we're being priced out of our hobby.

Tech and software prices fall over time. Entertainment on the cheap is abundant. If you desire something new while sticking to budget then keep an eye out for deals or promotional discounts and stick to things you really like instead of having a passive interest in.
 
Generic said:
"Stop being poor", the post.
Click to expand...
I would like to see a few things:
  1. A chart comparing the buying power of the dollar over time versus inflation 1990-2025.
  2. A chart showing salary growth needed to maintain lifestyle over time. 1990-2025 inflation : salary comparison saying $40,000/yr in 1990 means what in 2025?.
  3. A comparison chart showing federal minimum wage versus average US median salary versus average consumer price index.
If we're going to generalize a blanket term like this lets lay the cards on the table and see just how much people are worth over time, and what it takes to maintain that standard over time. I assure you unless you are job hoping every three years you are losing money per hour of work. Shit upper management and CEOs do it all the time. It is just that they are paid enough to do that without great sacrifice to lifestyle.
 
adamsapple said:




Laptop and Desktop's are also about to get even more expensive.
Click to expand...

What The Hell No GIF
 
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NeverYouMind said:
Tech and software prices fall over time. Entertainment on the cheap is abundant. If you desire something new while sticking to budget then keep an eye out for deals or promotional discounts and stick to things you really like instead of having a passive interest in.
Click to expand...
The problem is a lot of people don't understand the capabilities of what they have. If your post were true for everybody, hardware tiers would be everywhere, vs, oh I NEED a 3080, etc.

Edit: Wrong thread for the 3080 comment but comment still stands.

I mean, who has recently played ChuLip? Or dot.HACK? There's all sorts of games out there that are great, not being played. Price removed in some cases.
 
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I'd say the ps5 pro is looking like the best value every day. I'm very happy with my purchase and am in no hurry to upgrade at all.

If I can get 1440 60fps I'm happy. Obviously 4K is preferable but the 60fps is a show stopper for me now. I can't be dealing with 30fps any more.
 
$70 already felt like a hard pill when games that release require an insane amount of patches and these patches aren't small in size, the $80-90 is just insane. Can devs promise no patch ever(The game will be thorough and complete in the disc without the need for a patch), even then the $80-90 isn't justifiable.
 
It has been one day and I'm already tired of this phrase and this topic. If $10 more is going to be a problem for you, then assess your finances.

When a standard edition of a game is $120 for everyone everywhere, then you can cry about being priced out. Now maybe you should start really researching games before you buy, instead of all the FOMO shopping and backlog shopping people do.

And when it comes to Nintendo, you've always been priced out, especially since the Wii. The hardware rarely goes on sale years later despite being woefully outdated right out of the gate, and the software rarely sees sales and when it does it is rarely significant. You've also been paying for the same digital rental service for years across generations, for the same 35 year old games. NOW you're complaining about being priced out? The issue is your understanding of and perspective of things, not another $10 per game.
 
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X8XFoundries said:
So Here's The Deal

The End-User market has effectively gotten too addicted to shiny things. Unironically, available pretty much everywhere, are PC's and game libraries that no one thinks are worth using.

Right now I am using a 2013 Mac Pro, and they built them until the end of 2018 with basically dual R9 290's, the card that they basically kept around till the 680 meme release?

Otherwise, go buy used games and rip them. If you can't rip them, get someone else rip, but make sure you have the real copy too. Xbox Recompile Project is coming along great, emulators run PS2 with ease, gamecube runs on switch, and hell even hacking a switch to have a computer isn't that hard.

I think people have begun to vastly over-estimate how much computer they actually need, and instead of organizing to make what they have robust, they fall for the scam of "Bigger number better".

I can tell you, it was only a few years ago that a 9800GT became useless in gaming. As well, people demand higher frame rates now that we don't have CRT's.
Click to expand...

I completely agree. Yes, Nvidia is running a train on consumers, but only because consumers are letting them.

