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[Sinatar]

Skipping BG1 is silly, it's a great game in it's own right with lots of great content in it. Durlag's Tower is still the best dungeon in the series and honestly one of the best dungeons in any RPG ever.

Siege of Dragonspear is also really good, better then BG2's expansion Throne of Bhaal.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Yeah it's a really great game. Would love a remaster but doubt that'll ever happen.

I have good news...

They remastered both as Enhanced Editions:


Some new content, and BG1 even got an expansion (Siege of Dragonspear).

 

[Uriah]

I've not played BG1/BG2 or Planescape Torment xD I do not know what is wrong with me.

How did Torment: Tides of Numenera turn out? It goes for cheap as shit on PS4, but I'm going to assume it might be a dodgy port/unpatched? (yes I know PC is best, just came into my mind as I recently seen it on Amazon for like £12 in passing).

edit: I also own a copy of Divinity Original Sin which I haven't played either...

I really enjoyed Tides of Numenera. Not as good as Planescape, but that's a really hard target to hit.

 

[justsomeguy]

I have good news...

They remastered both as Enhanced Editions:


Some new content, and BG1 even got an expansion (Siege of Dragonspear).

and bg2 is chump change in the steam sale

 

[GenericUser]

I've not played BG1/BG2 or Planescape Torment xD I do not know what is wrong with me.

How did Torment: Tides of Numenera turn out? It goes for cheap as shit on PS4, but I'm going to assume it might be a dodgy port/unpatched? (yes I know PC is best, just came into my mind as I recently seen it on Amazon for like £12 in passing).

edit: I also own a copy of Divinity Original Sin which I haven't played either...

I'd say stay away from the ps4 Version of tides. It's loading times are horrendous. Also general game performance is shit considering the hardware it runs on.

On a proper PC on the other hand...

 

[Audioboxer]

I really enjoyed Tides of Numenera. Not as good as Planescape, but that's a really hard target to hit.

I'd say stay away from the ps4 Version of tides. It's loading times are horrendous. Also general game performance is shit considering the hardware it runs on.

On a proper PC on the other hand...

Cheers. It just caught my eye because I seen £12. Actually a bit cheaper than PC! Although I'm sure it often goes on sale on PC. You cannot beat mouse and keyboard for these types of games. I think in recent times only the simplicity of Diablo 3 ended up turning out BETTER with a controller.

BG1 and 2 can be purchased for like £6 each. I might do it and finally see what the fuss was about. I think there is some "new" BG1 expansion as well, made by the devs who put out the enchanced edition. Not too keen on it (it costs more than the base game!), and to be honest from reading this topic it might be best just to jump straight to BG2.

For someone who likes RPGs it's apalling I haven't played the BG series (or IWD)/Planescape Torment/Tides/Divinity/Pillars and probably more. Fallout 2 is another! I think young me had something against isometric games lol. Although I did love Diablo 2.

 

[jtb]

BG2 is really good, but I've long felt that it's biggest strength is the sheer size and density of the game. There's so much high quality level content to complete, particularly with regards to side quests and little nooks and crannies.

The core gameplay can be something of a chore and the narrative isn't all that compelling. But it's a comprehensive product that puts it all together in a way that we just haven't gotten since. Personally, I think KOTOR is the superior BioWare game (stronger narrative, less tedious - if shallower - combat, lightsabers) and prefer the Obsidian/Interplay type RPGs instead.

But BG2 is damn good.

 

[Morokh]

I've played the first one like a dozen times, hell I still have my favorite final character save saved on my computer and an external hard drive, yet no matter how many times I've tried over the years I just can't get into the second one xD

 

[Baalzebup]

I've played the first one like a dozen times, hell I still have my favorite final character save saved on my computer and an external hard drive, yet no matter how many times I've tried over the years I just can't get into the second one xD

That is pretty weird. BG II is the superior product in almost every imaginable aspect.

 

[Shinypogs]

I keep meaning to get balders gate 1&2 during sales but I'm always either distracted or swamped by other games I told myself I'd finish before finding new stuff. I've still gotta get through the NWN diamond edition I got for free a while back, also the dark arisen dlc for dragons dogma and at least one more quest line in kingdoms of amalur before I can justify buying more games. I love long rpg's but i feel bad when i have a massive backlog. I can't even buy tyranny and I've been wanting that so bad but must not add to the backlog.

