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What are you reading? (July 2012)

Sleepy

Member
Reading Pynchon's "Gravity's Rainbow" right now. Expect a
n extremely negative
review within a week or so.

My favorite book by a country mile. I've read it cover-to-cover three times, and there are certain sections I have read upwards of ten times. I would be lying if I said I understood absolutely everything, but goddamn is this book a masterpiece of postmodern fiction. I am in awe of it. Expect a
n extremely negative
reaction to your review.
 

Ratrat

Member
Hard-boiled Wonderland is the first Murakami book to bore me. I dislike Carrol-esque nonsense.
On the other hand The Count of Monte Cristo is entertaining with great writing.
 

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
Finished:

url


Said I was starting this before and never did, now for real:

url
 
Hello all! Long time lurker first time poster in this thread haha

I've been reading Murakami in chronological order and just finished The Wind Up Bird Chronicle and I am a bit perplexed at all the praise I've read about it. Don't get me wrong....it's still great but I think it's the one I have liked the least so far. It feels way too long and like a retread of his earlier stuff...a more drawn out Dance Dance Dance if you will...

Currently reading Horus Heresy book 4 Flight of the Eisenstein which is pretty much the exact same formula as the first three books...for those that have read them do the story beats ever change? I have the fifth one, Fulgrim I think, which at least sounds different from reading the back.

Anyways glad to be able to participate in the thread!
 
Just wanted to let everyone know that the Kindle daily deal today is Kurt Vonnegut's Welcome to the Monkey House which is a collection of 25 of his short stories. Price = $1.99
 

Kaladin

Member
Has anyone here read S. M. Stirling's Nantucket or Emberverse series? I'm thinking of starting those and from what I've read it seems to be a love it or hate it series for the most part.
 

Dresden

Member
Has anyone here read S. M. Stirling's Nantucket or Emberverse series? I'm thinking of starting those and from what I've read it seems to be a love it or hate it series for the most part.

The Nantucket series was pretty entertaining. Also one of his very few novels where the hero isn't a tall, blond, broad-shouldered and rock-jawed white guy.

Emberverse goes to shit after book one or so.
 
My favorite book by a country mile. I've read it cover-to-cover three times, and there are certain sections I have read upwards of ten times. I would be lying if I said I understood absolutely everything, but goddamn is this book a masterpiece of postmodern fiction. I am in awe of it. Expect a
n extremely negative
reaction to your review.

The book is a masterpiece of stupid, nonsensical bullshit, shallow characterization, banal philosophy, prosaic cliches, and unnecessary length.

^^^ A preview. A person might like the book, but it's so heavily flawed on such a fundamental level that calling it any kind of "good" is something that I can't see it as anything but ridiculous.
 
Finished Wastelands: Stories of the Apocalypse. The good stories were too short and the meh stories were too long. There were some real gems in there though ..

Great
Never Despair by Jack McDevitt
A Song Before Sunset by David Grigg

Good
Ginny Sweethips Flying Circus by Neal Barrett
Speech Sounds by Octavia Butler

Interesting
Dark, Dark Were the Tunnels by George RR Martin
The End of the World as We Know It by Dale Bailey
 

Sleepy

Member
The book is a masterpiece of stupid, nonsensical bullshit, shallow characterization, banal philosophy, prosaic cliches, and unnecessary length.

^^^ A preview. A person might like the book, but it's so heavily flawed on such a fundamental level that calling it any kind of "good" is something that I can't see it as anything but ridiculous.

I can see how someone would categorize postmodernist writing with those derogatory labels you throw at it, but I believe you miss the point of this type of writing. The "play," the breakdown of high/low forms, the puns, the "shallow" characters (who I would not call shallow, but instead note that they vibrate at odd frequencies), the fractured and fragmented narrative, Pynchon's stylistic tics and bizarre song-and-dance routines, are all strengths in this tradition. You seem an intelligent person, so your acerbic estimation above seems willfully ignorant of attempting to meet the text on the grounds it provides, rather than bringing presupposed literary rules/aesthetic judgments to bear on a text that willfully spits in their general direction. Pynchon, and his writing, is anything but "flawed," "stupid," "prosaic," "banal," or "unnecessary."
 
oz_set_of_books.jpg


Working my way through these right now. Just finished A Song of Ice and Fire and wanted something simple and whimsical to read through. (Though they can get pretty dark, sheesh.)

