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[SneakersSO]

Just looked at the list of exotic weapons and armor (waiting for PC version) and they look so underwhelming compared to the fun stuff I was chasing in D1. Where's stuff like Last Word, Hawkmoon, or Ice Breaker? This is a bummer. Are there ::any:: exciting exotic perks?

Closest guns to any D1 exotic is the Coil & Merciless, and even then, they are far more situational versus a D1 exotic.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Ok. I have the solution. A reason to keep playing. A rewarding new style of content. It's so obvious.

Hats.

Hats.

Also: (hear me out) guns that shoot hats.

 

[Razzmatazzer]

So, now people with opposing opinions can't participate?

Who said that? Just no need to be a dick about it.

 

[DrROBschiz]

As long as I am handsomely rewarded for every hour of play, I'm happy.



So, now people with opposing opinions can't participate?

I think my biggest beef right now is running out of toys to play with

The only thing that I think hurts D2 the most is how toned down a lot of things are.. or they are straight up broken

The next sandbox update should hopefully correct a ton of our first batch of bugs because we have a lot of perks and exotics that either dont work well or dont work at all


I defintely miss the power and toybox feel that D1 gave me. We will get there and there are good guns in Vanilla D2 but I find myself not using as many different "toys" as I would like

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

One thing I would like to call out is the smug off-handed "yeh well get used to it because Bungie's never going back to it" that's been thrown out a few times. Bungie is known, with Destiny, for making significant and sudden overhauls to about any aspect of the game based on player feedback and statistics.

This was seen a number of times in Destiny 1, and has been seen with Destiny 2. Just because that's the direction they took initially does in no way suggest that that is the way they will persistently be moving forward. Especially with them directly requesting for feedback for the first expansion, and almost certainly with the sales dip and widespread concern over user retention. Yes, the sentiment was 'we don't mind if they leave happy', but the latter part of that has seen significant discussion recently.

This isn't to suggest that they will flip and go back to D1 systems, but rather that saying that there is 'no way' that Bungie will try to correct course toward a middle ground is silly considering the history of the franchise.

 

[E92 M3]

You're more than welcome to participate in discussion.

"Just deal with it" and "too bad" is not promoting discussion. It comes off as shutting down the opinions of others simply because you are happy that they catered to your personal preference.

Sure they can, but as long as your contribution does not go further than "Deal with it, special snowflake" you´re not really needed here.

I'm a fan of brutal honesty. It boils down to people wanting to feel special! He said it himself! A person putting in 5 hours shouldn't be as powerful as someone that put in 25.

To be fair, E92, you've always gotten somewhat hostile when people talked about changes to things you like back in D1. You even took a similar tangent in your arguments, too. "Bungie will never do this!"

You acted this way specifically about nerfs in D1. And the nerfs came.

Separately, the thread is reasonably about the lack of a need to play after a certain point and how that point comes far quicker than in Destiny 1. When you boil it down, that's what it is. Unless you're as fixated as GraverobberX in making the accumulated stuff in your inventory rise higher (and in fairness to him, that can be fun, although I imagine he's enraged by the anti farm code they seem to use), you "finish" D2 far quicker than D1....and some people don't like that.

That's true I HATED NERFS - and look where all of the nerf begging got us in Y3. And I do love to hoard materials. Destiny has never been about the loot, but how you use it. Now that I have pretty much everything, it's fun to just chill and play.

 

[GlamFM]

Ok. I have the solution. A reason to keep playing. A rewarding new style of content. It's so obvious.

Hats.

Hats.

Also: (hear me out) guns that shoot hats.

It´s like you don´t know anything about Destiny 2.

Tokens.

Tokens for hats.

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

Dude what the fuck E92? Enough with the snowflake crap. You're now the first person I've ever added to the ignore list in my time here on gaf. Congrats?

 

[Juan]

Personally, encounters facing multiple opponents have become really boring due to the new weapon system making it only close combat specific and without any variation => Just let me have an AR, a Shotgun/Sniper AND a Rocket Launcher/Sword

Loot is okay, both visually and as the drop rate goes, but weapons aren't as special as they were in D1 and I'm not feeling that powerful => Just allow me to add more mods, and let me chase/grind/earn crazy & exotic mods that really change/fit my playstyle

Sometimes, I just want to slay some AI without chasing anything, just for the fun of it, so I go back to D1 because it is more fun and varied than D2 (imo).

