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[Heisenberg007]

To all the people who are saying "Xbox didn't have the first-party resources" or "They didn't have a lot of studios" or "All first-party studios were busy with first-party games", I only have one question for them:

What was stopping Xbox to deal with Marvel and outsource that game to Insomniac or another third-party studio? Insomniac was even developing Sunset Overdrive in 2014, when Marvel approached Xbox.

 

[azertydu91]

what caused those crash was mostly mismanagement, that type of crash won't happen today, the industry have learned what and what not to do. But Ed believes how we purchase our games would cause a crash that would eliminate many pubs if we went to full sub model.

Yeah I understand but I wanted to see the comparison with music and movies to see how fragile the video game industry is.

 

[Zeroing]

To all the people who are saying "Xbox didn't have the first-party resources" or "They didn't have a lot of studios" or "All first-party studios were busy with first-party games", I only have one question for them:

What was stopping Xbox to deal with Marvel and outsource that game to Insomniac or another third-party studio? Insomniac was even developing Sunset Overdrive in 2014, when Marvel approached Xbox.

MS did in fact had studios at that time frame and they closed them! You can look it up!

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Yeah I understand but I wanted to see the comparison with music and movies to see how fragile the video game industry is.

Nintendo with WiiU, Microsoft with XboxOne, and Sony with PS3 all have one thing in common; had their succesor failed, there would be no more game consoles for that company. If that isn't fragility, what is?

 

[azertydu91]

Nintendo with WiiU, Microsoft with XboxOne, and Sony with PS3 all have one thing in common; had their succesor failed, there would be no more game consoles for that company. If that isn't fragility, what is?

I know this industry is but I don't know how fragile music&movie is.I think it would be a great comparison.

 

[Mattyp]

Thank fuck for that, death to cape shit.

 

[DarkMage619]

To all the people who are saying "Xbox didn't have the first-party resources" or "They didn't have a lot of studios" or "All first-party studios were busy with first-party games", I only have one question for them:

What was stopping Xbox to deal with Marvel and outsource that game to Insomniac or another third-party studio? Insomniac was even developing Sunset Overdrive in 2014, when Marvel approached Xbox.

Name another title where MS paid for an IP they didn't own in addition to contracting out development on that IP in 2014 when this all happened. All under Myerson who was very conservative with how Xbox spent money. This was not a complete Spider-Man game being shopped around it was just some Marvel IP. The Xbox of today is not the Xbox of 2014. Sony and Insomniac were really the only way this was going down. Congrats to Sony for having all the components ready to go.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Same. 3rd party software sales decreased. That's why blaming Gamepass is a bit weird.

Well of course Sony doesn’t have gamepass.

 

[Swift_Star]

Damn idiot. Tendons and all came out.

WTH

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

You maybe correct but it is still a murky area. It could of caused a lawsuit. Better to steer clear and do a different property.
Ultimately they chose neither.

It's not a murky area. It's pretty clear cut.

What the dude told you is correct. Once this licensing agreement with Sony expires Marvel could go to Microsoft and have an exclusive Spider-Man game with them, including a remake of the PS4 one. No that I think it'll happen, but legally they could.

You mean Insomniacs Spider-Man?

Yes they do.

But not the Spider-Man IP.

No they don't. Not completely anyways. Sony owns the code, the library, and game assets for Insomniac's Spider-Man. Everything else, including the story, character, etc is owned by Marvel.

That's how copyright for licensed games work. The licensor owns the characters, stories, etc and the developer owns the code and game assets.

 

[SuperSaiyanWithDreads]

They did what Marvel should of passed on them

 

[Urban]

They did what Marvel should of passed on them

 

[ksdixon]

I always thought Sony money hatted Street Fighter and Final Fantasy. Games that had a history of multi-platform releases. According to this story there was no Marvel game and they were looking for a partner to create one. A little different.

someone also made the comment similar to if Sony hadn't co-funded/developed SF5, we'd have had to wait a lot longer etc. I personally don't count these contexts as a moneyhat to begin with, more a co-development.

 

[cireza]

we'd have had to wait a lot longer

Waiting longer would have most probably helped the game. But it is not like Capcom cared that much, as they had Sony's money in their pocket already. Typical situation for a Third Party that had its development secured by an "exclusive deal". Less players playing a worse game.

 

[Goalus]

Thank god MS doesn't spend any money on that creatively bankrupt borefest that is the MCU.

