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WWE Network |OT| $9.99 PPVs, that's gonna put some butts in the seats

I

Into

Member
I have a bad feeling about this network, they better shoot a major angle to get people on board during WM season, because that is where the biggest uptake will happen.

And while nostalgia is great, eventually the hardcores will chew through all that content they find relevant, after 6 or 12 months, and then what? Then the only thing keeping them are the current PPV's.

I really do not see this hitting 1 million subs to break even, closer to 500k
 
Fox Mulder

Fox Mulder

Member
Heel said:
Dana White: WWE Network 'devalues' product; UFC will not follow suit

This is the kind of shit we have to deal with, Sunny. It will be funny to see him backtrack in a few years when the PPV model implodes and he's following in the footsteps of the world's best huckster, Vincent K. McMahon.
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Dana white says all kinds of dumb shit. He acted like he would hold a lifelong grudge against EA for some slight, only to sign a deal with them like a year later.

if this network works, plenty of companies will follow.
 
F

foltzie1

Member
Htown said:
isn't that the same shit EA said about Steam sales?
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To be fair, it is also what Vince McMahon would say if it was the UFC launching the network instead of the WWE, until he decided to start his own platform.

Dana seems to have based his public persona on that of Mr. McMahon and Donald Trump, so its consistent.
 
H

Hasney

Member
Mr.Swag said:
I can see wwe uploadin more old raw episodes every six months.
Can't just unload tens of thousands of hours on the first day launch. Slow roll
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Right, but they should go from the start and work forwards, not give us 2012-2013. Some good matches, but after the Nexus and Punk MITB parts, the story part of the product is really dull for those years.

Joeki11a said:
720p?

come on
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Almost all broadcast TV is 1080i so the vast majority of content would just be upscale anyway. Same with any streaming service, it's only as good as the quality of the content that it has to work with.
 
S

Sheroking

Member
kirblar said:
UFC is what WWE used to be. WWE lost a lot of people who want to watch/like the product over the years.
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This is pretty badly overstated.

WWE has pretty good TV deals and consistent, stable cable numbers. UFC has never managed that with a weekly program (initial success of The Ultimate Fighter faded a few years ago). WWE does more shows and has more gates.

Where UFC ate WWE's lunch was in PPV buyrates, and in fairness it looked pretty bad in 2010. Since then, however, the average buyrate has declined by almost 40% and UFC lost almost a third of their total worth, according to Forbes.

It's only going to get worse with both Silva and GSP gone. They haven't replaced a lot of their big name talent with casual viewers.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Sheroking said:
This is pretty badly overstated.

WWE has pretty good TV deals and consistent, stable cable numbers. UFC has never managed that with a weekly program (initial success of The Ultimate Fighter faded a few years ago). WWE does more shows and has more gates.

Where UFC ate WWE's lunch was in PPV buyrates, and in fairness it looked pretty bad in 2010. Since then, however, the average buyrate has declined by almost 40% and UFC lost almost a third of their total worth, according to Forbes.

It's only going to get worse with both Silva and GSP gone. They haven't replaced a lot of their big name talent with casual viewers.
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The bigger problem is that UFC has cannibalized themselves by putting out too much content. When there's a card every weekend, it's hard to get people to care. Same thing WWE did when they ran 15 PPVs a year.
 
S

SpideySenses

Member
If Vince was making the money Dana does on PPV, he wouldn't think of switching to the network for a second. Hell, it's not even like internet streaming was his first choice, what it's evolved into has happened out of necessity because Vince killed the other options.

And what happens if the network fails? They're now 100% a television company AKA fucking TNA.
 
S

Shadowlink

Member
SpideySenses said:
If Vince was making the money Dana does on PPV, he wouldn't think of switching to the network for a second. Hell, it's not even like internet streaming was his first choice, what it's evolved into has happened out of necessity because Vince killed the other options.

And what happens if the network fails? They're now 100% a television company AKA fucking TNA.
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Aren't they still releasing events on PPV?
 
F

foltzie1

Member
Shadowlink said:
Aren't they still releasing events on PPV?
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Yes, but you have to assume that someone who buys PPVs regularly wont buy them and the WWE Network, Still the revenue for the WWE from PPVs is ~$20, depending on their costs they may make up a decent chunk of the PPV profit.
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
What is a real goddamn shame is that WWE doesn't have the Mid-South stuff or any of the Memphis stuff.

Bill Watts' ex-wife was awarded the Mid-South tape library in their divorce setttlement and has pretty much been holding it hostage in exchange for Erik Watts getting a job there (lol).

The Memphis collection has been all divied up and no one knows who owns what anymore.
 
J

JavyOO7

Member
Hmm. I wish WWE would have PPVs how they were back then. Just Royal Rumble, SummerSlam, Wrestlemania and Survivor Series would be great. Thought KOTR was great too at times.

Maybe it is nostalgia, actually, I'm pretty sure its nostalgia, but I felt when WWE only had RAW, Superstars on the weekend and then a PPV every few months that their product was pretty strong.

