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[Captain Toad]

What a coincidence. All the big Xbox posters never really cared for Marvel.

 

[01011001]

Even with all that....by definition thats close, IMHO.

Unless 8 is now no longer close to 9.

well in the game review world not really no.
my actual rating if 1-10 was actually used to the full extend would be a 7 for Spiderman and a 9 for Batman, but that's not how game ratings work these days is it?
we basically have a scale of 6-10 and then everything below 6 which are just varying degrees of terrible for many people, hence my rating based on those trends

 

[Pedro Motta]

Why was I quoted in this? I've hated Marvel/Disney games since the 90s I don't care what platform they are on the last one I enjoyed was Aladdin on the Sega Genesis

 

[MasterCornholio]

I bet Playground Games could make a great superhero game. All that studio ever does is put out high quality, great playing and looking releases. Hoping to hear an update on Fable next month.

They would certainly be a good choice. They are already making Fable which I’m sure is going to be better than any of Peters Fable games. I’m glad the franchise is getting another chance.

 

[Punished Miku]

What a coincidence. All the big Xbox posters never really cared for Marvel.

I literally said the same thing when they put out Miles Morales and announced Wolverine and when Guardians was getting 10 min e3 demos. It has nothing to do with console wars. But of course thats an impossibility to you.

 

[MasterCornholio]

That scene has a funny story behind it.

 

[Klayzer]

Lognor and Hendricks shitting on Marvel games as trash and garbage yet in the thread "Guardians of the Galaxy finding their audience on Gamepass"

What happened all of a sudden that you're glad? Were you pissed off that you were getting garbage and trash so you were trying to create a dumpster fire with those emojis?

A virtual who's who of anti-Sony posters on this site. The only charter member missing is SlimeGoo dude.

 

[SLB1904]

Spider-Man has WAY too much handholding and context sensitive elements. also the mission design is extremely samey, and in the first game the missions with secondary characters were absolute dogshit

Arkham is way better <- fact

Cope

 

[Topher]

And do you think this was a one time offer from Marvel? Unlikely. Sony just added Wolverine to their stable of Marvel IP. You don't think Marvel would entertain a discussion with Microsoft if the latter wanted to develop a Punisher game or something? Seems unlikely.

No idea. Something could very well be in the works now that Bethesda is part of Microsoft. I hope so.

 

[jroc74]

well in the game review world not really no.
my actual rating if 1-10 was actually used to the full extend would be a 7 for Spiderman and a 9 for Batman, but that's not how game ratings work these days is it?
we basically have a scale of 6-10 and then everything below 6 which are just varying degrees of terrible for many people, hence my rating based on those trends

This is what you posted tho:

the Batman Arkham games, especially the first 2, are a full tier above Spider Man imo. less reliance on context sensitive mechanics, less random player movement restriction for no in-universe reason, better designed stealth encounters, better leveldesign and better controls.

Spider-Man imo is like an 8/10, and Arkham Asylum + City are both in the 9.5 area... with Arkham Knight being ~8.9

So, is this the part where I just bow out of this conversation?

You are literally contradiction yourself......with your own posts....

 

[Tripolygon]

believe me, exclusive games made and promoted by a first party tend to have a more favorable stance in the minds of the console owners.

You don't have to tell me. You have people in this thread doing mental gymnastics to justify Microsft Passing on making a Marvel game which was either bad judgment or a good call, but hindsight says it was a bad call for whoever made that decision. Microsoft had close ties with Insomniac at that time and they could have easily contracted them seeing as how they just made a critically well-received Superhero game Sunset Overdrive for Microsoft. Insomniac would have happily said yes.

which shows that quality doesn't sell games, imo Sunset Overdrive is a better game

That is your opinion and is a valid one. But Spiderman does score critically higher as well as higher user scores and is commercially more successful. So who's to say which is a better game is up to the user at the end of the day.

there were good super hero games that didn't sell that well, and at the time this deal was made it was a time of absolute overflow of mediocre Marvel games... Guardians is shit tho, it deserved to sell badly, I don't get why people praise it that much, absolutely awful fighting system with terrible hit detection and animations.