Always wanted to read them, figured now was a good time. Picked them all up on Kindle for a $1, good deal.
 
oz_set_of_books.jpg


Working my way through these right now. Just finished A Song of Ice and Fire and wanted something simple and whimsical to read through. (Though they can get pretty dark, sheesh.)

Always wanted to read them, figured now was a good time. Picked them all up on Kindle for a $1, good deal.

That's pretty cool. You should continue after that and read Gregory Maguire's novels set in Oz; Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West, Son of a Witch, A Lion among Men and Out of Oz. I've only read Wicked, but it was really good. I think the series is called The Wicked years. Also, thank you for letting me know what I'll be reading next :)
 

thisbeard

Member
Myst : The Book of Ti'Ana. #2 in the Trillogy by Rand Miller...
This is not a book I am currently reading but rather something I read a long time ago. Never played the games before so it served as an introduction to the world.. And what an introduction! It's strange because when I think of my favourite books, this one comes to mind but I can't remember any details. Only thing I remember is that it was more mature than I expected and filled with intrigue. I'm thinking of revisiting it soon. Has gaf ever read it? What did you think?
the_book_of_tiana__frontcover_large_TDiHiQiglDQwy4b.jpg
 

Dresden

Member
Finished Wastelands: Stories of the Apocalypse. The good stories were too short and the meh stories were too long. There were some real gems in there though ..

Great
Never Despair by Jack McDevitt
A Song Before Sunset by David Grigg

Good
Ginny Sweethips Flying Circus by Neal Barrett
Speech Sounds by Octavia Butler

Interesting
Dark, Dark Were the Tunnels by George RR Martin
The End of the World as We Know It by Dale Bailey

think that was my favorite out of the lot, but I like Butler's stories in general.
 
I can see how someone would categorize postmodernist writing with those derogatory labels you throw at it, but I believe you miss the point of this type of writing. The "play," the breakdown of high/low forms, the puns, the "shallow" characters (who I would not call shallow, but instead note that they vibrate at odd frequencies), the fractured and fragmented narrative, Pynchon's stylistic tics and bizarre song-and-dance routines, are all strengths in this tradition. You seem an intelligent person, so your acerbic estimation above seems willfully ignorant of attempting to meet the text on the grounds it provides, rather than bringing presupposed literary rules/aesthetic judgments to bear on a text that willfully spits in their general direction. Pynchon, and his writing, is anything but "flawed," "stupid," "prosaic," "banal," or "unnecessary."

A) There is no "play." When you break things down, you have to replace them with something, or motivate that break down in some way, or else you're left with formless sludge.

B) The characters both "vibrate at odd frequencies" (a.k.a. are pointlessly quirky and completely unbelievable) and are shallow at the same time, in that they have no depth or any interesting painting of their interior lives. Hundreds upon HUNDREDS of pages later, I know next to nothing about Tyrone Slothrop other than the fact that he likes fucking a lot of people. This is a sign of narrative failure on ANY metric, for I have absolutely no reason to want to keep moving forward other than the fact that I don't let any book, no matter how bad, beat me.

C) I have no problem with a fractured/fragmented narrative, but even the individual scenes are terribly-written, let alone the lack of cohesion that they have in the aggregate. Tarkovsky's "The Mirror" does fractured/fragmented narrative well. "Gravity's Rainbow" uses it as an excuse to put whatever bullshit Pynchon had in his head on the page with no regard for what an audience might conceivably want to read about.

D) The little lyrical interludes, songs and dances, etc. are annoying, unnecessary, and add nothing except to show Pynchon as "silly," in a totally self-conscious and affected way (especially since he's not particularly talented with verse). Not to mention that they come in the midst of scenes where there's no narrative flow, meaning that they fracture the already disconnected and boring scenes into something even MORE disconnected and boring.

