tearsintherain
Member
There will not be a new episode of Black Sails this sunday, or ever again. Damn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5SB30suBJY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5SB30suBJY
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Black Sails S4 |OT| The End Is About To Begin - Sundays 9/8c on Starz
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
Finally finished the season on a binge, highly enjoyable and damn that is a good looking show.
I have to say this though because I say it for every season: fuck Max. When she was giving lines about how much she's sacrificed I was like "yeah run those by me again because you pretty much had
so fuck off."
I have to say this though because I say it for every season: fuck Max. When she was giving lines about how much she's sacrificed I was like "yeah run those by me again because you pretty much had
shit handed to you every season and even your final scene someone just walks to you and gives ultimate riches and power
Finally had the time (and mood) to watch el grande finale last night. I shed a tear at the end, because this was the last episode of Black Sails ever (never that beautiful intro on sunday evening again), but also because the show got a farewell it deserved. It wasn't cancelled and it wasn't continued for eight season until it became a shitshow after the fourth season, *cough*gameofthrones*cough*. They chose their story and where to end it and it was an amazing ride.
But now I really want a Treasure Island in a couple of years with what's left of the crew. And I want to see Billy die painfully.
But now I really want a Treasure Island in a couple of years with what's left of the crew. And I want to see Billy die painfully.
hobblygobbly
Member
Great finale... now I'd also love to see a Rackham's adventures spin-off show.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Saved the last 6 eps to binge yesterday because watching week-to-week was torture. Mannnnnnnnn, what a season. The entire Skeleton island section toward the end was just WOW. The most well realized location of the 4 seasons. Top notch atmosphere and visuals. I'm satisfied with the ending and the way it steers the narrative towards a version of Treasure Island, particularly with the speech Flint gave Silver about him looking back and wishing he made a different choice.
Ughhhhh I'm gonna miss this show so much. Would love to see more adventures with Rackham/Bonny/Read and a Treasure Island adaption done by this crew.
Ughhhhh I'm gonna miss this show so much. Would love to see more adventures with Rackham/Bonny/Read and a Treasure Island adaption done by this crew.
Still not sure how I liked the ending, I do feel like it should have been stronger, but I also really liked the ending too. I really was expecting a sort of, finish building your legacy upon me finish. Which would complete the transformation to LJS. And wrap up all the lines till Treasure Island.
Basically, I felt like it was a weak finish for Silver. Largely, because the birth of Silver from the books has to be the death of Flint. The ambiguous ending hurt it. It also hurt the previous episode even more and betrayed what it was going for.
Basically, I felt like it was a weak finish for Silver. Largely, because the birth of Silver from the books has to be the death of Flint. The ambiguous ending hurt it. It also hurt the previous episode even more and betrayed what it was going for.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Honestly I don't know.
Was in a facebook conversation that came up on their page, and all of the sudden I got a PM asking for my mailing information from BlackSails
rocketskates
Member
You lucky SOB
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
rocketskates
Member
That shirt looks bad ass
AngmarsKing701
Member
That is soooooo awesome!!!
Edit - made me go look at Amazon for merchandise and found this t-shirt, which lists it as Show Time t-shirt.
Luke Arnold joined Easy Allies for a chat about Black Sails
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkHHVLWouJg
Thought I'd post it here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkHHVLWouJg
Thought I'd post it here
Aside from being gang raped by a pirate crew for an entire season...
Awesome, that was a great talk. I'm also surprised Luke is a Patreon of Easy Allies, didn't expect that haha.
I'm looking into the show now since they introduce him properly. Had no idea who he was during the Group Stream and they made no mention.
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
I just caught up, so sad it's gone but what a perfect way to end it. The whole season was just incredible, as was the series. An absolute must watch for everyone.
rocketskates
Member
That's fucking awesome
CecilRousso
Member
Just watched the last episode.
And regarding:
And regarding:
Flint. I think the "dream sequence" showed the truth. It makes it closer to the Treasure Island story, and makes everything regarding Thomas throughout the seasons serve a purpose. To just kill him on that island, that would be too easy and too cheap.
Yabberwocky
Member
Big ol' block spoiler text for Black Sails GAF. It took me awhile to get my thoughts together re: the finale, there is a lot to talk about. What an amazing ride it has been, though. It's still surreal that there won't be any more episodes. If we one day do get Treasure Island, due to the characters that are involved in TI, there will only be two or three familiar faces. Man, that hurts. Spoilers for both Black Sails and Treasure Island below:
Oh, Black Sails. There have definitely been shows that have neater edges than you, but I don't think I've ever been so captivated in a television series before. I watched in absolute awe at the layers upon layers that were revealed from within, and the unprecedented density in the narrative, the parallels, and the characters. The amount of respect that the creators had for its viewership was incredible, let alone for blockbuster action adventure drama! What an incredible legacy to leave, too, with a complete deconstruction of how women, men and women of color, and queer people are treated and remembered by history. Considering the respectful treatment and depth of Madi, Flint, Eleanor, Max, and Anne, other period dramas don't have an excuse for not telling these stories, let alone modern day dramas! Good job, Black Sails. (My awe and amazement to anyone who reads all of the above, you deserve your own cache of gems.)
