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2013 April NBA |OT| Pipe Dreams

G

giri

Member
numble said:
Insurance is spelt out in the CBA, you don't need to look at each contract:
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q71


If you amnesty, you pay the contract and the player is no longer on your roster. If you want insurance to cover costs, the player must be on your roster and missing games while on the roster.
Click to expand...

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the Lakers are far better off amnestying him and saving a but load on tax.

If the insurance kicks in only after 41 regular season games, and Kobe is going to miss, what, 3 of those this season, that means the Lakers will only get 44 games covered next year.

And it's capped at 175,000 per game. They're paying him 366,000 per game next year.

So, for the remaining 44 games of next season, they'll get 7.7Million in insurance pay outs.

Basically, the Lakers will have to pay Tax on his salary, AND pay 22.3M in salary.

This is presuming you still pay tax on a player on the disabled list/insurance.

Which, you do,

If the injury exclusion is granted, the player's salary is removed from the team salary effective:

If the player played 10 or more games1 that season, on the one-year anniversary of the player's last game.
Click to expand...

You can only get a tax exception for a disabled player/career ending injury on the 1 year anniversary of their last game played. So the lakers could get 3/82's of the salary removed and reduce their total salary that would count towards the tax, by ~1M

Which means, amnestying Kobe is by FAR the best financial option for them.

2 other fun points about trying to get out of the tax on his salary

A team cannot apply for this salary exclusion if they have applied for a Disabled Player exception (see question number 25) that season, whether the exception was granted or not.
If this salary exclusion is granted, the team cannot re-sign or re-acquire the player at any time.
Click to expand...

If they try to reduce their luxury tax, the Lakers can never re-sign Kobe.
If they try to apply for an exception to sign a replacement player while Kobe is injured, they can't get the Luxury Tax exception. Even if they fail to sign anyone or the league denies them the exception.
 
G

giri

Member
ph33nix said:
didn't see this here but anyone else see doug collins will resign?

i hope that neo doug will be ok
Click to expand...

Yeah, he's told them he's going to resign. They've said, we're not releasing you. Which is lulz.

There's talk he'll take up a FO role but not a coaching role though.
 
L

LuchaShaq

Banned
giri said:
Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the Lakers are far better off amnestying him and saving a but load on tax.

If the insurance kicks in only after 41 regular season games, and Kobe is going to miss, what, 3 of those this season, that means the Lakers will only get 44 games covered next year.

And it's capped at 175,000 per game. They're paying him 366,000 per game next year.

So, for the remaining 44 games of next season, they'll get 7.7Million in insurance pay outs.

Basically, the Lakers will have to pay Tax on his salary, AND pay 22.3M in salary.

This is presuming you still pay tax on a player on the disabled list/insurance.

Which, you do,



You can only get a tax exception for a disabled player/career ending injury on the 1 year anniversary of their last game played. So the lakers could get 3/82's of the salary removed and reduce their total salary that would count towards the tax, by ~1M

Which means, amnestying Kobe is by FAR the best financial option for them.

2 other fun points about trying to get out of the tax on his salary



If they try to reduce their luxury tax, the Lakers can never re-sign Kobe.
If they try to apply for an exception to sign a replacement player while Kobe is injured, they can't get the Luxury Tax exception. Even if they fail to sign anyone or the league denies them the exception.
Click to expand...

If the lakers don't amnesty Kobe they are idiots for trying to save money with Pringles over Phil.
 
F

Future PhaZe

Member
I'd rather just take a chance at Shabazz than go for Zeller..dude does nothing for me. I don't understand how he's rated higher than Olynyk.

Of course Bennett ranked highly...like nobody ever realizes that tweeners are terrible.
 
L

linsivvi

Member
Dark FaZe said:
Dion waiters has a DRTG of 112.

Is that even possible for a guard? Lol damn.
Click to expand...

Lots of guards are at 112 or worse...

