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Are handhelds the future? Can we reduce dev time and costs with them?
- Thread starter Kurotri
- Start date
RetroGamingUK
Member
Worth remembering that the last time Nintendo and Sony tried to support a home console and handheld console at the same time it didn’t work out.
Wii U and Vita both struggled while their manufacturers were trying to split development between two platforms.
Any future handheld must be compatible with all games on the home system. So ideally the next Sony handheld would need to play either PS5 games or PS6 games. For brand simplicity, it should also bear either the PS5 or PS6 name (thought it doesn’t necessarily need to use the same architecture).
However in order to achieve this, they’ll have to endure the problems that developers are having with Xbox Series S support being mandatory to get games on Series X. If it only plays some of the games then the market may become confused. And no, using the “SteamDeck Verified” model isn’t simple enough for the mass market.
Wii U and Vita both struggled while their manufacturers were trying to split development between two platforms.
Any future handheld must be compatible with all games on the home system. So ideally the next Sony handheld would need to play either PS5 games or PS6 games. For brand simplicity, it should also bear either the PS5 or PS6 name (thought it doesn’t necessarily need to use the same architecture).
However in order to achieve this, they’ll have to endure the problems that developers are having with Xbox Series S support being mandatory to get games on Series X. If it only plays some of the games then the market may become confused. And no, using the “SteamDeck Verified” model isn’t simple enough for the mass market.
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StueyDuck
Member
you can do all this without being on a nerfed overpriced handheld.
Astrobot just released and MS has put out (although not cared about) titles like hi-fi rush and grounded.
It's the chase for everything to make fortnite money that is destroying most things. We are in an era of just consume consume, more content... So we get the same slop repackaged in a different skin and that is what gamers are getting bored of. It's why a Helldivers 2 can take the world by storm, while nothing unique, it was just different from your generic AAA slop and same goes for space marine 2, not breaking any ground but they focused on good old fashioned fun over content, content, consume, content.
We also just need pubs and devs to stop fighting with and hating their audience and instead just embrace them.
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Any handheld by Sony/Microsoft is going to have to support the exact same games as PS6 and whatever Xbox Next we get. This is the standard Steam Deck and PC handhelds has set. Anything else is DOA.
The future is just making games with highly scalable graphics which can range from like 10W to 600W GPUs, everything else like RAM, storage speed and CPU performance etc is fairly fine between device categories.
The future is just making games with highly scalable graphics which can range from like 10W to 600W GPUs, everything else like RAM, storage speed and CPU performance etc is fairly fine between device categories.
Parazels
Member
Among the current handhelds I take seriously only Switch, because I know there is Nintendo's power behind the console. I believe them.
I can't take seriously pc handhelds. They feel like experimental devices with no guarantee, no optimization, no clear future.
My conclusion? Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft are able to create a mass market portable console, because they are very respectable companies. I think customers figure out the same.
Asus, Lenovo, MSI etc? No.
Valve? Maybe, but it's still in the shitty pc niche.
I can't take seriously pc handhelds. They feel like experimental devices with no guarantee, no optimization, no clear future.
My conclusion? Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft are able to create a mass market portable console, because they are very respectable companies. I think customers figure out the same.
Asus, Lenovo, MSI etc? No.
Valve? Maybe, but it's still in the shitty pc niche.
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Schmendrick
Member
Tell me you've never looked at PC power and performance stats for any component without telling me that you've never looked at any power and performance stats.....
RetroGamingUK
Member
A low powered basic handheld would also be under constant threat from mobile and smartphones
I think the iPhone is a big reason why the PS Vita didn’t take off. The SteamDeck form factor is the way forward, but they’ll also need console sensibilities (eg: every PS5 game runs and runs well) for them to be mass market.
As much as I loved the PSP, iPhone changed everything and there’s no going back to that.
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RetroGamingUK
Member
Fully agree, only Sony can have mass market success here (outside Nintendo anyway).
But they must learn from the mistakes with the Vita and not end up supporting two platforms again.
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Minsc
Gold Member
There's a big (monumental) gap in the gaming library between a low powered handheld like the 3DS or Switch and the iPhone's native mobile apps. iPhone has like Genshin and HSR, and almost nothing else of note, certainly not in the numbers 3DS or Switch has, where you can list off thousands of AA and 1st party games without even blinking an eye.
It definitely feels like handhelds which can run 75%+ of multiplatform games are a viable solution for gaming/gamers to continue existing and iterating on themselves.
Or handhelds that target the prior gen - like people keep saying they'd love to see Sony release a PS4 handheld. I think if we see Sony move past the PS Portal to another handheld or a MS sponsored/branded PC gaming handheld (I mean the Ally/Go is basically this already with gamepass), but perhaps with the Xbox OS or something, that'll just be even more evidence the handheld market is thriving.