E) The fact that Pynchon does what he does "purposefully" does not make it any less bad. I have no problem with postmodernity, but Pynchon doesn't have half the talent, intelligence, or imagination of Kurt Vonnegut or Woody Allen and so cannot weave these elements nearly as seamlessly as those two do in Slaughterhouse-Five, or Stardust Memories, both of which have worlds more complexity and nuance while simultaneously being much leaner works. I'm not willfully denying anything. I "get" what Pynchon is trying to do, but what he's trying to do is extremely poor and lazy on just about every level. He DOES have some talent as a wordsmith, so I slow down to enjoy the writing very occasionally, but even compared to a Faulkner or a McCarthy (neither of whom I think live up to their billing but both of whom I think have done good work), he doesn't have nearly the way with words to justify pretty much anything about the book. He can spit in whatever direction he wants, but he only exposes himself as somebody who knows quite a bit but doesn't have an entertaining or compelling, let alone cohesive (read: artistic), way of stringing those things together. I'll say that he's a better writer than David Foster Wallace, in that he has moments of good wordsmithing (and in all the DFW that I've read, I've found less than a handful of even decent lines, let alone noteworthy or memorable ones), but for every good line, there's 99+ forgettable ones, and such a ratio makes for very tedious read.


Edit: And if I'm being acerbic, it's because I think that's the response that this book deserves, given what it actually is vs. the criticism that it has actually received.
 

Kaladin

Member
Just finished.....

67f9419328a0319b8ea8e110.L.jpg


Good book, but the plot drags a bit, especially the subplot in Lakeside. Kinda wish there was more of some of the mythological characters they meet.

I'm moving on to:

71NijnliS4L.jpg


I'm a chapter or so in already, seems good....hope it's a quick read.
 
61Ef411--CL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg


If you follow book blogs, this is getting quite a bit of buzz of late. Originally self-published (strange enough for a literary doorstop), the guy's wife sent it off to a bunch of book bloggers who like the likes of Wallace, Pynchon, ec. As a result, it's now published by the University of Chicago Press (odd in and of itself, given that university presses aren't really known for novels).

Anyway, De La Pava, like his main character, Casi, is a DA in Manhattan. Casi is running afowl of the legal system through really no fault of his own. And one of his coworkers is trying to convince him to hijack a drug deal that they are privy to as a result of a dealer they are representing. And it has boxing, The Honeymooners, discussions of theology, String Theory, and a chase across the Brooklyn Bridge involving a monkey.

It's a little too self-aware (duh), but it's compulsively readable. I don't know that I out and out LOVE it, but I like it quite a bit and I've still got 1/3 to go. And as first novels go (and considering that this guy is doing on the side of his 'real' job) it's flat-out impressive.

Okay, David Foster Wallace fans listen up: I RIPPED through this book, which is rare for me. Still, I'll give it a 'very good' instead of a 'great'. On the other hand, looking at DFW's body of work, his first published work was nowhere near this good. My only reservation is that de la Pava isn't a full time writer, which is, in and of itself, a bit of a crime.

Anyway, very much influenced by DFW, without being a clone. And the boxing portions are just sublime. Seriously, this guy can WRITE.
 
A) There is no "play." When you break things down, you have to replace them with something, or motivate that break down in some way, or else you're left with formless sludge.

B) The characters both "vibrate at odd frequencies" (a.k.a. are pointlessly quirky and completely unbelievable) and are shallow at the same time, in that they have no depth or any interesting painting of their interior lives. Hundreds upon HUNDREDS of pages later, I know next to nothing about Tyrone Slothrop other than the fact that he likes fucking a lot of people. This is a sign of narrative failure on ANY metric, for I have absolutely no reason to want to keep moving forward other than the fact that I don't let any book, no matter how bad, beat me.

C) I have no problem with a fractured/fragmented narrative, but even the individual scenes are terribly-written, let alone the lack of cohesion that they have in the aggregate. Tarkovsky's "The Mirror" does fractured/fragmented narrative well. "Gravity's Rainbow" uses it as an excuse to put whatever bullshit Pynchon had in his head on the page with no regard for what an audience might conceivably want to read about.

