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[hadareud]

I agree with Brot to a great extent. The Surface line should be about introducing something new, different (or aspirational in bullshit lingo).

This laptop is no doubt a good laptop, but there's plenty of similar devices already out there. It may even sell well, but imo that wouldn't be a good thing since it would literally eat into the sales of their OEMs whereas the other Surface devices created a market for them to sell in.

I also agree on the OS part. The S version should be for education and cheap devices only. Having it power one of their premium devices makes no sense at all (and they must know this, otherwise they wouldn't offer a free upgrade to W10 Pro). They are sending out a very confused message. People were expecting Chromebooks from Microsoft and their OEMs at Chromebook prices. Those things exist or will exist, but they buried that news and their push for education under a 1100 Euro laptop that shouldn't have anything to do with that (if it should exist at all).

They shouldn't give the people what they want with Surface, that's what their OEM's are for. They should create something that their OEMs measure themselves against. The laptop isn't that.

 

[gamz]

What's funny is they did surprise. People went in thinking a cheap Chromebook type of device and they blew it out with a ultrathin high end laptop. So they did surprise. Lol

 

[clav]

Meh. Execution falls flat though.

I don't understand what is special about opening the laptop with one finger. Just looks uncomfortable to write/touch compared to a $300 laptop that does the same thing.

Unit wobbles. What exactly is premium about that when other Surface products don't do that?

 

[brotkasten]

A lot of people have been asking for MS to make this ever since the Surface line came out. We will see if the sales are good. I don't know why you are so angry about it. There's​ other choices in the Surface line if it doesn't suite your needs or other OEMs. *Shrugs*

I'm not angry, I simply expect Microsoft to do better. You said the Surface Laptop was needed and I've yet to see any evidence of that. What new category does the Surface Laptop define? How does it innovate? What's the USP? Where is the great pen experience? Because these things are what define the Surface brand. Look at the Surface Pro, a high-quality, premium convertible Windows tablet with pen input. Look at the Surface Book, a high-quality, premium laptop with a detachable tablet screen and pen input. And look at the Surface Studio, a high-quality All-in-one PC, with a fantastic screen, foldable stand and pen input. Look at them and tell me that the Laptop doesn't stand out as the odd one out.

Or even look at what Satya Nadella just said about new phones with Windows.

"We're making sure that all of our software is available on iOS and Android and it's first class, and we're looking for what's the next change in form and function. What we've done with Surface is a good example. No one before us thought of 2-in-1s, and we created that category and made it a successful category to the point where there are more 2-in-1s coming. And that's what we want to do. So when you say we'll make more phones, I'm sure we'll make more phones, but they will not look like phones that are there today."

That's the mentality that's expected from that team and that's what should be expected from every Surface device. That's why the laptop is a disappointment. Anyone could've made that thing.

Not to mention that the Surface Pro 4 i5/8/256GB configuration is 100€ cheaper than the SL with the same configuration. Other retailers here even throw in a keyboard for that price.

 

[clav]

I guess if you're digging for something special, laptop has sound coming out of the keyboard keys.

Other than that, considering there are a number of manufacturers with premium laptops in that price range, it doesn't really do anything new unless you have a Surface Pen + Dial lying around.

Whatever Surface Phone Microsoft produces has to work with these accessories.

 

[hadareud]

I still think that the phone will look like a phone, no matter what he says.

I don't think the foldable phone thing will happen any time soon and perhaps for the lack of imagination, I don't see anything other than a square screen with a camera at the back coming from them.

Feature wise, sure, it'll be different. Looks wise, it'll be a small Surface imo.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

I would definitely prefer the Pro line over the Laptop. Still I beautiful device.

Curious to see what happens at Build. I'm not sure what to think of Project Neon so far. It is still early, but so far I'm not sure if I like it.

 

[derFeef]

So Laptop replace Pro?
I just compared... Except the screen a Razer Blade edges out the Laptop in most cases and is gaming capable even. I like the look of the Laptop more for sure though, very sexy.

 

[LukasTaves]

I agree with Brot to a great extent. The Surface line should be about introducing something new, different (or aspirational in bullshit lingo).

This laptop is no doubt a good laptop, but there's plenty of similar devices already out there. It may even sell well, but imo that wouldn't be a good thing since it would literally eat into the sales of their OEMs whereas the other Surface devices created a market for them to sell in.

I also agree on the OS part. The S version should be for education and cheap devices only. Having it power one of their premium devices makes no sense at all (and they must know this, otherwise they wouldn't offer a free upgrade to W10 Pro). They are sending out a very confused message. People were expecting Chromebooks from Microsoft and their OEMs at Chromebook prices. Those things exist or will exist, but they buried that news and their push for education under a 1100 Euro laptop that shouldn't have anything to do with that (if it should exist at all).

