-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Attack on Titan (Shingeki no Kyojin) manga thread of TOTAL SPOILER PANDEMONIUM
- Thread starter Branduil
- Start date
AlimNassor
Banned
Holy fucking shit....I just had my mind blown.
What if Ymir wasn't the little girl? Maybe the little girl really is Ymir and she sacrificed herself to the titan. The curse of Ymir could be because she was only 13. All other shifters only live as long as the original sacrifice (Ymir) did.
What if Ymir wasn't the little girl? Maybe the little girl really is Ymir and she sacrificed herself to the titan. The curse of Ymir could be because she was only 13. All other shifters only live as long as the original sacrifice (Ymir) did.
With Kabaneri S2 being on the pipeline for Wit, I doubt they are going to make S3 soon. It doesn't help that the uprising arc is arguably the worst arc in the manga so far (I like it, but it's definitely very heavy on talking and making things go extremely slowly). Adapting the arc well won't be easy.
The Manga is like a town/county/state/country/world level of escalation. The uprising feels like S2 of the Wire. Not the best thing compared to the other stuff, but you appreciate it much more once you understand why it's there.
Uprising arc has some cool stuff though, I liked the aspect where there were specific anti-human soldiers and weaponry to take out the scout members. Also doesn't it have that scene with Rod Reiss trying to feed Eren to Historia and then becoming that nasty abnormal?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Decided to skip ahead of the anime and ended up finishing the whole series up to present. Disappointed, in all honesty. I enjoyed myself up until the basement reveal (maybe tailing off a little bit before that point), and then everything from that point on just made me lose interest progressively more. Definitely think SnK is an example of a good idea executed badly.
Turin Turambar
Member
Wasn't the basement reveal, like.... 7 chapters ago?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Sure, but given the basement reveal is backstory of and context to everything up until this point, that reveal being so underwhelming critically undermines much of what came before it. I also think that the Ape / Colossal / Armoured fight was... just okay, and sort of retreading past territory, so that didn't help.
RecRoulette
Member
I personally don't like the uprising arc but I wouldn't consider it a waste of time. Although people think the first half of this season went too slow, they're going to be absolutely miserable when the uprising gets adapted.
This is very accurate.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I think it was an unsatisying explanation for what Titans are and how the context of SnK was established.
For example, we're told that after Ymir Fritz's death, there was an ongoing struggle between the eight aristocratic factions who received eight of the nine titans, and they were kept under control by the royal family with the Coordinate. But that story makes no sense. We've already seen that even one of the Eight Titans can be pretty easily taken out by a middling group of ordinary 'brute' Titans. Any kind of ongoing struggle wouldn't even get off the ground, the Founding Titan has complete and total control over enormously powerful weapons that dwarf the capabilities of any of the others. So this story doesn't work.
But okay, we'll give the story some leeway and ignore this for the moment. Now consider The Great Titan War. Exactly... how did this work again? The Armoured Titan could pretty singlehandedly have destroyed more or less the entirety of the inside of the Walls if it had not been for Eren (plus other factors, but I just mean stopping one of the Eight Titans requires your own Titans). But we're told that the Marley, an oppressed peoples, somehow managed to 'take control of' seven of the Eight? How does that even work? Through what possible means could ordinary human beings with pre-Industrial era technology managed to take control of any of the Eight? The Marley would have been massacred.
But again, we'll give leeway and move on. Now we have King Fritz on this island (which isn't really an island; canonically the land possessed by humanity was 720,000 km^2 in area, so Paradis has to contain all of that, which means that Paradis is basically Australia size for this to work), and he tells the Marley not to fuck with him or he'll attack them with 'brute' Titans - and this is a credible threat, after all, he has the Coordinates. And so what the Marley do in response is... create 'brute' Titans and send them towards King Fritz? Like, think for a second how stupid that is. They're creating more of the insanely powerful weapon only their enemy can control and giving it to him. It's like America sending Russia free nuclear missiles all neatly wrapped with a nice bow on the top. There's just no good reason for the Marley to do this.