Also while I can't speak for the elder scrolls as a whole I will defend the loot in Morrowind as being fucking awesome and occasionally challenging to get depending on if you've figured out how to break the game already.

 

[xuchu]

The GOAT.

 

[bati]

For someone who likes RPGs it's apalling I haven't played the BG series (or IWD)/Planescape Torment/Tides/Divinity/Pillars and probably more. Fallout 2 is another! I think young me had something against isometric games lol. Although I did love Diablo 2.

Nothing wrong with that. These games are a little...taxing, so to speak. You have to be focused when you play them and despite the quest logs and such you often have to keep mental track of many different things. If you stop for a few weeks they're generally hard to get back into, so a lot of people end up restarting their campaigns in such situations or even drop the game. If you're looking for a good entry point then go with Pillars, it has the complexity of the older games but it also features many things that make it more appealing to modern/newer rpg players, plus it has about 2 years of solid balancing efforts and bugfixing behind it. If you understand its systems you won't have much trouble adjusting to AD&D should that end up being your next stop.

Most of the games you mentioned have also received either Enhanced Editions or have very robust mod support - Fallout 2 for example is fantastic with hi-res patches and mods that restore cut content. Also the premier game if you're looking to roleplay a witty/sarcastic character, some lines are pure gold. Communities built around these games are also great so you should have no problem getting some help if you need character build advice and such.

https://youtu.be/DjWWuUDtSaE

Check out his BG retrospective, lots of great insight.

Finally had time to listen to some of this - great stuff, subbed instantly.

 

[Kayhan]

It is very good. Not my favorite RPG of all time though.

 

[killatopak]

I can't seem to get into this game. Although I did try it before the hd remaster.

Any tips for a beginner who's unfamiliar with the franchise as well as DnD rules?

 

[Bl@de]

I don't like the gameplay of infinity engine games but I have to agree that BG2 is up there. Usually it's Planescape Torment, BG2 and Ultima 7 when it comes to the Top CRPG of all time. I prefer Gothic 2 and Wizardry 8 though^^

 

[Audioboxer]

Nothing wrong with that. These games are a little...taxing, so to speak. You have to be focused when you play them and despite the quest logs and such you often have to keep mental track of many different things. If you stop for a few weeks they're generally hard to get back into, so a lot of people end up restarting their campaigns in such situations or even drop the game. If you're looking for a good entry point then go with Pillars, it has the complexity of the older games but it also features many things that make it more appealing to modern/newer rpg players, plus it has about 2 years of solid balancing efforts and bugfixing behind it. If you understand its systems you won't have much trouble adjusting to AD&D should that end up being your next stop.

Most of the games you mentioned have also received either Enhanced Editions or have very robust mod support - Fallout 2 for example is fantastic with hi-res patches and mods that restore cut content. Also the premier game if you're looking to roleplay a witty/sarcastic character, some lines are pure gold. Communities built around these games are also great so you should have no problem getting some help if you need character build advice and such.



Finally had time to listen to some of this - great stuff, subbed instantly.

I actually noticed Planescape: Torment: Enhanced Edition has just came out so I bought it and have started playing. Running around using a scalpel on zombies for items... yup, this is going to be good ;D

There's 15% off on Steam just now, so it was cheaper than GOG ~ http://store.steampowered.com/app/466300/Planescape_Torment_Enhanced_Edition/

BG2 will come next. I've just always wanted to play Planescape Torment and I couldn't be bothered trying to mod it myself. It's also a little less taxing on all of the D&D mechanics it seems, and the character is obviously pre-made from a lore point of view. I've read many say it's more of an adventure game.

I don't like the gameplay of infinity engine games but I have to agree that BG2 is up there. Usually it's Planescape Torment, BG2 and Ultima 7 when it comes to the Top CRPG of all time. I prefer Gothic 2 and Wizardry 8 though^^

My man! Young me was enjoying Gothic and then Gothic 2 whilst everyone else was playing these games lol. Piranha Bytes when they actually created good Euro-jank instead of simply... jank. I think the extent of my dealing with tactical RPGs was tied up in FF turn based combat. As isometric RPGs were pretty in-depth I think the younger me just preferred things like Gothic. In saying that, I got right into Neverwinter Nights, so I really do not know why I skipped all these classics for soo long..

