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[Andodalf]

At least Apple Arcade seems to be a positive step for quality in mobile gaming.

It’s got Kairosofts game dev story, the only game you ever need!

 

[ethomaz]

I believe that is true.
Smartphones has a way bigger userbase than consoles.
And casual free to play games have gigantic revenue from MTX… games like Freefire, Candy Crush, Lords Mobile, Saint Seyia, Clash of Clans, Clash Royale, etc etc etc.

Some recent research says games on iPhone generates over $10 million per day in US only.

“ According to data acquired by Finbold, as of June 2021, the top ten grossing iPhone games in the U.S. generate an estimated average of $11.2 million in daily revenue, equivalent to $336.2 million every month. Online game and game creation platform Roblox (NYSE: RBLX) tops the chart with estimated revenue of $3.01 million daily or $92 million monthly. Clash of Clans ranks a distant second with an estimated average of $1.8 million in daily revenue. The revenue includes in-app purchases and the purchase price of the game.

Elsewhere, Candy Crush Saga is the most installed iPhone app in the U.S., with an average of 23,194 installs daily. Pokémon GO is second with 22,331 average daily installs. In general, the top 10 most grossing iPhone games in the U.S. are cumulatively installed 6.24 million times monthly. The highlighted data excludes re-installation numbers.”

Roblox dominates U.S. iPhone gaming market with over $3 million daily revenue

The top ten grossing iPhone games in the U.S. generate an estimated average of $11.2 million in daily revenue. Roblox lead.

finbold.com

Consoles needs to have a big AAA seller each week to reach similar numbers.

 

[Jaysen]

I don’t mind. At least they update the hardware the games run on every year. If they put as much effort into game development as they do hardware…they’d probably lose money.

 

[Little Mac]

I hate touch controls and wish apple released an apple branded controller. I know it supports xbox and ps controllers but you need the consoles and/or a windows based pc to update the drivers of the controllers just so your Mac/iOS devices can acknowledge them.

 

[HTK]

I think it's great that folks game on their smartphones, definitely not for me.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Things like Apple Arcade have the right goal in mind, but the execution is pretty poor. Mobile Gaming will eventually become a worthy contender for the typical console gaming we know now. Genshin Impact, Honkai Impact, you even have Kotor and other older games running on mobile platforms.

For me, it's totally fine. If I can have AAA experiences on my phone, I will happily ditch my dedicated home consoles.

I hope Apple continues pushing Apple Arcade, but with better quality games. Can you imagine if Apple went all in and actually created in-house studios just for high quality videogames on your phone? That shit would make even more people buy iPhones.

 

[Captain Toad]

It's amazing we get real AAA videogames at all.

Puts in perspective us tearing down the differences between PlayStation, Nintendo and Xbox games while there are companies pushing shovelware full of manipulative microtransactions to become the future of gaming - and it's working.

 

[Ozrimandias]

Yeah sure, selling every game for about an eye and kidney and releasing a new console that is esentially the same every year.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Makes me really sad, when companies like Sony spending billions of dollars in making high-quality AAA games with proper voice acting, mo-cap, direction, narrative, music, and sound design, and here mobile games are raking in more profitability that rarely has any effort except monetizing the hell out of it.

Also instills a fear in me that big publishers like Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo may eventually give up on the games we love and enjoy and just adopt this model completely because it's more profitable and way less risky.

I don't want that future. Gaming is one of the very few things that give me immense enjoyment. Games like God of War, TLOU, RDR 2, Hades, Returnal. I don't want it to end.

It’s a big market and not a zero sum game

 

[Deleted member 1159]

It's amazing we get real AAA videogames at all.

Puts in perspective us tearing down the differences between PlayStation, Nintendo and Xbox games while there are companies pushing shovelware full of manipulative microtransactions to become the future of gaming - and it's working.

It’s not “the” future, it’s a part of it. I spend zero dollars on mobile games and shit ton of money on traditional PC/console games. I’m not unique. PS5 is outselling the PS4, Switch may be Nintendo’s most successful console ever, GamePass subs are through the roof. The market is expanding not contracting. There’s no reason to shit our pants over Apple making money on mobile transactions.

 

[Captain Toad]

I spend zero dollars on mobile games and shit ton of money on traditional PC/console games.

That's fine, but these companies don't care. All they are looking at is which model gets them the most profit overall, not the most money per customer.