That's just in terms of the plot. All of the character motivations are just so baffling, it's not at all clear why it makes sense for any of these events to have happened the way they did. Thematically, it's just as bad. We've had 80 chapters telling us how incredibly significant the Walls are and how making it beyond them is the ultimate goal of humanity. Then... nope, lol, the Walls were never important to your freedom because you're on a prison island (fuck, it really is Australia). So suddenly, the huge emphasis that has been running through three-quarters of the story is just out of the window. Equally, we've had 80 chapters telling us how threatening even 'brute' Titans are. At the start of the series, it took teams of experienced scouts working together just to kill a few, and it was still an incredibly risky prospect. After retaking Wall Maria, though, the story goes 'and suddenly all the Titans were dead and they were at the beach hooray the end'. These incredibly intimidating enemies got Red Shirt'd to fuck, all gone.
The closest I can describe to the feeling I got from reading it was the feeling I got when I watched the original anime version of Fullmetal Alchemist. At the time, I'd never read the manga, but I could remember very clearly the tonal feel of the show suddenly and abruptly changing gear and going down a totally different route, abanding all of the early key themes. Later, I learnt this was then they'd started doing original material, and I can remember thinking: huh, that makes sense now. I got that feeling reading this - it's almost like a totally different author picked it up after, say, the defeat of Rod Reiss. I feel like I've been reading extended fanfiction since that point - not bad, per se, but just lacking in coherency and clear author intent.
I assume the King giving up on the war and the Marley gaining controls of most of the powered Titans is the same event: basically them growing a distate for war and surrendering
besides, the King could have used his power and manipulated the memories of the other Titans to force him on the surrendering terms, with only his family and maybe the Ackerman being the wiser. do the King powers work on non Eldians?
besides, the King could have used his power and manipulated the memories of the other Titans to force him on the surrendering terms, with only his family and maybe the Ackerman being the wiser. do the King powers work on non Eldians?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
What did they think the Marley would use them for after surrender? Bumper size life drawing?
dunno
it's possible the initial surrender terms were more amicable, and only after a few years the Marleys went full racist
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I mean sure. But if so, that means there is a significant part of the backstory missing that would fundamentally change how it is perceived, which means the basement, something we've been building towards since the first chapter, was a fakeout and has barely moved the story forward due to lack of critical information. From a narrative perspective, that's just frustrating.
Regardless of what actually happened, Grisha was a hardcore Eldian Restorationist, so it was probably going to be a pretty biased and incomplete account either way.
It definitely gave out all the key facts though. How is a complete and thorough description of the world, recent and ancient history, and the state of warring factions not "critical information" to a mind-wiped society that has been basically living in a figurative cave for over a hundred years?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Because the information doesn't make sense. If it is a true picture of the world, then almost all of the historical characters we know about are pants-on-head stupid. If it isn't a true picture of the world, then we may not have moved forward at all - which bits are true? which aren't? Who knows. There's never really been anything from before this point to corroborate it or deny it. As a backstory, it comes entirely out of the blue.
the big reveal of the basement is that there is a full civilization outside the island
the detail of whether the King left his Titan Peeps in good terms or if they betrayed him is largely irrelevant. hell, we could easily never get an answer to this and it wouldn't matter that much
the detail of whether the King left his Titan Peeps in good terms or if they betrayed him is largely irrelevant. hell, we could easily never get an answer to this and it wouldn't matter that much
You remember correctly.
RecRoulette
Member
Yeah that's a pretty big spoiler for an arc that won't be covered this season.
Edit: Apparently Levi's last name was already mentioned in an OVA? Weird.
It is and I wish I could just nuke the past two pages. The poster got called out on that, THEN PROCEEDED TO SPOIL PEOPLE AGAIN CLAIMING IT WAS FROM THE OVA (It's not!)
Yeah, can't we just ask a mod to take a look at it?
RecRoulette
Member
I was going to say, it would've been really weird for them to reveal that plot point in that OVA considering it's one of the bigger reveals later on.
Wasn't there a mod that posted in there earlier telling everyone to clean their shit up? Maybe PM them
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
To be fair (and I know I've been on about this already) but Marley dumping titans on Paradis really makes no sense.