Sleeping pills are readily available, so why try to emulate them on a video game console?

 

[Ar¢tos]

Thank god MS doesn't spend any money on that creatively bankrupt borefest that is the MCU.

Sleeping pills are readily available, so why try to emulate them on a video game console?

So edgy! You must be the coolest kid of your street!

I don't care for superhero stuff but even I can see it makes a ton of money, so someone is buying it...

 

[MasterCornholio]

Thank god MS doesn't spend any money on that creatively bankrupt borefest that is the MCU.

Sleeping pills are readily available, so why try to emulate them on a video game console?

Game still was pretty successful and it reviewed well.

No idea why your telling people to commit suicide over this. But if that's on your mind then I believe you need to seek help. Spiderman isn't worth committing suicide over.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Thank god MS doesn't spend any money on that creatively bankrupt borefest that is the MCU.

Sleeping pills are readily available, so why try to emulate them on a video game console?

Yeah, exactly, MS would be really happy seeing that, after they let it go, the two Spider-Man games only sold a meager 33 million copies, and that Xbox didn't have to do anything with that disaster.

 

[PJX]

Thank god MS doesn't spend any money on that creatively bankrupt borefest that is the MCU.

Sleeping pills are readily available, so why try to emulate them on a video game console?

Tell us how you really feel, mate.

 

[Skifi28]

Thank god MS doesn't spend any money on that creatively bankrupt borefest that is the MCU.

Sleeping pills are readily available, so why try to emulate them on a video game console?

I just thought I'd quote you too since everybody else did. Stay safe!

 

[Mibu no ookami]

There's just no evidence to suggest that an Xbox lead Spider-Man game would have been nearly successful or any other Marvel IP.

People continue to pretend like these games were selling hotcakes before Marvel's Spider-Man... They weren't. And to be frank, they haven't afterward. Both Guardians and Avengers were disappointments financially. I won't even count Marvel's Iron Man because it was a VR title.

A large part of Spider-Man's success was the larger user base of the PS4. The PS4 outsold the X1 2.5:1. Ultimately that is why Microsoft really isn't putting as much into their first-party games because they have a smaller user base to sell to. It's also why they beat Sony to PC, because they just needed it more. It'll actually be interesting to see if Nintendo ever gets wise to how much money they're sitting on and supports PC or other consoles.

 

[MasterCornholio]

There's just no evidence to suggest that an Xbox lead Spider-Man game would have been nearly successful or any other Marvel IP.

People continue to pretend like these games were selling hotcakes before Marvel's Spider-Man... They weren't. And to be frank, they haven't afterward. Both Guardians and Avengers were disappointments financially. I won't even count Marvel's Iron Man because it was a VR title.

A large part of Spider-Man's success was the larger user base of the PS4. The PS4 outsold the X1 2.5:1. Ultimately that is why Microsoft really isn't putting as much into their first-party games because they have a smaller user base to sell to. It's also why they beat Sony to PC, because they just needed it more. It'll actually be interesting to see if Nintendo ever gets wise to how much money they're sitting on and supports PC or other consoles.

I believe that a competent developer also made a big difference in Spidermans performance. I've seen too many videos on crappy Spiderman games.

 

[Heisenberg007]

There's just no evidence to suggest that an Xbox lead Spider-Man game would have been nearly successful or any other Marvel IP.

People continue to pretend like these games were selling hotcakes before Marvel's Spider-Man... They weren't. And to be frank, they haven't afterward. Both Guardians and Avengers were disappointments financially. I won't even count Marvel's Iron Man because it was a VR title.

Agree until here.

A large part of Spider-Man's success was the larger user base of the PS4. The PS4 outsold the X1 2.5:1. Ultimately that is why Microsoft really isn't putting as much into their first-party games because they have a smaller user base to sell to. It's also why they beat Sony to PC, because they just needed it more. It'll actually be interesting to see if Nintendo ever gets wise to how much money they're sitting on and supports PC or other consoles.

Disagree with this.

If userbase was the main reason, Activision's game -- releasing on PS, Xbox, PC, etc. -- would have been the most popular Spider-Man games ever. Those games released on PlayStation, too.

The reason why Spider-Man PS4 and Miles Morales sold 33 million copies is that these are freakin' fantastic games -- much better than the iterations that came before them. The pedigree and budget of PlayStation and the talent of Insomniac made them this successful.

 

[SHA]

Cause they don't want you to think they're dead even for a sec like the master chief.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I believe that a competent developer also made a big difference in Spidermans performance. I've seen too many videos on crappy Spiderman games.

