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[SiteSeer]

Why don't you address my points instead of just calling me racist

we're calling you out not because iron man is more popular than the monkey king but because you seem to conflate that into proof that chinese culture is creatively inferior to western culture. never mind that the han chinese is but one culture and western culture is an amalgamation of many cultures. thus making your opinions ignorant and racist.

 

[sant]

You were being serious? Are you really REALLY suggesting that a country with the population of China lacks creativity overall? Thats.... staggeringly ignorant.

Now maybe they may need improvements to help the creative folks stand out and achieve the success they deserve, but there's just no way you can label an entire race of people as creatively inferior, that's just...

dude what?

China's willingness to engage with emerging markets has likely improved its image in those regions. While only 38 percent of Americans and 41 percent of Europeans view China favorably, more than half of Africans (70 percent) and Latin Americans (57 percent) see China in a positive light, according to 2015 Pew Research Center surveys.

Yet few people in those developing nations have fallen in love with China the way they might fall in love with the United States. This is largely because China's pop culture lacks emotional, artistic, or sex appeal. A 2013 Pew survey found that just 25 percent of Latin Americans and 34 percent of Africans have favorable opinions of Chinese music, movies, or television, while more than half view U.S. cultural products favorably.

It's an old maxim that trying too hard to be cool backfires. Just look at the Chinese Communist Party, which has been flummoxed by the question of how to improve its cultural image. China's top-down efforts to expand soft power gained momentum in 2007, when the Party's then-General Secretary Hu Jintao announced that China needed to ”vigorously develop the cultural industry" and to ”enhance the industry's international competitiveness." In June 2016, Hu's successor, Xi Jinping, criticized the nation's propaganda bureau for failing to reach younger audiences and called on them to be more innovative

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/08...soft-power-beijing-censorship-generation-gap/

 

[Qvoth]

off-topic, but you guys should check out nirvana in fire
i'm someone who doesn't even watch chinese tv (i'm chinese), but i find this to be an incredible show
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_in_Fire

 

[sant]

we're calling you out not because iron man is more popular than the monkey king but because you seem to conflate that into proof that chinese culture is creatively inferior to western culture. never mind that the han chinese is but one culture and western culture is an amalgamation of many cultures. thus making your opinions ignorant and racist.

It is inferior if nobody cares about it outside their own country and they are afraid of cultural influence from the outside. Are you telling me they don't have a serious problem when someone with deep pockets like Wanda can't complete with Disney in his own country?

The Communist party is afraid of Western cultural dominance and has taken measures that I have laid out in this thread.

 

[massoluk]

off-topic, but you guys should check out nirvana in fire
i'm someone who doesn't even watch chinese tv (i'm chinese), but i find this to be an incredible show
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_in_Fire

That was random, but I read the bloody book

 

[Qvoth]

btw the chinese goverment has just announced they're clamping down on the big chinese companies that are investing heavily in other countries
wanda is one of them
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcai...esident-xi-blesses-ma-crackdown/#a4a2f26b1a3e

 

[massoluk]

They killed their own culture after the cultural revolution.

Why do you think J-pop and K-pop are way more popular than Chinese music?

Why does no one care about Chinese cinema outside of China?

Why do Chinese video games fail to penetrate outside of China?

The Chinese that resisted and wanted to be free thinking fled to the west or were silenced

Hahahaha, wow. You have no idea, you have no bloody idea

 

[sant]

Hahahaha, wow. You have no idea, you have no bloody idea

Show me some fucking numbers then. I have provided plenty in this thread

 

[SiteSeer]

It is inferior if nobody cares about it outside their own country and they are afraid of cultural influence from the outside. Are you telling me they don't have a serious problem when someone with deep pockets like Wanda can't complete with Disney in his own country?

The Communist party is afraid of Western cultural dominance and has taken measures that I have laid out in this thread.

i suppose arguing popularity as a measure of creative superiority is a waste of time. by that i mean your opinions are not very popular and are therefore inferior (by your own yardstick) so i'll see myself out of this ridiculous conversation.

and remember imitation is the highest form of flattery, unless you're imitating me and then it's theft you creatively bankrupt copier!

 

[sant]

i suppose arguing popularity as a measure of creative superiority is a waste of time. by that i mean your opinions are not very popular and are therefore inferior (by your own yardstick) so i'll see myself out of this ridiculous conversation.

and remember imitation is the highest form of flattery, unless you're imitating me and then it's theft you creatively bankrupt copier!

The last two leaders of China disagree with you and have said so publicly

But no, keep on calling me racist. That will definitely change the facts and warp reality.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

Show me some fucking numbers then. I have provided plenty in this thread

92 million worldwide.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Flying_Daggers

213 million worldwide

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crouching_Tiger,_Hidden_Dragon


Nobody cares about Chinese movies outside of China right?

 

[El Topo]

The arguments presented by sant get even more outrageous once you apply them to other countries. It's not that there's no sliver of truth buried in your posts, it's that you've gone way, way, way overboard.