D) The little lyrical interludes, songs and dances, etc. are annoying, unnecessary, and add nothing except to show Pynchon as "silly," in a totally self-conscious and affected way (especially since he's not particularly talented with verse). Not to mention that they come in the midst of scenes where there's no narrative flow, meaning that they fracture the already disconnected and boring scenes into something even MORE disconnected and boring.

E) The fact that Pynchon does what he does "purposefully" does not make it any less bad. I have no problem with postmodernity, but Pynchon doesn't have half the talent, intelligence, or imagination of Kurt Vonnegut or Woody Allen and so cannot weave these elements nearly as seamlessly as those two do in Slaughterhouse-Five, or Stardust Memories, both of which have worlds more complexity and nuance while simultaneously being much leaner works. I'm not willfully denying anything. I "get" what Pynchon is trying to do, but what he's trying to do is extremely poor and lazy on just about every level. He DOES have some talent as a wordsmith, so I slow down to enjoy the writing very occasionally, but even compared to a Faulkner or a McCarthy (neither of whom I think live up to their billing but both of whom I think have done good work), he doesn't have nearly the way with words to justify pretty much anything about the book. He can spit in whatever direction he wants, but he only exposes himself as somebody who knows quite a bit but doesn't have an entertaining or compelling, let alone cohesive (read: artistic), way of stringing those things together. I'll say that he's a better writer than David Foster Wallace, in that he has moments of good wordsmithing (and in all the DFW that I've read, I've found less than a handful of even decent lines, let alone noteworthy or memorable ones), but for every good line, there's 99+ forgettable ones, and such a ratio makes for very tedious read.


Edit: And if I'm being acerbic, it's because I think that's the response that this book deserves, given what it actually is vs. the criticism that it has actually received.

K. Thanks for playing. James Patterson brings out 5+ books a year, so you're good...

EDIT: I really shouldn't be as dismissive as I come off being. Still, books like GR don't stay around as long as they do for lack of a reason. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but you are waaaaaay rowing against the tide. And, honestly, for all of the comparisons of DFW to Pynchon, DFW is NOWHERE near as hard to read as Pynchon, which is not to slight the latter - it's just fact. So to use 'postmodern' as a catch-all is more than a bit of a disservice to certain writers.
 
K. Thanks for playing. James Patterson brings out 5+ books a year, so you're good...

EDIT: I really shouldn't be as dismissive as I come off being. Still, books like GR don't stay around as long as they do for lack of a reason. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but you are waaaaaay rowing against the tide. And, honestly, for all of the comparisons of DFW to Pynchon, DFW is NOWHERE near as hard to read as Pynchon, which is not to slight the latter - it's just fact. So to use 'postmodern' as a catch-all is more than a bit of a disservice to certain writers.

I brought up DFW because, despite the fact that his writing is "simpler" than Gravity's Rainbow, he's an obvious antecedent. And they're both obvious postmodern, in the worst possible senses of the term. A FB friend of mine put it well when he compared this book to Slaughterhouse-Five, which is a similarly metafictive book set in around the same time and place - SH5 is lean, mean, complex, and rewarding, couching hidden depths in the "low" form of comedy (as Vonnegut did so well), while Pynchon's is a boring, needlessly long and complex, NOT funny, devoid of interesting characters, is extremely convoluted but unrewarding when you go back and try to forge connections, uses "difficult" prose in very clumsy ways (having just read The Grapes of Wrath and Heart of Darkness before this one, I was struck at the difference between those masters of lyrical prose and Pynchon's labyrinthine BS), and most of all, is a fuckin' CHORE to read. The dude is the epitome of a boring writer of interest to the Academics that are killing the humanities because of his reference-stuffed prose, and the book is bad in a number of demonstrable ways. The fact that he "meant" it to be that way is the intentional fallacy, and I have no problem calling the book out for the fraudulent, poseurish brick that it is.

