You don't really need to optimize the pary and build, you just need to recruit a variety of characters to tackle different situations.
However the game is D&D to the core so thats a bigger problem.
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17 years later Baldur's Gate 2 is still one of the best rpgs ever made
- Thread starter bati
- Start date
You don't really need to optimize the pary and build, you just need to recruit a variety of characters to tackle different situations.
However the game is D&D to the core so thats a bigger problem.
bati
Member
Properly specced fighter is monstrous and is one of the top contenders for raw sustained damage, which makes it a very solid starting pick. Inquisitor paladin is also a great starting choice, it's a pretty straightforward kit that comes with some nice utility that can really ruin the day for enemy casters.
TrueDefault
Member
I've bought the original versions, but it kept crashing on my machine. Maybe I'll give remastered a chance.
Since the second one is the best one, is it possible to only play the second game?
Since the second one is the best one, is it possible to only play the second game?
bati
Member
Yes, absolutely.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
I liked the first one :/
Stigfinnare
Member
First one is actually good and in some ways I like it more. It's like a prologue to 2. It's not mandatory but I feel you get most out of the saga by playing all of it, from the beginning. It's an epic journey.
Audioboxer
Member
Yeah I'm looking at paladin inquisitor. It's my understanding this is a good roll for a build
Ran the auto-roller for 20 mins lol.
What about skills for a paladin inquisitor? 2 *s in two handed sword, two handed weapon style and then the last 2 *s? Projectiles of some sorts?
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yep, probably my favorite game ever. And I especially agree with you on the loot.
B-B-Bomba!
Member
This is very helpful, thank you! - and thanks to the poster who asked, also.
I've also just bought EE in the sale as a result of this discussion. I'm saving it for a rainy day (uh, I'm saving it for my backlog), but I will very much appreciate this advice when the time comes. I know nothing of D&D. I should probably finish PoE as well first.
Is there anything extra content-wise in the EE that sort of smudges the 'authentic' experience? I do find it frustrating picking up a 'gold' edition years later with a stack of DLC included, and no way to tell which bits are what, or to play the game as originally intended.
bati
Member
Yeah I'm looking at paladin inquisitor. It's my understanding this is a good roll for a build
Ran the auto-roller for 20 mins lol.
Absolutely disgusting. I can hear Irenicus quaking in his boots from here.
I am so using that tool when I inevitably start another campaign next week, this time with an evil party.
When it comes to BG2EE, no. There are some new companions but they enhance (no pun intended) the experience because they cover many of the class/alignment/role gaps left by the original developers. Baldur's Gate is somewhat biased towards good parties so having a few new evil npcs available makes things much easier for those of more nefarious nature.
Audioboxer
Member
I found it when googling builds lol. It's kind of cheating but not really cheating. Basically just makes your mouse do the clicking for you. Only left it for 20 mins as it makes the PC unusable as the mouse is locked in place/automated. I guess it could be possible for a total 18/18/18/18/18/18 roll at 100% LOL.
Mines is 18/18/18/15/15/18. As I asked above in an edit you didn't catch what do you recommend for the last two skill *s? Throwing axes/one handed of some sorts or? I copied your two handed sword/two handed style from the previous page. Cheers
edit: I noticed the Paladin is locked to lawful good, but I read BG2 pretty much encourages you to play good. I assume you still have some flexibility over handling quests and the lock is just your starting alignment? I don't mind playing good anyway tbh, morality is more fun in something like KOTOR where the dark side really changes things and is funny.
bati
Member
It doesn't really matter where you put the last pips, once you get Carsomyr you won't be using anything else, trust me. You can look up a list of all unique weapons, see if any of the onehanders catch your attention and put the points there.
As for alignment/reputation - as a paladin (and ranger) you are somewhat more constrained because if you go too low you will become Fallen and lose access to your abilities. If you want to play as an evil paladin you can try the Blackguard kit. But otherwise yes, your alignment determines starting rep, how you handle quests is decided on the spot - just keep in mind that your companions will have something to say about how you handle things.
Audioboxer
Member
Cool, thanks. That's okay I don't mind roleplaying good but it's nice not to be completely locked out of decision trees for the occasional asshole response LOL. Becoming fallen should just auto change your kit to the evil Paladin! Speaking of kits, is it possible to change in-game or is it during character creation only?
You can still choose various morally dubious choices, and it is entirely possible to become a Fallen Paladin, which means losing pretty much everything that makes Paladin something other than a slightly weaker Fighter.