Also, I miss leveling up my weapon, and bounties. Both of those things helped me play the game the way I wanted to play while still discovering something new.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

I'm a fan of brutal honesty. It boils down to people wanting to feel special! He said it himself! A person putting in 5 hours shouldn't be as powerful as someone that put in 25.

How is that wanting to feel special and not just wanting progression in a game. Someone being in the exact same place after 100 hours as someone after 5 hours implies a complete and utter lack of progression, something that is seen as a key part of a number of quality titles.

 

[panda-zebra]

No, that is a good analogy.

Here in Brasil we have artificial lakes where it is cultivated fishes to you catch but the fishes are left starving to make easy to everybody fish. It is ridiculous boring but most big city guys only had this artificial fishing experience so they see that like the real fishing experience.

The reward to stay on a river fighting to catch a fish after some hours of nothing is wonderful... you take pictures, shows friends, the emotion, the feeling... everything makes the hours of hours whorty of it.

Destiny vanilla made the reward thing a big, emotional event... it was an experience others games didn’t give you.

After TTK the changes started and now we reached the bottom with D2. There is basically any meaning in being reward in D2... it is secondary.

Destiny 2 = shooting fish in a barrel. Agree. A brief period of being showered in increasingly pointless loot followed by a heavy sigh and a load of meh.

Too bad, deal with it. Bungie doesn't want Destiny to promote special snowflakes. This is a shooter first and loot comes second. And the funny thing is that I probably play more than you.

I am as hardcore as they come and love how Bungie set everything up.

So you're, what, a hardcore snowflake?

 

[GlamFM]

I'm a fan of brutal honesty. It boils down to people wanting to feel special! He said it himself! A person putting in 5 hours shouldn't be as powerful as someone that put in 25.

It really does not. There are a bunch of really, really good posts with good ideas in this very thread.

Also "brutal honesty" is just sugarcoating being a dick. Sorry.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

Too bad, deal with it. Bungie doesn't want Destiny to promote special snowflakes. This is a shooter first and loot comes second. And the funny thing is that I probably play more than you.

I am as hardcore as they come and love how Bungie set everything up.

Give me a break. Destiny 2 is designed around loot, and loot farming games have always rewarded the effort you put in. Bungie just haven't figured out how to do it right. I can give you a multitude of reasons why this post is everything wrong with Destiny 2, but I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain.

 

[E92 M3]

Dude what the fuck E92? Enough with the snowflake crap. You're now the first person I've ever added to the ignore list in my time here on gaf. Congrats?

Oh no, my feelings are so hurt. Thanks?

Destiny 2 = shooting fish in a barrel. Agree. A brief period of being showered in increasingly pointless loot followed by a heavy sigh and a load of meh.



So you're, what, a hardcore snowflake?

I loved having the Mythoclast before anyone else and just wrecking in PVP - but it wasn't good game design. A person should purchase Destiny and feel like the game rewarded them for playing. I am a retired snowflake.

Still hardcore, though.

It really does not. There are a bunch of really, really good posts with good ideas in this very thread.

Also "brutal honesty" is just sugarcoating being a dick. Sorry.

Please, no personal insults.

Give me a break. Destiny 2 is designed around loot, and loot farming games have always rewarded the effort you put in. They just haven't figured out how to do it right. I can give you a multitude of reasons why this post is everything wrong with Destiny 2, but I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain.

Destiny is a shooter with awesome loot. At least for me.

 

[Niceguydan8]

I'm a fan of brutal honesty. It boils down to people wanting to feel special! He said it himself! A person putting in 5 hours shouldn't be as powerful as someone that put in 25.

That's generally why the sort of progression systems exist in RPGs though. If the player always feels as powerful as they did 5 hours in, what is the point of leveling up or power level in general?

I would be fine if Bungie went that route, but i would want them to remove all of the RPG aspects of their game, because as of right now I think they are near useless systems.

 

[MrAnderson]

Ok. I have the solution. A reason to keep playing. A rewarding new style of content. It's so obvious.

Hats.

Hats.

Also: (hear me out) guns that shoot hats.

I was thinking just yesterday that a mod that made your gun shoot basketballs would be fun. Bungie really needs to go wild with mods.

 

[TheAquaticApe]

I loved having the Mythoclast before anyone else and just wrecking in PVP - but it wasn't good game design.

Did you also love the part where you had to level the gun up before you could use it? You know - the anticipation of having to grind out some bubbles so you could actually use all the perks on it. I'm sure it made that more rewarding.

 

[GlamFM]

Did you also love the part where you had to level the gun up before you could use it?

I did!