And me personally, I'm simply not impressed with more polygons and particle effects. It's great that my car can go 800mph, but I'm just going to the grocery store 99.99% of the time.

Technology is not a replacement for creativity and too many devs apparently don't know that or don't care.

FROM's games have been consistently behind the curve in the tech department and guess what, people are still clamoring for their games because they prioritized the right things above pure fidelity.

Give me good art, good mechanics, and good performance before even thinking about pushing polygons to their limit.
 
X8XFoundries said:
And 300 releases of Skyrim is a good deal to you?
Click to expand...
what?
I only bought it once. in 2011.

Anyway. More on switch 2 games pricing and people complaining.
I hope they won't listen.
Customer is rarely right. Especially poor customer.
Everything around us got 2-4x more expensive in last 5 years alone... let alone games being 50-70$ for last... 20-30 years !?
OR - they could scale games back to what they were on 360-ps3... but then people and idiot reviewers are screaming that the game is "only 8-20" hours... so we end up with 100 hours ac games
 
No you're not, you're just getting hardware that these companies need 10 year lifespan on, hence. "Pro" systems. Even brand new consoles and gpu's, imo, just don't surpass the hype they used to. Games because they are built on all similar engines and assets all have the look and same feel.

Sony and MS caved to the BC community. Ow all be and new hardware has to run games from 2020.
 
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iQuasarLV said:
I would like to see a few things:
  1. A chart comparing the buying power of the dollar over time versus inflation 1990-2025.
  2. A chart showing salary growth needed to maintain lifestyle over time. 1990-2025 inflation : salary comparison saying $40,000/yr in 1990 means what in 2025?.
  3. A comparison chart showing federal minimum wage versus average US median salary versus average consumer price index.
If we're going to generalize a blanket term like this lets lay the cards on the table and see just how much people are worth over time, and what it takes to maintain that standard over time. I assure you unless you are job hoping every three years you are losing money per hour of work. Shit upper management and CEOs do it all the time. It is just that they are paid enough to do that without great sacrifice to lifestyle.
Click to expand...
Skimming some online sites, I found this for USA. Surprisingly harder info to get as an apples to apples comparison calculator, but here's what I found:

Inflation. 1990-2024 (the dont have a 2025 year). So prices have more than doubled (+141%)

1DqKp1F.jpeg


www.minneapolisfed.org

Inflation Calculator | Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis

What’s a dollar worth? How far does a past dollar stretch to equal the modern dollar? What would past prices be today?
www.minneapolisfed.org www.minneapolisfed.org


USA wages. 1990-2023 (they dont have 2024-25). And googling it, you get different numbers for 2025. For sake of argument lets even keep 2025 at the same wage as 2023 at $66,600. 1990 is $21,000 avg wages. $66,6000 is more than triple (+217%)

9G8Purt.jpeg


National Average Wage Index

Cost of Living Adjustment
www.ssa.gov
 
StreetsofBeige said:
Skimming some online sites, I found this for USA. Surprisingly harder info to get as an apples to apples comparison calculator, but here's what I found:

Inflation. 1990-2024 (the dont have a 2025 year). So prices have more than doubled (+141%)

1DqKp1F.jpeg


www.minneapolisfed.org

Inflation Calculator | Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis

What’s a dollar worth? How far does a past dollar stretch to equal the modern dollar? What would past prices be today?
www.minneapolisfed.org www.minneapolisfed.org


USA wages. 1990-2023 (they dont have 2024-25). And googling it, you get different numbers for 2025. For sake of argument lets even keep 2025 at the same wage as 2023 at $66,600. 1990 is $21,000 avg wages. $66,6000 is more than triple (+217%)

