Support NeoGAF

[TropicanaTwista]

You’re talking in circles.

A price increase or new creative tier subs is not the problem.

The problem is this:

* There is a $11 option for PC-only gamers to get the Gamepass library and day 1 games.

* There is NO $11 option for console-only gamers to get the Gamepass library and day 1 games.


Why is there only a $20 console+PC option for console-only gamers who want day 1 games?

Gaming media should ask MS this. I’m on PC but I still think this needs to be asked. The only reason people aren’t complaining here is because so many are still sitting with prepaid stacked cheap subs or are on PC.

Think this is probably too "ton foil hat conspiracy" but it almost seems like MS is deliberately trying to make their console as unappealing as possible. First with this GP pricing compared to PC as you listed. But I also think back to about a month ago when they had their "E3" show. Revealing a new Series X, which is just a series X with an extra TB for $599 is insane. WTF is the market for that?

I don't think I can get myself to fully believe this but it almost seems like they really are trying to tank their consoles but kind of giving themselves an excuse at the same time. When they inevitably stop making consoles, I'm sure they'll blabber about how they had console options yet it got no support. Conveniently leaving out it had a horrible price proposition.

 

[Three]

Think this is probably too "ton foil hat conspiracy" but it almost seems like MS is deliberately trying to make their console as unappealing as possible. First with this GP pricing compared to PC as you listed. But I also think back to about a month ago when they had their "E3" show. Revealing a new Series X, which is just a series X with an extra TB for $599 is insane. WTF is the market for that?

I don't think I can get myself to fully believe this but it almost seems like they really are trying to tank their consoles but kind of giving themselves an excuse at the same time. When they inevitably stop making consoles, I'm sure they'll blabber about how they had console options yet it got no support. Conveniently leaving out it had a horrible price proposition.

They're doing it because they know they have most xbox users by the balls already. They've converted most of them to gamepass and stagnated growth there. A lot of them can't even buy physical discs as a cheap option if they wanted to go back to ownership. So it's either £38 or more for digital games like Redfall or keep paying with an extra few pounds every month. It's not really trying to make it unappealing, it's trying to make as much money from xbox users as possible knowing their alternative choices are limited.

 

[Jibran#one]

This is ridiculously confusing for the average consumer
Core
Standard
Ultimate
It's like they want to kill the service them selves.

 

[mayham2199]

Because we are

What's hilarious is watching DF discuss this price increase and hearing Alex and all the issues they've had getting games to run on PC from GP. All I could think is thank god I'm not on that system anymore. I'll never get the time back I wasted trying to get Forza to run from that shit windows store. Having to reformat my HD because I couldn't delete the games windows installed.

They all came to the same conclusion. PC is paying cheaper but they are also paying for what they get.

 

[mayham2199]

Was just thinking about this. Why is Gamepass now so overwhelmingly lopsided in favor of PC compared to console?! As you point out a 'console only' player doesn't have the option of Day one games now, unless one pays for a tier containing PC games that has no relevance to said player.

PC games and I'm sure a bunch of people would give up cloud as well.

 

[Astray]

You’re talking in circles.

A price increase or new creative tier subs is not the problem.

The problem is this:

* There is a $11 option for PC-only gamers to get the Gamepass library and day 1 games.

* There is NO $11 option for console-only gamers to get the Gamepass library and day 1 games.


Why is there only a $20 console+PC option for console-only gamers who want day 1 games?

Gaming media should ask MS this. I’m on PC but I still think this needs to be asked. The only reason people aren’t complaining here is because so many are still sitting with prepaid stacked cheap subs or are on PC.

I'm not a fan of Xbox, but you need to keep in mind that any person who buys an Xbox as we speak costs Microsoft at least $100-200, because unlike Sony and especially Nintendo, they lose a ton of money on console price subsidization. A person building or buying a PC today doesn't cost them that money.