I called it the victory lap.

 

[E92 M3]

That's generally why the sort of progression systems exist in RPGs though. If the player always feels as powerful as they did 5 hours in, what is the point of leveling up or power level in general?

I would be fine if Bungie went that route, but i would want them to remove all of the RPG aspects of their game, because as of right now I think they are near useless systems.

They heavily diluted the RPG aspects and I'm ok with that. Just give me MORE loot and MORE vault space.

Did you also love the part where you had to level the gun up before you could use it?

EEEEK!

"Here is a new toy, but currently it sucks so waste your time leveling it up!"

 

[Lanrutcon]

It´s like you don´t know anything about Destiny 2.

Tokens.

Tokens for hats.

/thread

I'll compose the e-mail to Bungie. Maybe it's not too late for them to change expansion #1 to a haberdashery. The Fez Below? The Taken Beanie!

 

[WilsonX100]

I think these past couple of days have turned me off from picking up Destiny 2 on PC at launch. Will wait for a GOTY-like edition or after the first 1-2 DLCs come out and then see what state it is in.

buying it on xbox led me to not getting it on pc. played it for three weeks, havent touched it since. and the price of dlc wont keep me around

 

[Raven117]

Did you also love the part where you had to level the gun up before you could use it? You know - the anticipation of having to grind out some bubbles so you could actually use all the perks on it. I'm sure it made that more rewarding.

LOL oh man...this was baaaaad. How about when we had to re-level all the exotics again when Crota's End hit...and we had to re-buy them from Xur? LOL what fuckery.

 

[Niceguydan8]

They heavily diluted the RPG aspects and I'm ok with that. Just give me MORE loot and MORE vault space.

They did heavily dilute the RPG aspects, and I think it's getting to the point where it doesn't serve a purpose. That's kind of my point. Bungie sets an expectation for people familiar with video games when they pretty much copy WoW/FFXIV's progression system. So it feels weird when the progression system itself is largely just fluff.

Bungie was all about trimming the fat that newer players or players that don't care about RPG aspects of the game. That's fine, but they kept the systems in. So the systems just feel kind of pointless.

 

[Sanke__]

Destiny 2 is absolutely fantastic

But....

This statement is 100% true:
“the game feels intended to be beaten and moved on from”

 

[TheAquaticApe]

I did!

So you have more fun chasing something than actually using it? Got it. I'm the opposite. I prefer to actually use the gun instead of jumping through unnecessary hoops to then use it.

EEEEK!

"Here is a new toy, but currently it sucks so waste your time leveling it up!"

If they just brought back bounties, and you saved them up, you could level it so much faster!

 

[E92 M3]

They did heavily dilute the RPG aspects, and I think it's getting to the point where it doesn't serve a purpose. That's kind of my point. Bungie sets an expectation for people familiar with video games when they pretty much copy WoW/FFXIV's progression system. So it feels weird when the progression system itself is largely just fluff.

Bungie was all about trimming the fat that newer players or players that don't care about RPG aspects of the game. That's fine, but they kept the systems in. So the systems just feel kind of pointless.

I enjoy a good RPG, but definitely, do not miss the prolonged leveling process from D1.

Destiny 2 is absolutely fantastic

But....

This statement is 100% true:
“the game feels intended to be beaten and moved on from”

If so, there is nothing wrong with that. Personally, I am still enjoying it.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Destiny 2 is absolutely fantastic

But....

This statement is 100% true:
“the game feels intended to be beaten and moved on from”

My current theory was that was always their plan for the Vanilla release and that the expanded future content will trend more towards where D1 ended up

but i really need to see how the first expansion pans out

 

[GlamFM]

So you have more fun chasing something than actually using it?

Exactly.

 

[Raven117]

My current theory was that was always their plan for the Vanilla release and that the expanded future content will trend more towards where D1 ended up

but i really need to see how the first expansion pans out

I am hoping for this too.

 

[TheAquaticApe]

LOL oh man...this was baaaaad. How about when we had to re-level all the exotics again when Crota's End hit...and we had to re-buy them from Xur? LOL what fuckery.

Yep. And don't get me wrong...I do think there's room for improvement in Destiny 2, but at the not at the expense of more grind for nothing.

 

[VincentMatts]

What this game showed me is that Bungie didnt learn a thing from D1. Everything that they learned near the end of D1, they literally scraped it and went back to how D1 was at the very beginning of its life. Makes absolutely no sense. How can you start over everything from scratch and not incorporate the things D1 did right at the end of its life? Bungie are so dense.