Edit: Forgive me if my tone steps over the line of civility. It's rare that I go off on something unrestrained, but it's been a long time - probably since I read A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius - that a book has angered me so much by its flagrant disregard for anything aesthetically, narratively, or intellectually coherent or interest. I resent the idea that if I hate this book, it's because I didn't "get" it or because I'm some lowest common denominator mouthbreather. If anything, I'M part of this book's target demographic.
 
NkDPn.jpg


I've been reading the Jack Reacher series by Lee Child this past month, I'm currenly in the first half of "The hard way" and finally the time frame seems to catch up to a moderm era, I always find it kind of funny reading about computers as if they were still something from science fiction and all the trouble they go to investigate something in a library etc.

But finally now everybody has a cellphones (altough they are still far from smartphones), the cases are getting better and more interesting with every book, the main character Jack Reacher still has some surprises to give and I'm not even started to get bored.

I saw the trailer from the movie a couple days ago and think that Cruise is a very bad choice for a character that has always been described more like Dolph Lundgren but whatever.

It'll probably take me another month to finish the series and will see what I'll be reading next.
 

FStop7

Banned
Time on Fire: My Comedy of Terrors by Evan Handler

518Q1CCNCQL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


He is an actor who's been on all sorts of TV series and films.

californication-evan-handler-photo-2.jpg


It's a memoir of his time going through treatment for leukemia.
 
Anyone participating? https://www.coursera.org/course/fantasysf

I want to, but don't feel like reading Grimms' 900 pages book. sigh


It (American Gods) gets hate? I was always under the impression that it was a well recieved novel by readers and critics alike. Anyways I finished last week and I loved it through and through. The beginning was a bit slow but it really picked up halfway through and it was just nonstop fun from there imo. I had to stop and look up some of the mythological names on wikipedia along the way but I enjoyed that :p

Here on gaf ive read complaints about it on other threads. And in this new edition of the book iirc gaiman mentions that it is a controversial novel. It won some big awards though.
 

Clott

Member
Currently reading:

2031951.jpg


An incredible read, it's basically the closest Asia came to it's own world war, and I am leaving the whole experience so much more enlightened about their intertwining history, especially during the end of the fifteenth century and beginning of 16th. He manages to make it read like an epic tale, so you forget you're reading a history book.

zipview.php


This is the final book to be published by Alan before while he was still living, it's a collection of essays and his been going down much faster than his other books. It's a collection of many essays and interesting ideas.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaand

1-1.jpg


This thing is freaking insane!!!! I love it, I am glad I am finally getting to read it. I wonder what manga I will hop on after I catch up on this one. I just finished Sakamichi no Apollon and that one also really blew me away.
 

Dresden

Member
Currently reading:

2031951.jpg


An incredible read, it's basically the closest Asia came to it's own world war, and I am leaving the whole experience so much more enlightened about their intertwining history, especially during the end of the fifteenth century and beginning of 16th. He manages to make it read like an epic tale, so you forget you're reading a history book.
Man, I'd love to revisit the Imjin War from a different perspective than the usual Korean text but that book is impossible to find for a somewhat reasonable price.
 
I have almost finished AngelMaker by Nick Harkaway and it is amazing! I cannot wait to read Gone Away World and the short story he published along side of Angelmaker.
 

Salazar

Member
Currently reading Horus Heresy book 4 Flight of the Eisenstein which is pretty much the exact same formula as the first three books...for those that have read them do the story beats ever change? I have the fifth one, Fulgrim I think, which at least sounds different from reading the back.

A Thousand Suns and Battle For The Abyss are super fucking cool. And slightly different from the pattern and chronology of the others.

Reading George L. Goodwin's Rhetoric as Social Imagination. Outstanding book. Supremely goddamn lucid scholarly exposition in a field where he knows motherfuckers want to jump all over anything he ventures.
 

Monroeski

Unconfirmed Member
oz_set_of_books.jpg


Working my way through these right now. Just finished A Song of Ice and Fire and wanted something simple and whimsical to read through. (Though they can get pretty dark, sheesh.)

Always wanted to read them, figured now was a good time. Picked them all up on Kindle for a $1, good deal.