Your opinion again. The game is critically well-liked as well as has higher user scores. Commercially it did not meet Square's expectations but we don't know what their expectations were.

both great, yes... equally great? not at all

Yes, both are equally great games. There are some things one does better than the other.

 

[Swift_Star]

no, because I also told you why I think Spider-Man was a success... and Wolverine literally has the exact same premise doesn't it?
but I don't think it will be as successful as Spider-Man, because Spider-Man is, well, Spider-Man... the most popular super hero out there basically.

Why were the activision SM games failures then?

 

[Swift_Star]

The green rats are spinning more than a ballerina in this thread. It’s sad and amusing at the same time.
Go buy playstation consoles, people, that way you can stop being salty about games you want to play but are not available on your platform of choice.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Why were the activision SM games failures then?

Matt McMuscles has some really good videos on those. It was mostly down to the developers and the demands of the publisher. Combination which didn’t allow those games to be as good as they should have been.

 

[Swift_Star]

Matt McMuscles has some really good videos on those. It was mostly down to the developers and the demands of the publisher. Combination which didn’t allow those games to be as good as they should have been.

That should be obvious but that poster sad ps4’s SM is a success because it’s SM… which is not true at all.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

The green rats are spinning more than a ballerina in this thread. It’s sad and amusing at the same time.
Go buy playstation consoles, people, that way you can stop being salty about games you want to play but are not available on your platform of choice.

Who are the green rats? Xbox fans ?

 

[MasterCornholio]

That should be obvious but that poster sad ps4’s SM is a success because it’s SM… which is not true at all.

The name alone helps sell some copies. However Insomniacs Spider-Man was very successful due to the game being good more than anything. Not really anything having to do with it being an exclusive or having Insomniacs name behind it.

 

[Tripolygon]

Why were the activision SM games failures then?

Let me just say thanks to the developers of this website for adding gif searcher into the text editor.

 

[Swift_Star]

The name alone helps sell some copies. However Insomniacs Spider-Man was very successful due to the game being good more than anything. Not really anything having to do with it being an exclusive or having Insomniacs name behind it.

Tell that to that poster. I Agree with you

 

[Little Chicken]

Good. They dodged a bullet

Honestly yeah. Being heavily invested in Marvel films is such a red flag for me

 

[SportsFan581]

I dont think its console war'n as much as it is killing YET ANOTHER dumbass take like this one, trying to push this agenda

but hey what do i know

Just seems like a statement of fact (as it was known on 2/9/22), Spider-Man was once multi-plat and then became exclusive. It's not like this guy was in the room, same with the rest of us. Before this article broke that's the way everyone thought it went. Sometimes you make a good-faith argument based on information that looks like facts but turns out to be bad assumptions, I know I've done it.

 

[adamsapple]

IP alone doesn't mean good games. Insomniac made a good game.

MS passing on the IP means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Tell that to that poster. I Agree with you

Well you can’t change the past. With that said it’s pretty obvious why the game was so successful.

 

[Klayzer]

Tell that to that poster. I Agree with you

Activision didn't put much of a budget into the Spiderman games before Sony took over the IP.

 

[MasterCornholio]

IP alone doesn't mean good games. Insomniac made a good game.

MS passing on the IP means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Having access to a popular IP helps. But I agree it really depends on the developer and the publisher for the most part. It’s why we have good and bad Spider-Man games for example.

 

[Tripolygon]

Just seems like a statement of fact (as it was known on 2/9/22), Spider-Man was once multi-plat and then became exclusive. It's not like this guy was in the room, same with the rest of us. Before this article broke that's the way everyone thought it went. Sometimes you make a good-faith argument based on information that looked like facts but turns out to be bad assumptions, I know I've done it

Those were not the facts as were known back then.

Literally was said back then that Marvel approached Sony and Sony approached Insomniac who then chose Spiderman.

This is me from 1/25/22.

People keep forgetting it was Marvel that approached Sony about making a game and Sony chose Insomniac. They were allowed to choose any character they wanted and Spiderman was the character they chose. Wolverine was the second character they talked about doing after Spiderman.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Those were not the facts as were known back then.