 

[massoluk]

Show me some fucking numbers then. I have provided plenty in this thread

My country has a channel dedicated to Chinese drama 24/7

We have a magazine dedicated to Chinese pop stars

The best selling novels in the countries are translated Chinese novels

 

[sant]

92 million worldwide.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Flying_Daggers

213 million worldwide

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crouching_Tiger,_Hidden_Dragon


Nobody cares about Chinese movies outside of China right?

A Hindi movie made $191 million in China alone this year

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=intl&id=dangal.htm

Colombia pictures had a hand in producing Crouching tiger and the sequel to the movie was in English dude. What does that say?

Congrats, you cherry picked 2 examples from more than 10 years ago

 

[dreamcastmaster]

A Hindi movie made $191 million in China alone this year

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=intl&id=dangal.htm

Colombia pictures had a hand in producing Crouching tiger and the sequel to the movie was in English dude. What does that say?

Congrats, you cherry picked 2 examples from more than 10 years ago

Predictable response. "It's old it doesn't count" and yet your initial argument cites the even older cultural revolution. You are aware how much Chinese investment goes into Hollywood blockbusters? So Crouching Tiger does not count against your argument because of Colombia assistance but your Marvel movies do count towards your argument becuse...

 

[massoluk]

A Hindi movie made $191 million in China alone this year

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=intl&id=dangal.htm

Colombia pictures had a hand in producing Crouching tiger and the sequel to the movie was in English dude. What does that say?

Congrats, you cherry picked 2 examples from more than 10 years ago

That Americans really craved Chinese culture enough that they bankrolled a sequel, thus defeating your own argument that no one care about Chinese culture?

 

[sant]

Predictable response. "It's old it doesn't count" and yet your initial argument cites the even older cultural revolution. You are aware how much Chinese investment goes into Hollywood blockbusters? So Crouching Tiger does not count against your argument because of Colombia assistance but your Marvel movies do count towards your argument becuse...

China in 2004 is 30 years behind where China is today. You should have 10+ more examples if you wanted your point to be relevant.

 

[Hierophant]

Lmao where did this anti Chinese screed come from?

 

[sant]

That Americans really craved Chinese culture enough that they bankrolled a sequel, thus defeating your own argument that no one care about Chinese culture?

It is one example dude. 6 of the top 10 grossing films in China this year are American, and Spiderman has not even premiered their yet.

 

[El Topo]

Lmao where did this anti Chinese screed come from?

It's not just anti-Chinese, sant is shitting on everyone other than the US.
This just in: Only one German movie among the top 10 movies in Germany for 2016. So much for the German culture. Well, we had a long run.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

The Chinese lack creativity and this situation makes it obvious

I bet you think Chinese students don't have critical thinking skills too huh.

 

[PhoenixRising]

China in 2004 is 30 years behind where China is today. You should have 10+ more examples if you wanted your point to be relevant.

A lot of Hollywood movies these days are co-productions with Chinese companies and target the Chinese market.

For example, look at Iron Man 3, Transformers 4, any Legendary Pictures movie as they're owned by Wanda, etc.

To be honest, I'm not really sure what you're arguing about? I don't think anyone disputes that the US has greater soft power than China. However, your general statement that China has no creativity is just patently false.

 

[Renekton]

Read the full article here: https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas...a-key-ingredient-blockbuster-films-1500561334

Pretty interesting article that shows the difference between US and China in a soft power-related field.

Remarkable even more, when you consider that Wanda Chairman Wang Jianlian said this last year:

What is with the DisneyVSChina narrative?

I thought this is not so much Wanda lost to Disney but because China (to cut down on financial exposure) clamped down super hard on Wanda's financing activities so they gotta sell off assets.

 

[Hierophant]

Actually the Chinese lack creativity due their brain gland for creativity being smaller compared to the white brain, it's easy let me get out my brain calipers here and show you, my many years of phrenology study cannot be refuted and in fact Asia as a whole is fundamentally bankrupt in morality and creativity

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Actually the Chinese lack creativity due their brain gland for creativity being smaller compared to the white brain, it's easy let me get out my brain calipers here and show you, my many years of phrenology study cannot be refuted and in fact Asia as a whole is fundamentally bankrupt in morality and creativity

Checkmate I suppose

 

[Christhor]

It's not just anti-Chinese, sant is shitting on everyone other than the US.
This just in: Only one German movie among the top 10 movies in Germany for 2016. So much for the German culture. Well, we had a long run.

Well, China has almost 17 times the population of Germany, so the former should be held to higher expectations than the latter.

 

[sant]

A lot of Hollywood movies these days are co-productions with Chinese companies and target the Chinese market.

For example, look at Iron Man 3, Transformers 4, any Legendary Pictures movie as they're owned by Wanda, etc.

To be honest, I'm not really sure what you're arguing about? I don't think anyone disputes that the US has greater soft power than China. However, your general statement that China has no creativity is just patently false.

They do this to be in the good graces of the Communist party and to tailor scenes for a Chinese audience. Much more likely for your film to get approved for distribution. Do you seriously think Hollywood wouldn't keep all the money if they could?