9G8Purt.jpeg


National Average Wage Index

Cost of Living Adjustment
www.ssa.gov
Click to expand...
Cough

Tarriffs
 
iQuasarLV said:
I would like to see a few things:
  1. A chart comparing the buying power of the dollar over time versus inflation 1990-2025.
  2. A chart showing salary growth needed to maintain lifestyle over time. 1990-2025 inflation : salary comparison saying $40,000/yr in 1990 means what in 2025?.
  3. A comparison chart showing federal minimum wage versus average US median salary versus average consumer price index.
If we're going to generalize a blanket term like this lets lay the cards on the table and see just how much people are worth over time, and what it takes to maintain that standard over time. I assure you unless you are job hoping every three years you are losing money per hour of work. Shit upper management and CEOs do it all the time. It is just that they are paid enough to do that without great sacrifice to lifestyle.
Click to expand...

Wages track fairly closely with the consumer price index:

KqCSQbQ.jpeg


For inflation you can use a calculator like here:

www.bls.gov

CPI Inflation Calculator

www.bls.gov www.bls.gov

A $60 Switch game in March 2017 will be close to $80 for a Switch 2 game by the time June arrives:

hF0DYv9.jpeg


People might argue that the Switch 2 is about $50 overpriced compared to the Switch:

ZNsfIgA.jpeg


But that fails to take into account things like tariffs, the cost of which always get passed onto the consumer. And also the hardware is not an exact 1:1 comparison ie. it goes without saying that a Switch is not a Switch 2. It depends on how much the hardware costs Nintendo to produce and how much they are skimming off the top this time around. That's just complete fart in the wind speculation at this point.

Compare to something more modern, it's $50 more expensive than the base Steam Deck LCD was in 2022, despite seemingly offering better hardware. Not a peep was raised about that even though the Steam Deck RRP would be almost exactly $450 today...

EBWInAE.jpeg


Basically, I don't believe the price increases we see in gaming are anything out of the ordinary ie. they broadly align with the CPI. But it can also be true that the average worker should be getting paid better.

64gigabyteram said:
This includes prices and not just wages you know that? We wouldn't need wage increases if price drops didn't go extinct
Click to expand...

Sure you can tilt the balance back in favor of wages by lowering prices - but how do you realistically do that? Nintendo shareholders are not going to allow money to be left on the table for the good of humanity. If a government forces them to do it via some sort of price control, there is practically a consensus among economists that historically these are almost always a terrible idea. The best and most carefully studied way to tilt the balance is with wage increases.

Nintendo are the second highest paying company in Japan with one of the highest employee retention rates. They are posting record profits but obviously that is actually being reflected in the wellbeing of their employees - you should take issue with the fact that many other companies are not doing the same.
 
There is a difference between able to afford something and willing to pay a price you do not believe meets the value. For example, I can afford a $50 hotdog but I do not think it is worth that much. If Gaming continues to get more expensive while the Quality is not improving, I will just stay with retro gaming and leave modern gaming to the Gen Z / wealthy crowd. The whole stop being poor argument is for arrogant assholes who do not know the value of real money.
 
You know, a really key thing to making gaming hella cheap (and it can be) is to broaden your tastes. Too many so called enthusiasts are driven by hopping every hype train that comes along. So their favorite quality of a game is essentially the marketing budget.
 
Gamer79 said:
There is a difference between able to afford something and willing to pay a price you do not believe meets the value. For example, I can afford a $50 hotdog but I do not think it is worth that much. If Gaming continues to get more expensive while the Quality is not improving, I will just stay with retro gaming and leave modern gaming to the Gen Z / wealthy crowd. The whole stop being poor argument is for arrogant assholes who do not know the value of real money.
Click to expand...

Crayon said:
You know, a really key thing to making gaming hella cheap (and it can be) is to broaden your tastes. Too many so called enthusiasts are driven by hopping every hype train that comes along. So their favorite quality of a game is essentially the marketing budget.
Click to expand...
I find it funny that we are expecting better games when the devs don't even know how to use the hardware yet. Game devs have always had constraints. Comparably, now you can do almost anything on a Gen 1 Switch. Yet, the games still run horribly. I even run into issue with BOTW, and that's been translated from PPC binaries to ARM. It shouldn't be horribly difficult to pull off ports, especially with 4 cores, 4Gb ram, should be more than capable. Yet I have way fonder memories, and even still, game sessions, on a Wii or DS (any gen).