 

[Gator86]

Did you also love the part where you had to level the gun up before you could use it? You know - the anticipation of having to grind out some bubbles so you could actually use all the perks on it. I'm sure it made that more rewarding.

God, D1 was so rotten with horrific design choices sometimes I'm still genuinely surprised the franchise took off. The people directly responsible for the shooting mechanics and enemy hit reactions deserve 100% raises for keeping this franchise alive despite the efforts of the rest of the design team.

 

[TyrantII]

Give me a break. Destiny 2 is designed around loot, and loot farming games have always rewarded the effort you put in. Bungie just haven't figured out how to do it right. I can give you a multitude of reasons why this post is everything wrong with Destiny 2, but I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain.

One way to think of it; there's a difference between rewarding the work you put in, and rewarding the time investment as a whole.

The latter is bad, because it suggests a grind to get that reward at the end, one that might be prohibitive.

The former is what D2 needs. Gameplay loops that are not terrible long grinds that will constantly reward play with new experiences. Something Bungie forgot to replace when they ripped out the bad systems. They don't necessarily have to be at the cost of fellow players with less time if designed right. Nor should they be.

MMOs/RPGs with oppressive grinds are not very fun either outside of playerbase factions that like to hold the investment up as a badge of honor.

I really.dont see many of the Destiny veteran fanbase looking for anything resembling a return to that. But they are brainstorming ways increase the value and replayabilty so that there's some sense of keeping everyone's guardian moving forward, and interesting.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Yep. And don't get me wrong...I do think there's room for improvement in Destiny 2, but at the not at the expense of more grind for nothing.

Haven't seen many people suggesting bringing back weapon levelling, if they have been then I agree that's an improvement in D2. I like the journey to the item, but when I get it I'd rather use it than do another lap. That said I feel mods had a great (missed) opportunity to offer some midpoint between the two. You get the weapon after a chase, it's good but then can be customised to your preference as a means to improve the ones you're fond of.

 

[What The Forest Taught Me]

There's nothing "hardcore" about bad game design.

And yes, hoping for an ornament to drop from a Bright Engram is better than the legitimately crazy grind you described. Come on now. I understand what you're getting at but that would be absolutely awful.

The answer here is simple and it's not "add more grinding" or "add more RNG" (in the form of bad game design, such as 10,000 different rolls on a weapon).

It's "add more loot." Seriously. Add more and cooler guns and armor sets that exclusively drop from specific activities: Strikes, Lost Sectors, Adventures. Perhaps tie them to higher difficulty levels for those activities as well.

This. This is the answer.

 

[Bizazedo]

This. This is the answer.

It is, but it'd require a LOT of work on Bungie's part.

/looks at re-skinned Iron Banner weapons....

 

[Rexatality]

Too bad, deal with it. Bungie doesn't want Destiny to promote special snowflakes. This is a shooter first and loot comes second. And the funny thing is that I probably play more than you.

I am as hardcore as they come and love how Bungie set everything up.

Bungie could make dogshit and you would still praise it about how amazing it is.

Just saying

 

[Raven117]

Yep. And don't get me wrong...I do think there's room for improvement in Destiny 2, but at the not at the expense of more grind for nothing.

Agreed. 100% I think They will continue to improve it. Just like D1.

I think they are setting the hooks to then turn up the heat in the DLC for some of the things the more fervent fans want...Thats the hope anyway.

 

[GlamFM]

There's nothing "hardcore" about bad game design.

And yes, hoping for an ornament to drop from a Bright Engram is better than the legitimately crazy grind you described. Come on now. I understand what you're getting at but that would be absolutely awful.

The answer here is simple and it's not "add more grinding" or "add more RNG" (in the form of bad game design, such as 10,000 different rolls on a weapon).

It's "add more loot." Seriously. Add more and cooler guns and armor sets that exclusively drop from specific activities: Strikes, Lost Sectors, Adventures. Perhaps tie them to higher difficulty levels for those activities as well.

More loot is not gonna change anything if they don´t fundamentally change something about the way you get it. It would extend the playtime for a few hours, but still not deliver an end game you can keep playing and playing.

 

[Raven117]

There's nothing "hardcore" about bad game design.

And yes, hoping for an ornament to drop from a Bright Engram is better than the legitimately crazy grind you described. Come on now. I understand what you're getting at but that would be absolutely awful.

The answer here is simple and it's not "add more grinding" or "add more RNG" (in the form of bad game design, such as 10,000 different rolls on a weapon).