Right now, that's the cheaply made game built around getting users to spend as much money as possible after they become invested.

 

[martino]

It's amazing we get real AAA videogames at all.

Puts in perspective us tearing down the differences between PlayStation, Nintendo and Xbox games while there are companies pushing shovelware full of manipulative microtransactions to become the future of gaming - and it's working.

There are different way to make profit...one is maybe "easier" but there is still lot of money to make with the others ones.
This binary mentality where it need the easier / better way or it will disappear is strange if you think about it.

 

[iHaunter]

There’s nothing shitty about Apple Arcade and this as a controller:

That looks VERY shitty. Only game I played on my Phone with that same controller is Genshin Impact. Never spent a penny.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

That's fine, but these companies don't care. All they are looking at is which model gets them the most profit overall, not the most money per customer.

Right now, that's the cheaply made game built around getting users to spend as much money as possible after they become invested.

Not every business is in the copy cat model. Sony is still making its AAA blockbuster games. Microsoft is still making Halo and Gears. Nintendo is releasing a 2.5D Metroid this month and another Breath of the Wild next year. There really is no reason to panic about them chasing the mobile market when they’re all raking it in doing the traditional model we all know and love

 

[Shubh_C63]

Never been into mobile gaming, but I am very excited for Diablo Immortal.

Not every business is in the copy cat model. Sony is still making its AAA blockbuster games. Microsoft is still making Halo and Gears. Nintendo is releasing a 2.5D Metroid this month and another Breath of the Wild next year. There really is no reason to panic about them chasing the mobile market when they’re all raking it in doing the traditional model we all know and love

I don't think its one way or another. Sony/MS/Nintendo are in good spot to explore mobile also, which they should aggressively also.
but honestly AAA blockbuster approach is risky. gamepass is less. Mobile is cha-ching!

Actually how is Nintendo bought Dena doing currently.

 

[Captain Toad]

Never been into mobile gaming, but I am very excited for Diablo Immortal.

I don't have a phone, guy.

 

[tonyhh]

a bit of an overreaction considering apple has a 1bn+ pool of users.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

There’s nothing shitty about Apple Arcade and this as a controller:

I was thinking the service was shity too but no, there are some good games on it.
The day Apple brings EA, Take2 and Square on it, could really hurt the 3 others.

I see Arcade as a new Game Boy, I play like 15/20 minutes and move on to something else. It's perfect for that.

 

[small_law]

Steve Jobs infamously gave zero fucks about gaming. Funny how things work out.

 

[Ogbert]

Makes me really sad, when companies like Sony spending billions of dollars in making high-quality AAA games with proper voice acting, mo-cap, direction, narrative, music, and sound design, and here mobile games are raking in more profitability that rarely has any effort except monetizing the hell out of it.

Also instills a fear in me that big publishers like Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo may eventually give up on the games we love and enjoy and just adopt this model completely because it's more profitable and way less risky.

I don't want that future. Gaming is one of the very few things that give me immense enjoyment. Games like God of War, TLOU, RDR 2, Hades, Returnal. I don't want it to end.

 

[Genx3]

Makes me really sad, when companies like Sony spending billions of dollars in making high-quality AAA games with proper voice acting, mo-cap, direction, narrative, music, and sound design, and here mobile games are raking in more profitability that rarely has any effort except monetizing the hell out of it.

Also instills a fear in me that big publishers like Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo may eventually give up on the games we love and enjoy and just adopt this model completely because it's more profitable and way less risky.

I don't want that future. Gaming is one of the very few things that give me immense enjoyment. Games like God of War, TLOU, RDR 2, Hades, Returnal. I don't want it to end.

Maybe people don't play games for the voice acting, Mo Cap, etc.

Maybe people play games because they are fun, accessible and simple.

Not everyone wants a cinematic experience with their games.

I personally hate the fact every game has turned into a light RPG. Shooters, platformers, everything wants to be a light RPG.

 

[Saber]

Games like Harry Potter mobile probably contributes with that. The game basically monetizing the very air you breath, freebies behind ads and it's stone age in terms of gameplay, presentation and graphics.

Thats the peak of games right there.

 

[CobraAB]

There’s nothing shitty about Apple Arcade and this as a controller:

Oh, there are some good games, especially on Apple Arcade. But their is a crap ton of bad stuff too. I personally have the Backbone One controller myself.

 

[Azelover]

this is sad to me..

