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Better Call Saul S2 |OT| The Truth Is Just A Point Of View - Mondays 10/9c
- Thread starter TheOddOne
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I feel like the money isn't even part of the equation. He knows he fucked up by not dealing with Tuco permanently. My guess is Tuco's gonna get out and kidnap his family (or Tio has someone do it), and that is what will finally convince Mike "no more half measures".
I can definitely see that. I don't remember, do we know anything about the mom during Breaking Bad?
Well, the mom (Stacey) is the widow of Mike's son. His son was a cop in Philly and died on the job. It's possible that we see Stacey in one episode of Breaking Bad (episode 3-13, "Full Measures"), although she's played by a different actress and it's only for a second.
Also, looking back, it's really weird that Kaylee appears to be about the same age in both shows (again, different actresses).
Premium Quality
Member
Loved the episode and especially the ending.
Can I ask one favor from GAF? Could you guys please refer to Hector by that name and not "Tio"? "Tio" means "Uncle" in Spanish.
Can I ask one favor from GAF? Could you guys please refer to Hector by that name and not "Tio"? "Tio" means "Uncle" in Spanish.
smh at people ITT still defending Chuck
If you honestly believe the story about his dad and take it face value and that Chuck didn't leave out ANY details I don't even know what to say
The whole beginning sequence of the episode was showing how petty of a motherfucker Chuck is, he hates people finding Jimmy charming, he hates people liking Jimmy, Jimmy NEEDS to be his fucked up brother. The look on his face after his wife didn't laugh at his shitty joke says it all.
If you honestly believe the story about his dad and take it face value and that Chuck didn't leave out ANY details I don't even know what to say
The whole beginning sequence of the episode was showing how petty of a motherfucker Chuck is, he hates people finding Jimmy charming, he hates people liking Jimmy, Jimmy NEEDS to be his fucked up brother. The look on his face after his wife didn't laugh at his shitty joke says it all.
8BitsAtATime
Member
I'm Mexican and it doesn't bother me. Plus he is the uncle of Tuco
Premium Quality
Member
Yeah, but he's not GAF's uncle.
HighResTomato
Member
Really didn't like this episodes, everything just moves so slow in this show. Maybe it's because we already know what it will ultimately lead to. Hope they don't renew the show for too many seasons.
Beer Monkey
Member
Hector looks vital. I don't think it is age alone that put him in the wheelchair in just six years...
Edit: oh,yeah, he had a stroke. But still...six years?
Edit: oh,yeah, he had a stroke. But still...six years?
Leona Lewis
Banned
Damn, Uncle Tio is such a scary motherfucker.
Amazing, underappreciated character acting all over the place on this show.
When he pulled up his pants right?
Dominican Power
Member
I feel so fucking bad for Kim. She's excellent at her job and Howard just crushes her after she brings in a big client for the firm.
I love the slow burn of this show. Public defenders have to be the most miserable people ever.
I love the slow burn of this show. Public defenders have to be the most miserable people ever.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
So a mere $5000 to face a firearms charge and help to get your opponent out of jail is essentially "accept this or you're in deep shit", yes?
- TVLine: Better Call Saul: Which Breaking Bad Character Paid Mike a Visit?
- THR: 'Breaking Bad' Favorite Talks 'Better Call Saul' Return: "I Hope They Keep Me Going for Awhile".
- EW: Better Call Saul postmortem: Breaking Bad villain on his surprising return.
- Vulture: Mark Margolis on Tios Better Call Saul Return and That Inescapable Call Bell.
- Collider: Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould Drop the Needle on the Better Call Saul Soundtrack.
- Sepinwall: Review: 'Better Call Saul' keeps weaving in and out of 'Breaking Bad' territory.
- A|V Club Review: Kim Wexler gets her star turn on a devastating Better Call Saul.
- Vulture: Better Call Saul Recap: Say Uncle.
- THR: 'Breaking Bad' Favorite Talks 'Better Call Saul' Return: "I Hope They Keep Me Going for Awhile".
- EW: Better Call Saul postmortem: Breaking Bad villain on his surprising return.
- Vulture: Mark Margolis on Tios Better Call Saul Return and That Inescapable Call Bell.
- Collider: Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould Drop the Needle on the Better Call Saul Soundtrack.
- Sepinwall: Review: 'Better Call Saul' keeps weaving in and out of 'Breaking Bad' territory.
- A|V Club Review: Kim Wexler gets her star turn on a devastating Better Call Saul.
- Vulture: Better Call Saul Recap: Say Uncle.