So the net balance from Microsoft's POV for each customer is this:

At the point of Purchase/Build
Console: -$100-$200 (Depends on whether they went for Series S or X and which variant, but the latest info we got is that MS loses around this range on every system sold)
PC: $0

Now, assume that each customer gets the cheapest possible gamepass subscription that gives day 1 games for one year, and for the sake of simplicity, we won't consider special discounts either, we should just focus on simple cash in/cash out here:

Console customer will have to go for the Ultimate tier ($19.99 or $239.88/yr) (you can't enter the console tier anymore, you are either an existing subscriber or you're on another tier). PC customer can either go for Ultimate or PC Gamepass, but the cheaper one in this case is PC Game Pass ($11.99/mo or ).

After 1 Year of Cheapest Subscription with Day 1 Games:
Console: +$139.88-$39.88
PC: +$143.88

As you can see in the above example, a PC consumer is more lucrative in the short-term to Microsoft, now normally you would get into the idea that an Xbox consumer gives %30 royalties to Microsoft on all DLC and in-game purchases, but that's also true in their PC store too because Microsoft controls that.

 

[TropicanaTwista]

They're doing it because they know they have most xbox users by the balls already. They've converted most of them to gamepass and stagnated growth there. A lot of them can't even buy physical discs as a cheap option if they wanted to go back to ownership. So it's either £38 or more for digital games like Redfall or keep paying with an extra few pounds every month. It's not really trying to make it unappealing, it's trying to make as much money from xbox users as possible knowing their alternative choices are limited.

I agree to an extent. Like I don't think what you're saying is wrong, but I also feel like they are trying to push users to PC at the same time. The crazy Series X prices for new console buyers (or I guess just collectors as well). Plus these GP prices. Like yes, they're gonna get more money than they should from console users, but there is gonna be a point where even the die hards are fed up and move. Either to PC to continue with their Xbox/MS accounts. Or just completely move over to Sony/Nintendo. I usually tend to think it's kinda foolish to cater to the die hard fans because if people don't want to admit it or not, it's such a small percentage of the overall user base of these ecosystems. In MS case though.... This is a shrinking user base, it's basically only their die hards at this point. Pissing them off with anti-consumer moves is just insane. They need to be doing the opposite and make GP even more appeasing, not less. Would be like Sony in the PS3 era just having the online hack , which I feel was their lowest point. Then charging for online as soon as it was restored (remember online was free for PS in that era).

 

[Vitter.]

Great deal. Pay more for less, im guessing the case to grow subs will work! ¨ALL THIS IS COMING TO GP DAY ONE¨ will get more tricky to say, it was their pillar for selling it.
Unsustaineable indeed but that does not mean we can't play the games until it blows up or the hole gaming market changes in it's favour.
It's clear how MS is in full control now, more harsh truths will come for fans, Phil will be the punching ball until he get's tired I guess for whatever Satya will decide.

 

[laynelane]

They're doing it because they know they have most xbox users by the balls already. They've converted most of them to gamepass and stagnated growth there. A lot of them can't even buy physical discs as a cheap option if they wanted to go back to ownership. So it's either £38 or more for digital games like Redfall or keep paying with an extra few pounds every month. It's not really trying to make it unappealing, it's trying to make as much money from xbox users as possible knowing their alternative choices are limited.

I think another reason is there have been, seemingly, changes at Xbox HQ. I'm sure if it was Phil and co. alone, they'd keep pissing away money in a futile attempt to spend Sony out of business and the pursuit of career moments like purchasing Nintendo. But now that they actually have to get a return on the investment for all those acquisitions, they're passing that on to their most loyal customers. They could try with PC users but, as you say, unlike Xbox gamers - they have way more choices and will simply choose not to subscribe to Game Pass.

Basically, day one releases of titles like CoD for all users costs too much. In hindsight, it's interesting how many people predicted this outcome.

 

[XXL]

In hindsight, it's interesting how many people predicted this outcome.

 

[feynoob]

I think another reason is there have been, seemingly, changes at Xbox HQ. I'm sure if it was Phil and co. alone, they'd keep pissing away money in a futile attempt to spend Sony out of business and the pursuit of career moments like purchasing Nintendo. But now that they actually have to get a return on the investment for all those acquisitions, they're passing that on to their most loyal customers. They could try with PC users but, as you say, unlike Xbox gamers - they have way more choices and will simply choose not to subscribe to Game Pass.