 

[Chastten]

This shouldn't surprise anyone. There are a lot more casual players than there are gamers, and unlike hardcore gamers they don't mind spending some money on that stuff.

 

[sunnysideup]

Overwhelming majority of the gaming that is done on mobile phones are like virtual fidget spinners. Straight up time wasters.

For the most part it is a different beast than gaming on console or pc.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Never been into mobile gaming, but I am very excited for Diablo Immortal.


I don't think its one way or another. Sony/MS/Nintendo are in good spot to explore mobile also, which they should aggressively also.
but honestly AAA blockbuster approach is risky. gamepass is less. Mobile is cha-ching!

Actually how is Nintendo bought Dena doing currently.

It’s clearly not one or the other though, as demonstrated by the continued output of AAA titles from Sony and MS. And Nintendo is dabbling in mobile yet is still supporting their big games on their giant, insanely successful platform.

I have no interest in the mobile space, but there’s really zero reason to feel like the traditional game space is being threatened by it. The traditional game space is still raking it in

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Makes me really sad, when companies like Sony spending billions of dollars in making high-quality AAA games with proper voice acting, mo-cap, direction, narrative, music, and sound design, and here mobile games are raking in more profitability that rarely has any effort except monetizing the hell out of it.

Also instills a fear in me that big publishers like Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo may eventually give up on the games we love and enjoy and just adopt this model completely because it's more profitable and way less risky.

I don't want that future. Gaming is one of the very few things that give me immense enjoyment. Games like God of War, TLOU, RDR 2, Hades, Returnal. I don't want it to end.

Indies will always exist, and high budget games are profitable enough to remain viable. People had the same fear with movie streaming but the quality of movies have went down since then. Artist at the end of the day will continue to create art for us to enjoy. I'm one of the few people who hope more companies get involved in gaming.

 

[Astral Dog]

These are entirely different market/audiences, Nintendo for example has a mobile division yet even with ips like Animal Crossing, Super Mario, Mario Kart or Fire Emblem on iOS they don't earn as much as their console titles OR their titles recieve the same critical acclaim, their main goal is to move mobile players to their own platform, they make 'premium' videogames with a business model incompatible with Android/Apple stores. And its working so far, they are doing very well with the Switch as it offers something your phone can't do.

Sure, if Nintendo was the owner of a phone/tablet line that was bought by EVERYONE, or a digital store that was everywhere they would be crazy rich, but like other game developers they don't get rich ONLY for being on mobile.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Apple estimated to earn more from gaming than Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo​

Analysis suggests games generated $8.5 billion for App Store in fiscal 2019 alone

A new report suggests Apple is generating more revenue from video games than the three console platform holders -- despite not directly producing games or making games-specific hardware.

That's according to a Wall Street Journal analysis, which explored the profitability of the iOS App Store and gaming's contributions towards that.

The article cites Sensor Tower estimates that Apple received $15.9 billion from the App Store during the company's fiscal 2019 (October 2018 to September 2019).

Based on Apple's operating margin calculations, which were revealed during the Epic vs Apple trial earlier this year, the operating profit for the App Store was $12.3 billion that year -- accounting for almost a fifth of the company's overall profit.

Sensor Tower estimates that 69% of those revenues (just shy of $11 billion) came from gaming.

The WSJ's own analysis claims that Apple would have earned $8.5 billion from gaming, which it reports is $2 billion more than the operating profit generated during the same period by Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft and Activision.

The site based this on public financial records from Sony, Nintendo and Activision, and an estimate on Microsoft.

Apple disputed the operating margins during the trial and claimed they were inaccurate. CEO Tim Cook told the court the company never calculated the exact profitability of the App Store, and that the margins discussed were from a "one-off presentation."

However, he did confirm the majority of App Store revenue comes from games.

Sensor Tower estimates global spend on mobile games through the App Store reached $45 billion in fiscal 2020.

Last month, Judge Yvonne Gonzales Rogers revealed her judgment for Epic vs Apple, ruling that the latter was not a monopoly and sided with Apple on nine out of the ten counts in Epic's lawsuit.

The judge also sided with Apple's counterclaim that Epic Games breached it contract by introducing direct payments to Fortnite via a hotfix.

Epic is appealing against the ruling.

Source: Game Industry

My Paint skills are unrivalled!

Based on profits?!

Well, hell of course that's true.