Literally was said back then that Marvel approached Sony and Sony approached Insomniac who then chose Spiderman.

This is me from Jan this year.

I believe Insomniac were passionate about making those games. That’s pretty important because it’s easier to push out a quality title if the developers are a fan of the IP.

 

[SportsFan581]

IP alone doesn't mean good games. Insomniac made a good game.

MS passing on the IP means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

This. Most of the previous Spider-Man games have been meh, though I know a lot of people loved the PS1 game.

 

[SportsFan581]

Those were not the facts as were known back then.

Literally was said back then that Marvel approached Sony and Sony approached Insomniac who then chose Spiderman.

This is me from 1/25/22.

True. I was talking about the MS passed on Marvel angle. Everyone assumed that Insomniac chose the character and it went exclusive, no one had any idea that the possibility existed for MS to have a shot at it first. That's new.

 

[mansoor1980]

connie booth has a stellar record

 

[jroc74]

True. I was talking about the MS passed on Marvel angle. Everyone assumed that Insomniac chose the character and it went exclusive, no one had any idea that the possibility existed for MS to have a shot at it first. That's new.

Yeah, this is the mind blowing thing.

Again, hind sight and all but...... wow.

 

[MasterCornholio]

True. I was talking about the MS passed on Marvel angle. Everyone assumed that Insomniac chose the character and it went exclusive, no one had any idea that the possibility existed for MS to have a shot at it first. That's new.

It would have been nice to know more details from the Microsoft side of things. I guess back then their priorities were much different and maybe it didn’t make sense for them to work on a Marvel IP. Although it certainly would have benefited them especially with Gamepass. No idea how the game would have turned out but I’m sure Insomniac are not the only ones capable of making good Marvel games.

 

[SportsFan581]

It would have been nice to know more details from the Microsoft side of things. I guess back then their priorities were much different and maybe it didn’t make sense for them to work on a Marvel IP. Although it certainly would have benefited them especially with Gamepass. No idea how the game would have turned out but I’m sure Insomniac are not the only ones capable of making good Marvel games.

There were quite a few second-party releases for MS in the early part of the X1 gen, I guess they picked other things. Seems like they wanted to own the IP, like with QB and RSoR, the article eludes to that as well.

Maybe they would have made a great one, maybe not. We can see with Avengers and GOTG where it can go both ways.

 

[TheGodfather07]

I guess focusing on their ip really meant buying up a bunch of them. Job done.

 

[CatLady]

SSO didn't suck before, but now it does?

Nah it sucked, but Infamous 2nd Son sucked more. In fairness though I didn't finish either one.

 

[GhostOfTsu]

Xbox fans have been using Spider-Man to attack Sony everytime they run out of arguments for years. After the Activision deal in January they were posting those Spider-Man covers everywhere

Now the truth is out. Remember that MS also denied GTA on Xbox so they released on PS2 instead. Those MS execs have no vision at all and their fans always blame Sony for everything.

There was no moneyhats, MS just screwed up.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

I'd like a Spiderman quality level game out of Xbox, Sony have done very well there indeed. Tried Avengers and GotG and after an hour or two with both I had zero interesting in playing those child-like cheesy repetitive games. My kids aren't big on Marvel or DC or superhero stuff anyhow but it was nice of Gamepass to have them both there to trial.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Xbox fans have been using Spider-Man to attack Sony everytime they run out of arguments for years. After the Activision deal in January they were posting those Spider-Man covers everywhere

Now the truth is out. Remember that MS also denied GTA on Xbox so they released on PS2 instead. Those MS execs have no vision at all and their fans always blame Sony for everything.

There was no moneyhats, MS just screwed up.

I thought, despite RROD and the later phase of 360, it was the best Xbox console.

Peter Moore, Robbie Bach, J Allard etc made Xbox competitive and I was excited year on year for games and how they updated the console features/UI and online gaming.

That’s what I loved about Xbox , that era despite some obvious set backs .The OG Xbox was good but 360 was another level imo.

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

MS holding out for that Spawn license.