Basically, day one releases of titles like CoD for all users costs too much. In hindsight, it's interesting how many people predicted this outcome.

MS CFO has been on the throat with phil spencer for a long time.
Phil could have acheived some results, but the management wanted something else.

The entire thing was a mess. This deal just made the mess big.

 

[laynelane]

MS CFO has been on the throat with phil spencer for a long time.
Phil could have acheived some results, but the management wanted something else.

The entire thing was a mess. This deal just made the mess big.

Yeah, I agree with that. The ABK acquisition was definitely the breaking point.

 

[XXL]

Yeah, I agree with that. The ABK acquisition was definitely the breaking point.

I posted this a while back and it's aging beautifully. Lol.

 

[ManaByte]

Got my email about the price increase.

I’m stacked until May 2027 and will continue to stack 3 month cards I find on sale.

 

[Topher]

Got my email about the price increase.

I’m stacked until May 2027 and will continue to stack 3 month cards I find on sale.

 

[reinking]

Finally, Xbox noticed me.


(I got the email)

 

[bitbydeath]

Got my email about the price increase.

I’m stacked until May 2027 and will continue to stack 3 month cards I find on sale.

 

[Three]

I dread to think what the price would be in 2027. They reduced stacking to 13 months for a reason.

 

[ZehDon]

I dread to think what the price would be in 2027. They reduced stacking to 13 months for a reason.

I think that's the ticking closing to the reveal of their next gen hardware plans - which is a PC in console clothing. In that world, there's only PC Game Pass and it's tiers. By preventing people stacking further, they make the removal of Console Game Pass easier.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I think that's the ticking closing to the reveal of their next gen hardware plans - which is a PC in console clothing. In that world, there's only PC Game Pass and it's tiers. By preventing people stacking further, they make the removal of Console Game Pass easier.

This is far too logical thinking for this forum...who are you and what are you doing here?

 

[Three]

I think that's the ticking closing to the reveal of their next gen hardware plans - which is a PC in console clothing. In that world, there's only PC Game Pass and it's tiers. By preventing people stacking further, they make the removal of Console Game Pass easier.

I don't think they'll be removing Gamepass Core anytime soon but possibly. I think they will continue to charge console users the new rate of $75 for online play and differentiate PC and Console.

 

[VanCityGamer]

Got my email about the price increase.

I’m stacked until May 2027 and will continue to stack 3 month cards I find on sale.

That’s it? I’m set until July 2027.

Never paid a penny for Game Pass. All MS Rewards.

 

[Fess]

They should have left everything as it was and just raised the price. Everyone was expecting that. Not this bullshit.

You’re right they already had all needed tiers:
Online
Console
PC
Console+PC

But seriously, having no console-only tier with day 1 games, that should be big talking point here. Gaming media needs do their job here and question MS about it or the next step will be the removal of day 1 games in the PC-only option as well.

 

[Aloy's Bad Hair Day]

We all knew price increases were coming but this seems convoluted.

I’ve just spent a month working my way through O365 & Azure licensing.

This is like a MacDonald’s menu by comparison.

 

[Fess]

I'm not a fan of Xbox, but you need to keep in mind that any person who buys an Xbox as we speak costs Microsoft at least $100-200, because unlike Sony and especially Nintendo, they lose a ton of money on console price subsidization. A person building or buying a PC today doesn't cost them that money.

So the net balance from Microsoft's POV for each customer is this:

At the point of Purchase/Build
Console: -$100-$200 (Depends on whether they went for Series S or X and which variant, but the latest info we got is that MS loses around this range on every system sold)
PC: $0

Now, assume that each customer gets the cheapest possible gamepass subscription that gives day 1 games for one year, and for the sake of simplicity, we won't consider special discounts either, we should just focus on simple cash in/cash out here:

Console customer will have to go for the Ultimate tier ($19.99 or $239.88/yr) (you can't enter the console tier anymore, you are either an existing subscriber or you're on another tier). PC customer can either go for Ultimate or PC Gamepass, but the cheaper one in this case is PC Game Pass ($11.99/mo or ).