Gaming profits are huge for Apple because Apple hardware and operating costs aren't considered in the gaming profit calculation the same way they are for Sony, MS and Nintendo's businesses. It's a totally apples to oranges comparison.

What a dumb thread.

 

[JCK75]

I'm sure a store taking a 30% cut on millions of shitty games is making bank... I still don't believe it's a strong platform to put out any game that isn't a candy crush clone.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

At least Apple Arcade seems to be a positive step for quality in mobile gaming.

Fixes the number one reason I hate gamepass. ‘

But now that the Epic lawsuit lets developers put links to alternative payments. This might remove a chuck of profits. Apple is dancing on the line of a monopoly.

 

[Vaelka]

The disgusting thing about this is that Apple don't view games as art or as really legit, they view them as toys for children.
And they're extremely puritanical and force developers to censor their games.

Sure they make a lot of money because of predatory business practices like MTX and casinos, but they're constantly hampering and controlling what developers do and keeping the media back.

 

[MacReady13]

It will happen sooner or later. Ms has the right idea of making a marketplaces out of the Xbox. It's just the technology is not there yet. The moment clouds will become more powerful and 5G or its successor will become widely available everyone would move there as there would be no need for any boxes be it PS, Xbox or even gaming PC.

When this is reality I'm out. This is not the gaming future I want at all. This and sub services can get fucked.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Tim Sweeney was right.

 

[Deerock71]

They're a trillion dollar company. They're making peanuts in their video game sector. Billions of peanuts.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

I refuse to believe GaaS applications are genuinely generating all their revenue honestly & organically. Waiting for the day we learn that it's all been a giant front for money laundering and/or fraud.

 

[ReBurn]

This Is the future of gaming.

 

[DrAspirino]

Makes me really sad, when companies like Sony spending billions of dollars in making high-quality AAA games with proper voice acting, mo-cap, direction, narrative, music, and sound design, and here mobile games are raking in more profitability that rarely has any effort except monetizing the hell out of it.

Also instills a fear in me that big publishers like Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo may eventually give up on the games we love and enjoy and just adopt this model completely because it's more profitable and way less risky.

I don't want that future. Gaming is one of the very few things that give me immense enjoyment. Games like God of War, TLOU, RDR 2, Hades, Returnal. I don't want it to end.

How old are you? 10?

I'm an old fart (37 yo) and I clearly remember a time when videogames were fun and graphics didn't matter, as long as the game was fun.

Why do mobile games do so well? BECAUSE THEY ARE FUN AND ADDICTIVE.

VIDEOGAMES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FUN, NOT PLAYABLE MOVIES.

If you truly believe that only AAA titles are worth shit, then my friend, you are completely and utterly wrong...

...unless you're 10 and know no better.

 

[WitchHunter]

I don't want that future. Gaming is one of the very few things that give me immense enjoyment. Games like God of War, TLOU, RDR 2, Hades, Returnal. I don't want it to end.

Nah, there will always be a place for very high quality games. There was a time when certain individuals were talking about the death of single player games. Damn, the fuckin wankers would fuck a pig after they sold their own mother to slavery if that brings in even more money.

IMO mobile games are the prime example that at the end of the day, it's the gameplay that matters first and foremost in video games, everything else is just a nice bonus, but if the sole act of playing the game isn't fun, then something went wrong. Mobile games also clearly show that people will gladly pay a buck or two every now and then, even if it means hundreds of dollars a year, than 50-70$ upfront.

But also keep in mind that all those ads you get every 3-5min. also add to the revenue, a lot actually, and I think everyone here agrees that's something we don't want to see in fully paid titles. Maybe someday someone will figure out a hybrid solution where you get paid upfront but then have additional source of constant income, that doesn't piss people off.

Yes, right before the final boss fight Kratos turns to you, breaking the 4th wall, and starts to talk about diapers. The future is coming.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

And to think all they needed was a store and a monopoly.

 

[ReBurn]

How old are you? 10?

I'm an old fart (37 yo) and I clearly remember a time when videogames were fun and graphics didn't matter, as long as the game was fun.

Why do mobile games do so well? BECAUSE THEY ARE FUN AND ADDICTIVE.

VIDEOGAMES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FUN, NOT PLAYABLE MOVIES.

If you truly believe that only AAA titles are worth shit, then my friend, you are completely and utterly wrong...

...unless you're 10 and know no better.

