Bruno_Arrais85
Member
People still caling 2 years old consoles Next-Gen.
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Richard Leadbetter of Digital Foundry: Why the return of 30fps console games is inevitable
- Thread starter remember_spinal
- Start date
- Analysis Game Dev
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
40fps sounds great to me. I prefer 4k/40fps to 1440p/60fps personally.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
100% facts. Normal people don't care if game is 30 or 60FPS. Framerate don't sell. Graphics sell.
NomenNescio
Dual Sense Edger and Blower
People thinking "Pro" consoles will boost the games to 60FPS. PS4 Pro and Xbox One X ran the majority of games at 30FPS too, with increased resolution and graphic settings. This time they will probably advertise Pro consoles as "16K" capable machines with the games running at a factual 4-8K and still 30FPS.
Frame rate is a design choice. A PS2 can run at 60 if the devs prioritize frame rate over other aspects. But as is much easier to sell resolution, well, it is how it is.
Frame rate is a design choice. A PS2 can run at 60 if the devs prioritize frame rate over other aspects. But as is much easier to sell resolution, well, it is how it is.
darrylgorn
Member
Hey, who you calling normal people?
Anyway, again, we don't have to be victims of infidelity. You can please both the normies and nerdies and make even more monies.
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NightmareFarm
Member
Not if the industry collective holds back on graphics just this gen. If we can manage to do that then we can have big graphical leaps again and maintain 60fps for future gens.
Spyxos
Member
Sure, at some point your only option would be indies.
Topher
Identifies as young
PC gamers don't care about frame rate?
Balducci30
Member
Of course it’s inevitable - fps is for PC
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cormack12
Gold Member
I remember starting a thread a while back either the same opinion from a ND artist. Quite interesting on the render times
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Look at the usual suspects with the laugh emojis too
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
What are you waiting for, it's clearly not framerate to you.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
What are you waiting for, it's clearly not framerate to you.
darrylgorn
Member
You can please both parties right now.
It's just an unfortunate misconception that we need to compromise on graphics by including a performance mode in games.
We don't.
In fact we should have tiered performance and quality presets like they do for raytracing. High performance, balanced and high quality.
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The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
So we can get more pixels in 30 fps?
NightmareFarm
Member
I doubt that. The only indisputably next gen looking thing we've seen so far are the UE5 demos which run at 20-30fps.
darrylgorn
Member
So far, it's not looking like it.
Topher
Identifies as young
darrylgorn
Member
There's nothing stopping a developer from making that a high quality mode and having other modes as well. The companies that develop and publish these games want to have a substantial revenue and profit margin which comes with more sales. Since it's not difficult to scale the engine, they shouldn't have any issues doing just that.
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NightmareFarm
Member
Modes only work for switching between high res, RT and FPS. I don't think it's possible to have modes which let you just switch between full blown next gen graphics 30fps and 8th gen graphics at 60fps.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Doubt it these current consoles are going to be 1440p machines fast enough
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
What are you waiting for, it's clearly not framerate to you.
What's wrong with you? Are you really that but hurt that Returnal, The Last of Us Part I and possibly more are coming to PC? Why does it matter?
Let me spell it out for you:
- A Ansphn said that future PlayStation first party games won't be locked to 30FPS because games Horizon Forbidden West or God of War Ragnarök have options for higher framerates.
- I pointed out that these games are last gen at core so no wonder PS5 can run them at higher framerate.
- You listed 4 more games that are PS5 only and can run at 60FPS.
- I said that these games could easily work at PS4 at lower resolution, fidelity and 30FPS and that we will be able to test it once we have PC ports. But no, you have to make it about PCMR and PC vs. consoles.
If people are happy with graphical fidelity and design (AI, level complexity, interactivity, destruction etc.) of games like Forza Horizon 5 or God of War Ragnarök then no problem, 60FPS is here to stay. If you want to see a true next-generational games then you better kiss that 60FPS goodbye.
And yes, high framerate is important to me. I said that it's not important to normal people. People who don't spend their time on gaming forums.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
What's wrong with you? Are you really that but hurt that Returnal, The Last of Us Part I and possibly more are coming to PC? Why does it matter?
Let me spell it out for you:
What's so hard to understand? Seriously.
- A Ansphn said that future PlayStation first party games won't be locked to 30FPS because games Horizon Forbidden West or God of War Ragnarök have options for higher framerates.
- I pointed out that these games are last gen at core so no wonder PS5 can run them at higher framerate.
- You listed 4 more games that are PS5 only and can run at 60FPS.
- I said that these games could easily work at PS4 at lower resolution, fidelity and 30FPS and that we will be able to test it once we have PC ports. But no, you have to make it about PCMR and PC vs. consoles.
If people are happy with graphical fidelity and design (AI, level complexity, interactivity, destruction etc.) of games like Forza Horizon 5 or God of War Ragnarök then no problem, 60FPS is here to stay. If you want to see a true next-generational games then you better kiss that 60FPS goodbye.
And yes, high framerate is important to me. I said that it's not important to normal people. People who don't spend their time on gaming forums.