I say its strong because if you are a writer in current WWE... look at all the non sense you have to write now. RAW, Smackdown, maybe NXT and the other off shot shows. A PPV almost every month. Geez. Cutting off tons of the fat would be beneficial for them I think. Though doesn't WWE still go crazy with their house show circuit? So the poor wrestlers hardly get a break and etc...

I'm very entitled. So I hope they have every single RAW right off the bat. =p
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
The cable providers get 60% of the PPV revenues. In 2012 the WWE had slightly less than 4 million PPV buys over 12 shows. They got ~$20 per PPV. (1.217 million of the PPV buys were Wrestlemania)

So someone spending $10 per month on the WWE network is giving them $120 per year.... which is the equivalent of 6 PPV buys under the old model.

If they can get 650k-700k people to subscribe to the WWE Network, they are breaking even, and they can more consistently analyze and predict their financials under this model, as well. This is assuming the traditional PPV buys completely vanish.

Even if they only get 100k subscribers, their new TV deal will more than cover the lost revenues. PPV is such a small portion of WWE's income stream nowadays.

Note that some cable providers have been increasing their shares of PPV revenues as of late - some events have the content producers only receive around 30% of the proceeds from DirectTV customers (as opposed to the traditional 40% #)
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
I really think the WWE Network could be a landmark moment for the television industry looking back in 10 years if it works out the way they want it to. All the talk about how people want content providers to sell their content a la carte so they can stop paying absurd prices to cable companies. To this point content providers have been timid and scared to go out on a limb and be the first to defy the business model that has worked so well for the past, well, ever. If WWE does this and it succeeds to a great degree, I really think you could see companies like HBO, Showtime, etc. trying this model out of allowing people to subscribe without cable. And I think that is why cable companies have been threatening WWE, because they know what success of this model could mean for them. That's why DirecTV came out against it, and why Dish isn't carrying Elimination Chamber. Cable companies are so scared of the OTT method, so they are praying that this fails.

Of course, I could be completely wrong, but that's how I see it.
 
Fox Mulder

Fox Mulder

Member
kirblar said:
The bigger problem is that UFC has cannibalized themselves by putting out too much content. When there's a card every weekend, it's hard to get people to care. Same thing WWE did when they ran 15 PPVs a year.
Click to expand...

that's why I fell out of mma. I loved it since the Pride days, but they bought everyone and flooded the calendar with events. It got hard to follow it and their stars only fight like once a year.
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
In case somebody doesn't know, starting in 2015, WrestleMania will not be involved in the WWE Network package (at least as of now). They are throwing WM30 in this year to drive up subscriptions.
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
Mr. Enigma said:
In case somebody doesn't know, starting in 2015, WrestleMania will not be involved in the WWE Network package (at least as of now). They are throwing WM30 in this year to drive up subscriptions.
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Source? (And not pre-announcement rumors, most of those weren't completely accurate)
 
D

Downhome

Member
Mr. Enigma said:
In case somebody doesn't know, starting in 2015, WrestleMania will not be involved in the WWE Network package (at least as of now). They are throwing WM30 in this year to drive up subscriptions.
Click to expand...

That hasn't been said at all. It's been speculated by everyone, but nothing from WWE has said anything about that.
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
serenewarfare said:
Source? (And not pre-announcement rumors, most of those weren't completely accurate)
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It was a part of the pre-announcement stuff, although so much stuff has already changed (such as now all the Raw and Smackdowns suddenly won't be available on-demand as previously promised) so who knows.
 
A

antonz

Member
Vince is betting on his new network deal more than anything with the network. He views the network as a potential break even with ppv style thing and heck if it brings in more that's cake.

He is gambling on Networks willing to double or more the WWE current TV deal and really bring in the bucks. of course he likely values his companies total tv package a lot more than most will be willing to pay but NBC has him by the balls anyways. They refused what he wanted. If other networks aren't willing to take the leap NBC can swoop in and match any deal offered and get WWE back by default.
 
S

serenewarfare

Banned
Mr. Enigma said:
It was a part of the pre-announcement stuff, although so much stuff has already changed (such as now all the Raw and Smackdowns suddenly won't be available on-demand as previously promised) so who knows.
Click to expand...

A lot of the pre-announcement stuff was clearly corrected by WWE at the actual launch event. Raws and Smackdowns were never promised for launch, and when asked by Meltzer, WWE told him that was the case back in January.

antonz said:
Vince is betting on his new network deal more than anything with the network. He views the network as a potential break even with ppv style thing and heck if it brings in more that's cake.

He is gambling on Networks willing to double or more the WWE current TV deal and really bring in the bucks. of course he likely values his companies total tv package a lot more than most will be willing to pay but NBC has him by the balls anyways. They refused what he wanted. If other networks aren't willing to take the leap NBC can swoop in and match any deal offered and get WWE back by default.
Click to expand...