Seeing those awesome old editions of the book in the same post as "Picked them all up on Kindle for a $1" makes me feel a bit sad.
 

Clott

Member
Man, I'd love to revisit the Imjin War from a different perspective than the usual Korean text but that book is impossible to find for a somewhat reasonable price.

The book was expensive!! But it's worth it for what it is, I don't mind spending some cash on something I really want.
 

Keen

Aliens ate my babysitter
NkDPn.jpg


I've been reading the Jack Reacher series by Lee Child this past month, I'm currenly in the first half of "The hard way" and finally the time frame seems to catch up to a moderm era, I always find it kind of funny reading about computers as if they were still something from science fiction and all the trouble they go to investigate something in a library etc.

But finally now everybody has a cellphones (altough they are still far from smartphones), the cases are getting better and more interesting with every book, the main character Jack Reacher still has some surprises to give and I'm not even started to get bored.

I saw the trailer from the movie a couple days ago and think that Cruise is a very bad choice for a character that has always been described more like Dolph Lundgren but whatever.

It'll probably take me another month to finish the series and will see what I'll be reading next.

Movie what? Tom Cruise what? Why is Reacher being played by someone half his size?
Other than that, the trailer looked pretty good, and Cruise was pretty bad ass in it (we know he be that), so cautiously optimistic!



Finally finished Legacy of Kings, and now on to the Stars my Destination.
 
1-1.jpg


This thing is freaking insane!!!! I love it, I am glad I am finally getting to read it. I wonder what manga I will hop on after I catch up on this one. I just finished Sakamichi no Apollon and that one also really blew me away.

Prepare to become depressed when you reach the current arc of Berserk, and you realize the author takes three months to produce a single chapter.
 

Sleepy

Member
Wall of text

If you know nothing about Slothrop (except that he fucks "a lot of people") by the end, or by when he disappears, then you really didn't pay attention. Is it the same things you learn about an 18th-19th century realist/modernist literary character? No, and that's the point. I don't understand why you insist on reading this text through an old interpretational paradigm, and then call the text shit for failing to live up to those standards (which it obviously challenges). I'm sorry that you didn't understand/see it, but I would say that it's your fault, rather than Pynchon's. And to say that his play is ultimately formless sludge again misses the point, or what Pynchon is putting in its place. But honestly, your criticism is boring, recycled whining about the difficulty of postmodernism, which you blame on academics for hoisting/popularizing (?) this type of writing on the reading public. :Yawn:

And how could you not see my Monty Python reference in my last post?
 
If you know nothing about Slothrop (except that he fucks "a lot of people") by the end, or by when he disappears, then you really didn't pay attention.

He's a thinly-limned cipher of a character. What little we learn of his past tells us little of who he is as a person or why we should be following him around. He's practically a blank canvas - barely any personality, no insight, nothing. I've been paying close attention the entire book, waiting for something, ANYTHING to give me something of depth, something to make me care about the character on any level. He's not a character - he's Pynchon's boring, academic abstraction that he can use to make his utterly banal, cardboard-thin philosophical and sociopolitical points.

Is it the same things you learn about an 18th-19th century realist/modernist literary character? No, and that's the point.

Again, whether or not it's "the point" is immaterial. I'm not arguing against the fact that it's "new." What I'm saying is that it's bad, regardless of what paradigm it's working in.

I don't understand why you insist on reading this text through an old interpretational paradigm, and then call the text shit for failing to live up to those standards (which it obviously challenges). I'm sorry that you didn't understand/see it, but I would say that it's your fault, rather than Pynchon's.

It doesn't "challenge" anything. I'm not reading it through any particular paradigm, except the one that says that interesting and good writing has to be happening in a book for me to give a shit about it. I gave you SEVERAL postmodern/metafictive works that don't follow realist/modernist structures or patterns that work, but you insist on strawmanning my argument by acting like I'm not addressing the book on its own terms, when in fact I haven't addressed the book on ANY terms other than qualitative ones. Hell, even White Teeth - which I thought was kinda mediocre, though entertaining at times - has a better grasp of how to incorporate postmodernity into a narrative structure.