Lillard is at 112, Kobechu is 113. Of course, Waiters' ORtg is atrocious compared to those two.

Fredette takes the cake among anyone who has played meaningful minutes at 115.
 
T

Truelize

Steroid Distributor
Dark FaZe said:
I'd rather just take a chance at Shabazz than go for Zeller..dude does nothing for me. I don't understand how he's rated higher than Olynyk.

Of course Bennett ranked highly...like nobody ever realizes that tweeners are terrible.
Click to expand...


I think everyone has hope that there will be another player like Barkley and Larry Johnson. I think there is potential for Bennett to be like LJ but I agree that it's just as likely that he is the next Tractoe Traylor too.
There were moments through the Mountain West tournament and the Final Four where Bennett used his strength and power and it was awesome. Truly awesome. But it was just moments.
This whole one and done college situation doesnt give players much of a chance to be one the player they will become.

If I was a GM I would likely over value playing experience and shy away from players like Shabazz and pick kids like Zeller and Olynyk. I feel I know more about what I'm getting with Zeller and Olynyk and its easier to overlook their weaknesses than Shabazz's.
I probably wouldn't be a GM for long. :)
 
K

KingKong

Member
Lakers would be very foolish to amnesty Kobe unless they think they can get another superstar. I'm sure Time Warner isn't going to be very happy with their 3 billion dollar contract since nobody wants to watch the Dwight show
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Truelize said:
Looks like I'm learning something new this morning.

What's DRTG?
Click to expand...

Mike-DAntoni-Playoffs.jpg
 
F

Future PhaZe

Member
Only time I think about upside is if a player has absolutely stupid skills/athleticism that should clearly show themselves in the future ala Wall/Rose/Wiggins.

Otherwise I don't even thing about upside when it comes to picks. I just wonder how likely a player is going to be able to transfer his college stats/skills to the NBA. Some guys can clearly do it like Kawhi, some guys like Derrick Williams/Beasley are unable to do that because of increased size/skill in the NBA.

Then you have picks like Vesely/Thabeet, which are just all kinds of dumb.
 
T

Truelize

Steroid Distributor
The Dantoni pic was the best reply possible.
Fredette having the highest number isnt surprising. Absolutely terrible team defense strategies and no discipline shown by the entire team. Fredette does need to be on a team where his defensive deficiencies can be hidden by the strength of his teammates.

I don't really like to guess on upside either. And agree that if a player shows something exceptional as far athletic ability is concerned I'm on board.
For me that's where I think Bennett may fit in. May fit.
He looked strong to me and played strong at times too. I only saw a small sample but a couple of times he did a drop step into the lane and hammered into the defender and took the space he needed. That's so rare to see nowadays. It was refreshing.
So I think if he shows well as far as vertical and speed tests then he might have something others do not.
He definitely more prepared for the NBA than Big Baby was coming into the league.
 
F

Future PhaZe

Member
Problem with tweeners is they are all unbelievable offensively in college and you just assume that the only possible issues they could have is defense/rebounding.

Then they come into the league and can't score as effectively as they did in college and you end up with Derrick Williams/Beasley/T-Rob.

I'm passing on Bennett because there is a player like him every year..that super strong 6'8 guy who is a man amongst boys and then looks terrible in the NBA.
 
F

Future PhaZe

Member
D-Will being good to great was dependent on his offensive numbers making up for his rebounding and d.

But I don't know if anyone predicted he'd be this terrible at scoring.

I loved him coming into the draft :(
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
lol @ all of you folks who believe the Lakers will amnesty Kobe. Give me a break. Lakers will still make money off of him when he isn't playing. Lakers will receive $100-150 million annually just from their Time Warner deal. Yes, paying a luxury tax isn't something any owner including the Buss family wants to do but paying a tax due to Kobe Bryant being injured and paying one due to Meta or Steve Blake is quite different. Neither of those players will still be making the team money, they haven't dedicated 17 years of their career to the franchise, won't have their jersey placed in the rafters, won't be getting a statue in front of Staples. Kobe isn't going anywhere, nor should he.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
BTW, Peter did you watch last nights episode of the Real Housewives of Atlanta reunion? Kim is terrible. Candy's looking better too, like the weave. Nene went off also. Next week's reunion finale should be really good.
 