As for the other weapon skills, something like a one handed blunt weapon might be a good complement. There is a very good magic flail hidden away in a particular quest, and one of the most powerful weapons in the game, and carrying over even to ToB, is a Warhammer (though the steps to acquire that one are obscure indeed.)
As for the stats, you'll want to decrease Int and raise Wis. Paladins simply have no use for Intelligence.
bati
Member
Character creation only. I don't know if you can even do it with the EEKeeper, I've never tried.
Audioboxer
Member
Early on?
I wouldn't plan on becoming a Fallen Paladin unless it was stupidly easy to do so by accident. I'll roleplay good but I do sometimes like a bit of experimentation with tasks.
I do not think it's possible to start the game with unspent stat points. Because of my roll at over 100 I need to spend them.
edit: Okay it is possible. Do unspent points carry into the game to be used???
Okay so despite my earlier post about me needing to finish some other games before buying more games I'm getting tempted again after watching a bit of a let's play. I do want an honest opinion on the story though. Does it drag like the main campaign of Neverwinter nights? (I've heard the Dlc for that game is better and I will play those campaigns but it felt important to.try the main story first). No nostalgia goggles no "It's ok for the time" is the story in 1 and 2 good enough to be really motivating to keep going. Will I genuinely feel for my party members and want to achieve whatever the end goal is alongside them. Will there be gut punch decisions I have to make with real consequences.
If yes I'll buy both and get started right away with some sort of druid build since I love d&d druids.
If yes I'll buy both and get started right away with some sort of druid build since I love d&d druids.
bati
Member
Yeah the Flail can be acquired relatively early. It's not exactly easy but a level ~10 party shouldn't have much problem. The thing is, you can also get the sword pretty early which makes it by far the strongest weapon in the game at that point so I'd definitely prioritize 2h spec.
You cannot start the game with unspent points, same goes for level up screen, once you're there you have to spend everything before you can resume playing.
edit:
I think in this case you simply forfeit the extra points, you cannot spend them later.
Default NWN campaign is straight up garbage. It doesn't even begin to compare with Baldur's Gate saga. We're talking LOTR levels of scope and quality here, but with more focus on the protagonist and those close to him and less about saving the world. Companions are expertly written, they have compelling quests, interesting personalities and different relationships with one another. There are surprisingly many decisions that can severely affect you or your party (believe me, things can get really ugly). Personally I love how good vs evil is handled in this game - evil npcs are generally stronger and in some cases (especially towards the end of the SoA campaign) you give up very, very potent bonuses if you want to keep the moral high ground. It's very different from later Bioware titles where you can have your cake and eat it too.
You cannot start the game with unspent points, same goes for level up screen, once you're there you have to spend everything before you can resume playing.
edit:
I think in this case you simply forfeit the extra points, you cannot spend them later.
Default NWN campaign is straight up garbage. It doesn't even begin to compare with Baldur's Gate saga. We're talking LOTR levels of scope and quality here, but with more focus on the protagonist and those close to him and less about saving the world. Companions are expertly written, they have compelling quests, interesting personalities and different relationships with one another. There are surprisingly many decisions that can severely affect you or your party (believe me, things can get really ugly). Personally I love how good vs evil is handled in this game - evil npcs are generally stronger and in some cases (especially towards the end of the SoA campaign) you give up very, very potent bonuses if you want to keep the moral high ground. It's very different from later Bioware titles where you can have your cake and eat it too.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
The D&D rules have always made the game seem intimidating. Wanted to try it after playing Dragon Age Origins, but not motivated to get around to it. Also played Pillars of Eternity, but didn't really like how static the Engagement system makes combat.
Conkerkid11
Member
Picked up BG: EE and BG2: EE on Steam just now, and playing through the first one currently, despite coming nowhere near finishing PoE or D: OS.
The first one is worthwhile to play, right? Hearing people make comparisons about the jump from 1 to 2 being comparable to the potential jump from PoE 1 to 2 just makes me want to skip 1, play PoE, and then play BG2: EE, as PoE doesn't look like ass (currently playing BG: EE for the first time and these graphics aren't doing much for me).