After 1 Year of Cheapest Subscription with Day 1 Games:
Console: +$139.88-$39.88
PC: +$143.88

As you can see in the above example, a PC consumer is more lucrative in the short-term to Microsoft, now normally you would get into the idea that an Xbox consumer gives %30 royalties to Microsoft on all DLC and in-game purchases, but that's also true in their PC store too because Microsoft controls that.

Yeah but Gamepass is popular because of Xbox. Not because of PC. It’s on console it’s advertised on the store and dashboard and it’s mostly through console fans there is hype. And when they push console gamers to PC they’ll also push them to Steam and there are no Gamepass ads there.

So what’s the plan here?
Only way a PC gamer even get introduced to Gamepass today is if they install the Xbox app. And why would they do that when everything is on Steam?

So my conclusion is that if they pull the plug on consoles too early then Gamepass dies too. They need to first build up a big userbase outside of consoles before they even begin to do this transition over to PC.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yeah but Gamepass is popular because of Xbox. Not because of PC. It’s on console it’s advertised on the store and dashboard and it’s mostly through console fans there is hype. And when they push console gamers to PC they’ll also push them to Steam and there are no Gamepass ads there.

So what’s the plan here?
Only way a PC gamer even get introduced to Gamepass today is if they install the Xbox app. And why would they do that when everything is on Steam?

So my conclusion is that if they pull the plug on consoles too early then Gamepass dies too. They need to first build up a big userbase outside of consoles before they even begin to do this transition over to PC.

I agree, but I think Microsoft's strategy is to merge PC and consoles.

Let's consider Xbox "Next" which I and many others envision is a PC running the Xbox App and maintaining the Xbox ecosystem with backward compatibility for XSX and maybe Xbox One purchases/entitlements.

This is their way of pivoting and getting into the PC space without losing their userbase and potentially even offloading hardware costs to other manufacturers. The endusers who want to keep Xbox alive will have to pay for that with higher prices. Those who want to stay on gamepass can stay on gamepass, but it'll be one service rather than two.

Will this work? We'll have to see how loyal Xbox customers are. So far, they've been pretty sticky in this generation, but will they pay significantly higher prices to remain in the network?

 

[XXL]

And when they push console gamers to PC they’ll also push them to Steam and there are no Gamepass ads there.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Was just thinking about this. Why is Gamepass now so overwhelmingly lopsided in favor of PC compared to console?! As you point out a 'console only' player doesn't have the option of Day one games now, unless one pays for a tier containing PC games that has no relevance to said player.

That's the secret.
They are giving the Console customers PC game licenses BY FORCE when they buy day-one gamepass.

Because customers who only have games on Consoles would demand that they keep their ability to play on consoles. By making these customers buy the higher tier that include PC game access (that they didn't ask for), it allows Microsoft to later pull the rug under the consoles and tell them to go play on PC. Basically "we are not taking your games away from you, you can continue playing without your console, you lost nothing".

That is compared to when Stadia died, and Google had to refund everyone because the playing licenses become worthless. By forcing Xbox customers to own PC game licenses, Microsoft can prevent them from demanding a refund when Xbox Consoles cease to be a thing.

 

[DragonNCM]

They should have left everything as it was and just raised the price. Everyone was expecting that. Not this bullshit.

Yeah...but they want to up profit so they need to have as many xbox users subscribe to GP Ultimate for day one games at 20$ price. Their intend was to make 15$ plan what is totally unattractive so subscribers will take the better deal at 20$.
It is win situation for MS.

 

[adamsapple]

Got my email about the price increase.

I’m stacked until May 2027 and will continue to stack 3 month cards I find on sale.

(except using Rewards to get 3 month stacks)

 

[Mibu no ookami]

That's the secret.
They are giving the Console customers PC game licenses BY FORCE when they buy day-one gamepass.