Coalition spawn seems like a good fit. I feel like the coalition could make a very very good melee based game.

 

[DarkMage619]

Xbox fans have been using Spider-Man to attack Sony everytime they run out of arguments for years. After the Activision deal in January they were posting those Spider-Man covers everywhere

Now the truth is out. Remember that MS also denied GTA on Xbox so they released on PS2 instead. Those MS execs have no vision at all and their fans always blame Sony for everything.

There was no moneyhats, MS just screwed up.

I have no idea what you are talking about 'using Spider-Man to attack Sony' (persecution complex) but there is clearly a stark difference between passing on a completed project like GTA3 and access to IP but needing a studio ready to create a first party project for your platform.

Sony had practically a first party studio ready to take on the task and MS clearly didn't especially back in 2014. There is no evidence whatsoever MS would have been able to do what Insomniac did with the IP.

You may be new to gaming so you might not be aware of the numerous areas Sony 'borrowed' ideas from MS in the gaming space but good on Sony and Insomniac for doing a good thing with the Spider-Man IP. Clearly the title was perfect for the PlayStation fanbase.

 

[SportsFan581]

I'd like a Spiderman quality level game out of Xbox, Sony have done very well there indeed. Tried Avengers and GotG and after an hour or two with both I had zero interesting in playing those child-like cheesy repetitive games. My kids aren't big on Marvel or DC or superhero stuff anyhow but it was nice of Gamepass to have them both there to trial.

I thought GotG was in the same quality range as Spider-Man, tbh. There is a certain amount of repetitiveness to all the superhero stuff, most have a bit of a beat'em up/shoot'em up feel depending on the title. Spider-Man does have a great sense of freedom in movement, you've got to give them that.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I'd like a Spiderman quality level game out of Xbox, Sony have done very well there indeed. Tried Avengers and GotG and after an hour or two with both I had zero interesting in playing those child-like cheesy repetitive games. My kids aren't big on Marvel or DC or superhero stuff anyhow but it was nice of Gamepass to have them both there to trial.

There is a lot of potential for licensed IP.

Take Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles for example, Unreal 5, Ninja Theory or someone like that “lean, mean and on the green machine”.

Take that Matrix demo and have the Coalition make a game out of it. I’d argue the Coalition have the potential to make a cool Transformers game too.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

I thought GotG was in the same quality range as Spider-Man, tbh. There is a certain amount of repetitiveness to all the superhero stuff, most have a bit of a beat'em up/shoot'em up feel depending on the title. Spider-Man does have a great sense of freedom in movement, you've got to give them that.

I guess I found the platforming and linear nature of GotG too simple, I've heard I needed to get further along in the game to open it up but I just didn't want to put that time in when there's better games out there to play with friends. I didn't even see if there was a coop mode, I could see it being more fun with friends and perhaps with more abilities opened up. A little too much story for my liking too.

Totally commend the freedom of movement and "moves" of Sony Spidey games. Just sublime really, I suppose the web slinger is just more interesting and fluid as well as different in its mechanics to enjoy over say Avengers or GotG. I thoroughly enjoyed Batman/Arkham etc and Spidey feels like an evolution of that. I guess both those characters and moves/sandbox just work better.

There is a lot of potential for licensed IP.

Take Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles for example, Unreal 5, Ninja Theory or someone like that “lean, mean and on the green machine”.

Take that Matrix demo and have the Coalition make a game out of it. I’d argue the Coalition have the potential to make a cool Transformers game too.

A coop TMNT game that goes through classic modes, perhaps OG movies IRL modes and modern cartoon modes could be a really cool sort of mash up. Give it multi-verse comical spin and go nuts with the different flavours of TMNT through time, pun intended.

That Matrix demo is really going to be a bar many developers push to make games into that sort of simulated work. Funny it's gaming that The Matrix has pushed the technical limits of to drive a new experience opposed to the latest movie which was directionless garbage. Respect for pushing the envelope with the demo though.

Unreal have really opened the doors to something amazing. At this point it's surprising to me how many still pursue their own engines etc. It's also a bloody shame Halo Infinite and the Halo TV Show didn't integrate that entire process and output with Unreal instead of the hot garbage 343 tried to do themselves.

