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Boruto |OT| Naruto Next Generations
- Thread starter Desmond
- Start date
Kishi is a sexist hack of a writer and keeping Hinata as a background character worked out for the best. His idea of developing her would have just been more "naruto-kuns", blushing and fainting.
Problem with Sakura is that she had no real motivation and back story to make her character interesting. Naruto shunned and his goal to become hokage, Sasuke had his whole clan kiled and his revenge motivation, and Sakura had fawning over Saskue and motivation to be his wife?
-Pyromaniac-
Member
yeah this sums up my feelings toward it. No one could really relate to her on any level so I think people just resented it.
Icyflamez96
Member
they want to make diplomatic relations with the mist village yet choose to send their most problematic class on the trip. what awful, awful writing.
dropping boruto. that terrible writing decision has ruined the franchise for me
dropping boruto. that terrible writing decision has ruined the franchise for me
Wait, really lol
SoulUnison
Banned
This is going to sound pretty reductionist, but with my experiences with anime fans and fiction fans in general over the years, especially in Japan, it seems like young men tend to naturally get attracted to "inoffensive blank slate" characters like Hinata, while instantly disliking anyone with a hint of their own personality, preferences and opinions like Sakura. It's like how in Evangelion Rei was specifically designed and written to be offputting, alienating and weird, but the fans ATE THAT SHIT UP because it meant having a subservient woman-doll to project their fantasies on with no risk of that outlet ever raising objections or having thoughts of its own. I don't think anime fans -want- strong female characters. I think they want mildly-sentient blow-up dolls.
And the massive uptick in honestly disgusting harem and fanservice shows over the last couple years isn't doing a ton to convince me otherwise.
Not to mention all the blatant wish-fulfillment shows and manga that are just spins on "Average teenager wakes up in the world of [something currently popular.]"
People don't want strong characters or meaningful narratives anymore, they want wish-fulfillment and escapism.
Not to mention all the blatant wish-fulfillment shows and manga that are just spins on "Average teenager wakes up in the world of [something currently popular.]"
People don't want strong characters or meaningful narratives anymore, they want wish-fulfillment and escapism.
I always found her to be the most relatable because she was the one of the main trio (+Kakashi) that didn't have any particular "gifts."
Naruto has the Nine Tails, Sasuke has the Sharingan, Kakashi has the Sharingan and is an elite Jounin, and Sakura... Is book-smart.
I always thought her "Ninja Hermione" angle was pretty interesting, but then Kishimoto stopped developing her. A character whose talent was a firm grasp of the fundamentals could have been great.
Icyflamez96
Member
Reductionist is an understatement. Say what you want about Hinata, but are we really going to sit here and act like there aren't a million valid reasons to dislike Sakura as a character? And are we going to call Sakura a strong female character? If she truly was, would she have ended up with Sasuke, at least without having a damn good chat with him about how much of an asshat he is? Would they have been obsessed with him for the entire manga?
Not to mention this is ignoring that there are plenty of "opinionated" female characters that are beloved, like Nami from One Piece for instance. Hell she even won a recent poll.
Whatever argument you're trying to make here, it reaaaaaaly doesn't work with Sakura Haruno of all people.
SoulUnison
Banned
I wasn't really calling Sakura a "strong female character" at all, because, if she was, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now to begin with.
And Nami and Robin from One Piece go down a different but parallel road to this issue, really.
Consider how they were drawn and portrayed in their first appearances with the almost grotesque amount of plastic surgery they would have needed to undergo to achieve their current, nearly inhuman forms.
I used to feel like Nami and Robin were great female characters, but that all got ruined once Oda started depicting them as sentient balloons wearing bikinis.
Are you honestly going to try to tell me that Nami won that poll because she's a "strong, opinionated female character with her own goals and ambitions," or is it because she's become basically the Strawhat's private stripper, constantly bouncing in the breeze, covered by increasingly smaller and smaller scraps of "clothing?"
Even if you take Sakura out of the equation, let's say she doesn't exist at all, Hinata would still be a submissive husk of a person who does nothing but worship the protagonist. She's like the ultimate fanservice character.
4 is a cutie
Banned
Jesus that sounds way more interesting than what we got
There needs to be a shounen where the protagonist rejects this type of character for being so bland
I wasn't really calling Sakura a "strong female character" at all, because, if she was, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now to begin with.
And Nami and Robin from One Piece go down a different but parallel road to this issue, really.
Consider how they were drawn and portrayed in their first appearances with the almost grotesque amount of plastic surgery they would have needed to undergo to achieve their current, nearly inhuman forms.
I used to feel like Nami and Robin were great female characters, but that all got ruined once Oda started depicting them as sentient balloons wearing bikinis.
Are you honestly going to try to tell me that Nami won that poll because she's a "strong, opinionated female character with her own goals and ambitions," or is it because she's become basically the Strawhat's private stripper, constantly bouncing in the breeze, covered by increasingly smaller and smaller scraps of "clothing?"