On the assumption we take the ending at face value, and we are to use Black Sails as a set-up for Treasure Island, I am surprised to see responses around the place that Black Sails' ending is a happy one. It's a temporary cathartic respite at best, alongside being tragic and bittersweet. We know come TI, Flint was entirely correct in his warnings to Silver. Madi won't be enough, and Silver will regret the choices he's made. Silver will also get a parrot and name it Captain Flint - I'll leave it up to someone else to psychoanalyse! Silver also has to live with the fact he betrayed the two people he cared for the most, though Madi was the priority. Both Madi and Flint had their agency taken away from them by the person they trusted the most. For Madi, there will always be a divide between her and Silver, even though they stay together. Flint optimistically could have many years with Thomas, but if Flint's fate aligns with his pre-TI one, he will end up drinking himself to death after Thomas has died. Silver's removal of agency and choice is impossibly crueller for Madi, as she has the legacy and suffering of her people on her shoulders that she will have to carry with her. The choice made by Silver is also quite cruel for Flint, considering Silver has not only taken away his agency, but sent him to be imprisoned. To continue the Rogers/Flint parallels that the series has run with, I'm assuming Flint's at least imprisoned for a time, like Rogers. Like with political revolutionary the could have been Thomas, Flint losing his war and ending up at the plantation is such an anti-climatic and wasteful ending to such a fascinating and vibrant man. (I love the bittersweet nature of it all, mind you.) McGraw, who's brilliance and intelligence would have turned him into an unparalleled Admiral someday, and for Flint, whose drive and tactical ingenuity could have literally set the world ablaze. Instead of Flint being bested in a glorious swashbuckling fight or in an all out war, Flint was sent away into obscurity via the very same man that Flint had unwittingly and finally let slither into his head. What's worse, come pre-TI, Flint will have nothing. No war, no legacy, no Thomas, no Silver, nothing to fight for or against - just the rum. Inevitably, Flint's painted into the very monster he feared he'd be. What an added tragedy for Miranda when Thomas was so close to them in Savannah all along. All that pain, all that misery, all that regret tormenting Miranda and Flint on Nassau... and Thomas had only been a few days/weeks away from them for years. If Peter Ashe had been an honest man, a better man, Miranda wouldn't have died - and Black Sails would have ended at the S2 finale, ha.
Whilst Jack and Anne (now with Mary Read) seemingly had the cheeriest end for the finale itself, if Black Sails continues with its historical links, well, it's quite tragic for all involved. Max, via Governor Featherstone and Idelle, is ruling Nassau, but one day Governor Rogers may return to his rightful place as Governor after the tales of A General History of the Pyrates turns him into a bit of a hero. Billy ended up trapped on the very island he lead everyone to, though ultimately must leave in some form in order to meet Jim Hawkins. Taken at face value, I love the story beats of Black Sails' finale, though not necessarily the execution of all of it. After the horrors and heartbreak we've suffered over the four seasons, the finale is a temporary moment of respite. It is respite that saves us from the horrors and heartbreak that is yet to come. It lets us fill in the blanks for the fates of all of the characters, both historical and fictional alike, whilst still giving the viewer freedom to give their own take on what could have occurred between Black Sails and Treasure Island. Until reading the creator interviews, I hadn't realized how much they'd wanted to balance historical moments whilst bringing Black Sails in throwing distance for Treasure Island. I'd originally thought they were going to make the TI connections a lot looser, and I feel like they walked that tightrope very well. I was skimming Treasure Island post finale, and I was surprised how effective the connective tissue had been. The legend of Captain Flint in Treasure Island immediately evoked the complete force of nature that was our Captain Flint, but in a twist, I now know the tragedy that had lead to the creation of such a man, and the scenario that may have lead to his eventual fate. I now also know know the depth of the betrayal that led to Billy Bones' absolute destruction and bitterness, and his fear of Long John Silver - though I'm quite curious how long Billy stayed on Skeleton Island pre-Treasure Island! Of course, we now know the exact circumstances that lead to the creation and legacy of Long John Silver.
I really like in post-finale interviews how the creators purposefully continued the line between Treasure Island and historical reality with Flint's fate. The 'reform minded man' we met was basically James Oglethorpe, founder of the Georgia Colony. Oglethorpe was based on a real man who chaired a Parliamentary committee on prison reform in England, though unlike Thomas, his petitions went through and he was successful. The 'non sibi sed aliis'/'not for themselves, but for others' on the gate of the estate of Oglethorpe's plantation is the colonial seal of the State of Georgia. It's tragic and fitting that the men at the plantation are not there by choice for themselves, but because and for others. Thomas being in Savannah is one of the more logical plot points on the show, considering everything that went down with securing the Urca gold, Abigail Ashe on Nassau, the series of improbable events that saw the Walrus crew to Maroon island, etc. A side effect of Thomas' return suddenly gives a different perspective on both Lord Hamilton and Peter Ashe. Did both of them feel guilt over the severity of Thomas' punishment and treatment? Did Peter Ashe bring Thomas to Savannah before or after Flint killed Lord Hamilton?
I can kinda objectively appreciate the thematic open ending twist on Flint and Silver, and I understand how the episode is 100% intended to be read either way and left up to the viewer's discretion. Unfortunately, I don't really think offering the choice of an ambiguous outcome does a great service to the final episode itself, especially in terms of what it did to characters and pacing. It makes the episode feel a bit cleaved out and uneven, no matter which ending the viewer prefers. For me, the smoothest reading of the episode is with a living Flint getting a symbolic close from Silver. In terms of just the pure text of Black Sails, a dead Flint undoes the show's parallels and foreshadowing. They are in turn never resolved, something which Black Sails has otherwise managed to avoid. The way a dead Flint is presented breaks the show's previously abided by logic rules, both textual and cinematic. A dead Flint also wastes the purposeful Treasure Island set-up, as he's now neatly in Savannah with a tangible reason to be there for twenty or so years. Even more sadly, with a very good reason to be reaching for the bottle by the end of it. You're breaking my heart, Flint.
Half-assed super-short summaries of some of the foreshadowing parallels from around the web:
-Flint comparing himself to Odysseus, and Flint's fate in the finale paralleling Odysseus' fate in turn. Flint/Odysseus is reunited with Thomas/Penelope whilst disguised (McGraw with Flint's visage) after ten years apart. With Thomas, Flint finally finds his peace where no man has ever been troubled by the sea, to a place where an oar can be mistaken for a shovel.