It's true it's weird, but at the same time if it weren't for those titans, breaking down the gates at the beginning of the series wouldn't have had any effect. But they somehow had to know that the royal family wouldn't use their power to prevent the titans from attacking their subjects.
I dunno, I think it does a few things effectively.
1) It helps to curb the remaining power of the Eldian civilization. Marley knows a couple titan powers exist within the walls(along with the remaining Eldian 'society'). If you smother their civilization with predators you are effectively keeping them contained and on edge with a major threat enclosing them.
2) It helps to dispose of exiles while avoiding adding strength to the enemy. If they just dumped Eldian exiles on Paradis in human form it could add to the enemy's strength of numbers + introduce information about the outside world and Marley to the enemy.
3) In the end it pits Eldians vs. Eldians so it's a great way to keep them busy while you're maintaining dominance and amassing technology and strength to your own civilization.
theCalamity
Member
This is funny because everyone there can turn into titans.
Seeing the Soldier vs. Warrior come up again just made me realize that Reiner, Bertholdt, Annie, and all of the rest were basically brainwashed with the allure of being better than the rest of the Eldians. They've been taught that Eldians are demons and trash since they were children. Then they are forced to infiltrate the walls and it turns out that these Eldians aren't so bad. Some of them are shit, but some of them are genuinely good. Some end up being friends. I like the conflict within Reiner. He's almost there. But conditioning reverts him back into the Warrior.
Hellwarden
Member
Goddamn I feel sorry for Reiner.
Turin Turambar
Member
Goddamn I feel sorry for Reiner.
I hated him because the author had saved him ass a few too many times (har har, armor plot titan) but I dig the Punished adult Reiner, haunted by his past and by PSTD.
Yeah, the fake-out w/ the Armor Titan was completely unnecessary and dumb.
Krista is totally going to end up eating Reiner (or his successor) though.
The Omega Man
Member
Krista is no going to eat anybody, she won't be a Titan, she has decided that royal blood circle ends with her she chose her own destiny.
Monochromaticx
Member
i bet connie will be the armored titan
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
You know I was looking at this in a completely different way, but those are some great points which actually clarify a lot. Thank you
theCalamity
Member
Does he want that death sentence? Armin has 9 years left and Eren has what, 4? It'd be a hard decision to make.
The Omega Man
Member
I don't think they'll die, either the Manga ends before that or they will find a way to cancel their expiration dates, the Ackerman's blood might be the key.
I reread the whole manga this weekend, after the Reiner/Berthold reveal, and I'm really glad I did. Reading it weekly, I forgot a lot of important details or names and I didn't understand everything correctly. When I started reading it, the first few arcs seemed like a mess but I really appreciate their structure. Also, the foreshadowing was excellent. There are a ton of clues since the very start, for all of the three shifters, but they're likable.
Anyway, the whole arc with the military police will be a very interesting adaption. It feels really long and the payoff isn't that great, but it has a lot of critical moments for the series. I kind of hope it won't be a season on its own and they'll adapt the next arc too, ending with the basement's door opening, but I'm probably asking too much.
Anyway, the whole arc with the military police will be a very interesting adaption. It feels really long and the payoff isn't that great, but it has a lot of critical moments for the series. I kind of hope it won't be a season on its own and they'll adapt the next arc too, ending with the basement's door opening, but I'm probably asking too much.
You know I was looking at this in a completely different way, but those are some great points which actually clarify a lot. Thank you
Sure! However isn't there a huge chance for backfire if someone within the walls figured out how to use the Founding's ability(Coordinate)? Wouldn't they be able to control the army of exile titans Marley's built up over the years? I guess it could be stupid if you think about it, but maybe there's something I'm missing.
Tbh I thought the Utgarde Keep stuff was going to take over 3-4 episodes to get through but they did it in about 2. If done right and trimmed up they could gloss through a lot of the Uprising stuff in a few episodes. It's not like there haven't been blocks of episodes before that didn't focus on much titan stuff(the episodes between Trost->Female Titan arcs where the court trial takes place had very little action but some important information).