This is fake.....right??
yeah gonna call bullshit on that, in fact submissive is the last adjective i would use to describe her by the end of the manga
SoulUnison
Banned
Only the "Episode 900" pic is humorously exaggerated. The others are 100% real straight-from-the-anime screenshots.
Regarding this, direct the criticism at the author, not the characters themselves. (As well as the people behind the anime, who actually manage to go above and beyond.) Their personalities and roles are pretty much the same, with Nami in particular being pivotal in the current arc. So arguing that the size of their chests somehow took all of that characterization away makes no sense. Now obviously, criticizing their new designs is completely fair game for obvious reasons; I don't like it myself. But I really never got the argument of how Nami and Robin having a larger chest equates to the characters having gone "full Fairy Tail", when that isn't actually true. Oda admittedly has them in a weird place where their larger chest kind of implies that he'd invoke fanservice every other chapter. But in actuality... Nope. It's here and there, largely infrequent, like it pretty much has always been in the manga, especially regarding Robin. But sure, she won a poll because she's a stripper. Feel free to go with whatever take you want lol
The only point I was making by bringing up Nami is that she is just one of many examples of a female character that has a personality, isn't submissive, etc. that well... people actually like. Not to say that you have no point regarding why people may be drawn to characters like Hinata, I just disagree with you saying that people have no love for characters that are the complete opposite. Generally speaking, people that don't like Sakura have very valid reasons not to, she earned that unpopularity.
I said "Say what you want about Hinata" for a reason. I don't care to defend her, female characters in Naruto are generally not worth caping for. I was just dumbstruck that Soul are acting like there's this complicated reason as to why people disliked Sakura, when it's pretty damn clear-cut lol
dem dang o big teddies
And yet people like Sarada and Chouchou just fine. People like to strawman about other preferences but in the end what is liked is liked and what is disliked is disliked.
SoulUnison
Banned
-Do- people like Chouchou?
People seemed to find her amusing back when the Gaiden was published, but since the anime I've seen nothing but hate for how one-note of a character she is, alongside her completely undeserved smugness and self-centeredness.
SoulUnison
Banned
But Sakura had Ino!
Well, for except for the 10% of the time they were antagonistic rivals and the 85% of the time they never interacted on-screen...
I like chocho and what she seemingly represents.
A girl who's obviously plus sized which is normally looked down upon yet is one of the most confident characters. Its also kinda nice to have a ninja of color in the group.
I don't know that she's any more "one note" than any other Naruto side character.
A girl who's obviously plus sized which is normally looked down upon yet is one of the most confident characters. Its also kinda nice to have a ninja of color in the group.
I don't know that she's any more "one note" than any other Naruto side character.
SoulUnison
Banned
It's one thing to be confident and have self-esteem. It's something else entirely to be smug and self-centered almost to the point of delusional while having no real accomplishments to back her behavior up with.
She's a child.
I definitely like that myself, it's a great (and necessary) contrast to how Choji was initially portrayed. The only thing that bugs me was the whole "Are you my daddy" thing, and like hitting on every other male character lol
Chouchou is pretty well liked in Japan. Kishi actually commented about this, he said he was surprised of her popularity and compared how Rock Lee become involuntary popular in Naruto.
She and Sarada were the only girls not interesed in Kagura last episode...
And?
Ehh I don't really see this about her at all. Weird.
She doesn't hit in every male character then?
I never said that though?
SoulUnison
Banned
Chouchou is great and it helps her voice actress is distinctive and really pleasant sounding I think.
Ino was alright as Sakuras friend but they were also mean to each other sometimes but chouchou and Sarada are like chouji and shikamaru type friends which is way more refreshing because they arent rivals.
Ino was alright as Sakuras friend but they were also mean to each other sometimes but chouchou and Sarada are like chouji and shikamaru type friends which is way more refreshing because they arent rivals.
As someone who has recently been re watching early Naruto. It's very easy to see why she is so disliked. She constantly berates and hits Naruto, with having no accomplishments or contributions to speak of. Her fight with Zaku in the FoD is kinda pathetic, the fucking bites his arm. Her fight with Ino in the Prelims is built on a vain rivaly over a boy, which they threw away a friendship over. Also all the stuff that happens in Shipuuden just makes it worse.
I suppose I'll be the one to defend Hinata. She's cute as hell, is a girl that's not screaming about Sasuke, and has reason's to define her crush on Naruto. She works hard, just as Naruto and Lee do ,but her attitude of self-depreciation holds her back. Her backstory is interesting, as is her relationship with Neji. She almost gets herself killed in her fight with him. Also before the Chunin Exam finals, she emotionally supports Naruto when he opens up to her about his uncertainty with his upcoming match. There is definitely stuff I'm missing but that what I'll put out there. Also you guys spouting that bland shit sound mad salty.
Another point. I hated Sakura way more in the past, and that was probably because of the anime, it can exaggerate and stereotype some of the traites of the characters, like Sakura's anger and Hinata fainting and stuttering.
