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[Yoboman]

What? You made a claim and I debunked it with 3 facts. You want more still?

Their deal has been for 10 years, it's a shit deal from Sony's perspective so Jim wants to block it. Haven't seen Microsoft offer anything more substantial

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Trillion-dollar tech company cries to its government daddy (that it bankrolls) because it can't seem to compete in a territory that has largely moved away from consoles anyway.

I don't even... lol

 

[BlitzerRadic]

Userbase is King. Sony is the market leader by far. In what world would a developer consort with MS if Sony approached them for a deal? If Sony approaches you for a deal, you take it. Being aligned as Playstation exclusive can greatly increase your mindshare with the largest part of the market.

LOL listen to yourself. There was no way MS could ever get a deal for COD from ATVI because Sony market share so instead they just buy the entire company.

 

[Yoboman]

Sony has been "dragged" into what?

Sony hasn't been dragged into anything. This is such a hilarious take.

Microsoft is employing a tactic that is literally enshrined into the American constitution. May want to deal with the burn that two can play the influence game and Jim Ryan isn't the only that can play the tough guy (and look like a complete nincompoop in the process).

Yes dragged into it, it's a deal that involves MS and Activision and Sony gets called in as an additional party. You think Sony want to be going through the process of illustrating to regulators why Microsoft's aggressive anti competitive tactics are bad for them and their customers?

 

[Imtjnotu]

11 out of 535.

 

[Abriael_GN]

Yes dragged into it, it's a deal that involves MS and Activision and Sony gets called in as an additional party. You think Sony want to be going through the process of illustrating to regulators why Microsoft's aggressive anti competitive tactics are bad for them and their customers?

Sony did not "get dragged" into a single thing. They actively decided to try to block the acquisition. They dragged *themselves* into it.

Painting Sony as a victim of this whole kerfuffle of their own making is literally the most hilarious thing I've seen today.

Imagine thinking that Microsoft's tactics are "aggressive anti competitive" but Sony literally paying developers not to put their games on Xbox and on Game Pass isn't. No one's innocent. No one's a victim. They all are aggressive. Wake up.

 

[CamHostage]

Eh, it's a fair question to look into, even though the most obvious answer is clear....

Japan has never been much interested in Xbox, even when MS was throwing money into the territory and trying to get Mistwalker games over, and only the refrigerator-sized PS5 has made then question their long time love. Japanese gamers have just never picked Xbox no matter the incentive.

However, Sony gets Final Fantasy XVI and VII Remake, it gets Silent Hill 2 Remake, it got Street Fighter 5, it just gets these big Japanese franchise, no questions asked. Shouldn't questions be asked? The "moneyhat" biz goes both ways, of course, (and with all the recent mergers and lobbying, maybe it's time all of that is finally coming under the microscope, ) but MS doesn't get Japanese brands anymore. If that's for fair reasons why (which is probably so? ), then Sony should have no worries, but if it's a preferential relationship then it could be looked into.

 

[LQX]

MS really tried with Japan. The original XBox was like continuation of the Dreamcast and had some great Japanese games but they soon dried up as the XBox could not get a foothold in Japan which is damn fucking shame. It made no damn sense.

 

[Abriael_GN]

Trillion-dollar tech company cries to its government daddy (that it bankrolls) because it can't seem to compete in a territory that has largely moved away from consoles anyway.

I don't even... lol

Billion dollar tech company crying to antitrust regulators because a deal would slightly weaken its existing and overwhelming market leadership position is so much better, right?

 

[CamHostage]

The East is simply ignoring xbox.
The creators of Genshin Impacts new game is also not on xbox.

Except that's because of a deal. The Genshin deal ironically could have gone Microsofts way if they had played their cards right, but either way, it's not because of lack of interest in the Xbox buying audience.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2022/10/genshin-impact-xbox

BTW, the Playstation strength in China is partly from investment in that market, as Sony has its China Hero Project development fund and other initiatives in China.

MS would like to have a better presence in China, but in the meantime, they have concentrated their foreign outreach to Korea, thus stuff like Crossfire X and Kart Riders. It hasn't succeeded in marketshare, but it has brought some global Korean franchises over.

 

[fallingdove]

Are you in favor of lobbying regulators but not members of congress?

What goes around comes around. Two can play the game.

Lobbying is a legally recognized part of American politics. It's an entirely screwed-up part of it, but they're 100% playing by the rules. Welcome to American politics.