They shouldn't give the people what they want with Surface, that's what their OEM's are for. They should create something that their OEMs measure themselves against. The laptop isn't that.

I think the point of the device is clear.

It feels the void of the surface lineup by providing a more common device that people won't be afraid to try.

It comes with Win10 S which is a very non subtle way to push the win store.

In short, it's the "most desirable" surface device yet (as regular laptops still sells more than the surface devices) that pushes the win store. If they make that a device that the market loves the store benefits from that.

It wouldn't surprise me if the whole 2017 refresh of the surface devices is tied to win10S, with a limited upgrade offer for early adopters.

 

[Vyer]

$1000 standard laptop with ok specs for the price range that you have to upgrade to get your full OS isn't really a "common device" more people will try, tho

 

[hadareud]

I think the point of the device is clear.

It feels the void of the surface lineup by providing a more common device that people won't be afraid to try.

It comes with Win10 S which is a very non subtle way to push the win store.

In short, it's the "most desirable" surface device yet (as regular laptops still sells more than the surface devices) that pushes the win store. If they make that a device that the market loves the store benefits from that.

It wouldn't surprise me if the whole 2017 refresh of the surface devices is tied to win10S, with a limited upgrade offer for early adopters.

But that's the thing, the gap in the Surface lineup is not a gap in the market. As far as I understood they came up with Surface to create new markets and to create reference devices for their OEMs to live up to. I think that was a good strategy and they succeeded with it, too. The laptop does neither.

I wouldn't be surprised if it outsold all other Surface devices, but that wouldn't be a good thing.

As for Windows S, yeah, I can see why they'd very like that. But I doubt that the market will accept it, not as long as they store situation is as it is. And I doubt that it will persuade Google to put Chrome in the store and I don't think iTunes will show up in the store anytime soon either. Before that happens S is not viable for anything other than the education market imo.

 

[Steelyuhas]

lol I cant help but roll my eyes when he said we are making phones now, oem like HP making phones.

You need to fix the OS Satya, fix the god damn windows 10 mobile

It's dead Jim, dead.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Once my Groove subscription runs out and if the app is still broken I'm gonna have to switch to Spotify. Too many download errors and album issues I didn't have on Win10.

 

[BeforeU]

It's dead Jim, dead.

I know it is... Thats what I am saying before commenting on Hardware. Fucking fix the software

 

[VanMardigan]

Damn, what city?

San Antonio

 

[brotkasten]

MS pushed a new insider build for PC and phones out today.

Change Log for Mobile:

Changes, improvements, and fixes for Mobile

• We fixed an issue with the Glance screen where the time was not updating.
• We fixed the token issue so when your device syncs to the service, text messages should show back up.

Known issues for Mobile

• The copyright date is incorrect under Settings > System > About. It shows as 2016 when it should be 2017. Thanks to the Windows Insiders that reported this!
• In some cases, the WeChat app may crash on launch.

Maybe Mobile really is in maintenance mode... 🤔

 

[VanMardigan]

I told you guys. But because Microsoft hasn't put out a press release, people want to be in denial.

 

[HarryDemeanor]

While I've been enjoying my iPhone 6S, I really miss the Windows Phone UI.

If only the apps were there.

 

[lastflowers]

I told you guys. But because Microsoft hasn't put out a press release, people want to be in denial.

I just cant imagine that MS leaves phone for good. Though that makes me even more worried....

 

[VanMardigan]

I just cant imagine that MS leaves phone for good. Though that makes me even more worried....

That wasn't the report. MS will continue making phones but the OS will be rebooted for the fourth time or whatever into Windows on arm and current devices are left with no upgrade path (again) and the OS they run (windows 10 mobile) will only get maintenance updates.

 

[clav]

Another hardware event this month?

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Another hardware event this month?

This should be the Surface Pro refresh.

 

[lastflowers]

That wasn't the report. MS will continue making phones but the OS will be rebooted for the fourth time or whatever into Windows on arm and current devices are left with no upgrade path (again) and the OS they run (windows 10 mobile) will only get maintenance updates.

God damn it if true

 

[Steelyuhas]

This should be the Surface Pro refresh.

SP5 and potentially SB2 announced at an event in China? I would be surprised.

 

[derFeef]

I can't tell from that patchnotes why it's supposed to be in maintenance mode? Someone enlighten me please.

 

[BeforeU]

That wasn't the report. MS will continue making phones but the OS will be rebooted for the fourth time or whatever into Windows on arm and current devices are left with no upgrade path (again) and the OS they run (windows 10 mobile) will only get maintenance updates.

I w9uodnt call it a reboot. Windows Mobile is just dead, they will just add cellular functionality in Windows S and put that into small form factor

 

[hwalker84]

That wasn't the report. MS will continue making phones but the OS will be rebooted for the fourth time or whatever into Windows on arm and current devices are left with no upgrade path (again) and the OS they run (windows 10 mobile) will only get maintenance updates.