Because customers who only have games on Consoles would demand that they keep their ability to play on consoles. By making these customers buy the higher tier that include PC game access (that they didn't ask for), it allows Microsoft to later pull the rug under the consoles and tell them to go play on PC. Basically "we are not taking your games away from you, you can continue playing without your console, you lost nothing".

That is compared to when Stadia died, and Google had to refund everyone because the playing licenses become worthless. By forcing Xbox customers to own PC game licenses, Microsoft can prevent them from demanding a refund when Xbox Consoles cease to be a thing.

This is the correct assessment of what is going on.

 

[adamsapple]

This is the correct assessment of what is going on.

No, not at all.

Stadia refunds were for the people who bought games there, there were no refunds for the Stadia Pro subscription service.

Comparing the two is kinda idiotic, they're nothing alike.

Stadia will attempt to automatically process refunds for all purchases of games, add-on content and subscriptions fees other than Stadia Pro made through the Stadia Store.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yeah...but they want to up profit so they need to have as many xbox users subscribe to GP Ultimate for day one games at 20$ price. Their intend was to make 15$ plan what is totally unattractive so subscribers will take the better deal at 20$.
It is win situation for MS.

In theory. In reality, what I think you'll get is a lot of people who were on the 10 dollar GP drop off of GamePass entirely rather than jump to 20 dollars. This is why they grandfathered them in, but we'll see how long that lasts. It's why they stopped auto renewal and limited stacking. They'll get these people on the higher price eventually, which essentially doubles their price monthly.

I think you will have a lot fewer people adopting gamepass as well, so the churn rate is going to be painful.

So no, I wouldn't call it a win-win necessarily.

 

[Fess]

I agree, but I think Microsoft's strategy is to merge PC and consoles.

Let's consider Xbox "Next" which I and many others envision is a PC running the Xbox App and maintaining the Xbox ecosystem with backward compatibility for XSX and maybe Xbox One purchases/entitlements.

This is their way of pivoting and getting into the PC space without losing their userbase and potentially even offloading hardware costs to other manufacturers. The endusers who want to keep Xbox alive will have to pay for that with higher prices. Those who want to stay on gamepass can stay on gamepass, but it'll be one service rather than two.

Will this work? We'll have to see how loyal Xbox customers are. So far, they've been pretty sticky in this generation, but will they pay significantly higher prices to remain in the network?

We’ll see, I doubt that Xbox ”Next” is just a PC running the Xbox app. That would be anti-hype.
They need to make a new OS to get it to feel like a console, something snappy and controller friendly like Steam OS but through Windows, and without OS tweaks that break Steam-version compatibility. Won’t be easy. And they need some Xbox hardware to get backwards compatibility working or hardware powerful enough to do emulation.
Very very complex box.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

We’ll see, I doubt that Xbox ”Next” is just a PC running the Xbox app. That would be anti-hype.
They need to make a new OS to get it to feel like a console, something snappy and controller friendly like Steam OS but through Windows, and without OS tweaks that break Steam-version compatibility. Won’t be easy. And they need some Xbox hardware to get backwards compatibility working or hardware powerful enough to do emulation.
Very very complex box.

I'm not sure that they have many avenues left for hype.

I do think that the model or at least one of the models will be extremely high end, but will be priced along with that.

A Kiosk mode of Windows isn't difficult to produce.

 

[Astray]

Yeah but Gamepass is popular because of Xbox. Not because of PC. It’s on console it’s advertised on the store and dashboard and it’s mostly through console fans there is hype. And when they push console gamers to PC they’ll also push them to Steam and there are no Gamepass ads there.

So what’s the plan here?
Only way a PC gamer even get introduced to Gamepass today is if they install the Xbox app. And why would they do that when everything is on Steam?

So my conclusion is that if they pull the plug on consoles too early then Gamepass dies too. They need to first build up a big userbase outside of consoles before they even begin to do this transition over to PC.

You have to keep in mind that the Gamepass model is changing in front of our eyes. The phase where they hoped for massive growth is largely over. The idea that they need to treat console users as a popularity vector has failed.