 

[FunkyPajamas]

My favorite RPG saga, not even a contest for me. "WRPG" at its finest.

 

[Farks!]

I agree wholeheartedly with OP.

 

[elhav]

Is the gameplay still fun? It looks a bit outdated, and I know nothing about D&D(I've heard knowing the basics really helps). I want to play it mainly for the writing and characters, but I'm afraid the gameplay will be so tedious I'll drop it halfway.

 

[GreatestHits]

I love playing it on my tablet. It's definitely GOAT stuff. But that combat is so god-damned demanding on your time and attention. I'm stuck on a fight in a dungeon and can't get past it (I think I can lower the difficulty) and I just want to go questing on the surface.

Is the gameplay still fun? It looks a bit outdated, and I know nothing about D&D(I've heard knowing the basics really helps). I want to play it mainly for the writing and characters, but I'm afraid the gameplay will be so tedious I'll drop it halfway.

Haha. Yeah. You probably will. But it's such a good game, you might force yourself to learn it's archaic systems. DND is an investment. But the quests the world the writing the lore, doesn't get matched in any other game I've played.

 

[bati]

I can't seem to get into this game. Although I did try it before the hd remaster.

Any tips for a beginner who's unfamiliar with the franchise as well as DnD rules?

Any preferences regarding alignment/roleplaying?

If not then Inquisitor (paladin) is a very strong starting pick, there's only one other paladin (also inquisitor) in the game so you won't have any overlap. Focus on twohanded swords and twohanded style. After that look up a list of recruitable npcs (beware of minor spoilers), pick 5 that have good or neutral alignment, make sure you have one thief, one divine and one arcane caster. Jan is a good choice for thief (his spell selection lags a bit but he can do in a pinch), Aerie works as both divine and arcane caster but I prefer to have either Anomen or Jaheira for my healer/buff slot. Fill out the rest with damage dealers and try to make sure they don't share proficiencies so you can distribute the loot more evenly. For healers you'll want to focus on healing spells and buffs, for mages it's crucial that you get spells that can take down enemy defenses - you can get tips on best per level spells through quick google search, and once you have that covered you can start exploring the spell repertoire at your leisure. For thac0 and armor just remember that lower = better, but items that ADD these stats (such as ring of princes that adds +1 to armor) actually lower them on the char sheet which is intended - just so you don't get confused. Once you start playing you'll grasp the basics quickly, the ruleset is not as complex as it initially seems.

 

[Mutagenic]

Is the gameplay still fun? It looks a bit outdated, and I know nothing about D&D(I've heard knowing the basics really helps). I want to play it mainly for the writing and characters, but I'm afraid the gameplay will be so tedious I'll drop it halfway.

I'm in the same boat. I don't know or really care about D&D but this sounds like a must-play.

 

[Sillverrr]

My favourite game ever. It's possible to install so many high quality mods, you can literally be doing side quests until the end of time. You WILL burn out eventually if you play it this way, but goddamn, if you want content, this game delivers. RIP Bioware. Larian and Obsidian are my current hopes for this type of experience.

 

[GenericUser]

I'm in the same boat. I don't know or really care about D&D but this sounds like a must-play.

to be honest, I never played a game with the D&D ruleset before and after Baldurs Gate. But Baldurs Gate alone is SO good, that it is easily worth learing the rules of the D&D games.

Baldurs Gate 2 is so damn good, that it eclipses all other GOAT RPGs that are out there. Call it Witcher, New Vegas, Morrowind - you Name it. They ALL have to bow down before the Emperor of Emperors that is Baldurs Gate 2, and they are all absolutely wonderful games on their own.

I'm not even exaggerating. The content that has been injected in BG2 is as diversive, as fantastic, as well thought out, as well presented and as believeable as it can get. As I said, this RPG cannot be topped. It is simply not possible. The adventure and experiences you'll get out of this game are priceless, every gamer who is interested in fantasy role playing games needs to play this game to define him/herself.