The first one is worthwhile to play, right? Hearing people make comparisons about the jump from 1 to 2 being comparable to the potential jump from PoE 1 to 2 just makes me want to skip 1, play PoE, and then play BG2: EE, as PoE doesn't look like ass (currently playing BG: EE for the first time and these graphics aren't doing much for me).
it is
BG2 is not that content-rich. The ES games and Witcher are much, much longer games when played to completion
I love BG2, but some people here are exaggerating quite a bit
I take offense at the term "archaic gameplay", though. I recently finished Witcher 3 and DLC, which some people seem to think of as the new king of RPGs. The game is excellent in some ways (the DLC linear story segments in particular, ironically), but the combat and ability system is extremely simplistic and barely allows any room for customization. It's nice that they wrote a short journal paragraph for each and every throwaway quest, but the game world is filled with absolutely mindless tasks of the likes that you usually find in MMOs. That really dampered my enthusiasm for the game after some time - games developers still don't know how to populate these massive game worlds with meaningful content
BG2 is a tactics game in combat. Encounter against filler enemy groups are thankfully resolved in mere seconds due to increased game speed + boots of haste + real time combat, tough enemies can take a long time and a number of reloads and you will pause constantly to micro-manage your team member's every actions. It's a good system and hasn't really aged much at all. Not even Pillars managed to reach it's heights due to various factors, such as uninspired encounter design
the thing with BG2 is that is has a good story and writing, but not the best in the genre, good companions and sidequests, but some other games might have outdone it in one aspect or another. It's just an all around competent game with a timeless combat system, and used to be the top RPG for a long time, or might even still be
BG II is the superior game, but BG I isn't without merit and there are various aspects that make the full journey worth the time investment, IMO.
I think the worst part of BG I is that low level ADD is so damn limiting, especially right at the start. There are ways around it, and you can amass some good gear pretty fast if you know where to look, but if you know where to look then big part of the whole discovery aspect is lost. Getting to lv 5, or thereabouts, and you'll get much more shit done with your group and no longer need to fear that a single stray wolf will eat half your party while your "tanks" whiff their attacks.
This sounds right up my alley. I've been itching for a game with meaty decisions and that makes good use of the alignment system. While the story likely can't compare pillars of eternity has some moments where I felt genuinely conflicted on what choice my character would find the most acceptable. If you've played it the monk temple was a hard point in each of my runs. As you've noted NWN is not so great and trying to run a chaotic neutral druid in that is annoying because role-playing is punished a lot if you aren't straight up good or evil.
I'm excited now this better not disappoint me.
Yeah I'm looking at paladin inquisitor. It's my understanding this is a good roll for a build
Ran the auto-roller for 20 mins lol.
What about skills for a paladin inquisitor? 2 *s in two handed sword, two handed weapon style and then the last 2 *s? Projectiles of some sorts?
I just finished the first game and I did this. Plus I gave every character a Bag of Holding through EEKeeper.
No shame.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Reminds me. I need to buy the Enhanced Edish on Gog.com. But it can wait as I'm having too much fun with Dawn of War 3 atm.
Yeah I just started playing CRPG for the first time a couple of weeks ago with PoE...
I did buy BG2 in the steam sale because I've just heard overwhelming positive things about it over the years buy I'm waaaaaayyyyyy intimidated by it.
I mean.. I can manage PoE mostly fine but even that sometimes I feel overwhelmed (especially when leveling characters) and that game is a lot more modern in every way with a lot of tutorials and a nice polished UI....
BG is on an whole other level.
I have very little CRPG experience and absolutely zero DnD experience...so yeah....
I did buy BG2 in the steam sale because I've just heard overwhelming positive things about it over the years buy I'm waaaaaayyyyyy intimidated by it.
I mean.. I can manage PoE mostly fine but even that sometimes I feel overwhelmed (especially when leveling characters) and that game is a lot more modern in every way with a lot of tutorials and a nice polished UI....
BG is on an whole other level.
I have very little CRPG experience and absolutely zero DnD experience...so yeah....
I just finished the first game and I very much enjoyed my time with it. But there are a number of reasons why I could see someone not wanting to bother with it, especially so if you hate dealing with the ruleset of AD&D 2nd edition. I'll just warn you up front and say that the games story is not particularly special nor are the games companions (my understanding is that is different in 2). Utilize quick-save often and don't be afraid to look stuff up.
Yeah I'm actually going to be hopping into BG1 (it's also under $7 right now) first to ease in to the BG experience. The following thread has convinced me that it's worth doing so (especially the blue post by Illydth):
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/24028/skip-bg1-ee-and-just-play-bg2-ee-please-help
To sum up his post for why you should play BG1 first:
-Early on it has tutors that teach you the basics of how to play BG.
-It has the Candlekeep zone that serves as an introduction on how to play.
-BG2 is a lot more difficult for beginners as it has expectations of your capabilities in CRPGs, whereas BG1 doesn't.
-If you ever decide to go back and do BG1 you'll already have the story spoiled. The biggest reveal of BG1 is supposedly revealed in the opening cutscene of BG2.