Have some study material: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/043015/why-lobbying-legal-and-important-us.asp (not that I agree, but it'll educate you on the topic).

Yeah, I understand the purpose of lobbying. I don’t agree with mega-corporations using large sums of money to prioritize their own interests. This feels like a gross manipulation of governmental bodies and the free market. And the timing of it all — the tech industry is crumbling, inflation is at a record high, banks are claiming insolvency, the divide between the ultra rich and the ultra poor is as wide as its ever been… Yeah, fuck Microsoft.

 

[Yoboman]

Sony did not "get dragged" into a single thing. They actively decided to try to block the acquisition. They dragged *themselves* into it.

Painting Sony as a victim of this whole kerfuffle of their own making is literally the most hilarious thing I've seen today.

Imagine thinking that Microsoft's tactics are "aggressive anti competitive" but Sony literally paying developers not to put their games on Xbox and on Game Pass isn't. No one's innocent. No one's a victim. They all are aggressive. Wake up.

Bros getting super salty. Sorry I don't agree the standard time exclusives and exclusives that have been happening since the 80s are the same as buying 2 of the 6 biggest publishers in America.

So yeah, MS doesn't go around doing that, then they don't have Sony calling them out for it in the courts, and they don't have to go crying to their paid up congressman to cry about their failures in a foreign market

 

[quest]

I think most are over looking the fact the EU is the end game here. Get congress talking about it to get this on the EU radar who loves investigating. This is a way to plant the seed of the money hat conversion with regulators by using the Sony's market definition against them. I am guessing Sony will regret fighting so hard to block this it when it blinded themselves to unintended consequences.

 

[Abriael_GN]

Yeah, I understand the purpose of lobbying. I don’t agree with mega-corporations using large sums of money to prioritize their own interests. This feels like a gross manipulation of governmental bodies and the free market. And the timing of it all — the tech industry is crumbling, inflation is at a record high, banks are claiming insolvency, the divide between the ultra rich and the ultra poor is as wide as its ever been… Yeah, fuck Microsoft.

But Sony doing the lobbying is fine right?

Bros getting super salty. Sorry I don't agree the standard time exclusives and exclusives that have been happening since the 80s are the same as buying 2 of the 6 biggest publishers in America.

So yeah, MS doesn't go around doing that, then they don't have Sony calling them out for it in the courts, and they don't have to go crying to their paid up congressman to cry about their failures in a foreign market

Poor little Sony, "dragged" into a conflict that they entirely created themselves to block a deal that did not involve them in any shape or form between two different companies.

You buy a house and I want it too, so I sue you to block your right to buy it, and somehow, you're the one "dragging" me into it, right?

Console fanboys are hilarious.

I've got a newsflash for you. If Sony did not want to get involved in this, all they had to do was not get involved. No one forced them to move a finger. No one dragged them anywhere. They picked the fight entirely on their own.

 

[adamsapple]

11 out of 535.

The checks are in the mail as we speak.

 

[Fess]

Cool this is thread #3 on this circus on the ignore list

 

[Varteras]

Cool this is thread #3 on this circus on the ignore list

 

[fallingdove]

But Sony doing the lobbying is fine right?

I wouldn’t agree with Sony buying European regulators either. That’s kind of implied with “I don’t agree with mega-corporations using large sums of money to prioritize their own interests”. Isn’t this thread about the 11 members of congress that Microsoft bought to fight their battles?

 

[Abriael_GN]

I wouldn’t agree with Sony buying European regulators either. That’s kind of implied with “I don’t agree with mega-corporations using large sums of money to prioritize their own interests”. Isn’t this thread about the 11 members of congress that Microsoft bought to fight their battles?

Money, influence, it's all the same in business. If you think Sony hasn't lobbied regulators to try to get their way, you're even more naive than it seems.

It's a two-player game and Microsoft has started playing with the tools legally provided to them to respond to Sony's own lobbying. If you've got an issue with it, I suggest protesting the American constitution.

 

[Topher]

I think most are over looking the fact the EU is the end game here. Get congress talking about it to get this on the EU radar who loves investigating. This is a way to plant the seed of the money hat conversion with regulators by using the Sony's market definition against them. I am guessing Sony will regret fighting so hard to block this it when it blinded themselves to unintended consequences.