LMAO if true... Final nail in the coffin.

 

[NeOak]

I can't tell from that patchnotes why it's supposed to be in maintenance mode? Someone enlighten me please.

Looks like a PSP firmware update

 

[lastflowers]

Whelp, new game came out, time to update the PSP.

---Then, time to update the custom firmware!

 

[LukasTaves]

That wasn't the report. MS will continue making phones but the OS will be rebooted for the fourth time or whatever into Windows on arm and current devices are left with no upgrade path (again) and the OS they run (windows 10 mobile) will only get maintenance updates.

It won't be as drastic this time because most devices are already out of creators update (despite the insider builds bringing tons of improvements to speed and stability on those devices), and there are no newish devices that are going to get cut.

Also, the new OS will likely support both win mobile 8 apps and uwp apps, so nothing is lost on the app front, and current developers creating uwp apps won't have to change to another completely different thing like it was going from Silverlight and XNA to winrt.

 

[bigJP]

w10 mobile needs to be dropped until they can get proper app support. i dont know, partner with samsung or something

 

[brotkasten]

It won't be as drastic this time because most devices are already out of creators update (despite the insider builds bringing tons of improvements to speed and stability on those devices), and there are no newish devices that are going to get cut.

Also, the new OS will likely support both win mobile 8 apps and uwp apps, so nothing is lost on the app front, and current developers creating uwp apps won't have to change to another completely different thing like it was going from Silverlight and XNA to winrt.

Another reboot is yet another blow. How is it not drastic? Which regular consumer would buy into that ecosystem? Don't you think that reviews will likely mention that this is their fourth try? Why would anyone give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt at this point?

This year it's going to be 7 years since the launch of Windows Phone 7 and the app platform still doesn't have an official Youtube app. I don't care how much praise MetroTube gets (it's garbage on my Surface, btw), but not having a meaningful amount of official apps is just a bad, bad look for any consumer. "I don't need it! 3rd party works great!" is beside the point. When you open the Store app, search for YouTube and get greeted with "Tubecast for YouTube", Hyper for YouTube" and "WinTube for YouTube", it looks really bad. There's no way of spinning this.

 

[LukasTaves]

Another reboot is yet another blow. How is it not drastic? Which regular consumer would buy into that ecosystem? Don't you think that reviews will likely mention that this is their fourth try? Why would anyone give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt at this point?

This year it's going to be 7 years since the launch of Windows Phone 7 and the app platform still doesn't have an official Youtube app. I don't care how much praise MetroTube gets (it's garbage on my Surface, btw), but not having a meaningful amount of official apps is just a bad, bad look for any consumer. "I don't need it! 3rd party works great!" is beside the point. When you open the Store app, search for YouTube and get greeted with "Tubecast for YouTube", Hyper for YouTube" and "WinTube for YouTube", it looks really bad. There's no way of spinning this.

I agree with you, I said not as drastic as the previous ones, not that it isn't drastic at all. But the platform is all but abandoned at this moment I don't think it can get much worse without actually being killed, so in that sense yet another reboot isn't going to impact all that much.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

If they do another phone is pretty much has to run Android and be on carriers.

Ive been trying the Spotify free trial. I like it except for downloading individual songs is a bit of a pain.

 

[The Faceless Master]

It's still crazy sitting on the sidelines seeing them gear up to pull this crap again.

The only reason I even went to Android was the first platform dump from 6.5 to 7.


<3 HTC Titan

 

[Astral/H3X]

I'd like to see them just port WP10 to Android. Except not shitty.

 

[VanMardigan]

What is there of w10 mobile that needs porting? Everything is better on the Android side except for interface and possibly texting and sounds. They should work on a custom interface, port the keyboard and sounds and release an Android phone. I was going to say that they should try to make the windows store work but there is no point when every mobile app is better on Android. Maybe for continuum?

 

[maeh2k]

I just cant imagine that MS leaves phone for good. Though that makes me even more worried....

Trying to (re-)launch a third platform in 2017+ against iPhone/Android would be insane.

If Microsoft want to be successful in Mobile, they need to find a way to be successful on iOS/Android. The former Windows monopoly didn't stop Google et al from thriving on the platform.

I doubt we'll see a full-on disruption of the mobile market anytime soon. For most up-and-coming new technologies like AR, VR, IoT, ... Microsoft is at a major disadvantage since the technologies will inevitably revolve around mobile.