 

[eastcoastkody]

im in the minority....but theres NOT enuff superhero games. We just get the same stuff constantly. Theres 1000's of superheroes and every game is the same 10 ppl

 

[SlicedBread3]

nah. this is not the full story.

Guy from Marvel reporting back to his boss:

"So yeah I chased Phil up about that Spider-Man deal. There was a lot of static on the phone call, but it sounded like he was saying "Game" and "Pass" a lot. I assume that means he's not interested."

 

[Rea]

Xbox didn't want to spend big money and risk on a new IP and their studios are busy making their own games. Sony has balls and willing to take a risk, being a close partner with Insomniac is also an advantage.

 

[Tripolygon]

Xbox didn't want to spend big money and risk on a new IP

Microsoft spent $100 million to keep rise of the tomb raider off PlayStation for 1 year. How much do you figure Spiderman cost to make?

and their studios are busy making their own games.

Sony did not use their internal studio to make the game, their internal studios were busy working on their own games.

Sony has balls and willing to take a risk,

They all take risks when they want to.

being a close partner with Insomniac is also an advantage.

Insomniac just made Sunset for Microsoft during that time period so they had a close relationship with them too.

Someone made a bad call in hindsight but I'm sure they weighed the options at that time and were ok living with it. It happens all the time. Sony refused to publish Demon's Souls in the west because they did not believe the IP would be successful even though they owned the IP. These things happen.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I mean I think people need to look at this from everyone's perspective.

First, we don't know the financials involved with licensing Spider-Man from Marvel.

Second, 110 million is a lot of money to put into a game that ultimately you aren't going to own rights to the franchise for. So you can see why Microsoft would be hesitant. That 110 million probably makes more sense being put towards first party games that you can own the license to and if successful cross market.

Microsoft looking at Activision's "success" and Activision looking at their track record, it really didn't make sense for either of them to sink more money into "Spider-Man".

Sony Group owning the film rights to Spider-Man probably helped seal the deal here in terms of investment. A successful Spider-Man games helps the brand overall. I doubt they throw 110 million into Wolverine as their first game. Maybe Wolverine gets the same budget as Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2, but you have a proven partnership. You have some expectation that you can sell to the same or similar audience of fans.

It should be noted that Marvel was reaching out to more than just Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. They clearly talked to Square Enix well before Spider-Man launched on PS4. Avengers was announced in 2017 and was probably in development/discussions from 2016 or 2017.

They probably talked to everyone who wasn't Activision, so the idea they were picky about people who didn't have a bad rep when it came to licensed games... I'm not sure I believe it. They're looking for studios with deep pockets who could commit to a big budget game. They were successful with Sony but less so with Square Enix. Which kind of proves Activision and Microsoft correct in their caution.

It took everything for Spider-Man to be the hit that it was. The games on PS1 and PS2 were relatively big hits for the size of the market, but that success really went away with PS3/360 and that Batman games really made their mark. For Microsoft though, put it in the context that they see what Sony's doing with their first party games that they own the IP for and they're looking to replicate that.

During this time, they're focused on Gears of War and Sea of Thieves. The problem for Microsoft is their studios never really grew up or evolved in any way. Look how Naughty Dog and Insomniac evolved and how Rare didn't. In 2000 Rare was more valuable than both Naughty Dog and Insomniac... maybe combined. Now both companies are more valuable than Rare.

The story isn't really written yet on Spider-Man and Wolverine. We'll still see how this plays out. Does this partnership with Sony expand? What happens when that license becomes too large a burden ala EA and FIFA. I think it'll work out for PS5, but we'll see how long the partnership lasts.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Sony did not use their internal studio to make the game, their internal studios were busy working on their own games.

Yes I keep forgetting that Sony bought Insomniac after they made Spider-Man. Always though the success of the game was what motivated them to buy the dev.

 

[Represent.]

Im glad. I cant see any of Microsofts incompetent ass studios doing justice to Spiderman like Insomniac did on their first try.