Baldurs Gate 2 carries more depth in a single city district then other RPGs in their entirety. It's hard do describe, especially for a non native english speaker like me, but Baldurs Gate 2 is like Lighning in a Bottle. Its THE perfect CRPG. It's as close to perfection as I can imagine anything (not only Games) can get. It not only deserves the praise, it it entitled to the praise.

 

[fireflame]

The only game that can compete with BG2 is Fallout 2. Depending on the mood I pick one of those two as the best rpg ever made.

 

[elhav]

Haha. Yeah. You probably will. But it's such a good game, you might force yourself to learn it's archaic systems. DND is an investment. But the quests the world the writing the lore, doesn't get matched in any other game I've played.

In that case I find it hard to be worth going into. If I enjoy a game I shouldn't have the urge to drop it midway, no matter how good the writing and story are.

to be honest, I never played a game with the D&D ruleset before and after Baldurs Gate. But Baldurs Gate alone is SO good, that it is easily worth learing the rules of the D&D games.

Baldurs Gate 2 is so damn good, that it eclipses all other GOAT RPGs that are out there. Call it Witcher, New Vegas, Morrowind - you Name it. They ALL have to bow down before the Emperor of Emperors that is Baldurs Gate 2, and they are all absolutely wonderful games on their own.

I'm not even exaggerating. The content that has been injected in BG2 is as diversive, as fantastic, as well thought out, as well presented and as believeable as it can get. As I said, this RPG cannot be topped. It is simply not possible. The adventure and experiences you'll get out of this game are priceless, every gamer who is interested in fantasy role playing games needs to play this game to define him/herself.

Baldurs Gate 2 carries more depth in a single city district then other RPGs in their entirety. It's hard do describe, especially for a non native english speaker like me, but Baldurs Gate 2 is like Lighning in a Bottle. Its THE perfect CRPG. It's as close to perfection as I can imagine anything (not only Games) can get. It not only deserves the praise, it it entitled to the praise.

I know you are honest, but this really sounds like a hyperbole.

It makes me really curious about the game, but, like I said, I'm not sure the archaic gameplay will let me enjoy this greatness you describe here. You and many others are clearly super enthusiastic about the game still, after so many years since its release. Might have to at least give it a shot, all things considered.

 

[Jamaro85]

Enhanced Edition is great out of the box, no further tinkering is necessary.

Wow, 66% off ($6.79) on Steam right now. (Edit: Also on sale on GOG for $6.66 - thanks bati).

I'm guessing Baldur's 2 Complete on GOG is not the same as this and would need some modification to be more palatable? What does EE give you out of the box that isn't in the original?

Edit: Alright I stopped being lazy and did some searching. I've read a couple people saying Complete is more of the original experience and might be the way to go if you've never played, but EE comes with modern resolution support, bug fixes (supposedly weren't many to begin with), a zoom feature, additional characters, and no load times. It seems that EE was created with an enhanced version of the Infinity Engine too.

 

[bati]

Bugfixes, UI improvements (which are pretty good), compatibility with modern systems. Most of the modding community is now also using EEs as the base games for their efforts.

Fwiw GOG also has EEs on sale right now.

 

[Jamaro85]

Bugfixes, UI improvements (which are pretty good), compatibility with modern systems. Most of the modding community is now also using EEs as the base games for their efforts.

Fwiw GOG also has EEs on sale right now.

Damn, seems like I have no excuse not to play this now. I believe when I tried playing it years ago I just installed the Complete edition without even throwing any mods on it. So it wasn't just being overwhelmed with the mechanics but it was also the outdated feel of it all. Gonna have to jump to this after finishing PoE.

 

[GreatestHits]

In that case I find it hard to be worth going into. If I enjoy a game I shouldn't have the urge to drop it midway, no matter how good the writing and story are.

I know you are honest, but this really sounds like a hyperbole.

It makes me really curious about the game, but, like I said, I'm not sure the archaic gameplay will let me enjoy this greatness you describe here. You and many others are clearly super enthusiastic about the game still, after so many years since its release. Might have to at least give it a shot, all things considered.