If Microsoft really want to further pursue phones, though, I'd like to see them go for a fully virtual/cloud phone/PC. With Continuum and UWP they've already made some steps where the hardware no longer mandates what the device is used for -- why couldn't it run on any screen around you, use any sensors around you, use any input method around you? And why would that need to be some small black slab in your pocket?Obviously, mobile internet isn't quite up to the task yet, but you never know when that might change. Might be interesting to have e.g. a virtual work phone on your iOS/Android device in a BYOD world.

 

[brotkasten]

What annoys me is that Microsoft is not even leveraging whatever integration they could have between Android and Windows 10. They have this great Trojan horse with Cortana, which is still only available in the US, and they could pull and push all kinds of things between the devices. I can already sync whatever app notifications I want between Android and the Action Center on Windows. I can reply to WhatsApp and Telegram messages, dismiss notifications on my phone from my PC and at some point even write texts from my PC, until they removed it again for a Skype equivalent function that never came. I feel like it could be even more. Give me full music controls. Let me pick up voice calls and play voice mails on my PC. Give me everything Apple is already doing anyway.

I certainly wouldn't be against Microsoft taking over my phone to integrate it better with my PCs. Just do it!

 

[SCHUEY F1]

What annoys me is that Microsoft is not even leveraging whatever integration they could have between Android and Windows 10. They have this great Trojan horse with Cortana, which is still only available in the US, and they could pull and push all kinds of things between the devices. I can already sync whatever app notifications I want between Android and the Action Center on Windows. I can reply to WhatsApp and Telegram messages, dismiss notifications on my phone from my PC and at some point even write texts from my PC, until they removed it again for a Skype equivalent function that never came. I feel like it could be even more. Give me full music controls. Let me pick up voice calls and play voice mails on my PC. Give me everything Apple is already doing anyway.

I certainly wouldn't be against Microsoft taking over my phone to integrate it better with my PCs. Just do it!

Yup. Would be nice if they brought up some more Android integration at Build.

 

[VanMardigan]

I remember using that Cortana thing with the messaging on action center before they neutered it, it was pretty sweet.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Trying to (re-)launch a third platform in 2017+ against iPhone/Android would be insane.

If Microsoft want to be successful in Mobile, they need to find a way to be successful on iOS/Android. The former Windows monopoly didn't stop Google et al from thriving on the platform.

I doubt we'll see a full-on disruption of the mobile market anytime soon. For most up-and-coming new technologies like AR, VR, IoT, ... Microsoft is at a major disadvantage since the technologies will inevitably revolve around mobile.

If Microsoft really want to further pursue phones, though, I'd like to see them go for a fully virtual/cloud phone/PC. With Continuum and UWP they've already made some steps where the hardware no longer mandates what the device is used for -- why couldn't it run on any screen around you, use any sensors around you, use any input method around you? And why would that need to be some small black slab in your pocket?Obviously, mobile internet isn't quite up to the task yet, but you never know when that might change. Might be interesting to have e.g. a virtual work phone on your iOS/Android device in a BYOD world.

If Microsoft want to be successful in Mobile, they need to find a way to travel back in time.

 

[juliushandle]

If Microsoft want to be successful in Mobile, they need to find a way to travel back in time.

Easier than getting devs to support Windows Mobile.

 

[clav]

Looks like gamz flew too close to the sun.

they need to find a way to travel back in time.

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[kharma45]

If Microsoft want to be successful in Mobile, they need to find a way to travel back in time.

They had their chance to make a reasonable success of it when phones like the 520 were selling well and getting a reputation of good, solid devices. Of course though why capitalise on good work when you can just balls it up as usual?

 

[Steelyuhas]

Messaging via Cortana with an Android phone still works, still salty they killed messaging on PC in favor of Skype though.

 

[Paganmoon]

Have to say, biggest thing I've missed so far is the photos app. just the little thing of being able to easily browse through my photos by date. The Onedrive app on Android sorts them by date, but I can't press the date to easily scroll back to a specific month or year.

 

[brotkasten]

Have to say, biggest thing I've missed so far is the photos app. just the little thing of being able to easily browse through my photos by date. The Onedrive app on Android sorts them by date, but I can't press the date to easily scroll back to a specific month or year.

That's probably the best and worst part about Android. Whenever I want to open a photo or video, I get prompted by 8 different apps I want to use and like the idiot I am, I don't want to set any of them as the default app, because I might want to use a different one for a different purpose 3 months from now, which is not going to happen. So instead of finally setting the Google Photos or Samsung Gallery app as default, I'll forever be annoyed by the selection of apps that can open photos or videos.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Have to say, biggest thing I've missed so far is the photos app. just the little thing of being able to easily browse through my photos by date. The Onedrive app on Android sorts them by date, but I can't press the date to easily scroll back to a specific month or year.

Yeah I wish they would port the photos app and also make Groove not suck. Been playing with Spotify, but it has some annoying stuff as well.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Tom Warren is hyping tomorrow's Build keynote. Should be interesting.