So if Mike takes the deal he'd end up getting fired, right? A court house (is that where he works at?)probably doesn't want someone with a record.
It sounded like some cooking the books type shit. I can't seem to remember Jimmy fucking over Chuck in season 1 or 2 so far so I thought he'd steal from his own father.
It sounded like some cooking the books type shit. I can't seem to remember Jimmy fucking over Chuck in season 1 or 2 so far so I thought he'd steal from his own father.
I might be mistaken (I probably am) but I felt like the show has always made a point of making the Jimmy character scam only what could be easily identified as "bad" people in the show, Robin Hood style. Well, apart from the giving back to the poor part.
So the stealing from dad story that Chuck gave Kim is a bit hard to believe considering how much of a genuinely nice person he painted him to be.
But who knows right...
So the stealing from dad story that Chuck gave Kim is a bit hard to believe considering how much of a genuinely nice person he painted him to be.
But who knows right...
8BitsAtATime
Member
I want to believe that the father gave Jimmy the money so he could go to that online Law School. He didnt say anything to protect Chuck's feeling because he so more potential in Jimmy.
The dinner scene showed how charismatic Jimmy was and how scared Chuck was of him. Chuck is just jealous and wants him to fail.
______________________________________________
I'm sitting here thinking about how I want the series to end. I want a it to cut to a future Saul in black and white and for him to see Jesse and Jesse saying Walt is alive and in jail and needs your help or for him to see Kim....while slowly everything comes in to color. All I really want is some color and life to come back to him because those future scenes are heartbreaking....
Langdon Alger
Banned
You're probably right, but maybe the reason Chuck hates people liking Jimmy so much is because Jimmy did steal that money from his dad and did a bunch of other messed up stuff as well.
Didn't Mike already explain the story of "No more half measures" to Walter in BB? The drunken wife beater he let off, then finds out later he kills her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il87uwkcyyI
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
Yeah Tio knew Tuco was in the wrong. Tio is just trying to make a smooth deal so nothing else can happen. He knew who Mike was so chances are he knows where his family is too.
Breaking Bad was just as slow. It was a really slow burn the first few seasons.
Why would you say that? Why not just stop watching? Why would you wish it be ruined for people who do like it? Fucking hell.
This episode was fantastic. I'm loving the slow build. It's a beautiful show.
MetalGearZed
Member
I feel like if Mike just sniped him, Hector would have never found out who he was. Tuco didn't even know who Mike was until they met at the restaurant. Only Nacho knew him. I'm guessing Hector only found out about Mike after the assault charges.
blazenumb1
Member
I think there are things that Chuck is purposely leaving out of that story to influence Kim on his head side. We all know Jimmy is no white knight but if Chuck would get the stick out of his ass and actually try to help him succeed and look out for him, I don't think he would ever have become Saul(or at least to the extent he is in BB). Chuck is to bothered by the fact that Jimmy didn't work as hard as he did in life to get where he is at, that he never see's the person his brother could become if he helped him.
Maybe I'm wrong and/or alone in this thought but I think Chuck is such a huge reason that Jimmy becomes Saul.
DeviantBoi
Member
I love waking up early on Tuesdays to catch this on Netflix before getting ready for work.
Leaves me all amped up!
That final scene!
Leaves me all amped up!
That final scene!
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Nobody responded to this but, um, holy shit I hadn't considered this either. What if she breaks bad and is the one who finally pulls Jimmy completely under? However ...
My operating assumption is that Jimmy gets pulled into some fallout from one of Mike's adventures, like defending one of the Salamancas or something. He balks, they know he loves Kim, they kidnap and kill her. Hello Saul Goodman.
P.H. Perinax
Neo Member
The thing is, I don't think Chuck was lying about the story of their father. He may have been duplicitous as fuck in the first season of the show, and he really is jealous of Jimmy's ease with people, but he hasn't outright lied to someones face. It was also shown that he has given Jimmy multiple chances in the past, and while he could have called Jimmy every name in the book to Kim when he had nothing holding him back, he still said Jimmy wasn't a bad person at heart.
I think this is another case where the actions of the older seasons are blinding us to the very real flaws in the character of the protagonist. (Walter White part II) I was all on Jimmy's side in season one (fuck Chuck and all that). But now we are seeing more of Jimmy's dark side this season. I mean Jimmy was told to his face that his actions reflected on those who vouched for him, and he did what he wanted to anyway. He did lie to Kim's face about the tv ad. He faked evidence to get someone we knew to be a drug dealer off the hook. I'm just wondering how far Jimmy is going to go before we see him for what he is. I'm just shocked at how Gilligan and crew are good at making us feel for bad people, there is really an art to it.