From MS's perspective, now it's time to:

1) Kill any cross-cannibalization caused by the service to preserve other revenue streams.
2) Milk the existing users as much as possible.

 

[Fess]

A Kiosk mode of Windows isn't difficult to produce.

I have no idea but that would work I guess. They need to make a jank free box, not just an app or overlay in Windows. Can’t ever show the regular Windows desktop unless you choose to boot into that. I have my living room PC booting into Steam now but I see the Windows desktop for a couple seconds when it starts and sometimes have to pull out mouse and keyboard to click a box and fill in some login form. Annoying. Controller-only is what they need to do.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I have no idea but that would work I guess. They need to make a jank free box, not just an app or overlay in Windows. Can’t ever show the regular Windows desktop unless you choose to boot into that. I have my living room PC booting into Steam now but I see the Windows desktop for a couple seconds when it starts and sometimes have to pull out mouse and keyboard to click a box and fill in some login form. Annoying. Controller-only is what they need to do.

Kiosks are quite common and aren't difficult. You can easily boot directly to a kiosk. I've set up several devices for kiosk modes. You never see the Windows desktop, nor can you escape the kiosk.

 

[Topher]

I'm not sure that they have many avenues left for hype.

I do think that the model or at least one of the models will be extremely high end, but will be priced along with that.

A Kiosk mode of Windows isn't difficult to produce.

I have no idea but that would work I guess. They need to make a jank free box, not just an app or overlay in Windows. Can’t ever show the regular Windows desktop unless you choose to boot into that. I have my living room PC booting into Steam now but I see the Windows desktop for a couple seconds when it starts and sometimes have to pull out mouse and keyboard to click a box and fill in some login form. Annoying. Controller-only is what they need to do.

Windows IoT already exists and has a kiosk mode.

 

[Fess]

Kiosks are quite common and aren't difficult. You can easily boot directly to a kiosk. I've set up several devices for kiosk modes. You never see the Windows desktop, nor can you escape the kiosk.

Windows IoT already exists and has a kiosk mode.

No offense but I doubt it’s working without issues. I set up my living room PC in March and checked some living room PC threads here, no talk about kiosk modes and IoT. The common recommendations was to simply boot in Steam and to get a wireless keyboard with mouse pad when things go south. And that’s what I did. Tried using Playnite too but it’s janky compared to Steam big picture mode.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

No offense but I doubt it’s working without issues. I set up my living room PC in March and checked some living room PC threads here, no talk about kiosk modes and IoT. The common recommendations was to simply boot in Steam and to get a wireless keyboard with mouse pad when things go south. And that’s what I did. Tried using Playnite too but it’s janky compared to Steam big picture mode.

I'm talking about enterprise solutions, not DIY stuff or open source stuff made by hobbyists.

 

[Jibran#one]

Here's my take on it
Aa a guy who only has a series x.
Since I already have like 2 more years of gp ultimate I'm not worried but people who have to pay 20 dollars every month is a big ask.
There must be a huge game every month to justify a sub that they think we should be subbed all throughout the year.
Also I think this is the maximum price they can push 20 a month is already too much.

 

[MacReady13]

I'm out. I still own my Series X but will be looking to sell. I only had Core as that was the natural progression from Xbox gold and now I have just given up. They desperately want us all to subscribe to Ultimate and I am just not going to rent fucking games. I refuse to so fuck them. Time to take a stand against shit like this. I've cancelled my Core subscription and will not be an Xbox gamer any longer. I'm happy to stick with my PC, PS5 and Switch and purchase the games I want to own.

Feel free to ridicule, laugh, mock, whatever. I don't care. Sadly I was once a very avid Xbox gamer who has accumulated over 65,000 gamer points. But it means fuck all when they are going down this path of not owning but renting. Not where I want to be or where I want the industry to go.

Like I said, support this shit all you like but I can't, in good conscience, follow this shit. The ads for Amazon firestick with a controller is where Xbox wants to go so fuck them. Good luck wanting to play games like Forza Horizon playing on a firestick...