-The tale of Mr Flint paralleling Flint's fate in Treasure Island. Also, if Flint dies on Skeleton Island, how the hell does that Mr Flint's origin story get passed around? Did Benn Gunn manage to contact Miranda via ouija pre-Treasure Island?
- As a joint Mr Flint/Odysseus pay-off, McGraw talked to Miranda about wanting to return Flint to the sea for years, loathing and fearing his creation. With the finale, is finally able to do so. Flint was created due to the loss of Thomas, it's a fitting end that McGraw reuniting with Thomas is what finally lets him put Flint to rest, and walk away from the sea.
-If Flint dies, quite a few character parallels go to waste, and with the final season, Flint/Rogers and Flint/Madi have been the two most relevant and prominent. Flint/Rogers + Flint/Madi have nearly identical finale fates in Flint lives. Comparing Rogers and Flint in the finale, they are both spared from death, but in their final scenes they are being imprisoned without dialogue. They both have their fates literally dictated by their would-be executioners and now jailers, Rackham and Silver respectively. For Madi and Flint, the two people Silver is closest to, Silver strips both of them of their choices, their war, their revolution in order to stop the situation from escalating further. Silver gives them heartwrenching paralleling speeches, with 'I will stand' for Flint/'I will wait' Madi. It's also satisfying that Silver being the 'end' of Captain Flint - both literally and symbolically - has been a long time coming, through both foreshadowing/Silver's own words and purposefully set-up across the seasons. It was set-up from 3x10 especially, and with the combination of Thomas and Savannah, Silver finally had a way to strike down Flint for good where others had failed. I'm struggling to remember any time outside of the Silver/Rogers/Billy convo in 4x08 where Silver has talked about killing Flint directly. Silver hilariously does spend an absurd amount of time across the seasons saving Flint and ignoring other people telling him to kill Flint. Whilst there are a lot of other reasons (both thematic and literal) why I don't agree that Silver killed Flint, I do find the set-up to Flint dying being a bit awkward considering the 'I will' speech that just came before the potential big moment. It seems quite uneven that in one second Silver is willing to wait a year (well, a very long time, at least) for Flint to accept Silver's outcome, but nah, and a few seconds later, he's changed his mind. Bang.
- With Flint alive, the finale ends with him being sent away and excluded from civilization once again. The first attempt to send McGraw away was what set the events of Black Sails into motion in the first place. Previous attempts to send McGraw/Flint away came from Lord Hamilton/Admiral Hennesey, Mr Gates, and finally Silver with Oglethorpe's plantation. Considering Silver sent Flint to Thomas, whose loss lead to McGraw creating Flint, this might be the time the attempt actually works. Flint's fate is hounded by the same arc words, that haunt him throughout the series - that he is intended to 'never be seen or heard from again'.
- Eleanor's prophetic musings parallel Flint's exact fate with Thomas if he lives: 'I found myself thinking about it, walking away from Nassau, from England, from civilization. One can be happy that way, can't they? A life of isolation and uncertainty, as long as it is lived with someone you love, and who loves you back. It is possible, isn't it?' Reuniting with Thomas lets Flint resolve Silver's queries re: trading it all to have Thomas back again.
- Thomas' equally prophetic 'when and where will (the pirate issue of Nassau) all end - that's where you and I come into the story' line from when he first meets McGraw has some genuinely touching pay-off with a living Flint. The pirate issue of New Providence Island is no more at the end of Black Sails, and that's where Thomas does indeed come back into the story.
- Flint's finale civilization/darkness speech is absolutely heartwrenching, with a lot of weighted meaning behind it for Flint himself. There isn't the same pay-off to the speech if Flint dies. With Flint living, his speech and fears come to pass. There is still only freedom for him and Thomas in the darkness, and come Treasure Island, he is painted as the very monster that he fears. Contrasted from when we first see McGraw and Thomas together romantically, there is a brief moment of solace where Flint does get to freely reunite with Thomas in the light of day without shame. That being said, it's still devastating that the only place they can be free is within captivity, being excluded from civilization itself. (Again, what's with all the 'eh, happy ending' talk?) There's a bit of a harsh parallel from Flint's speech about civilization to Oglethorpe's pragmatic speech about civilization. Whilst Flint wants it all to be torn down and rebuilt, Oglethorpe knows that civilization can't be changed, but at least he can try and salvage the human debris left in its wake - ironically, Flint.
This is a bit more mushy, but what I also think the following is extremely valid considering the constant subtext of Black Sails: a dead Flint doesn't get to resolve one of the primary themes of the show, which has do with love. (I also remember Jessica Parker Kennedy talking about love being one of the themes of S4 in an interview around the time S4 started airing.) Love has been one of the most prominent themes explored by Black Sails in general, but S4 emphasised it yet again. How it saves, how it heals, how it hurts, and what the loss of it can drive us to. McGraw's love and loss of Thomas is what created Captain Flint, and drove the entire goddamn events of the series. Flint was caught between wanting to fulfil Thomas' legacy and wanting revenge for his loss, later Miranda's. After the ludicrously perpetual events and dangers the seemingly unkillable Flint as survived (Flint points this out to Silver in 3x10, and Silver examines the almost supernatural aspect of the events surrounding Flint in turn), it's a satisfying full circle that the only thing that could finally stop the inhuman force of nature that is Flint for good was reuniting James with Thomas, the very loss the created Flint in the first place. I also find it fitting Silver was the only one who could stop Flint for good, because he was the only one who ultimately had the ultimate understanding of Flint himself. The events of Black Sails entirely come to pass because of Thomas, and it's a wonderful bookend that the return of Thomas is what brings Black Sails to a close. Has there ever, ever been a character on television that has been so vital to the narrative of the show whilst having so little screentime? Even Rhaegar's influence on some of the events of Game of Thrones doesn't really come close. I find it absolutely fascinating that if McGraw had never met Thomas, and had never loved and lost Thomas, the entire events of Black Sails wouldn't have happened. My props and appreciation for Rupert Penry-Jones, too, who created a very substantial and nuanced character in Thomas with very little screentime. Great reunion scene in the finale. I really enjoyed what we saw of Thomas, and Penry-Jones was always superbly deadpanned with Thomas' dialogue, even by P-J's usual standards.
