems and their ecosystems to thrive. Just today Sony said PlayStation future is on consoles, pc, cloud and mobile. I wonder if that means they’re going third party .

Ah, no, I didn’t mean all currently are or even the majority. Literally just mean why some would be leaving. I think all subs have some risk of subscriber loss when trials end. By no means do I think all have cancelled or will.

 

[semiconscious]

Again in 2024 they’ve announced 4 big games going into game pass. This is in addition to this years Call of duty game and anything else coming out of ABK not to mention additional gamepass deals. Why would people be leaving when their best foot forward is incoming. If people stuck around and grew subs during the dark droughts now they’re going to leave when the games are coming? lol what?!

because, if, like myself, you've already been through their core game pass inventory (& there most definitely is one), there's no reason to permanently sub when you can simply wait till a game you're interested in releases, & then sub for a month, play it & whatever else might've been added, & then unsub? so: you basically get to play whatever big releases you like on the cheap, & leave it at that...

 

[JackMcGunns]

Microsoft downfall started with Kinect it only got worse from there.

Yes and No. Just to clarify this a bit, Kinect was initially an add-on, people willfully went out and purchased it because of hit games like Dance Central and Kinect Sports. Dance Central 1&2 were pretty great games actually. It was a fad where motion was all the rage at the time and some neat stuff came out of it, along with shovelware, mostly shovelware. The platform didn't have to hurt any more than the Guitar Hero and Rockband fad going away because they're mutually exclusive platforms.

Everything was fine, until....

They forced it into Xbox One and you had no choice but to buy the damn thing if you wanted to buy an Xbox, adding $100 to the bill, and to exacerbate the issue further, there were some decisions that went into the design of Xbox One that made it cost more to make than a PS4 while at the same time being less powerful. They needed to guarantee that the system had 8GB of ram to run the ambitious OS, there was no route to 8GB of GDDR5 at the time (If you look up the timeline, Samsung had not released a chip with the density to fit it on the board in a 256-bit design) so you either had to stick with 4GB of GDDR5 or 8GB of DDR3 and MS went with the latter while Sony stuck with 4GB of GDDR5... whelp the stars were aligned for Sony and production was right on time that allowed the use of 8GB where Sony upped the system from 4GB to 8GB of GDDR5 which made fans go on a frenzee. The Xbox One having gone with 8GB of DDR3 meant they had to add ESRAM to the die, which made the GPU die actually more expensive and the design more complicated for developers, but also left little room for compute units, ultimately leaving a die with 14CUs vs Sony 20CUs (respectively 12 and 18 active).

All of the above is to say that you have one system that's $100 more expensive and less powerful, it just did not make sense to gamers, but it didn't end there, now here comes what imo made things a horrible start for Xbox, the "Always On, always online" policy where games had to do a check against the server or you would get a message that you needed to connect to the internet for the game disc that you purchased would work... W... T... F!? people started going bananas, there were even YouTube videos showing games suddenly stop working because of this check, it happened with Killer Insticnt during a tournament, and although it was ultimately reversed with a day one patch, severe damage was already done, the news spread like wildfire and gamers refused to touch an Xbox even with a 10 foot pole, the momentum that Xbox 360 had built over the PS3 was completely wiped clean and it is now Xbox One doing the walk of shame like the PS3 $599 fiasco of 2005, a complete reversal where MS is still picking up the pieces.

 

[Bond007]

Xbox was already in trouble.
But the Gamepass model doesnt work- it never has, and especially after the honeymoon phase vanished. The only reason Xbox has remained afloat outside of the 360 generation is because of Microsoft's infinite wallet
You could say the original Xbox only survived due to that wallet.

Tell me i dont have to pay full price for Xbox games. Just cancel and renew my Gamepass sub as i need for big releases to try the game out. Havent purchased an Xbox game since they started Gamepass- I simply dont need to. Even more especially that i only use the console for the limited exclusives they do have. So with that in mind- i rarely have an active Gamepass sub anyway.

 

[Jadsey]

The OP is completely right, I just fear Xbox will bring the whole industry crashing down with it.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

The OP is completely right, I just fear Xbox will bring the whole industry crashing down with it.

Nah. Just itself. Nintendo, PlayStation, and Steam will continue to exist and thrive.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

The OP is completely right, I just fear Xbox will bring the whole industry crashing down with it.

The industry is dramatically different then it use to be and I don’t think Xbox has anything to do with the change.

Just look at a game like palword being so successful, that should tell you the gaming audience is very different than it use to be but the hardcore audience just won’t accept that.

If anything, MS might be ahead of the curve with just creating a sub service instead of trying to push individual games at $70 as the only option to play their first party games.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Palworld will save us all!

 

[Paulistano]

Yes and No. Just to clarify this a bit, Kinect was initially an add-on, people willfully went out and purchased it because of hit games like Dance Central and Kinect Sports. Dance Central 1&2 were pretty great games actually. It was a fad where motion was all the rage at the time and some neat stuff came out of it, along with shovelware, mostly shovelware. The platform didn't have to hurt any more than the Guitar Hero and Rockband fad going away because they're mutually exclusive platforms.

Everything was fine, until....

They forced it into Xbox One and you had no choice but to buy the damn thing if you wanted to buy an Xbox, adding $100 to the bill, and to exacerbate the issue further, there were some decisions that went into the design of Xbox One that made it cost more to make than a PS4 while at the same time being less powerful. They needed to guarantee that the system had 8GB of ram to run the ambitious OS, there was no route to 8GB of GDDR5 at the time (If you look up the timeline, Samsung had not released a chip with the density to fit it on the board in a 256-bit design) so you either had to stick with 4GB of GDDR5 or 8GB of DDR3 and MS went with the latter while Sony stuck with 4GB of GDDR5... whelp the stars were aligned for Sony and production was right on time that allowed the use of 8GB where Sony upped the system from 4GB to 8GB of GDDR5 which made fans go on a frenzee. The Xbox One having gone with 8GB of DDR3 meant they had to add ESRAM to the die, which made the GPU die actually more expensive and the design more complicated for developers, but also left little room for compute units, ultimately leaving a die with 14CUs vs Sony 20CUs (respectively 12 and 18 active).

All of the above is to say that you have one system that's $100 more expensive and less powerful, it just did not make sense to gamers, but it didn't end there, now here comes what imo made things a horrible start for Xbox, the "Always On, always online" policy where games had to do a check against the server or you would get a message that you needed to connect to the internet for the game disc that you purchased would work... W... T... F!? people started going bananas, there were even YouTube videos showing games suddenly stop working because of this check, it happened with Killer Insticnt during a tournament, and although it was ultimately reversed with a day one patch, severe damage was already done, the news spread like wildfire and gamers refused to touch an Xbox even with a 10 foot pole, the momentum that Xbox 360 had built over the PS3 was completely wiped clean and it is now Xbox One doing the walk of shame like the PS3 $599 fiasco of 2005, a complete reversal where MS is still picking up the pieces.

Yes it's optional accessory but I remember that they pushed hard and how many bundles it had but what I'm trying to say is after it they changed for the worse, with 360 they where chasing the Ps2 success and with Kinect they begin chasing after the Wii success, they also fired Peter Moore and it just started falling apart with great incompetence, they didn't know anymore what to do and with the Xbone they went full stupid with TV, it looks like they never had a strategy or if they do they keep changing midway and they are always chasing someone sucess, like removing the requirement of Kinect on Xbone midway to chase after the Ps4 success.

In my opinion Microsoft need to fire Spencer and find someone who really understand gaming I know that people don't like Bobby Kotick but he really understood it and Microsoft just let him go.