And to say that his play is ultimately formless sludge again misses the point, or what Pynchon is putting in its place. But honestly, your criticism is boring, recycled whining about the difficulty of postmodernism, which you blame on academics for hoisting/popularizing (?) this type of writing on the reading public. :Yawn:

More arguing of what Pynchon's "point" was. I see a book with four sections, each of which makes its "point" within the first dozen or so pages but goes on nevertheless with a bunch of short episodes that build nothing dramatically, offer no real insight into the characters or the situations in which they find themselves (save the occasional nice line or paragraph, which I do grant to the author in spite of himself) - thereby making the pages a chore to read, no matter what "mode" Pynchon happens to be writing in, beat every joke into the ground, obsess over the minutia of various and sundry sexual fetishes, includes excess modifiers and cliche images in 99/100 paragraphs (a major flaw in construction that one can't just handwave away by saying that Pynchon is "challenging conventions"), and has nothing of value to offer, creatively or intellectually

I'm not whining about the "difficulty" of postmodernism. I'm saying that once you get past the density of the prose (and "dense" does not mean the same thing as difficult (or complex, for that matter)), what Pynchon is "putting in its place" is laughably, transparently simplistic, lacking the sort of imagination and creativity that make literature worthwhile in the first place. I blame it on Academia and on a critical establishment that isn't willing to be truly critical, falling easily for such smoke and mirrors while ignoring the manifest flaws at almost every level of its construction, from the many cliches and poor modifiers in the prose, to the unfathomably large cast of skin-deep characters whose calculated "quirkiness" substitutes for actual development, meandering scenes, and a dated, early-70s paranoia over the nature of the individual's relationship to the system (and even if ALL of this is tongue-in-cheek on Pynchon's part, that's not enough to sustain even a book-length narrative, let alone 760 pages.

I have no problem with obfuscation - Hart Crane wrote beautiful, great poetry that is very difficult to understand on first glance - but there has to be something rewarding when you go back and unpack the difficulty. With Pynchon, you realize early on that such unpacking isn't worth the time or the effort, and isn't even truly necessary most of the time, anyway - what you see really IS what you get.
 

Lamel

Banned
Loved the first half, not so much the second. I'm not sure whether it's just that my patience ran out or the quality of the writing really did drop off.

The first half was very fast paced, sort of like the ramblings of a person's mind
I keep thinking as if Andrew is actually the person writing about himself, I don't know, it just seems like whatever goes on in his head is written down on the paper

The second half
Ellen's story
seems to be relatively normal in terms of writing, which is why I think it loses some of the appeal.

However I still have around 40 pages to go. Overall, I have surprisingly enjoyed the novel so far. Very fast read, fun in a weird way, and actually made me chuckle a few times.

Edit: Just finished Eeeee Eee Eeee. I did enjoy it in a weird sort of way. It really has no progression, it is a story about a 20 something, and nothing really happens to him; he is depressed. The book is at times very whimsical, and at times pretentious and hard to understand. It is sort of a comedy as well, and will make you chuckle at least. After all that, I do recommend you read it though, it isn't that long and is a fast read.
 

Lamel

Banned
So onto a new novel, I was thinking between these two...

The Picture of Dorian Gray
- Oscar Wilde

or

The Republic - Plato


Any impressions on these? Maybe help me decide which one to start first?
 
Finished this baby up. Really well done sequel, cant wait for the 3rd in the series.
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Just couldn't take the
Avasarala character seriously. The massive amounts of swearing was just too over the top. Probably could've conveyed her tough character traits way better than swearing.
 

Piecake

Member
So onto a new novel, I was thinking between these two...

The Picture of Dorian Gray
- Oscar Wilde

or

The Republic - Plato


Any impressions on these? Maybe help me decide which one to start first?

The picture of Dorian Gray

Its really well written and entertaining.
 

Arment

Member
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Decided re-try this series. Someone told me the first book is kind of choppy and then the rest get better so I'm working my way through it now. I like it. I can see Stephen Erikson got a lot of his inspiration from this book.
 
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