Speaking of love, judging by Steinberg's and Levine's post-finale interviews, woah, it looks like there was intentionally a lot more going on with Silver's and Flint's relationship than I had assumed. (I was distracted worrying about Jack dying, okay.) It seems like an intended reading is that there was definitely a lot going on under the surface between the two. If we take those interviews into consideration, unmaking Flint and sending James to Thomas is an act of mercy, love, sacrifice, and heartbreak on Silver's part. Ow. Ow. Ow. I don't think I'll ever get over that all of the above comes from a show with Michael Bay as an Executive Producer. It shows how little he would have had to do with the series really.
After all of the above, I should say I would have been perfectly happy with a non-ambiguous ending with Flint dying if there hadn't been all od that foreshadowing, character arc resolution, and Thomas hints that paid off with Flint living. If that hadn't been there since S1, hell yeah, bring on dead Flint!
re: the ambiguity of Flint's fate, I just feel like the worth of the viewer's input in the story isn't worth what we missed seeing in terms of dramatic scenes, dialogue, and acting moments in the trade-off. Because they couldn't give us confirmation either way, we never got to see a Flint death scene. What a tragic bookend to Flint/Gates from S1. Stephens and Arnold would have been amazing. Imagine Silver's reaction in the aftermath if he'd really killed Flint, or Flint, assuming the shot wasn't immediately fatal, having to come to grips with what Silver had done to him in his final moments? We could have seen the before or after of Silver lying to Madi about Flint's fate, watching in horror at the storyteller telling his story. We'd also have the bonus of realizing, come TI, Flint's corpse has been on Skeleton Island all along - and might have been more of a haunting presence than any of the paranoid pirates had feared. On the assumption Flint lives, it would have been fascinating to see his reaction when Silver told him about Savannah and Thomas. Or even the viewers snippets on the journey of them travelling to Savannah, and Silver watching more and more of Flint disappear as McGraw returns to the fore. Penry-Jones is a great actor, one of the few in the show easily on par with Stephens. I would have loved to have seen Thomas' reaction to Miranda's death, or that McGraw had become Flint. I realize now we'll probably never see Toby Stephens' Flint on screen again because of the ambiguous ending, even if we get TI. Seeing our Flint in TI as a washed-up lonely drunk in flashbacks would have been brutally amazing.
Since I mentioned Odysseus above, I'd also be remiss to point out the parallels of Flint's arrival to the plantation reflecting Elysian Fields, the three fates knitting, the toll being paid. Awesome. I think it works beautifully for a symbolic death for Flint. On the other hand, it creates super weird POV issues if it's purely a story told by Silver getting visual representation for the audience, as the stories in Black Sails are never shown onscreen if the storyteller was never there themselves - ie. Flint's tale of Henry Avery and Skeleton Island being the last one for the series. There has also never been a fabricated POV on the show before, too, which makes it messier again. The plantation also really doesn't work for Flint literally passing into the afterlife. Dear god, why would the man be picturing his reunion with an older bearded Thomas in servitude in a plantation? Let alone what kind of afterlife would there be for Flint that doesn't involve Miranda greeting him alongside Thomas? Wouldn't James' afterlife be one in Thomas' parlor in England, where the three of them are healthy and happy? Silver's narration also essentially stops at the last moment he sees Flint walking into the estate, and doesn't narrate anything to do with Flint's reunion with Thomas. I think the Greek symbolism works so very beautifully for Flint's symbolic death, being bookended by some nice rebirth imagery for McGraw, but taken too literally starts to break the show's own previously established logic rules after that.
I should say that I am frustrated that until the end of days, there will always be discussion of Flint being dead, over the brilliance of Flint himself as a character, not to mention the importance of Flint as a character beyond Black Sails. It truly disappoints me that the creators offered this choice to the audience, especially since I'd never realized how rampagingly homophobic a portion of the viewership was, wow. Best comment from FB: 'Flint wasn't gay in real life'. Just, man, it really sucks that in one interpretation of the ending Black Sails gets to invent a new page for TvTropes with Unbury Your Gays, and turns Black Sails into a gay retelling of The Odyssey. With Flint being dead and not reuniting with Thomas, eh, not so much.
It seems more frustrating with the implication that an alive Flint is the ending that the creators are hoping for Flint himself, especially to create backstory for Flint in TI. The creators retweeting this seems to imply they want to push the ending back at us, and to what the ending we choose says about us? Do we really think Silver to truly be that monstrous to Flint, especially considering all we knew of their relationship? (Especially after the great pains and tactical ingenuity that Flint went to, to keep Madi safe without using the guns on Rogers' ship.) Do we think Flint getting some semblance of peace is truly that improbable and undeserved, and that all the story beats we've all happily gone along with on the show (the Urca gold, Abigail Ashe, the storm), that Flint reuniting with Thomas is one that is finally unrealistic? That being said, I again ultimately feel like the ambiguity and the questions are not nearly as interesting as what could have been built on by picking one ending over the other. As an unfortunate result, I feel like the last half of the episode feels a bit uneven and half-baked, due to the intended optional reading of the scenes. I guess for me personally, it's not what either Silver or Flint did, or did deserve. It's also what fits most logically for the story, the characters, the subtext, the foreshadowing, the parallels and the actual dialogue itself. It's the story that came before the final episode of Black Sails, and the story that will come after to lead into Treasure Island. A living Flint is incredibly neat in this regard, and creates such a great perspective upon a Treasure Island re-read without altering the starting point of TI itself. We all now know the price of what gave such a feared and unparalleled man such a lacklustre end. It's also a satisfying, unique bonus that an alive Flint gets to resolve his arc and foreshadowing with Thomas' return. A dead Flint, whilst creating a shocking moment of 'ah-ha!' completely undermines the above.