-BG2 is designed around high level characters (you start at level 10). It seems to make the assumption that you're coming from BG1 where you've progressed from levels 1-10 and have garnered the gameplay experience from it.
-Some equipment is carried over from BG1 to BG2 if you import a character.
He closes his post with, "BG is a series of 3 games...BG, BG2 and BG2:ToB. Would you pick up a trilogy and start reading on book 2? What's your friend's objection to playing one of the best games ever produced? (The Orginal BG) Especially since it's been updated with a new renderer and new graphics and new characters and new items and new..."
Just thought I'd share that for those who are wondering if they should get into BG1 first, especially since both games are so cheap right now.
I'm not going to lie this game uses a pretty archaic ruleset even by today's tabletop standards. You're probably going to need to learn about AD&D 2nd edition to play this game at anything above story difficulty.
MisterShine
Member
A lot of the complexity in ADnD happens during character creation actually unlike PoE with its many talents and extra abilities (which was done to make non-casters feel like they had more interesting progression) so once you're set with your character you're pretty much set. I wouldn't be too scared. I would however recommend you look up spell guides online for your casters, it can be tough for those unfamiliar with the setting what spells are worthwhile and what aren't.
I would liken it to the ME trilogy. Yes, the first game is great in its own way and you'll get more out of the series if you start there, but honestly the series did not find its voice and footing really until the sequel, and that is partly what has made it endure all this time. I love Durlag's Tower as much as the next guy but hot damn BG2 has so many great quests and content and build variety and characters and not getting one-shot by fucking gibberlings...
edit:
Little late here but:
-Fallen paladins, don't kill anyone innocent (basically don't choose the overtly evil maniac answer in dialogue, and don't attack anyone who isn't in combat with you already) or let your party reputation fall below 8. If you're playing good the vast majority of the time this is not a problem at all.
-Your other weapons pips should go into Halberds. There's an EXCEPTIONAL one near the end of the trilogy and the EE's added a couple good ones into the base game. You can switch between Halberd/2H sword as you find them.
I wouldn't really say BG1 offers all that great of an intro to mechanics, especially if you end up making a caster class. BG1, if anything, feels far rougher since very few abilities can reliably used without resting all the time (if they can be at all). Yeah you start at "high level" in BG2 but that's when most classes actually start to feel somewhat coherent. Either game is going to be a somewhat rough start for complete newbies, so I don't really buy the reasoning that BG1 acts a better introduction to mechanics.
And I wouldn't really say BG2 expects too much of you early on. It has a very lengthy intro dungeon with a bunch of mobs that do little more than melee and teaches you to do things like detect traps and whatnot (and if you're playing EE Imoen starts off with detect traps spamming AI) . The more focused and guided storylines also probably are far more likely to grab newcomers and get them on the right path.
Yeah, going into BG2 right away spoils BG1, but BG1 is kind of a different style of game. It's pretty light on story beyond the intro and last act. Characters are just introduced, have one quest of relevancy, and then are basically not developed beyond that.
And I wouldn't really say BG2 expects too much of you early on. It has a very lengthy intro dungeon with a bunch of mobs that do little more than melee and teaches you to do things like detect traps and whatnot (and if you're playing EE Imoen starts off with detect traps spamming AI) . The more focused and guided storylines also probably are far more likely to grab newcomers and get them on the right path.
Yeah, going into BG2 right away spoils BG1, but BG1 is kind of a different style of game. It's pretty light on story beyond the intro and last act. Characters are just introduced, have one quest of relevancy, and then are basically not developed beyond that.
Ivellios
Member
Every time i try to get into the game i get overwhelmed by all the mechanics and microing every party member in a fight, that i just end up dropping the game.
I think the farthest i reached was the first city, perhaps now i try again and swallow my pride and play on easy or story difficult so i can enjoy the plot.
I think the farthest i reached was the first city, perhaps now i try again and swallow my pride and play on easy or story difficult so i can enjoy the plot.