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
No, it does not. As far as the Marley are aware, the Fritz King has the power to control the Titans. You're not smothering their civilization with predators, you're giving their civilization weapons. The only way it helps smother their civilization is if the Fritz King (and his descendants) don't want to use those Titans, in which case they are already smothering their own civilization and the Marleys were pointless either way.
No, it adds strength to the enemy, by giving a royal family who are the sole lineage able to control Titans more Titans. If they wanted to dispose of Eldians, they could just kill them.
No, it's irrelevant. If the Fritz King (or his descendants) wanted to attack, he could utterly destroy Marley. If he doesn't want to attack, then there's no other Eldians to fight anyway. So it's not Eldians vs. Eldians - one side is just utterly uninterested in the attack.
None of these are good explanations for the Marley's actions, or the Fritz King's (or his descendants') actions, or anyone's actions! The whole explanation makes no sense.
Monochromaticx
Member
if they will be in a full blown war with the main land then his best choice is to get the titan power. if he doesn't he might not survive the war
Maybe make it 24 episodes and rush through the military arc in 12 episodes and have the Reclaim Maria arc be the last 12. Maybe even go all the way to the timeskip.
The Omega Man
Member
While I am "OK" with the explanations given so far, I was hoping that the world outside the walls was indeed devoid of humans let alone human civilization and that the Beast Titan was one of original titans or creators of titans some sort of new "sentient" Titan thus why he was able to speak, why can this Titan speak so eloquently while the others shifters can't?
I even thought for a while that the shifter's true form were their Titan form and their human forms were fake.
If there is a a thriving human world as a global scale why hasn't any plane/zeppelin/flying device from another nation come across Paradis island or flown over the cities inside the wall? At that point in time / technology development were they are, it should have already happened or about to happen since the first manned airplanes were conceived around that time.
I even thought for a while that the shifter's true form were their Titan form and their human forms were fake.
If there is a a thriving human world as a global scale why hasn't any plane/zeppelin/flying device from another nation come across Paradis island or flown over the cities inside the wall? At that point in time / technology development were they are, it should have already happened or about to happen since the first manned airplanes were conceived around that time.
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
This is exactly what had me confused initially!
Surely Marley have assisted the king in nullifying any potential invasion from them as he could turn all of the titans they've dumped against them...?
They do ensure the Eldians remain confined to the walls but this again works in the kings favour.
Can't wait to delve a bit deeper into his backstory and motivations as this all seems like part of a bigger, as yet unexplained, whole.
well to be fair, the backfiring is happening right now. tho I am not sure Eren will control a giant army of titans
but the thing is, if the guy who can control all the titans decides he has had enough fighting and retires to Madagascar asking to be left alone...you are gonna let him go, particularly if he has been kicking you ass for centuries
the thing I never got...are the walls full of actual Titans, or are those just shells a previous Colossal Titan left
e: wiki says they are actual titans
Yeah pretty sure they are real titans. Remember how crazy the pastor got when there was danger of sunlight hitting that revealed one.
Also in the second season's ending sequence you can see what looks like an army of Colossus titans lining up in wall formation.
Also there's this from the manga:
Yeah pretty sure they are real titans. Remember how crazy the pastor got when there was danger of sunlight hitting that revealed one.
Also in the second season's ending sequence you can see what looks like an army of Colossus titans lining up in wall formation.
Also there's this from the manga:
Wouldn't this mean there are potentially hundreds to thousands of shifters inside the walls?
We haven't seen a single Titan this big besides the colossal titan, not to mention using the ability to petrify themselves.
I think it's implied that they are mindless due to the paranoia of letting sunlight hit them. Probably need orders from the Founding Titan. As for why they are much larger than the average titan, I dont think that's been revealed yet. I wonder if it has anything to do with the Colossal Titan seeing as how it's been revealed that the Beast Titan can create mindless titans with special traits.
edit: ^ maybe they are portrayed as citizens/intelligent people in that illustration is because it's intended to express that the mindless giants who inhabit the walls were once citizens who sacrificed their lives/consciousness for their people/society.. which would be why the walls are worshiped as a religion
Monochromaticx
Member
yeah that part doesnt make sense. how can be there so many colossal sized titans ?