Also, again, I think it's The Best Thing Ever that the prequel to Treasure Island ultimately was a gay retelling of the Odyssey. Did anyone even tell Michael Bay?
Whilst Jack and Anne (now with Mary Read) seemingly had the cheeriest end for the finale itself, if Black Sails continues with its historical links, well, it's quite tragic for all involved. Max, via Governor Featherstone and Idelle, is ruling Nassau, but one day Governor Rogers may return to his rightful place as Governor after the tales of A General History of the Pyrates turns him into a bit of a hero. Billy ended up trapped on the very island he lead everyone to, though ultimately must leave in some form in order to meet Jim Hawkins. Taken at face value, I love the story beats of Black Sails' finale, though not necessarily the execution of all of it. After the horrors and heartbreak we've suffered over the four seasons, the finale is a temporary moment of respite. It is respite that saves us from the horrors and heartbreak that is yet to come. It lets us fill in the blanks for the fates of all of the characters, both historical and fictional alike, whilst still giving the viewer freedom to give their own take on what could have occurred between Black Sails and Treasure Island. Until reading the creator interviews, I hadn't realized how much they'd wanted to balance historical moments whilst bringing Black Sails in throwing distance for Treasure Island. I'd originally thought they were going to make the TI connections a lot looser, and I feel like they walked that tightrope very well. I was skimming Treasure Island post finale, and I was surprised how effective the connective tissue had been. The legend of Captain Flint in Treasure Island immediately evoked the complete force of nature that was our Captain Flint, but in a twist, I now know the tragedy that had lead to the creation of such a man, and the scenario that may have lead to his eventual fate. I now also know know the depth of the betrayal that led to Billy Bones' absolute destruction and bitterness, and his fear of Long John Silver - though I'm quite curious how long Billy stayed on Skeleton Island pre-Treasure Island! Of course, we now know the exact circumstances that lead to the creation and legacy of Long John Silver.
I really like in post-finale interviews how the creators purposefully continued the line between Treasure Island and historical reality with Flint's fate. The 'reform minded man' we met was basically James Oglethorpe, founder of the Georgia Colony. Oglethorpe was based on a real man who chaired a Parliamentary committee on prison reform in England, though unlike Thomas, his petitions went through and he was successful. The 'non sibi sed aliis'/'not for themselves, but for others' on the gate of the estate of Oglethorpe's plantation is the colonial seal of the State of Georgia. It's tragic and fitting that the men at the plantation are not there by choice for themselves, but because and for others. Thomas being in Savannah is one of the more logical plot points on the show, considering everything that went down with securing the Urca gold, Abigail Ashe on Nassau, the series of improbable events that saw the Walrus crew to Maroon island, etc. A side effect of Thomas' return suddenly gives a different perspective on both Lord Hamilton and Peter Ashe. Did both of them feel guilt over the severity of Thomas' punishment and treatment? Did Peter Ashe bring Thomas to Savannah before or after Flint killed Lord Hamilton?
I can kinda objectively appreciate the thematic open ending twist on Flint and Silver, and I understand how the episode is 100% intended to be read either way and left up to the viewer's discretion. Unfortunately, I don't really think offering the choice of an ambiguous outcome does a great service to the final episode itself, especially in terms of what it did to characters and pacing. It makes the episode feel a bit cleaved out and uneven, no matter which ending the viewer prefers. For me, the smoothest reading of the episode is with a living Flint getting a symbolic close from Silver. In terms of just the pure text of Black Sails, a dead Flint undoes the show's parallels and foreshadowing. They are in turn never resolved, something which Black Sails has otherwise managed to avoid. The way a dead Flint is presented breaks the show's previously abided by logic rules, both textual and cinematic. A dead Flint also wastes the purposeful Treasure Island set-up, as he's now neatly in Savannah with a tangible reason to be there for twenty or so years. Even more sadly, with a very good reason to be reaching for the bottle by the end of it. You're breaking my heart, Flint.
Half-assed super-short summaries of some of the foreshadowing parallels from around the web:
-Flint comparing himself to Odysseus, and Flint's fate in the finale paralleling Odysseus' fate in turn. Flint/Odysseus is reunited with Thomas/Penelope whilst disguised (McGraw with Flint's visage) after ten years apart. With Thomas, Flint finally finds his peace where no man has ever been troubled by the sea, to a place where an oar can be mistaken for a shovel.
-The tale of Mr Flint paralleling Flint's fate in Treasure Island. Also, if Flint dies on Skeleton Island, how the hell does that Mr Flint's origin story get passed around? Did Benn Gunn manage to contact Miranda via ouija pre-Treasure Island?
- As a joint Mr Flint/Odysseus pay-off, McGraw talked to Miranda about wanting to return Flint to the sea for years, loathing and fearing his creation. With the finale, is finally able to do so. Flint was created due to the loss of Thomas, it's a fitting end that McGraw reuniting with Thomas is what finally lets him put Flint to rest, and walk away from the sea.