If Microsoft wanted to take this up with the EU then they could have done that.......when this was in front of the EU. No, this is just putting political pressure on the FTC to get the ABK deal approved. Nothing more.

 

[BennyBlanco]

If they were a 2T company with the same market position, there's still no need to buy Ativision. It's a waste of capital because Activision is already preferentially positioned on their platform.

If, on the other hand, they were a 2T company that cannot meet their competitive objectives despite employing the largest developer/studio payroll in the business already, then a $70B acquisition of the world's largest third party studio MAY be implicated if they still want to compete in that business.

if you totally ignore the context of the situation, sure. ABK was actively seeking buyers, leaving one of Sonys biggest revenue earners and ps+ sub drivers future up in the air. If they could afford it they would’ve been in the mix to buy them 100%.

 

[Abriael_GN]

If Microsoft wanted to take this up with the EU then they could have done that.......when this was in front of the EU. No, this is just putting political pressure on the FTC to get the ABK deal approved. Nothing more.

This is exactly what it is.

Lina Khan and her cronies have made this entirely political to begin with, and Microsoft is using its own political pressure to counter her power grab.

Researching Lina Khan is a good start to get some perspective on this, and it's absolutely not a positive perspective. She's driven by a massive political agenda that has absolutely nothing to do with consumer interest.

 

[quest]

If Microsoft wanted to take this up with the EU then they could have done that.......when this was in front of the EU. No, this is just putting political pressure on the FTC to get the ABK deal approved. Nothing more.

The ftc leader is a crusader political pressure is meaningless for a person like that. Microsoft doesn't have the political capital to put pressure on the EU so instead is attempting to back-door this to get this on radar with out directly asking. If Microsoft cried to the EU directly they get laughed at. Using congress to get this started lets the EU investigate with out looking like Microsoft lackeys.

 

[Yoboman]

But Sony doing the lobbying is fine right?



Poor little Sony, "dragged" into a conflict that they entirely created themselves to block a deal that did not involve them in any shape or form between two different companies.

You buy a house and I want it too, so I sue you to block your right to buy it, and somehow, you're the one "dragging" me into it, right?

Console fanboys are hilarious.

I've got a newsflash for you. If Sony did not want to get involved in this, all they had to do was not get involved. No one forced them to move a finger. No one dragged them anywhere. They picked the fight entirely on their own.

You do realise that all parties have been subpoenaed into this investigations right? Try google if you don't understand what a subpoena is

Keep crying about Sony because Microsoft didn't get a free ride through the regulatory system. This was getting investigated with or without Sony being called into it. Or maybe you just naively expected Sony to be A-OK with Microsoft taking a few hundred million out of their bottom line every year?

And you talking about anyone being a fanboy the way you're acting is the hilarious thing

 

[AncientOrigin]

Where were these congress men when Microsoft started all that in the Xbox 360 era kept games away from PlayStation payed for exclusives bribed news outlet to spread shit about PlayStation bribed video games sites to review PS3 games worse.

 

[Abriael_GN]

You do realise that all parties have been subpoenaed into this investigations right? Try google if you don't understand what a subpoena is

Keep crying about Sony because Microsoft didn't get a free ride through the regulatory system. This was getting investigated with or without Sony being called into it. Or maybe you just naively expected Sony to be A-OK with Microsoft taking a few hundred million out of their bottom line every year?

And you talking about anyone being a fanboy the way you're acting is the hilarious thing

Sony involved itself in this issue much before it was subpoenaed. The subpoena is a result of their own voluntary involvement. They decided to oppose the deal out of their own free will.

What Microsoft takes from their bottom line doesn't involve me and doesn't change one bit the fact that opposing the deal was their choice. They went to cry to the regulators entirely on their own. No one forced them to.

Acting like they're a victim is hilarious.

Incidentally, I'm a PC gamer. The last consoles I bought are the PS4 and the Xbox One. The only fanboying I get involved with is the fanboying I laugh at.

There's much more at stake here than the ABK deal. Regulators, especially the FTC, are trying to make a power grab over the gaming industry that they now perceive as important for their own agenda. Agenda-driven politicians and bureaucrats like Lina Khan sinking their teeth into the gaming industry, about which they are fundamentally ignorant, is absolutely damaging, and Sony aligning with them is incredibly short-sighted and is gonna bite them as well in the ass in the long run, unless Microsoft defeats their power grab.

 

[fallingdove]

Money, influence, it's all the same in business. If you think Sony hasn't lobbied regulators to try to get their way, you're even more naive than it seems.