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RetroGamingUK
Member
I made a thread about this, people don’t seem keen…
PS4 Portable - would you buy one?
With rumours of Sony getting back into the handheld market thanks to the success of the Switch and the launch of several PC based handheld, I’m starting to think this could be a good idea. - Unlike PSP and Vita it wouldn’t require its own set of games developing from scratch, thus avoiding the...
I think a PS5 Portable releasing towards the end of the generation would be the best bet
- Keep costs down
- Have a huge library of games available at launch
- Take advantage of the inevitable cross gen once PS6 launches
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Well, yah. The current gen leader is the Nintendo Switch, which is a hybrid handheld and double as a home console. And hybrid handheld models has a lot of rooms to grow. Sooner or later the gap with home console will be so close or negligible, you’ll have to zoom in to tell the difference like the PS5 Pro trailer
Sony is currently trapped in the neverending chase for more fidelity while their products get more expensive, and at the same time the rest is going to raise the bar of hybrid handheld gaming.
Sony is currently trapped in the neverending chase for more fidelity while their products get more expensive, and at the same time the rest is going to raise the bar of hybrid handheld gaming.
?
It's already the case. Wukong is the #1 played game on Steam Deck currently and looks to be decently above 30 fps. The same game will also make a 600W RTX 5090 sweat at 4K in the pathtraced cinematic preset.
GoldenEye98
posts news as their odd job
The status quo for AAA development isn't sustainable...
Schmendrick
Member
Yeah, I'm not gonna start explaining why different kinds of games hit hardware very differently from scratch here.....
We've just come from a gen with very imbalanced hardware and the issues with that have been discussed ad nauseum.
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LavitzSlambert
Member
There's still a place for both, but as the gap between handhelds and traditional home consoles decreases, we will increasingly see people opt for handhelds. Think about the desktop market vs laptops - for the vast majority of people, laptops are just a superior option.
Ammogeddon
Member
They’re certainly the future for me. I bought an ally x on a bit of a whim a couple of weeks and it’s hands down one of the best bits of tech I’ve bought in a long while. Bear in mind I’m new to PC gaming too though. Games look and play way better than I thought they would. I dock it to my TV as well, and when I pair that with GeForce Now I’m golden.
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
I’m sure handhelds are great you have Nintendo a real handheld empire and you want Microsoft making handhelds? Talk about a quick fix.
ReyBrujo
Member
A long development time is the symptom, not the cause though. Bad resource management, bloated development teams, bad communication, feature creep, etc, etc make developers take more time.
RickMasters
Member
Boooooy….. I really hope not. Only so much you can do with a handheld as far as power/ performance.
I love my ally but I would never replace my PCs or Xbox with it. It’s more a compliment to them. It’s spend most of its time on my car, and on the road with me. When I’m at home it’s all about console and PC.
I love my ally but I would never replace my PCs or Xbox with it. It’s more a compliment to them. It’s spend most of its time on my car, and on the road with me. When I’m at home it’s all about console and PC.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
No. Handhelds mean you get less performance for your money, that's just how it works. I want maximum quality on my TV. Immersion on a tiny handheld screen is close to zero.
(I do enjoy the hybrid concept of the Switch, but making that the only thing that exists? No thanks.)
(I do enjoy the hybrid concept of the Switch, but making that the only thing that exists? No thanks.)
RoadHazard
Gold Member
I hope to everything that is holy that this does not happen. Sounds like a recipe for a fragmented disaster scenario where every game will be limited by what the lowest common denominator can handle. Much worse than the current situation with the XSS.
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RodriGames40
Member
If this handheld will do better at handling UE5 and current gen engines than the existing home consoles, then yeah. I suppose it will inherit the AI units from the bigger PS6 just like Switch 2, as well.
Azelover
Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
I'm personally more concerned with the death of Moore's law. People want more powerful hardware, but it's gonna come at a cost...
As far as game development goes, we're in a tight spot right now. But I think when AI gets better, the cost of game development will come down aswell. Even the big ones..
As far as game development goes, we're in a tight spot right now. But I think when AI gets better, the cost of game development will come down aswell. Even the big ones..
AndrewRyan
Member
Ideal gaming for me is 120fps on the largest OLED I can find. However been traveling the last year and gaming primarily on the Steam Deck. And the last two months been using them with Viture XR glasses, bumping up the resolution to 1080p. It's a damn good substitution. I feel as the glasses technology improves these mobile devices will surely grab huge chunks of market share.