There is a ton of Hyperbole around the game, and going into it today is not the same as it was 17 years ago. The combat is not easy to get into like modern games. But it's complexity can be seen as one of it's strengths. Play it and see if you like it, you'll know quickly. If it isn't a dealbreaker, then this will be one of your favorite games of all-time, and you'll appreciate the combat to some extent. I would advise Pillars of eternity if you're truly concerned. It just doesn't have that 'firing-on-all-cylandars, everything-just-came-together-perfect' type of magic that BG2 had for me.

 

[killatopak]

Any preferences regarding alignment/roleplaying?

If not then Inquisitor (paladin) is a very strong starting pick, there's only one other paladin (also inquisitor) in the game so you won't have any overlap. Focus on twohanded swords and twohanded style. After that look up a list of recruitable npcs (beware of minor spoilers), pick 5 that have good or neutral alignment, make sure you have one thief, one divine and one arcane caster. Jan is a good choice for thief (his spell selection lags a bit but he can do in a pinch), Aerie works as both divine and arcane caster but I prefer to have either Anomen or Jaheira for my healer/buff slot. Fill out the rest with damage dealers and try to make sure they don't share proficiencies so you can distribute the loot more evenly. For healers you'll want to focus on healing spells and buffs, for mages it's crucial that you get spells that can take down enemy defenses - you can get tips on best per level spells through quick google search, and once you have that covered you can start exploring the spell repertoire at your leisure. For thac0 and armor just remember that lower = better, but items that ADD these stats (such as ring of princes that adds +1 to armor) actually lower them on the char sheet which is intended - just so you don't get confused. Once you start playing you'll grasp the basics quickly, the ruleset is not as complex as it initially seems.

Thanks.

I prefer to be a good guy on first playthroughs but I like to be an anti-hero if I'm role playing. Do I have to play BG 1 to understand the story or can I go straight in?

 

[bati]

Thanks.

I prefer to be a good guy on first playthroughs but I like to be an anti-hero if I'm role playing. Do I have to play BG 1 to understand the story or can I go straight in?

You can start with BG2, the few references to the first game are easy to spot and you can always look them up if you're curious.

 

[Mutagenic]

to be honest, I never played a game with the D&D ruleset before and after Baldurs Gate. But Baldurs Gate alone is SO good, that it is easily worth learing the rules of the D&D games.

Baldurs Gate 2 is so damn good, that it eclipses all other GOAT RPGs that are out there. Call it Witcher, New Vegas, Morrowind - you Name it. They ALL have to bow down before the Emperor of Emperors that is Baldurs Gate 2, and they are all absolutely wonderful games on their own.

I'm not even exaggerating. The content that has been injected in BG2 is as diversive, as fantastic, as well thought out, as well presented and as believeable as it can get. As I said, this RPG cannot be topped. It is simply not possible. The adventure and experiences you'll get out of this game are priceless, every gamer who is interested in fantasy role playing games needs to play this game to define him/herself.

Baldurs Gate 2 carries more depth in a single city district then other RPGs in their entirety. It's hard do describe, especially for a non native english speaker like me, but Baldurs Gate 2 is like Lighning in a Bottle. Its THE perfect CRPG. It's as close to perfection as I can imagine anything (not only Games) can get. It not only deserves the praise, it it entitled to the praise.

Cool. I feel like I'm a patient player and will do the legwork needed to get the most out of a game if its worth it. I actually love the old graphics.

 

[SRG01]

I know you are honest, but this really sounds like a hyperbole.

It makes me really curious about the game, but, like I said, I'm not sure the archaic gameplay will let me enjoy this greatness you describe here. You and many others are clearly super enthusiastic about the game still, after so many years since its release. Might have to at least give it a shot, all things considered.

It is not hyperbole. Most RPG players will hands-down say that BG2 is the gold standard of all RPGs. In fact, I would divide all RPGs to "before BG2" and "after BG2". Icewind Dale 2 is a close second, purely because of the epicness of some setpieces in that game.

A question for everyone: both Black Isle and Bioware worked on BG2, but which studio took the lead for the quest design and characters/dialog?

 

[Sinatar]

It is not hyperbole. Most RPG players will hands-down say that BG2 is the gold standard of all RPGs. In fact, I would divide all RPGs to "before BG2" and "after BG2". Icewind Dale 2 is a close second, purely because of the epicness of some setpieces in that game.