So let's travel back in time. What Microsoft developer or developer with close ties to Microsoft should they have put in charge of a theoretical Spider-Man game.

Again understanding that

1) They don't own the IP
2) They aren't going to sell nearly as many copies as PlayStation did
3) They don't get all the profit from the revenue
4) Did the studio you give it to have as much competency as Insomniac?
5) Marvel games didn't sell as well before Spider-Man and haven't since

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Agree until here.

Disagree with this.

If userbase was the main reason, Activision's game -- releasing on PS, Xbox, PC, etc. -- would have been the most popular Spider-Man games ever. Those games released on PlayStation, too.

The reason why Spider-Man PS4 and Miles Morales sold 33 million copies is that these are freakin' fantastic games -- much better than the iterations that came before them. The pedigree and budget of PlayStation and the talent of Insomniac made them this successful.

You didn't understand what I said.

All things being equal, if Insomniac made the exact same game for Xbox One, it would have sold significantly less.

 

[SuperSaiyanWithDreads]

or maybe i wanted to remind Gaf of how stupid Microsoft is by reviving an old thread.

 

[Cyber_hunter026]

Thank god MS doesn't spend any money on that creatively bankrupt borefest that is the MCU.

Sleeping pills are readily available, so why try to emulate them on a video game console?

 

[Fuz]

They did what Marvel should of passed on them

Should have, porcoddio.

Thank god MS doesn't spend any money on that creatively bankrupt borefest that is the MCU.

Sleeping pills are readily available, so why try to emulate them on a video game console?

He's right toh, disney marvel is a flaming dumpster.

 

[Heisenberg007]

You didn't understand what I said.

All things being equal, if Insomniac made the exact same game for Xbox One, it would have sold significantly less.

It would have sold less but not for the reason you mentioned. The game likely wouldn't have been as good as we got on PlayStation, and that's why it would have sold less.

Because you see, Spider-Man PS4 launched on PS that has 117 million.
An Xbox Spider-Man game would have launched on Xbox (50 million) + Steam (120 million), so a total of 170 million.

The userbase would not have been the issue at all in terms of potential/total sales.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

In general, you'd rather have a competent developer work on their OWN IP, which is going to have a higher profit margin and full control over the IP.

Look at the Last of Us and Uncharted.

Sony was able to turn these into multimedia hits, because they own the IP.

The Last of Us & Uncharted games sell and all the revenue goes to sony (apart from any PC revenue that will go to valve).

Sony and Naughty Dog would have to weigh how many more copies of a game and units of consoles would sell for them to license an IP.

Let's say the profit is split 50/50, does that mean a game that would sell 20 million instead of 10 million as a licensed game would be worth it? No, because you still have no control over the IP. I'd rather have sold 10 million and had control over where the IP goes and future profit margins.

An argument could be made that Spider-Man may stifle Insomniac's development as a studio and its ability to develop its own IP. That being said they were on a bit of a cold streak and you have to keep the lights on. They now have the ability to expand in size and scope and hopefully, use Spider-Man as a one-for-them and one-for-us type situation. The only problem is the next one is Wolverine...

 

[MasterCornholio]

So let's travel back in time. What Microsoft developer or developer with close ties to Microsoft should they have put in charge of a theoretical Spider-Man game.

Again understanding that

1) They don't own the IP
2) They aren't going to sell nearly as many copies as PlayStation did
3) They don't get all the profit from the revenue
4) Did the studio you give it to have as much competency as Insomniac?
5) Marvel games didn't sell as well before Spider-Man and haven't since

Back then Insomniac wasn't owned by Sony. Microsoft could have approached them with this.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It would have sold less but not for the reason you mentioned. The game likely wouldn't have been as good as we got on PlayStation, and that's why it would have sold less.

Because you see, Spider-Man PS4 launched on PS that has 117 million.
An Xbox Spider-Man game would have launched on Xbox (50 million) + Steam (120 million), so a total of 170 million.

The userbase would not have been the issue at all in terms of potential/total sales.

LOL... I just said the exact same game by the exact same studio.

It took Sunset Overdrive 4 years to come out on PC, no guarantee Spider-Man would have released on PC at least day 1 and even if it did, it still probably wouldn't have sold as much as PS4.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Back then Insomniac wasn't owned by Sony. Microsoft could have approached them with this.