I am arguing that their top down society does not nurture popular culture that attracts a global audience. They can copy a cellphone or a car, but they can't replicate and export movies and music. People want to go to Disneyland to see Cars and Star Wars. The Communist party or Wanda cannot compete with Disney for hearts and minds.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

China in 2004 is 30 years behind where China is today.

You really really have no idea what you are talking about do you. Prove me wrong and without just posting a link, exactly what was China like in 2004? Was it all bicycles, steam trains and black and white movies? How did they live without the Internet or cellphones?

 

[Hierophant]

You really really have no idea what you are talking about do you. Prove me wrong and without just posting a link, exactly what was China like in 2004? Was it all bicycles, steam trains and black and white movies? How did they live without the Internet or cellphones?

Actually as Sinologist I can tell you around this time in Beijing they lived in the Forbidden City. All of the population of China actually.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

It's not just anti-Chinese, sant is shitting on everyone other than the US.
This just in: Only one German movie among the top 10 movies in Germany for 2016. So much for the German culture. Well, we had a long run.

If Germany hadn't burned all those books just think where you'd be now! J/k

 

[Hierophant]

Oh wow when prompted for evidence beyond posting a link without context he suddenly disappears after typing furiously for like half an hour I wonder why

 

[Lucumo]

If Germany hadn't burned all those books just think where you'd be now! J/k

Considering what the US and Russia did to Germany, I would say it's doing decently well (in several aspects).

Anyway, sad to see Wanda caving in so fast. I had hoped they would do better.

 

[sant]

You really really have no idea what you are talking about do you. Prove me wrong and without just posting a link, exactly what was China like in 2004? Was it all bicycles, steam trains and black and white movies? How did they live without the Internet or cellphones?

China in 2004 was irrelevant to Hollywood. Now they are building a new movie theatre every day. China's economy was 10x smaller than it was today. You are the one who has no clue what you are talking about. Do some research next time.

 

[PhoenixRising]

Considering what the US and Russia did to Germany, I would say it's doing decently well (in several aspects).

Anyway, sad to see Wanda caving in so fast. I had hoped they would do better.

As Renekton pointed out, this is not really Wanda caving but more because they need money due to the Chinese government stopping banks from lending to Wanda.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

China in 2004 was irrelevant to Hollywood. Now they are building a new movie theatre every day. China's economy was 10x smaller than it was today. You are the one who has no clue what you are talking about. Do some research next time.

That's it?

 

[sant]

That's it?

Can you not grasp the implications? 10x growth for a population of 1.3 billion means 200+ million new middle class people. That is transformational. Trillions of dollars in wealth created in a decade. China used more concrete in 2 years than the US in the entire 20th century. If you can't comprehend that, then there is no reasoning with you. Just call me racist and ignore the facts.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

Can you not grasp the implications? 10x growth for a population of 1.3 billion means 200+ million new middle class people. That is transformational. Trillions of dollars in wealth created in a decade. China used more concrete in 2 years than the US in the entire 20th century. If you can't comprehend that, then there is no reasoning with you. Just call me racist and ignore the facts.

Ni shi feicheng ben dan.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Funny enough, if you ask a lot of people in Orlando how they feel about the Shanghai park, they aren't much more happy than Wanda about it, lol.

Well thats mainly due to pre-D23 so much in the Florida Parks needed new stuff or heavy renovations.
Shanghai Disney is viewed by American Disney enthusiasts as a money sink while also taking all the great ride ideas for a park 99% of them will never go to.
Just look at the Tron coaster or their incredible version of Pirates of the Caribbean compared to all the others in the world.

Which is kinda understandable because if you look back you can see how the initial failure of Disneyland Paris killed loads of stuff off from the American parks.

 

[sant]

Ni shi feicheng ben dan.

What a compelling argument.

 

[Lucumo]

As Renekton pointed out, this is not really Wanda caving but more because they need money due to the Chinese government stopping banks from lending to Wanda.

Ah, ok, didn't see that one since the discussion trailed off a bit and I stopped looking over the posts then.

 

[lightskintwin]

I remember reading plenty of articles about China and it's "copycat" culture and the reasons why it exists.

Incentives for copying outweighs the incentives for innovation.

An infrastructure for investment in innovation and entrepreneurs are still nascent and unreliable

Cultural tolerance for failure is still highly stigmatized

Corruption is rampant

Legal framework for ownership and equity is still vague.

If you are behind, the best way to get up to speed is to copy.

Lack of domestic competition breeds first-mover advantage to copy first.

 

[Kieli]

Edit: Welp, nevermind, he is calling it inferior. *shrugs*

Ni shi feicheng ben dan.

Niu rou chao fan hen hao chi.

 

[Llyranor]

So, Crouching Tiger is too old and doesn't count? But Mickey Mouse or Marvel IPs predating the Cultural Revolution are being used as examples for why the US is so far ahead in terms of creativity? Am I getting this right?