It's "add more loot." Seriously. Add more and cooler guns and armor sets that exclusively drop from specific activities: Strikes, Lost Sectors, Adventures. Perhaps tie them to higher difficulty levels for those activities as well.

This right here.

 

[TyrantII]

Haven't seen many people suggesting bringing back weapon levelling, if they have been then I agree that's an improvement in D2. I like the journey to the item, but when I get it I'd rather use it than do another lap. That said I feel mods had a great (missed) opportunity to offer some midpoint between the two. You get the weapon after a chase, it's good but then can be customised to your preference as a means to improve the ones you're fond of.

Mod are terribly underused. They should be opened to the perk system as well.

You play activities to get mod perks, and you get gun chassis' to put them into. That gives thousands of combination for people to chase, and for those with no time they can save their mats, wait for the meta to sort out, and invest in the weapon / mod load out with very little time spent grinding. Even if you don't have the mats, you won't need to grind 2000 strikes for the roll.

Win / win. Lots to do, unless you don't want to.

 

[E92 M3]

Bungie could make dogshit and you would still praise it about how amazing it is.

Just saying

 

[WipedOut]

Destiny 2 is absolutely fantastic

But....

This statement is 100% true:
“the game feels intended to be beaten and moved on from”

It's exactly what they want you to do. Get your loot, have fun, go play something else. Come back when DLC hits.

 

[TheAquaticApe]

Haven't seen many people suggesting bringing back weapon levelling, if they have been then I agree that's an improvement in D2. I like the journey to the item, but when I get it I'd rather use it than do another lap. That said I feel mods had a great (missed) opportunity to offer some midpoint between the two. You get the weapon after a chase, it's good but then can be customised to your preference as a means to improve the ones you're fond of.

Yes, I will agree that the mod system could use some work, but I still want static rolls on weapons and armor. Why? Because people will just mod their guns to be "God Rolls" like HoW. I think more cosmetic mods are a good idea.

As far as leveling armor/guns - it stopped being a thing once people found out about motes of light. It became the "putting the batteries in the new toy" in Destiny. It's just not needed.

 

[Omotesando]

Warframe.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Mod are terribly underused. They should be opened to the perk system as well.

You play activities to get mod perks, and you get gun chassis' to put them into. That gives thousands of combination for people to chase, and for those with no time they can save their mats, wait for the meta to sort out, and invest in the weapon / mod load out with very little time spent grinding. Even if you don't have the mats, you won't need to grind 2000 strikes for the roll.

Win / win. Lots to do, unless you don't want to.

Yeah giving players the agency to actually MOD their guns could open up the sandbox quite a bit

I also wouldnt mind if they fixed some of the broken perks like DragonFly....

 

[140.85]

There's nothing "hardcore" about bad game design.

And yes, hoping for an ornament to drop from a Bright Engram is better than the legitimately crazy grind you described. Come on now. I understand what you're getting at but that would be absolutely awful.

The answer here is simple and it's not "add more grinding" or "add more RNG" (in the form of bad game design, such as 10,000 different rolls on a weapon).

It's "add more loot." Seriously. Add more and cooler guns and armor sets that exclusively drop from specific activities: Strikes, Lost Sectors, Adventures. Perhaps tie them to higher difficulty levels for those activities as well.

I think the answer is add more loot AND add back some RNG. Not brainless, padding RNG though. And don't try to tell me that all RNG is brainless and padding. The most satisfying loot systems maintain an element on RNG. There were periods in Y1 when the loot flowed at a good rate, with common drops giving you lateral progress (loadout options and experimentation) and rare drops offering satisfying vertical progression.

 

[Raven117]

It's exactly what they want you to do. Get your loot, have fun, go play something else. Come back when DLC hits.

Preeety obvious in the game design if you ask me.

That said, a few bones to chew on for the folks who want to grind something would be nice.

 

[Rexatality]

Yes, I will agree that the mod system could use some work, but I still want static rolls on weapons and armor. Why? Because people will just mod their guns to be "God Rolls" like HoW. I think more cosmetic mods are a good idea.

As far as leveling armor/guns - it stopped being a thing once people found out about motes of light. It became the "putting the batteries in the new toy" in Destiny. It's just not needed.

Mods should actually affect the weapons in the form of perks or attributes

And its not like anyone put a fucking gun to your head and forced you to get god rolls

 

[WipedOut]

Preeety obvious in the game design if you ask me.

That said, a few bones to chew on for the folks who want to grind something would be nice.

You got IB for that.