I think this is another case where the actions of the older seasons are blinding us to the very real flaws in the character of the protagonist. (Walter White part II) I was all on Jimmy's side in season one (fuck Chuck and all that). But now we are seeing more of Jimmy's dark side this season. I mean Jimmy was told to his face that his actions reflected on those who vouched for him, and he did what he wanted to anyway. He did lie to Kim's face about the tv ad. He faked evidence to get someone we knew to be a drug dealer off the hook. I'm just wondering how far Jimmy is going to go before we see him for what he is. I'm just shocked at how Gilligan and crew are good at making us feel for bad people, there is really an art to it.
Like I said last night, it's probably a true story in most ways. But there's a reason he's telling her that story right now, in that way. He's trying to build camaraderie with her so she swings to his "side." I wouldn't think that so strongly were it not for the way he so quickly switches off at the end of the story to "More coffee?" all happy like. And then he throws the cherry on top as he's walking out, all strategic like, giving her props for the deal and saying he'll talk to Howard. It just all reeked of Chuck building a false friendship with Kim to turn her further against Jimmy.
Definitely don't think you're wrong. I think it's a chicken/egg scenario, a closed loop whereby Jimmy's actions cause Chuck to distrust him which causes Jimmy to do dumb shit which causes Chuck to distrust him which causes Jimmy to....and so on. It's like their individual insecurities cause each other to self sabotage as it relates to the other, which further reinforces their insecurities and makes it impossible to break out of the cycle.
GrooveCommand
Member
I also got the impression that Chuck was jealous of Jimmy, particularly during the dinner scene when they started making jokes.
TimeEffect
Member
Oh no is this a continuity error?
What? What's not to believe? Sounds like Chuck is the older brother who had his head on very straight and you cant just throw away his story with his dad as if he was maliciously lying.
Jimmy takes money from his father, so much so over so much time, despite the fact that his hard working father is a mess for it. Jimmy cries after his dad dies, because Jimmy is not a bad person, he just cant help himself from being so destructive.
It's not hard to see why Chuck resents Jimmy. Anyone who has had parents like that would hate that one rebellious sibling who shatters their parents like that
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I guess I don't see why it can't be both.
There's no question Jimmy is flawed from the first moment we see him. He's shady, underhanded, manipulative and a literal con man.
The question isn't whether Jimmy is inherently good -- we are shown numerous times that he actually does have a good heart whether it's how he cares for his brother or Kim or old people -- the question is whether Chuck's obvious jealousy (righteous, self-righteous, or otherwise) is what pushes Jimmy into full-time ambulance chasing shenanigans.
There's no question Jimmy is flawed from the first moment we see him. He's shady, underhanded, manipulative and a literal con man.
The question isn't whether Jimmy is inherently good -- we are shown numerous times that he actually does have a good heart whether it's how he cares for his brother or Kim or old people -- the question is whether Chuck's obvious jealousy (righteous, self-righteous, or otherwise) is what pushes Jimmy into full-time ambulance chasing shenanigans.
The cold open to me seemed to set up a thread of trying to lead Chuck down a path of further resistance. The scene where he's trying to butter Kim up definitely makes it feel like Jimmy's character arc has been at a standstill all along but then I remember back to the cold open and how it deliberately seemed to paint Chuck as someone who doesn't like having his influence usurped even if it's a matter of jokes at a dinner table - and at the ending of the episode he seems to mirror that impression when he's trying to flip the tables and be the more impressionable brother. There is no way that this episode's cold open was tacked on just for the sake of convenience. Chuck is letting his McGill shine through here; he's taking advantage of the situation and turning Kim against Jimmy while simultaneously getting on her good side by exploiting Howard being a pig fucker after all. To be honest I have to wonder whether Howard is going to lose some respect for Chuck once it becomes clear how rather opportunistic he is.
The biggest twist the show could present at this point is showing that at some point Chuck had the completely wrong picture about Jimmy since we've gone a full year (and really 90% of Breaking Bad) already knowing that Chuck is "right", which if it's a story they want to go on with for more seasons, there has to be a bigger twist to it. Even though he was a con man during the his nightly bar escapades the incredibly ambiguous story that Chuck tells really only feels like half of the whole story. Something set him off in spite of all his positive nature and you only need to look at how absolutely dedicated he was at getting a new job and working with his brother (to the point that he ditched his best friend). As much as he is prone to shortcuts I think that it's starting to be somewhat clear that his well intentions are being mired by circumstance.
Who knows, still seems to me like Jimmy is a monster, but he's one of Chuck's creation.