Fair enoughit is
BG2 is not that content-rich. The ES games and Witcher are much, much longer games when played to completion
I love BG2, but some people here are exaggerating quite a bit
I take offense at the term "archaic gameplay", though. I recently finished Witcher 3 and DLC, which some people seem to think of as the new king of RPGs. The game is excellent in some ways (the DLC linear story segments in particular, ironically), but the combat and ability system is extremely simplistic and barely allows any room for customization. It's nice that they wrote a short journal paragraph for each and every throwaway quest, but the game world is filled with absolutely mindless tasks of the likes that you usually find in MMOs. That really dampered my enthusiasm for the game after some time - games developers still don't know how to populate these massive game worlds with meaningful content
BG2 is a tactics game in combat. Encounter against filler enemy groups are thankfully resolved in mere seconds due to increased game speed + boots of haste + real time combat, tough enemies can take a long time and a number of reloads and you will pause constantly to micro-manage your team member's every actions. It's a good system and hasn't really aged much at all. Not even Pillars managed to reach it's heights due to various factors, such as uninspired encounter design
the thing with BG2 is that is has a good story and writing, but not the best in the genre, good companions and sidequests, but some other games might have outdone it in one aspect or another. It's just an all around competent game with a timeless combat system, and used to be the top RPG for a long time, or might even still be
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
BG1 is definitely worth a play, especially the EE. The sense of exploration and coming across new characters and equipment is great fun. Make sure you identify the magic equipment you get, the results of equipping an unidentified item can sometimes be... surprising. And if you like BG1 at all you definitely love 2.
A patch from last year added some decent AI for companions so it could help a bit with the micromanaging during fights.
Ivellios
Member
With fighters it works well, but the mages/clerics dont do a great job by themselves from the little i played.
Chief_Mitch
Member
Absolutely still my number 1 game of all time. It was, and still is, simply amazing. And was also my opening into the entire world of Dungeons and Dragons!!
BG1 is an amazing game. I've tried playing BG2 but could never finish it due to personal time constraints. I should really hunker down and play it haha.
From what I've played (10+ hours), it surpassed BG1 in every way. Definitely one of the best RPGs out there along with Planescape and Gothic 2: NotR (Kai Rosenberg's music is legendary).
On a side note, I suddenly remembered how Temple of Elemental Evil could have reached greatness of BG levels but fell short due to bugs and incomplete content. Fortunately the Circle of Eight modding group have been putting in great work for YEARS making the game better than it ever was.
From what I've played (10+ hours), it surpassed BG1 in every way. Definitely one of the best RPGs out there along with Planescape and Gothic 2: NotR (Kai Rosenberg's music is legendary).
On a side note, I suddenly remembered how Temple of Elemental Evil could have reached greatness of BG levels but fell short due to bugs and incomplete content. Fortunately the Circle of Eight modding group have been putting in great work for YEARS making the game better than it ever was.
I think I started playing this a couple of years after it came out (never been a big fan of pc rpgs as they felt too complicated for me to get my head around) then I got given Neverwinter Nights which I enjoyed for a bit and then never went back to either. I do vaguely remember BG2 and being impressed at its representation of AD&D as I used to play Dungeons & Dragons at school with a few friends.
Maybe I should dig out my old gaming rig and see if I can find BG2.
Maybe I should dig out my old gaming rig and see if I can find BG2.
AdamMcKraken
Member
I found the Witcher 3 to be a better more immersive RPG, but besides that nothing else comes even close to BG2.
Witcher 3 you say? 😐
I love them both dearly and treat them as the gold standards for RPGs but they are VERY different from one another
EveChristine
Member
Baldur's Gate 2 set the bar so high that I can't think of a recent RPG that hasn't managed to disappoint by comparison....I'm always that guy (well...girl) who knocks Elder Scrolls and Witcher fans back down to Earth with my "they don't make RPGs like they used to" BG2 praise.
To echo what others have said, the side quests! The unique companions with their own stories and compatible/incompatible personalities! The variations in classes that encourage repeat play! Gorgeous environments, voice acting, and soundtracks! Rewarding, challenging battles! And of course, amazing loot!
I just remember during my first playthrough, realising that each class was awarded its own stronghold and associated side quests. I was completely blown away (and excited) by the scope....and how many times I'd be able to replay this awesome game.....
Mind you, to this day I've never started an evil playthrough :|
To echo what others have said, the side quests! The unique companions with their own stories and compatible/incompatible personalities! The variations in classes that encourage repeat play! Gorgeous environments, voice acting, and soundtracks! Rewarding, challenging battles! And of course, amazing loot!
I just remember during my first playthrough, realising that each class was awarded its own stronghold and associated side quests. I was completely blown away (and excited) by the scope....and how many times I'd be able to replay this awesome game.....
Mind you, to this day I've never started an evil playthrough :|
SeaOfMadness
Member
Best voice acting in a game... maybe ever? ALL of the other character voices are excellent as well, even the lowly NPC you only hear from once in the entire game.
Reneledarker
Banned
Anyone played as a Dark Moon Monk?
How does it compares to other melee classes in the game?
How does it compares to other melee classes in the game?
I haven't played a DM Monk specifically but vanilla monk is the strongest non-multiclass in the game. Super super super broken.