It's a two-player game and Microsoft has started playing with the tools legally provided to them to respond to Sony's own lobbying. If you've got an issue with it, I suggest protesting the American constitution.

I am not in agreement with any abuse of lobbying whether it is Sony or Microsoft. But thank god you brought an ample supply of “whataboutism” to this thread. I’m sure you felt bad that the ABK thread was slowing down. You needed to make sure the non-equivalent message of timed exclusive to publisher exclusive lived on.

And sure it’s legal, but I can’t imagine that the creators of said constitution intended for obscene wealth to elevate corporate needs above those of the actual American public. But you know, deep down the founding fathers were really anti-representation.

 

[mrmustard]

Another battlefield of a thread.

 

[ParaSeoul]

Proof we live in a clown world,back then Microsoft was kept in check.

 

[Yoboman]

Sony involved itself in this issue much before it was subpoenaed. The subpoena is a result of their own voluntary involvement. They decided to oppose the deal out of their own free will.

What Microsoft takes from their bottom line doesn't involve me and doesn't change one bit the fact that opposing the deal was their choice. They went to cry to the regulators entirely on their own. No one forced them to.

Acting like they're a victim is hilarious.

PS: I'm a PC gamer. The last consoles I bought are the PS4 and the Xbox One. The only fanboying I get involved with is the fanboying I laugh at.

Good lord. You realise Google, NVIDIA, Nintendo, Valve, even fricking Take Two have been subpoenaed right? This is not voluntary, they are legally required to provide information and opinion

"The subpoena is a result of their own voluntary involvement. They decided to oppose the deal out of their own free will."

Tales from your ass I suppose?

Who said it involved you? Bro thinks he is part of the case. Guess what? Businesses run on self interest, you're the one crying in here right now that Sony is acting in their own self interest

 

[Truespeed]

When you only round up 11 you know you're dealing with bottom feeders. They were likely promised an Xbox game pass for a strongly worded letter.

 

[Abriael_GN]

I am not in agreement with any abuse of lobbying whether it is Sony or Microsoft. But thank god you brought an ample supply of “whataboutism” to this thread. I’m sure you felt bad that the ABK thread was slowing down. You needed to make sure the non-equivalent message of timed exclusive to publisher exclusive lived on.

And sure it’s legal, but I can’t imagine that the creators of said constitution intended for obscene wealth to elevate corporate needs above those of the actual American public. But you know, deep down the founding fathers were really anti-representation.

Any removal of the availability of content and options is bad for consumers, regardless of who it comes from. If it was for me, exclusivity deals of all kinds would not exist. Which kind of removal is worse is entirely debatable. For instance, it can easily be argued that preventing companies from publishing their games on game pass has one of the worst influences on customer choice, as you're basically removing an entire purchase model. You could make arguments of pretty equivalent value on all removals.

What the founding fathers wanted is beside the point. Companies are given legal tools to apply their own political pressure exactly like agencies like the FTC have their own tools. In an ideal world where these regulators are truly neutral, there would be no need for companies to be able to wield their own political pressure, but Lina Khan has proven abundantly that said neutrality does not exist. The FTC has never been as driven by its own political agenda as it is now in decades. Lobbying isn't savory, but it's the only way companies have to counter that agenda.

 

[mansoor1980]

ROUND 2

fight

at least 500 pages required for this thread

dont fail neogaf

 

[nial]

Japan studio's real decline started much later than anything even close to when Yoshida-san was in that role.

When and what could be considered to be the real decline of the studio, though?

 

[ulantan]

When and what could be considered to be the real decline of the studio, though?

You know the answer is going to be jim ryan

 

[Abriael_GN]

Good lord. You realise Google, NVIDIA, Nintendo, Valve, even fricking Take Two have been subpoenaed right? This is not voluntary, they are legally required to provide information and opinion

"The subpoena is a result of their own voluntary involvement. They decided to oppose the deal out of their own free will."

Tales from your ass I suppose?

Who said it involved you? Bro thinks he is part of the case. Guess what? Businesses run on self interest, you're the one crying in here right now that Sony is acting in their own self interest

Actually, you're the one crying here. Oh my god, lobbying exists! Imagine that. So evil of Microsoft to use legal and constitutionally recognized tools to counter hostile moves made against them.

Sony's opposition to the ABK deal predates the subpoena. Try again.