The idea that Microsoft would have approached Insomniac for such an expensive game, knowing their ties with Sony really wouldn't have made sense.

Imagine I have Insomniac make Spider-Man for Xbox, and Sony has Insomniac make Spider-Man 2 for PS4/5....

 

[Heisenberg007]

The idea that Microsoft would have approached Insomniac for such an expensive game, knowing their ties with Sony really wouldn't have made sense.

Imagine I have Insomniac make Spider-Man for Xbox, and Sony has Insomniac make Spider-Man 2 for PS4/5....

lol why would they make spider-man 2 for PS4/PS5 if Xbox had the Marvel/Spider-Man license?

also, if Xbox and Insomniac were tied with Spider-Man games, Sony likely wouldn't have bought them.

 

[MasterCornholio]

The idea that Microsoft would have approached Insomniac for such an expensive game, knowing their ties with Sony really wouldn't have made sense.

Imagine I have Insomniac make Spider-Man for Xbox, and Sony has Insomniac make Spider-Man 2 for PS4/5....

I don't believe Microsoft has issues with expenses.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

lol why would they make spider-man 2 for PS4/PS5 if Xbox had the Marvel/Spider-Man license?

also, if Xbox and Insomniac were tied with Spider-Man games, Sony likely wouldn't have bought them.

That's the problem with IP you don't own.

If Sony buys Insomniac, and goes to Marvel and says, hey we'd like to have Insomniac do a follow up on our new console, that could surely happen.

Sony has been trying to buy Insomniac for over 20 years.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I don't believe Microsoft has issues with expenses.

Every company has issues with expenses. This idea that Microsoft has limitless cash to spend is really a misnomer. They just had a large round of layoffs and will probably have another this year.

 

[Jigsaah]

Who would they have had develop it? I wouldn't trust pretty much any of their studios to make a decent superhero game. Not a knock against Microsoft, even Sony had to pick up a developer to make Spiderman. I suppose Xbox could have done the same, but I think Sony was the better outcome just given their ability to make great narrative games to begin with,

 

[Morrie’s wig shop]

Sony even let insomniac choose which marvel property they would work on. Insomniac chose Spider-Man and now wolverine.

I can't even imagine how much that Spider-Man 2 on PS5 will do. By that point the PS5 will be at around 50M units sold...crazy numbers I'm sure

And you pocket no money from that…

 

[Goalus]

I can't help but read this as a projection.
If you dig what you're getting from the Marvel conveyor belt, more power to you. Not everybody needs to be fond of mediocrity though.

 

[ungalo]

Is that supposed to be a bad thing ? Wether it was a missed opportunity on their part or not is irrelevant to me.

 

[deriks]

Nice

This deal could be good if was made right before XOne, but in recent years, not so hot

 

[Cyber_hunter026]

I can't help but read this as a projection.
If you dig what you're getting from the Marvel conveyor belt, more power to you. Not everybody needs to be fond of mediocrity though.

Read your own post again. then read the part that comes off dumb thanks

 

[Fox Mulder]

It’s not really that absurd. Marvel games were usually pretty shit before Sony’s Spider-Man. Even Avengers and GotG flopped recently.

 

[MasterCornholio]

It’s not really that absurd. Marvel games were usually pretty shit before Sony’s Spider-Man. Even Avengers and GotG flopped recently.

True. I guess it shows how important the developer is. If you have a good dev with a good IP you can produce something really good.

When it comes to Spiderman it's a shame that there were so many chappy games. Happy that Insomniac did a good job with it.

 

[Aenima]

I always thought Sony money hatted Street Fighter and Final Fantasy. Games that had a history of multi-platform releases. According to this story there was no Marvel game and they were looking for a partner to create one. A little different.

You can say the same for SFV. Without Sony there would be no SFV so soon as they helped fund the game developement.

 

[bender]

The idea that Microsoft would have approached Insomniac for such an expensive game, knowing their ties with Sony really wouldn't have made sense.

100% True. Instead Microsoft should have approached the team that delivered the Xbox exclusive Sunset Overdrive.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Makes sense to me as it’s better to use your own ip versus someone else’s.

Having said that Microsoft didn’t have an Insomniac to hand a Marvel game off to. These days they have more internal studios that could produce something great, but back then?
Even then outside of Spiderman the other Marvel games haven’t been big hits.

 

[Gojiira]

Im more curious how the success of Spiderman has influenced further negotiations. We know Wolverine is coming but I wonder if Sony has other projects lined up as well.