A question for everyone: both Black Isle and Bioware worked on BG2, but which studio took the lead for the quest design and characters/dialog?

Black Isle had very little development involvement in the BG games.

Interplay had separate brands for their various genre divisions. Their RPG's were released under Black Isle, their strategy games were released under 14° East, etc. But in addition to those brands they also had development teams using those names, so it caused some confusion.

BI acted as producers on BG 1 & 2 providing feedback and the like, but all the actual development and design happened at Bioware.

 

[Tragicomedy]

I've purchased it three times (OG physical, Steam enhanced, and iOS). Amazing game.

Release it on the Switch and I'll buy it a fourth.

 

[superdeluxe]

Quick question.

Any of you grew up on CRPGs from 80s to mid 90s?

Or is your RPG prime mainly in the late 90s to early 2000s?

Might and Magic, Wizardry, Bards Tale, Ultima, SSI gold box/silver box series into BG and Black Isle

 

[QuantumZebra]

What do you mean? It's still the best RPG ever made. Hands down.

this

its in the GOAT club along with Deus Ex, System Shock 2, and KOTOR.

 

[keuja]

BG2 + Throne of bhaal is still my personal GOAT.
Even with huge open world, no modern games have given me that sense of discovery and adventure. I like Pillar of Eternity but they're not at that level yet.

 

[Social]

I can't get into any available versions of it, it aged badly and it just instantly loses my attention.

 

[bati]

I can't get into any available versions of it, it aged badly and it just instantly loses my attention.

Which part? The graphics? IMO static backgrounds and sprites age as well as they can. Many of the UI shortcomings got fixed in the EE. As for mechanics, they are what they are I suppose.

There are still some 'issues' though, quest items are not marked so it's quite easy to lose or sell them.

 

[ElyrionX]

Probably my favourite RPG of all time.

Replayed it last year on the iPad. Was great fun but ToB was quite a slog. Plus it was stupid that you could miss stuff from SoA and not be able to go back and grab it in ToB. So annoying.

 

[borges]

Yes sir. Baldurs II was THE RPG game of my childhood.

 

[Audioboxer]

At 66% off I had to buy this as well. Sale lasts a few more days.

For a first time playthrough and to enjoy the story with some mild combat challenge is it best just to roll a fighter and hack/slash away? (whilst relying on party members?)

 

[Vincent Grayson]

The biggest hurdle to playing BG2 today is that 2nd edition D&D rules are the fucking worst, and the actual combat part of the gameplay is rarely fun.

What I wouldn't give for a competent D&D game to be made today with more modern rules.

 

[llien]

I'm new to the series, is BG 1 also good?
Are gog.com versions ok?

 

[Audioboxer]

I'm new to the series, is BG 1 also good?
Are gog.com versions ok?

I'm skipping 1 and going straight to 2 after reading this thread. Steam is also 10p cheaper for me

http://store.steampowered.com/app/257350/Baldurs_Gate_II_Enhanced_Edition/

vs

https://www.gog.com/game/baldurs_gate_2_enhanced_edition

 

[Turin Turambar]

I have a little problem. I like RPGS but:

-I don't like D&D setting
-nor D&D rules
-I don't care for party/build optimization


So I think I'm not in the audience for this game?

 

[Audioboxer]

I have a little problem. I like RPGS but:

-I don't like D&D setting
-nor D&D rules
-I don't care for party/build optimization


So I think I'm not in the audience for this game?

I've noticed there's a difficulty slider and a super easy mode. I'm going to play on easy to try and just enjoy the story/journey.

 

[BossDarkseid]

I have a little problem. I like RPGS but:

-I don't like D&D setting
-nor D&D rules
-I don't care for party/build optimization


So I think I'm not in the audience for this game?

Sadly, no

Out of interest have you played games like Shadowrun Returns?

They might act as a gateway drug for you. I think the main problem with BG1 + 2 nowadays is that the interface is pretty poor and unintuitive, imo. Something like Pillars of Eternity was a step in the right direction in terms of having tooltips for lots of things that helped explain things but it still feels like a lot of Infinity Engine inspired RPGs have...inelegant UI(?)...