You know the answer is going to be jim ryan

Nah, the answer is Allan Becker, with the final nail in the coffin by Nicolas Doucet who did everything he could to provide an advantage to his own team at the expense of the old guard of the studio, that quit en masse as a result. It certainly wasn't Yoshida-san who triggered a wave of departures a decade after his involvement with Japan Studio.

 

[Luigi Mario]

Bro getting super salty.

I'm not gonna lie, I wish that a very visible defeat in this antitrust struggle might lead to Ryan being forced to step down (too much dirty laundry has been aired publicly and I can't imagine Sony's board of directors likes that, even more so if it ends up being useless), and PlayStation's decisionmaking being pulled back toward Japan at least a bit.

Tells you everything you need to know.

 

[IDKFA]

Honestly, petty shit like this puts me off gaming.

 

[Abriael_GN]

Tells you everything you need to know.

Imagine wanting the crassest, most toxic CEO in the gaming industry to go and to be replaced by someone with a bit of class and grace, like say Andrew House or Kaz Hirai.

What a terrible thing to want.

Honestly, petty shit like this puts me off gaming.

If lobbying, which has existed in American politics for centuries, puts you off gaming, your interest in gaming isn't that solid to begin with.

 

[ulantan]

Imagine wanting the crassest, most toxic CEO in the gaming industry to go and to be replaced by someone with a bit of class and grace, like say Andrew House or Kaz Hirai.

What a terrible thing to want.



If lobbying, which has existed in American politics for centuries, puts you off gaming, your interest in gaming isn't that solid to begin with.

Jim Ryan killed this man's dog.

 

[Barakov]

Microsoft has deep pockets and just lobbied the hell out of some members of congress with it.

Their argument is hollow given how intertwined they're with Microsoft.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Ask MS why they have 2 years exclusive for ARK 2?

Exclusives that can still be played on just about any platform, outside of a PlayStation or Nintendo. All you need is a game pass sub, and it’s playable on most devices. Meanwhile Sony is paying to only make FF16 available on PS5 at its launch.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

if you totally ignore the context of the situation, sure. ABK was actively seeking buyers, leaving one of Sonys biggest revenue earners and ps+ sub drivers future up in the air. If they could afford it they would’ve been in the mix to buy them 100%.

Kotick convinced the board to seek buyers to save his own hide and get the current shareholders a payout

Just because he was seeking a purchase doesn’t mean whoever is buying them is necessarily getting a good deal. The fact that MS decided to go through with such a large and risky acquisition tells you how desperate their management perceived their current market position

 

[Abriael_GN]

Jim Ryan killed this man's dog.

Nah, he's just been vomiting some of the most ludicrous bad takes in the industry since he's been CEO and before when he was at SCEE.

Remember the crap about old games or cross-play?

Imagine wanting someone who actually knows something about gaming and isn't just another suit with a big mouth at the helm of a gaming company. Crazy right?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Another battlefield of a thread.

no, no battlefield, call of duty.

 

[nial]

Nah, the answer is Allan Becker

I'm just asking, what exactly would be the metric as to point out his management as a failure? I have my own take on JS, but I would like to know yours.

 

[FoxMcChief]

no, no battlefield, call of duty.

I think you owe MS money for just typing a call of Duty. Unless you’re a subscriber, of course.

 

[Abriael_GN]

I'm just asking, what exactly would be the metric as to point out his management as a failure? I have my own take on JS, but I would like to know yours.

During his tenure, Japan Studio's output dropped pretty radically. We also saw the complete abandonment of JRPGs as a genre. JS pretty much lost its identity.

 

[ulantan]

Nah, he's just been vomiting some of the most ludicrous bad takes in the industry since he's been CEO and before when he was at SCEE.

Remember the crap about old games or cross-play?

Imagine wanting someone who actually knows something about gaming and isn't just another suit with a big mouth at the helm of a gaming company. Crazy right?

There is no CEO that is anything more than a suit. You can dislike the man for not cutting off the ps4 day one, you can not like him, for saying old game bad, you can hate him for not helping Microsoft buying buy publishers. However looking at the numbers he's really good at his job.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Yes dragged into it, it's a deal that involves MS and Activision and Sony gets called in as an additional party. You think Sony want to be going through the process of illustrating to regulators why Microsoft's aggressive anti competitive tactics are bad for them and their customers?

Stop shilling.