RetroGamingUK
Member
I’m guessing with this theory…
PC console power/graphics progression stops around 2040
Handhelds also stop, ending up quite weaker than consoles with no room for hrowth
Mobile phones also stop, ending up another step behind due to the market valuing the smaller size
At that point, the focus should shift from graphics (though graphics will be more than good enough for everyone by then).
At this point I also think streaming will really grow, but there will be a market limit due to lack of ownership.
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YeulEmeralda
Linux User
The Steam Deck is overrated. Its a niche toy for 40 year old nerds.
Call me when it reaches even PSP numbers.
Call me when it reaches even PSP numbers.
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NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
The gaming industry spent too much chasing cinema, and the TV industry somehow managed to slip wall-sized screens into more households than I would ever believe remotely possible (some people have convinced themselves that using a 42” as a desktop monitor is totally legit, ffs). They are not going to scale back after that. Or rather, they may try to combat the inevitable contraction of the home console market caused by the similarly inevitable raise of hardware prices. But they will be quick to backpedal when they find out that people are not going to compromise when they’ve been fed increasingly better realistic graphics for two and a half decades, and when people have gotten used to the biggest screen estate they can fit in their living room.
Handhelds are devices for people who commute a lot and want to play home games anywhere. In the west, that’s a niche that’s not going to expand as much as it’d need to in the age of ubiquitous smartphones.
People didn’t buy the Vita because they wanted the “real thing” on TVs that were getting bigger and bigger.
DS and PSP benefited enormously from 1) smartphones being in their infancy as do-it-all devices, and 2) widespread, easy-as-pie piracy.
These conditions are never going to happen again. Switch is successful thanks to Nintendo and Pokemon.
I’m all for competent handhelds, but they’re going to remain a complement for “real” gaming hardware for the foreseeable future.
Handhelds are devices for people who commute a lot and want to play home games anywhere. In the west, that’s a niche that’s not going to expand as much as it’d need to in the age of ubiquitous smartphones.
People didn’t buy the Vita because they wanted the “real thing” on TVs that were getting bigger and bigger.
DS and PSP benefited enormously from 1) smartphones being in their infancy as do-it-all devices, and 2) widespread, easy-as-pie piracy.
These conditions are never going to happen again. Switch is successful thanks to Nintendo and Pokemon.
I’m all for competent handhelds, but they’re going to remain a complement for “real” gaming hardware for the foreseeable future.
Trilobit
Member
I'm getting so sick and tired of open-world games like Horizon or Ghost of Tsushima that have barely any physics mechanics and poor interactivity with the world. I don't need every object to be destructable, but try at least making something that doesn't make you feel like you're just on a movie set wandering around. BotW is several generations behind both of those games graphically, but it actually made me feel connected to it and like I had an affect on the world. If pulling the breaks is what's needed for developers to focus on other things than high fidelity graphics then so be it.
Deerock71
Member
I'm sorry (but NOT sorry), but the Wii U suffered, FIRST AND FOREMOST, from a marketing decision. If they simply called it Wii 2 or Super Wii, it would have trod the path the Switch is currently sailing.
ZehDon
Member
We're starting to leave the zone of cost-effective console gaming, with consoles set to be positioned as "premium devices" with price tags to match. Handhelds introduce several physical restrictions - heat, weight, and size - that limit the scope of what can actually be put into the device, thus limiting its price compared to traditional consoles. With AUD$1,200.00 PlayStations on the horizon, and consoles that aren't being properly used four years into the generation while struggling to run poorly optimised and bloated games that are visually indistinguishable from last generation titles, I'll welcome anything that might get us off this current industry track.
GoldenEye98
posts news as their odd job
"If your homeless....just buy a house"
Wildebeest
Member
If you look at what people seem to want to play on the steam deck it is Cyberpunk, Baldur's Gate 3, Elden Ring, Wukong, God of War. So, nooooooo.
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ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
This is the sweet thing about current handheld PC’s hybrid concept taken from Nintendo Switch. It is also applicable to consumers too, who can now carry their Switch 2, Steam Deck, ROG Ally or any PC handheld for some LAN or multiplayer gaming during visiting or gathering. And they are only going to get more powerful in the coming years and close the game.
Now, any handheld PC can handle every PS5 non-VR games like Rift Apart or GOW Ragnarok. Sooner or later they will handle these games with better fidelity. There’s a lot of room to grow.
We’re moving into the era with such freedom. No more tethering to a TV just to play games. But that will only be possible if the platforms can handle games with various fidelity. It will be dumb to get a game designed for TV to work on a portable without impact such as battery draw due to rendering 4K and bunch of graphical effects.