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

No, not at all.

Stadia refunds were for the people who bought games there, there were no refunds for the Stadia Pro subscription service.

Comparing the two is kinda idiotic, they're nothing alike.

It is all about easing the transition. People who refuse to pay 20 dollars will drop out willingly now, so will no longer be a problem. People who DO, get given PC licenses so they can continue to be milked for subscription even after the console ceased to be supported. The price increase was always going to happen regardless, so losing people that way was acceptable.

The question was having to KEEP the people who would pay more. Keeping them while still making and releasing new consoles is no longer financially viable, as there isn't enough customers to justify the expense. So the only way is to convert them to PC gamepass. Many of them don't WANT to get PC Gamepass, so they are given it by default under the higher tier, they don't get to say no.

Look at all these people who say they are "all good because they have two to three years worth of Gamepass"? They will have to either play on PC or give it all up, when the changeover occurs.

 

[adamsapple]

The question was having to KEEP the people who would pay more. Keeping them while still making and releasing new consoles is no longer financially viable, as there isn't enough customers to justify the expense. So the only way is to convert them to PC gamepass. Many of them don't WANT to get PC Gamepass, so they are given it by default under the higher tier, they don't get to say no.

Look at all these people who say they are "all good because they have two to three years worth of Gamepass"? They will have to either play on PC or give it all up, when the changeover occurs.

We can talk about this when their next gen plans are formally revealed, so far the only thing we know is that they have committed new hardware and a new generation multiple times in the last couple of months, so outside of unfounded speculation, there's nothing to say that there won't be console hardware after the current gen.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

We can talk about this when their next gen plans are formally revealed, so far the only thing we know is that they have committed new hardware and a new generation multiple times in the last couple of months, so outside of unfounded speculation, there's nothing to say that there won't be console hardware after the current gen.

Consoles only stay viable when there is enough of an ecosystem out there to fund it. This is why Console War was ever a thing. It doesn't matter how many times Spencer denies it, Consoles die when they lose market share.

I am just speaking the truth. I have been around long enough to see them come and go, those who say "Console Wars are pointless" are either ignorant or lying.

And when a Console war ends, the losing console dies.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I have listened to someone go through the receipts, dismantling every single statement from Xbox executives. Damn, they deserve all the shit they are getting.

 

[bender]

We can talk about this when their next gen plans are formally revealed, so far the only thing we know is that they have committed new hardware and a new generation multiple times in the last couple of months, so outside of unfounded speculation, there's nothing to say that there won't be console hardware after the current gen.

Phil says a lot of things.

...on the other hand, getting out of the hardware business would be the first smart thing the Xbox leadership has done in a long time so they probably will chase for another generation.

 

[adamsapple]

Phil says a lot of things.

...on the other hand, getting out of the hardware business would be the first smart thing the Xbox leadership has done in a long time so they probably will chase for another generation.

 

[DragonNCM]

Consoles only stay viable when there is enough of an ecosystem out there to fund it. This is why Console War was ever a thing. It doesn't matter how many times Spencer denies it, Consoles die when they lose market share.

I am just speaking the truth. I have been around long enough to see them come and go, those who say "Console Wars are pointless" are either ignorant or lying.

And when a Console war ends, the losing console dies.

Xbox with 30mil consoles sold & 42 mil GP subscribers it is not in bad place at all. Yes they are third in console market & by the number's of profit they are not at bad place at all.
They got big publishers & game developers under their belt & they can make good money going third party with games. They offer choice for you.
You don't like Xbox ?
Fine, go by our games on PC, Nintendo or Sony it is fine for us, we still get money.
You like to play cheep monthly day one games from our company ?
Go subscribe on GPU for month or two.
In total we will get your money on this or another whey.
When you see where they are going it is clear it is all about our money.
Some will make more, some will make less but in the end they will all get our money.
And yes.......console wars are pointless, uncle Phil is right. It is pointless to invest in one ecosystem & you are on third place & don't go third party & louse potential sales on other ecosystems.