Something tells me that he had to have at least had some inkling that someone else was willing to offer more. Of course, NBC has the right to match, so it doesn't matter. But I don't think this'll end with Vince being the one looking stupid.
 
D

Downhome

Member
They may not even be able to offer WM on traditional PPV after this starts up even if they wanted to do it like that next year. Heck, half the providers have even pulled Elimination Chamber this coming Sunday.
 
B

BillRiccio

Member
They need a million buys to break even since they are paying $120 million a year to MLB Network to take care of the streaming. I think 700,000 is a realistic number for them to expect in the first year. The trial week will probably have over a million people trying it out but I suspect that a lot of them will cancel because content is not available that they want or they just won't pay $9.99 a month. When the network goes world wide though I could easily see it having over a million buy's and being a very good revenue source for the company.

As for the tv deal I don't see any chance in hell they can double their rights. Maybe they go from $130 million a year to like $175 million a year but I don't see anyone getting into a bidding war with NBC. The E should be happy with that at this point anyways. The rating have consistently slipped through this contract. The advertising issue is also something that weighs heavily against WWE. I'm sure there will be spin control but this will be a rocky year for investors. The company will be fine long term though as more markets become available to the network.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
The reason why UFC cards are so inconsistent these days is because of how messed up their contracts are. They have dozens and dozens of fighters all with a guaranteed number of televised fights per year so they have to fill up the lesser shows with talent that just can't draw.
 
H

HerbertFish

Member
BillRiccio said:
They need a million buys to break even since they are paying $120 million a year to MLB Network to take care of the streaming. I think 700,000 is a realistic number for them to expect in the first year. The trial week will probably have over a million people trying it out but I suspect that a lot of them will cancel because content is not available that they want or they just won't pay $9.99 a month. When the network goes world wide though I could easily see it having over a million buy's and being a very good revenue source for the company.

As for the tv deal I don't see any chance in hell they can double their rights. Maybe they go from $130 million a year to like $175 million a year but I don't see anyone getting into a bidding war with NBC. The E should be happy with that at this point anyways. The rating have consistently slipped through this contract. The advertising issue is also something that weighs heavily against WWE. I'm sure there will be spin control but this will be a rocky year for investors. The company will be fine long term though as more markets become available to the network.
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There's such an extreme desperation for live tv content and it has created a massive, massive sports bubble for tv rights. See: the Dodgers, 1 MLB team, getting an 8.5 billion, yes billion, dollar tv deal.

They will get more than 175 million and a lot more. If the freaken English Premier League got 250 million for 3 years for US tv rights then WWE being the much bigger draw should be looking at least that, especially with WWE packaging everything. I would guess well over 300 million. Smack down in all likelihood goes live and on a new night.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
I got tired of the nostalgia trip on Netflix pretty quick, yeah the memories are great and it's fun to see the old stuff jog memory back into place from time to time.
can't see how one can subscribe long term thinking they will get value
 
R

Razorskin

----- ------
gutter_trash said:
I got tired of the nostalgia trip on Netflix pretty quick, yeah the memories are great and it's fun to see the old stuff jog memory back into place from time to time.
can't see how one can subscribe long term thinking they will get value
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better than paying $45 a month for PPVs
 
B

BigDug13

Member
Hopefully they expand the classic content beyond just the old PPV's. I want to see some late 90's RAW episodes.

gutter_trash said:
I got tired of the nostalgia trip on Netflix pretty quick, yeah the memories are great and it's fun to see the old stuff jog memory back into place from time to time.
can't see how one can subscribe long term thinking they will get value
Click to expand...

You get each PPV live for $10 each essentially. The 80% savings is enough for some people.
 
B

BillRiccio

Member
Mr.Awesome said:
There's such an extreme desperation for live tv content and it has created a massive, massive sports bubble for tv rights. See: the Dodgers, 1 MLB team, getting an 8.5 billion, yes billion, dollar tv deal.

They will get more than 175 million and a lot more. If the freaken English Premier League got 250 million for 3 years for US tv rights then WWE being the much bigger draw should be looking at least that, especially with WWE packaging everything. I would guess well over 300 million. Smack down in all likelihood goes live and on a new night.
Click to expand...

The only difference is those entities have had an increase in ratings and can provide the networks with very good ad revenue. The WWE while a consistent draw in the ratings doesn't come close to live sports in either regard. I just don't see how they'll get signed for for double what they are getting now if whoever signs them can't make their money back.


I tweeted @askwwenetwork why they have decreased the number of on demand content from 1500 hours to 1000 hours. No response from those bastards yet.
 
H

Hasney

Member
Jamie OD said:
The original ECW PPVs and TV will be on the Network at launch. (source: Joey Styles)
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Oh shit, 100% sold now. At least we have the complete TV library from one of the companies!

PwPcxCQ.png
 
K

Kaladin

Member
You know the feature that should be on the Network day 1 but probably isn't?

Have the whole shows broken down by chapters and the chapters are each match / segment, and fans can create their own "Best Of" playlist.
 
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