-If Flint dies, quite a few character parallels go to waste, and with the final season, Flint/Rogers and Flint/Madi have been the two most relevant and prominent. Flint/Rogers + Flint/Madi have nearly identical finale fates in Flint lives. Comparing Rogers and Flint in the finale, they are both spared from death, but in their final scenes they are being imprisoned without dialogue. They both have their fates literally dictated by their would-be executioners and now jailers, Rackham and Silver respectively. For Madi and Flint, the two people Silver is closest to, Silver strips both of them of their choices, their war, their revolution in order to stop the situation from escalating further. Silver gives them heartwrenching paralleling speeches, with 'I will stand' for Flint/'I will wait' Madi. It's also satisfying that Silver being the 'end' of Captain Flint - both literally and symbolically - has been a long time coming, through both foreshadowing/Silver's own words and purposefully set-up across the seasons. It was set-up from 3x10 especially, and with the combination of Thomas and Savannah, Silver finally had a way to strike down Flint for good where others had failed. I'm struggling to remember any time outside of the Silver/Rogers/Billy convo in 4x08 where Silver has talked about killing Flint directly. Silver hilariously does spend an absurd amount of time across the seasons saving Flint and ignoring other people telling him to kill Flint. Whilst there are a lot of other reasons (both thematic and literal) why I don't agree that Silver killed Flint, I do find the set-up to Flint dying being a bit awkward considering the 'I will' speech that just came before the potential big moment. It seems quite uneven that in one second Silver is willing to wait a year (well, a very long time, at least) for Flint to accept Silver's outcome, but nah, and a few seconds later, he's changed his mind. Bang.
- With Flint alive, the finale ends with him being sent away and excluded from civilization once again. The first attempt to send McGraw away was what set the events of Black Sails into motion in the first place. Previous attempts to send McGraw/Flint away came from Lord Hamilton/Admiral Hennesey, Mr Gates, and finally Silver with Oglethorpe's plantation. Considering Silver sent Flint to Thomas, whose loss lead to McGraw creating Flint, this might be the time the attempt actually works. Flint's fate is hounded by the same arc words, that haunt him throughout the series - that he is intended to 'never be seen or heard from again'.
- Eleanor's prophetic musings parallel Flint's exact fate with Thomas if he lives: 'I found myself thinking about it, walking away from Nassau, from England, from civilization. One can be happy that way, can't they? A life of isolation and uncertainty, as long as it is lived with someone you love, and who loves you back. It is possible, isn't it?' Reuniting with Thomas lets Flint resolve Silver's queries re: trading it all to have Thomas back again.
- Thomas' equally prophetic 'when and where will (the pirate issue of Nassau) all end - that's where you and I come into the story' line from when he first meets McGraw has some genuinely touching pay-off with a living Flint. The pirate issue of New Providence Island is no more at the end of Black Sails, and that's where Thomas does indeed come back into the story.
- Flint's finale civilization/darkness speech is absolutely heartwrenching, with a lot of weighted meaning behind it for Flint himself. There isn't the same pay-off to the speech if Flint dies. With Flint living, his speech and fears come to pass. There is still only freedom for him and Thomas in the darkness, and come Treasure Island, he is painted as the very monster that he fears. Contrasted from when we first see McGraw and Thomas together romantically, there is a brief moment of solace where Flint does get to freely reunite with Thomas in the light of day without shame. That being said, it's still devastating that the only place they can be free is within captivity, being excluded from civilization itself. (Again, what's with all the 'eh, happy ending' talk?) There's a bit of a harsh parallel from Flint's speech about civilization to Oglethorpe's pragmatic speech about civilization. Whilst Flint wants it all to be torn down and rebuilt, Oglethorpe knows that civilization can't be changed, but at least he can try and salvage the human debris left in its wake - ironically, Flint.
This is a bit more mushy, but what I also think the following is extremely valid considering the constant subtext of Black Sails: a dead Flint doesn't get to resolve one of the primary themes of the show, which has do with love. (I also remember Jessica Parker Kennedy talking about love being one of the themes of S4 in an interview around the time S4 started airing.) Love has been one of the most prominent themes explored by Black Sails in general, but S4 emphasised it yet again. How it saves, how it heals, how it hurts, and what the loss of it can drive us to. McGraw's love and loss of Thomas is what created Captain Flint, and drove the entire goddamn events of the series. Flint was caught between wanting to fulfil Thomas' legacy and wanting revenge for his loss, later Miranda's. After the ludicrously perpetual events and dangers the seemingly unkillable Flint as survived (Flint points this out to Silver in 3x10, and Silver examines the almost supernatural aspect of the events surrounding Flint in turn), it's a satisfying full circle that the only thing that could finally stop the inhuman force of nature that is Flint for good was reuniting James with Thomas, the very loss the created Flint in the first place. I also find it fitting Silver was the only one who could stop Flint for good, because he was the only one who ultimately had the ultimate understanding of Flint himself. The events of Black Sails entirely come to pass because of Thomas, and it's a wonderful bookend that the return of Thomas is what brings Black Sails to a close. Has there ever, ever been a character on television that has been so vital to the narrative of the show whilst having so little screentime? Even Rhaegar's influence on some of the events of Game of Thrones doesn't really come close. I find it absolutely fascinating that if McGraw had never met Thomas, and had never loved and lost Thomas, the entire events of Black Sails wouldn't have happened. My props and appreciation for Rupert Penry-Jones, too, who created a very substantial and nuanced character in Thomas with very little screentime. Great reunion scene in the finale. I really enjoyed what we saw of Thomas, and Penry-Jones was always superbly deadpanned with Thomas' dialogue, even by P-J's usual standards.
Speaking of love, judging by Steinberg's and Levine's post-finale interviews, woah, it looks like there was intentionally a lot more going on with Silver's and Flint's relationship than I had assumed. (I was distracted worrying about Jack dying, okay.) It seems like an intended reading is that there was definitely a lot going on under the surface between the two. If we take those interviews into consideration, unmaking Flint and sending James to Thomas is an act of mercy, love, sacrifice, and heartbreak on Silver's part. Ow. Ow. Ow. I don't think I'll ever get over that all of the above comes from a show with Michael Bay as an Executive Producer. It shows how little he would have had to do with the series really.