This generation Nintendo and Microsoft has been asking their 3rd party developer to craft lower fidelity of their games for Nintendo Switch and Series S, so getting them to work on next gen handhelds like Switch 2 or Xbox portable is a smaller issue. PC games are very scalable with bunch of settings to cater for various hardware, from high end desktop to low end laptop, so getting them to work on handheld PC is just an easy extension.
It is only Sony who’s going to be unprepared for this, as the PS5 games are optimized for only high end home consoles gaming environment. Getting every PS5 games to work on a portable is going to have issues like lower battery life. The developers would have to go back to optimize and offer a handheld version of their PS5 games which is unrealistic. By the time a PS handheld improved to the point where they can easily handle PS5 games with high end console fidelity like 4K and ray tracing, PS7 would have been released.
chokotoureiki
Member
Yeah, the introduction of laptops and hybrid PC tablets didn't cease the production of desktop PCs.
The proliferation of home TVs didn't stop people from attending movie theaters.
Same deal with handhelds and home consoles. They will always co-exist. The Switch's success will never take away the demand for premium games. Sure, development costs are rising, but companies are also making more money than ever and gamers are still willing to pay good money for high budget AAA experiences like Wukong, RDR2, Spiderman 2, and the upcoming GTA 6, which is gonna be a massive game that will sell gangbusters I'm sure of that won't be possible on underpowered hardware like the Switch.
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kevboard
Member
handhelds are the future in the sense that we will reach a point in the next 20 to 30 years where the amount of hardware power you can get in a portable device and the limit of what AAA dev teams can produce will be matched.
then the hardware will slowly grow above the power needed to basically perfectly run anything any dev team can throw at it.
once that point is reached it would be nonsensical to have a stationary device when your portable device can deliver the same quality and can easily be connected to a TV to be used on the big screen.
then the hardware will slowly grow above the power needed to basically perfectly run anything any dev team can throw at it.
once that point is reached it would be nonsensical to have a stationary device when your portable device can deliver the same quality and can easily be connected to a TV to be used on the big screen.
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chokotoureiki
Member
Not without jacking up the price though. Compact devices tend to be more expensive to manufacture than stationary ones. Laptops are a great example of why they cost more than desktops.
yurinka
Member
Steamdeck only sold around 3.3M units and pretty likely the other PC handhelds sold much less. But I think a big potential there. I think that in the future can take the role of Series S but being hybrid consoles, and at the same time a minimum baseline regarding what hardware should support PC games.
At the same time, they can be the succesor of -in case of PS- the PS Player: using it also as a Remote Play player and as cloud gaming player.
And as PC+console+mobile keep converging as market getting more games like Fortnite or the MiHoyo ones, they may also take the role of a more hardcore and premium yet approchable gaming device for mobile phone players.
I think in the future these PC handhelds won't replace PC, home consoles or mobile gaming. But will be complementary to all 3 and also the bridge between them.
Sony already is a top 10 publisher on Steam history, and I think in a handful years will open their own PC PSN, which I assume will be heavily integrated with the conosle one (crossbuy, crossplay, shared cloud saves, shared friends and trophies etc. to all) and obviously would be greatly benefited from getting a PS PC handheld that would also complement their home console and act as lower horsepower cheaper entry point for it.
Multiple crossed synergies that I think would turn them on the biggest player on the PC handhelds. Which combined with the other ones from the other brands, I think will keep eating Switch market share.
At the same time, they can be the succesor of -in case of PS- the PS Player: using it also as a Remote Play player and as cloud gaming player.
And as PC+console+mobile keep converging as market getting more games like Fortnite or the MiHoyo ones, they may also take the role of a more hardcore and premium yet approchable gaming device for mobile phone players.
I think in the future these PC handhelds won't replace PC, home consoles or mobile gaming. But will be complementary to all 3 and also the bridge between them.
Sony already is a top 10 publisher on Steam history, and I think in a handful years will open their own PC PSN, which I assume will be heavily integrated with the conosle one (crossbuy, crossplay, shared cloud saves, shared friends and trophies etc. to all) and obviously would be greatly benefited from getting a PS PC handheld that would also complement their home console and act as lower horsepower cheaper entry point for it.
Multiple crossed synergies that I think would turn them on the biggest player on the PC handhelds. Which combined with the other ones from the other brands, I think will keep eating Switch market share.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Din din din, i would straight up stop playing if this would happen.
Killjoy-NL
Gold Member
RCX
Member
Not suggesting the deck by itself is the future. But it seems to have lit a fire under every major player in the console space (besides Nintendo who were already there) to the point where they're all making moves towards their own mobile consoles.
What I'm saying is that the compromises made on handheld dont matter anything as much as I thought they did when I was exclusively playing on a PC with a much larger screen