It just feels like Nintendo lost their spark to me.
 
You don't need a 1000 GPU or a PS5Pro.
These are the enthusiast products, not the average consumer ones.
If you want these and you can't afford them, you need to make changes in your life so you can afford them.

At the moment, the cheapest option to get in the generation with a brand new console is around 350€ with the Series S.

For Nintendo though, i agree. There is nothing in their machines or games that justify the price.
They've been playing their cards very smart, being half a generation behind chronologically and they follow the pricing policies of the industry with a delay.
They introduce their price increases with the new generation and hope people will swallow due to excitement.
There is no objective argument to defend their price increases. Mario Kart cannot be as expensive to make as TLoU2 for example.
 
LOL who is this this we? just sounds like a bunch of ameripoors complaining. If you can't afford to keep up with new consoles then just appreciate what you have and play that instead of thinking you have to upgrade every single time while instantly selling off all your old stuff.

People talking like it's back to the fucking neogeo £400 game era.
 
BossLackey said:
As long as good indies keep releasing on Steam, I could theoretically coast on my current hardware for the next decade. Easily.

I won't, but I could.

Not to mention, even with a 3080Ti, I'm still able to max out most games and get at least 60fps @ 1440. That probably won't change much over the next few years (terrible optimization not withstanding).
Click to expand...
PC gaming is the move.
 
X8XFoundries said:
I find it funny that we are expecting better games when the devs don't even know how to use the hardware yet. Game devs have always had constraints. Comparably, now you can do almost anything on a Gen 1 Switch. Yet, the games still run horribly. I even run into issue with BOTW, and that's been translated from PPC binaries to ARM. It shouldn't be horribly difficult to pull off ports, especially with 4 cores, 4Gb ram, should be more than capable. Yet I have way fonder memories, and even still, game sessions, on a Wii or DS (any gen).
Click to expand...

There's also the big side issue of decline in dev quality. The good news is indie game devs are going in the opposite direction though.
 
Magic Carpet said:
No, it's not normal at all.

Non hobbies. My home insurance went up $2000 per year.
$166 per month I have to pull out of my butt. Just reach right on in there and magically find $166 per month.
Entertainment is getting slim these days. Concerts and sporting events? forget about it.
Amusement parks? HA
Taking friends and family out to Up Chuck and Cheeses for bowling? Not anymore
Click to expand...

Tend to agree. A lot of people saying inflation is real, yes it is but inflation right now is destroying families (both parents working - some 2 jobs) and this is nothing but corporate greed. I haven't bought a full priced game in years.
 
Magic Carpet said:
No, it's not normal at all.

Non hobbies. My home insurance went up $2000 per year.
$166 per month I have to pull out of my butt. Just reach right on in there and magically find $166 per month.
Entertainment is getting slim these days. Concerts and sporting events? forget about it.
Amusement parks? HA
Taking friends and family out to Up Chuck and Cheeses for bowling? Not anymore
Click to expand...
Just curious. If your insurance went up $2000, what's the grand total? Do you live in a giant house?

I live in a small house and monthly insurance is maybe $100/mth total.
 
StreetsofBeige said:
Just curious. If your insurance went up $2000, what's the grand total? Do you live in a giant house?

I live in a small house and monthly insurance is maybe $100/mth total.
Click to expand...
Total Home Insurance in Escrow is $3097 or 258/mth.
When we first bought the house it was 900/year and just kept going up every year thereafter.
 
It's not just hobbies...we're being priced out of basically everything. Anyone that thought the Switch 2 would come in less than what it did is completely fooling themselves, especially when a week's worth of groceries can easily top $300, when it was probably 1/2 to 2/3 of that just a few years ago.
 