After all of the above, I should say I would have been perfectly happy with a non-ambiguous ending with Flint dying if there hadn't been all od that foreshadowing, character arc resolution, and Thomas hints that paid off with Flint living. If that hadn't been there since S1, hell yeah, bring on dead Flint!
re: the ambiguity of Flint's fate, I just feel like the worth of the viewer's input in the story isn't worth what we missed seeing in terms of dramatic scenes, dialogue, and acting moments in the trade-off. Because they couldn't give us confirmation either way, we never got to see a Flint death scene. What a tragic bookend to Flint/Gates from S1. Stephens and Arnold would have been amazing. Imagine Silver's reaction in the aftermath if he'd really killed Flint, or Flint, assuming the shot wasn't immediately fatal, having to come to grips with what Silver had done to him in his final moments? We could have seen the before or after of Silver lying to Madi about Flint's fate, watching in horror at the storyteller telling his story. We'd also have the bonus of realizing, come TI, Flint's corpse has been on Skeleton Island all along - and might have been more of a haunting presence than any of the paranoid pirates had feared. On the assumption Flint lives, it would have been fascinating to see his reaction when Silver told him about Savannah and Thomas. Or even the viewers snippets on the journey of them travelling to Savannah, and Silver watching more and more of Flint disappear as McGraw returns to the fore. Penry-Jones is a great actor, one of the few in the show easily on par with Stephens. I would have loved to have seen Thomas' reaction to Miranda's death, or that McGraw had become Flint. I realize now we'll probably never see Toby Stephens' Flint on screen again because of the ambiguous ending, even if we get TI. Seeing our Flint in TI as a washed-up lonely drunk in flashbacks would have been brutally amazing.
Since I mentioned Odysseus above, I'd also be remiss to point out the parallels of Flint's arrival to the plantation reflecting Elysian Fields, the three fates knitting, the toll being paid. Awesome. I think it works beautifully for a symbolic death for Flint. On the other hand, it creates super weird POV issues if it's purely a story told by Silver getting visual representation for the audience, as the stories in Black Sails are never shown onscreen if the storyteller was never there themselves - ie. Flint's tale of Henry Avery and Skeleton Island being the last one for the series. There has also never been a fabricated POV on the show before, too, which makes it messier again. The plantation also really doesn't work for Flint literally passing into the afterlife. Dear god, why would the man be picturing his reunion with an older bearded Thomas in servitude in a plantation? Let alone what kind of afterlife would there be for Flint that doesn't involve Miranda greeting him alongside Thomas? Wouldn't James' afterlife be one in Thomas' parlor in England, where the three of them are healthy and happy? Silver's narration also essentially stops at the last moment he sees Flint walking into the estate, and doesn't narrate anything to do with Flint's reunion with Thomas. I think the Greek symbolism works so very beautifully for Flint's symbolic death, being bookended by some nice rebirth imagery for McGraw, but taken too literally starts to break the show's own previously established logic rules after that.
I should say that I am frustrated that until the end of days, there will always be discussion of Flint being dead, over the brilliance of Flint himself as a character, not to mention the importance of Flint as a character beyond Black Sails. It truly disappoints me that the creators offered this choice to the audience, especially since I'd never realized how rampagingly homophobic a portion of the viewership was, wow. Best comment from FB: 'Flint wasn't gay in real life'. Just, man, it really sucks that in one interpretation of the ending Black Sails gets to invent a new page for TvTropes with Unbury Your Gays, and turns Black Sails into a gay retelling of The Odyssey. With Flint being dead and not reuniting with Thomas, eh, not so much.
It seems more frustrating with the implication that an alive Flint is the ending that the creators are hoping for Flint himself, especially to create backstory for Flint in TI. The creators retweeting this seems to imply they want to push the ending back at us, and to what the ending we choose says about us? Do we really think Silver to truly be that monstrous to Flint, especially considering all we knew of their relationship? (Especially after the great pains and tactical ingenuity that Flint went to, to keep Madi safe without using the guns on Rogers' ship.) Do we think Flint getting some semblance of peace is truly that improbable and undeserved, and that all the story beats we've all happily gone along with on the show (the Urca gold, Abigail Ashe, the storm), that Flint reuniting with Thomas is one that is finally unrealistic? That being said, I again ultimately feel like the ambiguity and the questions are not nearly as interesting as what could have been built on by picking one ending over the other. As an unfortunate result, I feel like the last half of the episode feels a bit uneven and half-baked, due to the intended optional reading of the scenes. I guess for me personally, it's not what either Silver or Flint did, or did deserve. It's also what fits most logically for the story, the characters, the subtext, the foreshadowing, the parallels and the actual dialogue itself. It's the story that came before the final episode of Black Sails, and the story that will come after to lead into Treasure Island. A living Flint is incredibly neat in this regard, and creates such a great perspective upon a Treasure Island re-read without altering the starting point of TI itself. We all now know the price of what gave such a feared and unparalleled man such a lacklustre end. It's also a satisfying, unique bonus that an alive Flint gets to resolve his arc and foreshadowing with Thomas' return. A dead Flint, whilst creating a shocking moment of 'ah-ha!' completely undermines the above.
Also, again, I think it's The Best Thing Ever that the prequel to Treasure Island ultimately was a gay retelling of the Odyssey. Did anyone even tell Michael Bay?