N

numble

Member
giri said:
Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the Lakers are far better off amnestying him and saving a but load on tax.

If the insurance kicks in only after 41 regular season games, and Kobe is going to miss, what, 3 of those this season, that means the Lakers will only get 44 games covered next year.

And it's capped at 175,000 per game. They're paying him 366,000 per game next year.

So, for the remaining 44 games of next season, they'll get 7.7Million in insurance pay outs.

Basically, the Lakers will have to pay Tax on his salary, AND pay 22.3M in salary.

This is presuming you still pay tax on a player on the disabled list/insurance.

Which, you do,



You can only get a tax exception for a disabled player/career ending injury on the 1 year anniversary of their last game played. So the lakers could get 3/82's of the salary removed and reduce their total salary that would count towards the tax, by ~1M

Which means, amnestying Kobe is by FAR the best financial option for them.

2 other fun points about trying to get out of the tax on his salary



If they try to reduce their luxury tax, the Lakers can never re-sign Kobe.
If they try to apply for an exception to sign a replacement player while Kobe is injured, they can't get the Luxury Tax exception. Even if they fail to sign anyone or the league denies them the exception.
Click to expand...

That's just the league-provided insurance policy, for which teams don't need to pay for. The Lakers presumably pay for additional insurance, with the same waiting periods. The waiting period is just how long he needs to be injured before insurance says, okay, he's injured, we'll cover the salary, it doesn't mean they don't pay the games during the waiting period.

If there weren't additional insurance and every player was only on the league-provided insurance, teams wouldn't have to discuss insurance premiums when doing trade talks.

http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/blog/inside-front-office.html
Exchange of Insurance Information. Each team also must disclose any insurance policies that cover the relevant players' salaries. The receiving team for each player must then determine if it wishes to assume any such policies, and, if it's a mid-season trade, the teams must also agree on what portion of the policy premiums will be paid by each team. This step sometimes involves detailed consultation between teams' finance departments.
Click to expand...
 
T

Truelize

Steroid Distributor
Dark FaZe said:
Problem with tweeners is they are all unbelievable offensively in college and you just assume that the only possible issues they could have is defense/rebounding.

Then they come into the league and can't score as effectively as they did in college and you end up with Derrick Williams/Beasley/T-Rob.

I'm passing on Bennett because there is a player like him every year..that super strong 6'8 guy who is a man amongst boys and then looks terrible in the NBA.
Click to expand...


Hey I don't disagree at all. Maybe I'm just cheering for him a bit because I would like someone to finally have success again with a body like his.
 
L

LegendofJoe

Member
Noel has declared. I really hope we'll be in a position to grab him.

Also Wiggins is the only player in ESPN's top 100 who has yet to sign with a school. Kid needs to go ahead and make a decision.
 
L

LegendofJoe

Member
Truelize said:
Hey I don't disagree at all. Maybe I'm just cheering for him a bit because I would like someone to finally have success again with a body like his.
Click to expand...

People act as if there are zero good tweeners in the league and it's not true. If we want to be technical Lebron is a tweener, as is Millsap, Josh Smith, and Gerald Wallace. There are a lot more busts, but there are some really good players in the league that could be described as tweeners.
 
R

ratcliffja

Member
ClovingWestbrook said:
lol @ all of you folks who believe the Lakers will amnesty Kobe. Give me a break. Lakers will still make money off of him when he isn't playing. Lakers will receive $100-150 million annually just from their Time Warner deal. Yes, paying a luxury tax isn't something any owner including the Buss family wants to do but paying a tax due to Kobe Bryant being injured and paying one due to Meta or Steve Blake is quite different. Neither of those players will still be making the team money, they haven't dedicated 17 years of their career to the franchise, won't have their jersey placed in the rafters, won't be getting a statue in front of Staples. Kobe isn't going anywhere, nor should he.
Click to expand...