Promo spoilers:
The biggest twist the show could present at this point is showing that at some point Chuck had the completely wrong picture about Jimmy since we've gone a full year (and really 90% of Breaking Bad) already knowing that Chuck is "right", which if it's a story they want to go on with for more seasons, there has to be a bigger twist to it. Even though he was a con man during the his nightly bar escapades the incredibly ambiguous story that Chuck tells really only feels like half of the whole story. Something set him off in spite of all his positive nature and you only need to look at how absolutely dedicated he was at getting a new job and working with his brother (to the point that he ditched his best friend). As much as he is prone to shortcuts I think that it's starting to be somewhat clear that his well intentions are being mired by circumstance.
Who knows, still seems to me like Jimmy is a monster, but he's one of Chuck's creation.
Promo spoilers:
Jimmy in his old office? Something about it tells me that this is the coming episode where he quits his job - mostly because after his admission I don't see him getting fired as a moment of clarity.
No, we covered this during season 1. The ages of the actresses playing the part (at the time of shooting) are more or less correct, or at least their is an appreciable gap in their ages. Something like 8 year old in Better Call Saul and 12 year old in Breaking Bad. It's plausible enough. Here they are side by side, Better Call Saul on the left and Breaking Bad on the right:
One on the right is clearly an older child.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
that's not an error, that's a reality of working with children on TV shows.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
The cold open was entirely to demonstrate two conflicting theories the show WANTS you to have:
1. chuck is unreasonably jealous of his brother and doesn't understand his charisma;
vs.
2. only chuck can see through jimmy's con.
you're SUPPOSED to have this dissonance right now, that's completely intentional.
Both of these are furthered with the Chuck/Kim scene. You're supposed to question whether Chuck just knows Jimmy better than anyone or whether he'll do anything to try and undo his charisma. You're not supposed to know what he's doing because the show wants you to consider both.
1. chuck is unreasonably jealous of his brother and doesn't understand his charisma;
vs.
2. only chuck can see through jimmy's con.
you're SUPPOSED to have this dissonance right now, that's completely intentional.
Both of these are furthered with the Chuck/Kim scene. You're supposed to question whether Chuck just knows Jimmy better than anyone or whether he'll do anything to try and undo his charisma. You're not supposed to know what he's doing because the show wants you to consider both.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I always thought the point they were trying to get across, or at least one of the major points was that Chuck just genuinely dislikes seeing Jimmy successful at ANYTHING. Probably due to some deep rooted hatred that he doesn't deserve anything which is terrible for a brother I guess.
But the dinner with his girl was the perfect example. He couldn't even stand to see Jimmy successful in that social setting. He even tried emulating him in the bed scene afterward and it fell flat and then you had that look of utter resentment.
It's a two way street. Jimmy definitely does shit he shouldn't but I don't think he does it for no reason. He feels that the world works against him and he usually does things (for now) with his heart in the right place.
But the dinner with his girl was the perfect example. He couldn't even stand to see Jimmy successful in that social setting. He even tried emulating him in the bed scene afterward and it fell flat and then you had that look of utter resentment.
It's a two way street. Jimmy definitely does shit he shouldn't but I don't think he does it for no reason. He feels that the world works against him and he usually does things (for now) with his heart in the right place.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
obviously the cold open also establishes an early, easy relationship between Rebecca and Jimmy. her current absence and signature on the music book on Chuck's piano (a concerto for two, btw) is all the more intriguing -- does she die (perhaps through electric shock?), causing Chuck to go crazy? does she leave him? does his jealousy of jimmy drive her away? We don't know!
HighResTomato
Member
Breaking Bad had a good amount of seasons, which I hope they replicate. But seeing as how we are in the second season of this show and he still isn't Saul I'm worried that they will drag it out too long.
I don't wish to ruin it for you, but I also don't want them making the show any longer than it needs to be.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
what do you want to see after he turns? A weekly procedural? This long, slow turn is the entire point of the show. He was Saul all along. We might not see him change his name until the last episode of the last season of the show. I'd get used to it.
Something I kinda realized just now as well, you just need to look at how Chuck handled that coffee exchange to see how narcissistic he is. As much as he did indeed "work his ass off" to get to where he is, he seems perfectly content with having people do things for him, especially with how picky he is. We know his condition is self imposed trauma, and just about everyone (including Kim) know it's not actually real - everyone is just too nice to admit it, and enable him.
Whether Chuck realizes it or not; even subconsciously he's being a dick.
Whether Chuck realizes it or not; even subconsciously he's being a dick.
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