Keep going.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Keep going.
You have nothing to say? Expected. Let me give you an advice. Here's a nice quote, take it to heart:
darrylgorn
Member
Here's an example of the scalability options available to UE5 devs for the editor. Note, this one is managing to scale down for performance on a gtx1060, which is pretty impressive:
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Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
Nah I don't buy it.
Come up with tricks to get around it. More powerful hardware isn't an excuse to waste resources. There's no need to be computing hundreds of thousands of rats when they're just delegated to on-rail set pieces
Come up with tricks to get around it. More powerful hardware isn't an excuse to waste resources. There's no need to be computing hundreds of thousands of rats when they're just delegated to on-rail set pieces
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
I won’t lose any sleep over this. 30fps is just fine. N64 has prepared me well.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
So much irony in that quote.
01011001
Banned
you said, if it was a bigger team it would run at 60fps, I say if they ran the game at a lower resolution and/or lower settings it would run at 60fps as well.
and they already have such a settings profile on Series S that also still looks absolutely presentable.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
If it was a bigger team, this game would have a 60fps mode because they would have more resources to optimize their heavy in-house engine better. It's quite simple.
And no, changing the .ini settings on the consoles won't run it at a close to locked 60, when they can't even get it close to locked 30/40 now. They need a bit more cooking to get the above 60 ceiling for that mode. Which those games tend to run 70-90 unlocked.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
If that's the case, if doesn't bode well on the PC side and everyone will need more expensive CPUs.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Hard disagree.
60fps isn't a reason for Mid-gen refreshers.
When the game can't hold 30fps on the simplest of games then we can talk.
BigbyTheSheriff
Member
Sometimes it feels like 60 FPS console players are worse than PC Master Race, lol.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
What I meant is faster hardware gives prettier graphic in 30 fps.
There were games running 120 fps in the start at this gen. Then 60 fps. Now 30 fps.
A mid gen refresh or a next console will do the same.
No matter how powerful hardware you get, the developers will always priorities good looking graphic in low framerate over gameplay.
01011001
Banned
the Series S is basically a locked 30fps with small dips.
the Series S has 1/3 of the GPU power, a slower CPU and slower memory...
the Series S runs the game at settings that still look very decent.
we would need to assume that the game is hard CPU limited if it can't hit 60fps at Series S settings.
I so far haven't seen evidence for that being the case.
even with the swarms of rats in the DF video the Series S had a higher framerate than the PS5, while having a slightly slower CPU, which indicates a GPU limitation in at leats these cases.
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And that's why I love next gen games having 60 fps modes as a priority. If we get to console CPUs being maxed at 30 we are screwed on PC.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
There are a lot of concessions made graphically to get it there.
On the X and the PS5 it's not locked in either 30 or 40, which goes back to my optimization point.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Spiderman 2 will also have a 60fps
mode. Guaranteed.
Looks like someone needs attention.
mode. Guaranteed.
Looks like someone needs attention.
Ghost of Caelid
Banned
2 games with no 60fps and the syk is falling. Demons souls, fortza, HFW, returnal, etc all have them and are far more rigorous than gotham knights. i fully expect 90% of games to have the option including starfield and Spiderman.
Markio128
Member
Only time will tell. I still think all the late PS5/Xbox games will have a 60fps option because that is the standard that has now been set and I believe it is much easier to scale games on the latest consoles than it was on the previous gen. And it isn’t like the PS4 received a plethora of 60fps 1st party games in the first year or two before they started going 30fps, so the comparison is a little off.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Was speaking about this below the DF Plague Tale, you are absolutely correct.
Also making custom engine for your game with small team, while deploying game to a lot of platforms, isn't really way to go.
And if anything, there is basically no difference between ultra and low:
Then maybe the game engine isn't really that scalable. Leadbetter knows very little and giving examples of two games, which looks like polished last gen games, MEH.
Wasn't recently new version of Unreal 5 where they aiming at 60fps instead of 30? Also like it or not 60FPS sells, people won't buy 120hz TVs, to play 30-40FPS games, if anything we now have VRR on both consoles, so why cap shit at 30/40? Makes zero sense.
Whitecrow
Banned
30 fps were never meant to disappear. Since, you know, they are playable, devs know that, and they will raise the graphics bar as high as they can sacrificing fps, as they have been doing since almost two decades now.
If anyone thought the opposite, was pure delusion, or not knowing how this works.
If anyone thought the opposite, was pure delusion, or not knowing how this works.
01011001
Banned
on SX and PS5 it runs pretty high settings,
the only way you'd convince me that it can't run at 60fps without additional optimization is if we had a way to run the Series S settings on Series X with the framerate lock set to 60fps.
I say this because on my PC, with a 3060ti, I have to run at 1440p + DLSS Quality mode and hand picked settings to get a 60fps lock.
1440p + DLSS Quality is about 900p native btw.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
WTF dude, I am the one saying it needs additional optimization that a larger team and more resources could have afforded their heavy in-house engine.
We have come full circle.