Amnestying Kobe in theory wouldn't mean him going anywhere. It would mean having him sit out all next year and then coming back fresh in 2014 with a new contract. The biggest hitch would be getting him to agree to sit out a year, which honestly is a pretty big hitch.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
ratcliffja said:
Amnestying Kobe in theory wouldn't mean him going anywhere. It would mean having him sit out all next year and then coming back fresh in 2014 with a new contract. The biggest hitch would be getting him to agree to sit out a year, which honestly is a pretty big hitch.
Click to expand...

And pointless. If he could come back in December/Janurary, you let him. It's not as if he is 25 anymore where sitting an entire season won't drastically affect him. At 35 or so, sitting an entire season would just destroy his legs.
 
T

Truelize

Steroid Distributor
LegendofJoe said:
People act as if there are zero good tweeners in the league and it's not true. If we want to be technical Lebron is a tweener, as is Millsap, Josh Smith, and Gerald Wallace. There are a lot more busts, but there are some really good players in the league that could be described as tweeners.
Click to expand...

Yeah I see that. I might be using the "tweener" label for players that play closer to the hoop, have a big body and are stretching to be 6'8". That's how I interpret the label.

Too short to dominate down low
Too slow to dominate on the wing

Bennett has a thicker/wider build than Millsap, Smith and Wallace. His shoulders and chest are wider. To me he looks like a guy that should play inside. Bron is a freak, I never compare him to anyone when it comes to his body. He is baffling.
 
K

Knux-Future

Banned
The age of bigmen...actually playing like bigmen is dying.

Most bigs play like wings or are skinny fucks anyway.

The tweener 4 is going to be "in" soon.
 
L

LegendofJoe

Member
Truelize said:
Yeah I see that. I might be using the "tweener" label for players that play closer to the hoop, have a big body and are stretching to be 6'8". That's how I interpret the label.

Too short to dominate down low
Too slow to dominate on the wing

Bennett has a thicker/wider build than Millsap, Smith and Wallace. His shoulders and chest are wider. To me he looks like a guy that should play inside. Bron is a freak, I never compare him to anyone when it comes to his body. He is baffling.
Click to expand...

It's really all about the combination of skills, athleticism, and size. It's ideal if you have all 3, like Lebron, but you can get by being smaller if you have enough skill or athleticism to compensate. Bennett is really athletic and strong, so I don't think his size will disadvantage him that much. He is explosive around the basket and he has above average footwork in the post for someone his age. He does loaf on defense though, and I'm not all that confident he will get much better there as he gets older either. That's my biggest concern with him and why I'm not sold on him being a high level starter. I think he would be the perfect 3rd big for a team that could use some offense off the bench though. He would thrive in that role.
 
Z

Zeus Molecules

illegal immigrants are stealing our air
masud said:
Since he's Canadian can't he just declare for the draft?
Click to expand...

I seen him (keep in mind in mind only one game) he should do a year in college lots of physical tools but he is raw plus he needs to learn to post play against opponents in the paint his size are larger. On the flip he could also do a year internationally and make some paper from the jump...
 
V

Vahagn

Member
Truelize said:
Yeah I see that. I might be using the "tweener" label for players that play closer to the hoop, have a big body and are stretching to be 6'8". That's how I interpret the label.

Too short to dominate down low
Too slow to dominate on the wing

Bennett has a thicker/wider build than Millsap, Smith and Wallace. His shoulders and chest are wider. To me he looks like a guy that should play inside. Bron is a freak, I never compare him to anyone when it comes to his body. He is baffling.
Click to expand...

It will all make sense once the positive test goes public.
 
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