You aren't an old fart and you didn't really know a time when graphics didn't matter. You're barely middle aged in the gaming timeline. Graphics mattered when the first generation systems started competing. Graphics definitely mattered when the second generation was roaring. There were a lot of Atari vs. Intellivision graphics fights before you were even born. Please don't present yourself as the gatekeeper of what games are supposed to be.

 

[DrAspirino]

You aren't an old fart and you didn't really know a time when graphics didn't matter. You're barely middle aged in the gaming timeline. Graphics mattered when the first generation systems started competing. Graphics definitely mattered when the second generation was roaring. There were a lot of Atari vs. Intellivision graphics fights before you were even born. Please don't present yourself as the gatekeeper of what games are supposed to be.

Sorry, man, but most people my age (that started gaming with the Atari 2600), didn't care much about graphics or production value, as long as the game was fun. Heck, most of us waited for 20 minutes or more for a game to load from a cassette.

The most fun we got was from arcade machines, which truly had the best graphics of the time, but everything else was secondary. Heck, most of those games didn't even have a story to begin with, but were so damn fun that there were always long lines to play them.

My point is that what younger people consider "traditional gaming", in reality, is something that only the 6th generation brought. Before that, gaming arcades worked exactly like how mobile gaming works, albeit instead of a virtual arcade where people spend their coins (current model), there was a real coin that you had to spend on the arcade to play for some time (could be 1 minute, could be less or could be a lot more, depending on your skill).

If anything, mobile gaming and their microtransactions ARE the "classic" arcade gaming model, which appeal to fun and quick games, rather than long and convoluted stories.

 

[GameSeeker]

I game on PlayStation, Xbox, PC and iOS. I have a GamePass and PlayStation Plus subscription, but Apple Arcade consistently delivers the best value in gaming. Full games with no DLC or microtransactions to buy. Apple also invests heavily in gaming tech https://developer.apple.com/games/ Apple deserves their success in gaming.

 

[Genx3]

And to think all they needed was a store and a monopoly.

Apple does not have a monopoly but if you do consider the Apple app store a monopoly then by the same token you would have to consider The Play Station store, Nintendo store and Xbox store monopolies as well.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Makes me really sad, when companies like Sony spending billions of dollars in making high-quality AAA games with proper voice acting, mo-cap, direction, narrative, music, and sound design, and here mobile games are raking in more profitability that rarely has any effort except monetizing the hell out of it.

Also instills a fear in me that big publishers like Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo may eventually give up on the games we love and enjoy and just adopt this model completely because it's more profitable and way less risky.

I don't want that future. Gaming is one of the very few things that give me immense enjoyment. Games like God of War, TLOU, RDR 2, Hades, Returnal. I don't want it to end.

Brilliant post and wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Kerotan]

Makes me really sad, when companies like Sony spending billions of dollars in making high-quality AAA games with proper voice acting, mo-cap, direction, narrative, music, and sound design, and here mobile games are raking in more profitability that rarely has any effort except monetizing the hell out of it.

Also instills a fear in me that big publishers like Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo may eventually give up on the games we love and enjoy and just adopt this model completely because it's more profitable and way less risky.

I don't want that future. Gaming is one of the very few things that give me immense enjoyment. Games like God of War, TLOU, RDR 2, Hades, Returnal. I don't want it to end.

Don't forget those type of games require more effort to play and are less addictive then their mobile counter parts.

 

[cartman414]

Maybe people don't play games for the voice acting, Mo Cap, etc.

Maybe people play games because they are fun, accessible and simple.

Not everyone wants a cinematic experience with their games.

I personally hate the fact every game has turned into a light RPG. Shooters, platformers, everything wants to be a light RPG.

Many mobile games do just that though for progression.

 

[Silver Wattle]

We as a society really need to regulate these insane amounts of microtransactions and ads in games, it has to be fucking us up mentally and economically.

 

[Woopah]

They are very different. But how long until one exec gets the light-bulb moment and says "if mobile gaming is more popular, why not we make that our primary model and spend 80% of our resources on?" That's what I am afraid of and that's why I don't support these money-driven mobile games. I never play or pay for them.

i mean abandon console gaming completely and go for 100% on mobile gaming, i do know they already have mobile games and planning to expand into mobile market.

Im still happy with my PS5 actually.

If Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft wanted to become Apple they wouldn't do it by making mobile games, they'd have to physically manufacture mobile phones.

I can't see Nintendo doing that and I don't think Sony or Microsoft's efforts in this area went very well.