Oh, Black Sails. There have definitely been shows that have neater edges than you, but I don't think I've ever been so captivated in a television series before. I watched in absolute awe at the layers upon layers that were revealed from within, and the unprecedented density in the narrative, the parallels, and the characters. The amount of respect that the creators had for its viewership was incredible, let alone for blockbuster action adventure drama! What an incredible legacy to leave, too, with a complete deconstruction of how women, men and women of color, and queer people are treated and remembered by history. Considering the respectful treatment and depth of Madi, Flint, Eleanor, Max, and Anne, other period dramas don't have an excuse for not telling these stories, let alone modern day dramas! Good job, Black Sails. (My awe and amazement to anyone who reads all of the above, you deserve your own cache of gems.)
Yabberwocky
Member
I know some of the finale interviews got linked in the previous pages, but they are all such great reads, especially in regard to Silver and Flint for anyone that has missed them. The following is some excerpts that I found particularly interesting and sometimes quite illuminating. There is a bit of overlap in some of the questions and answers, but the variation in some of the answers leads to interesting perspectives.
These are the two longest posts I've ever made on GAF in a row, whoops, let alone the most spoiler tags I've ever used in my life. Can you get banned for too much text? Curse you, Black Sails!
These are the two longest posts I've ever made on GAF in a row, whoops, let alone the most spoiler tags I've ever used in my life. Can you get banned for too much text? Curse you, Black Sails!
Didn't want to make a new thread, so I thought appropriate to post here.
Anyways, was looking for more Pirate media and I was reminded off-hand about Black Sails. Didn't know anything about it other than Michael Bay's name being on it. Figured, "What the hell" and gave the pilot a go on Hulu and was pleasantly surprised that this was, of all the fucking things in the world, a (Dark and Gritty) prequel to Treasure Island. By the end of the pilot I was sold and have thoroughly enjoyed the ride. Part of the fun for me has been seeing the show balance Treasure Island lore and history (what they keep, what changes). The dimensions given to these people is incredible and it's gonna be weird whenever I revisit the book again. Especially the relationship between Silver and Flint with the ebb and flow of it. I think the only thing about this show I'm disappointed in is that I didn't see the origin of Silver's parrot!
The final season here has made great use of the immediate conflict and I'm glad they had the time to naturally follow its course. I really liked where it ended up for these characters. While I wouldn't say that Flint's fate is something that's "deserved", it was simultaneously heartwarming, as is the entire bittersweet finale. Except for Billy, though I never liked him much anyways (too fuckin' nosy in season 1). I have to say I absolutely love the way they handled Woods Rogers on this show, his evolution throughout felt appropriate and both fulfilled being the main antagonist to the pirates while being three dimensional himself. Madi was a force of her own and I loved seeing her flip the tables on Rogers and Billy. I liked how she sorta contrasted Silver's inherent worminess, being steadfast and committed to what she wants and believes to the very end. Great acting from everyone here, especially Flint.
I could go on, since I haven't even touched the magnificent Calico Jack, Anne Bonny, Charles fuckin' Vane, Blackbeard, Eleanor, Max, hell, even Mr. Scott and Hornigold. This show was such a pleasant surprise it needs to be up there when it comes to great pirate fiction. McCreary delivered on this show as well, beyond the rousing theme and his cover of the sea shanty (though I am once again reminded that the "hurdy gurdy" is an instrument that exists. Strange thing). Pretty bummed I don't see a lot of love for this show, but I'm guessing that's the side effect of having so much great tv at once? Nevertheless, this is pretty much the best piece of work that Michael Bay's name is on.
So yeah. It was good.
Anyways, was looking for more Pirate media and I was reminded off-hand about Black Sails. Didn't know anything about it other than Michael Bay's name being on it. Figured, "What the hell" and gave the pilot a go on Hulu and was pleasantly surprised that this was, of all the fucking things in the world, a (Dark and Gritty) prequel to Treasure Island. By the end of the pilot I was sold and have thoroughly enjoyed the ride. Part of the fun for me has been seeing the show balance Treasure Island lore and history (what they keep, what changes). The dimensions given to these people is incredible and it's gonna be weird whenever I revisit the book again. Especially the relationship between Silver and Flint with the ebb and flow of it. I think the only thing about this show I'm disappointed in is that I didn't see the origin of Silver's parrot!
The final season here has made great use of the immediate conflict and I'm glad they had the time to naturally follow its course. I really liked where it ended up for these characters. While I wouldn't say that Flint's fate is something that's "deserved", it was simultaneously heartwarming, as is the entire bittersweet finale. Except for Billy, though I never liked him much anyways (too fuckin' nosy in season 1). I have to say I absolutely love the way they handled Woods Rogers on this show, his evolution throughout felt appropriate and both fulfilled being the main antagonist to the pirates while being three dimensional himself. Madi was a force of her own and I loved seeing her flip the tables on Rogers and Billy. I liked how she sorta contrasted Silver's inherent worminess, being steadfast and committed to what she wants and believes to the very end. Great acting from everyone here, especially Flint.
I could go on, since I haven't even touched the magnificent Calico Jack, Anne Bonny, Charles fuckin' Vane, Blackbeard, Eleanor, Max, hell, even Mr. Scott and Hornigold. This show was such a pleasant surprise it needs to be up there when it comes to great pirate fiction. McCreary delivered on this show as well, beyond the rousing theme and his cover of the sea shanty (though I am once again reminded that the "hurdy gurdy" is an instrument that exists. Strange thing). Pretty bummed I don't see a lot of love for this show, but I'm guessing that's the side effect of having so much great tv at once? Nevertheless, this is pretty much the best piece of work that Michael Bay's name is on.
So yeah. It was good.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
One of us! One of us! One of us!
Glad to see another person who discovered this show. I think it's going to be one of those programs that continues to find fans over the years thanks to streaming. So many cable programs have took swings at the brooding complex protagonist ala Tony Soprano or Don Draper, and it's usually a pretty transparent attempt to be taken seriously as a show. Flint (and I suppose Silver too!) actually pulled it off quite well without it ever feeling forced or cliche. Black Sails played the long game with all its characters and it paid off.