Impotaku said:
LOL who is this this we? just sounds like a bunch of ameripoors complaining. If you can't afford to keep up with new consoles then just appreciate what you have and play that instead of thinking you have to upgrade every single time while instantly selling off all your old stuff.

People talking like it's back to the fucking neogeo £400 game era.
Click to expand...
You're right the billion dollar companies deserve our support
 
You really don't need the PS5 Pro or a GPU nearly that expensive. Switch 2 games are overpriced though. I don't play XBOX games because I can't pick up the console, so I don't have an opinion.
 
I want to say…maybe. Honestly I loved my switch, but I only bought some first party games on it so I was okay with it.

Switch 2 is probably going to be more of the same. Initially it will be a pinch, but over time I'm not going to buy enough for it to be huge.
 
We have a million videogames over the last 40+ years to enjoy. If the modern industry crashed, we would be perfectly fine. Heck, just looking at all the Switch 1 games that I haven't played means I'll be more than busy for the next couple years just getting caught up.

Hopefully, by that time, Nintendo will have come to their senses and dropped the price of Switch 2 & its games. They are good at making corrections when necessary--look at the 3DS--and the US economy is about to flame out like the Hindenberg, so I wouldn't count them out anytime soon.
 
Mario Kart, DK, maybe Prime 4 unless the kids ask for something else. I didn't like it in 2020 when it went up, but if I wait for a sale before I buy, it usually goes into my backlog and doesn't get played anymore.
 
Killer8 said:
Wages track fairly closely with the consumer price index:

KqCSQbQ.jpeg


For inflation you can use a calculator like here:

www.bls.gov

CPI Inflation Calculator

www.bls.gov www.bls.gov

A $60 Switch game in March 2017 will be close to $80 for a Switch 2 game by the time June arrives:

hF0DYv9.jpeg


People might argue that the Switch 2 is about $50 overpriced compared to the Switch:

ZNsfIgA.jpeg


But that fails to take into account things like tariffs, the cost of which always get passed onto the consumer. And also the hardware is not an exact 1:1 comparison ie. it goes without saying that a Switch is not a Switch 2. It depends on how much the hardware costs Nintendo to produce and how much they are skimming off the top this time around. That's just complete fart in the wind speculation at this point.

Compare to something more modern, it's $50 more expensive than the base Steam Deck LCD was in 2022, despite seemingly offering better hardware. Not a peep was raised about that even though the Steam Deck RRP would be almost exactly $450 today...

EBWInAE.jpeg


Basically, I don't believe the price increases we see in gaming are anything out of the ordinary ie. they broadly align with the CPI. But it can also be true that the average worker should be getting paid better.



Sure you can tilt the balance back in favor of wages by lowering prices - but how do you realistically do that? Nintendo shareholders are not going to allow money to be left on the table for the good of humanity.
Click to expand...

Now you're starting to get to the problems with capitalism. Because that same approach is used for stuff that SHOULD work for the good of humanity.

As for Nintendo, if they want less people buying the games, they can stay the course. I sure as heck won't be getting a switch 2 til winter time at the earliest in my current situation.
 
Wages have increased, yes they have kept pace with inflation generally, but what has NOT kept pace with average inflation are housing and energy costs, the two biggest expense chunks of someone's income.

What percentage of someone's income was housing and energy tracked over the same 50 year period? Because I bet today it's a heck of a lot higher.

Therefore, even though wages are up, the biggest chunks of someone's expenses (housing and energy) have dramatically increased as a percentage of someone's income, therefore leaving the vast majority of people with less disposable income.

Inflation isn't just a devaluing of currency over time as a flat across the board effect, different economic sectors have different rates of inflation.

TLDR: yes you make more money now but you spend more of it on your rent and heat/electricity, so in the end you don't have any money for those 80 dollar Nintendo games.
 
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