I suppose I'll be the one to defend Hinata. She's cute as hell, is a girl that's not screaming about Sasuke, and has reason's to define her crush on Naruto. She works hard, just as Naruto and Lee do ,but her attitude of self-depreciation holds her back. Her backstory is interesting, as is her relationship with Neji. She almost gets herself killed in her fight with him. Also before the Chunin Exam finals, she emotionally supports Naruto when he opens up to her about his uncertainty with his upcoming match. There is definitely stuff I'm missing but that what I'll put out there. Also you guys spouting that bland shit sound mad salty.
Another point. I hated Sakura way more in the past, and that was probably because of the anime, it can exaggerate and stereotype some of the traites of the characters, like Sakura's anger and Hinata fainting and stuttering.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Btw I know Im like a week late but 5he latest boruto chapter had some great stuff in it.
Dug the interesting villain setup and the fight was cool.
Dug the interesting villain setup and the fight was cool.
Shouta
Member
It's pretty easy not to like early Sakura as Wild Card points out. She's pretty antagonistic to Naruto and totally into Sasuke while not really adding anything to the team dynamic early on. When you add in Naruto's backstory, she comes across as jerk until later into the story. She gets better but doesn't really do anything that really changes her image, at least in the main story stuff written by Kishi.
One of the big reasons I really enjoyed the Road to Ninja movie was because it gave Sakura and Naruto a taste of each other's perspectives in life. It felt like they had an understanding of each other and a way to finally interact that could work. Too bad it was only for the movie and never made it back into the main series, lol.
Her case has a lot to do with Kishi being a terrible writer but it's also a trope that's been in anime for a long time. The male MC, the fiery/talkative girl, and the quiet girl triangle goes back as far as I can remember. As I recall, the fiery/talkative girl often gets more flack if she's antagonistic to the MC and if the MC has empathetic story like he's socially awkward or was bullied before. In the absence of either or both, they don't get it as much. Nami was brought up in the thread and she's a good example of a character that is a bit antagonistic to the male MC at times but the male MC is such a happy go lucky SOB that it comes off as a fun at least. It also helps they actually have real interactions too, heh.
That's not to say they aren't popular but in comparison to their quiet counterpart in the triangle, they're not quite there. At least as far as I can tell, Hinata is more popular than Sakura. Rei from Eva is more popular Asuka, etc.
Basically, it's pretty easy to dislike someone that berates a person that has baggage. It's especially true when there's no real rapport between them. It can be easy to avoid if it wasn't intended but a lot of anime really miss their chances.
One of the big reasons I really enjoyed the Road to Ninja movie was because it gave Sakura and Naruto a taste of each other's perspectives in life. It felt like they had an understanding of each other and a way to finally interact that could work. Too bad it was only for the movie and never made it back into the main series, lol.
Her case has a lot to do with Kishi being a terrible writer but it's also a trope that's been in anime for a long time. The male MC, the fiery/talkative girl, and the quiet girl triangle goes back as far as I can remember. As I recall, the fiery/talkative girl often gets more flack if she's antagonistic to the MC and if the MC has empathetic story like he's socially awkward or was bullied before. In the absence of either or both, they don't get it as much. Nami was brought up in the thread and she's a good example of a character that is a bit antagonistic to the male MC at times but the male MC is such a happy go lucky SOB that it comes off as a fun at least. It also helps they actually have real interactions too, heh.
That's not to say they aren't popular but in comparison to their quiet counterpart in the triangle, they're not quite there. At least as far as I can tell, Hinata is more popular than Sakura. Rei from Eva is more popular Asuka, etc.
Basically, it's pretty easy to dislike someone that berates a person that has baggage. It's especially true when there's no real rapport between them. It can be easy to avoid if it wasn't intended but a lot of anime really miss their chances.
Chocho and Sarada are cool. It helps that they're not just blatant copies of their parents but more like a mix.
The three Mist guys had some solid designs, although Kagura better have a connection to Yagura so he's not just a Kishi-style knock-off design like a lot of the later Mist characters were.
Ugh, thinking about it, Yagura should have lived and been the Mizukage. Kagura could have been his son or something. In fact, all the Kage should have been jins.
The three Mist guys had some solid designs, although Kagura better have a connection to Yagura so he's not just a Kishi-style knock-off design like a lot of the later Mist characters were.
Ugh, thinking about it, Yagura should have lived and been the Mizukage. Kagura could have been his son or something. In fact, all the Kage should have been jins.
BudokaiMR2
Member
I'm honestly surprised that anyone could be confused about Hinata's popularity compared to Sakura. Seems pretty obvious and was set up incredibly early in the story.
Sakura is the girl in class crushing on the 'cool kid' just because and being a borderline bully to the MC at times.
Hinata is the girl who crushes on the MC not because he is cool or suave, but because he has a good heart despite the world and everyone else shitting on him at every chance.
Sakura is the girl in class crushing on the 'cool kid' just because and being a borderline bully to the MC at times.
Hinata is the girl who crushes on the MC not because he is cool or suave, but because he has a good heart despite the world and everyone else shitting on him at every chance.
I don't think anyone is surprised about it other than Kishi really, it says a lot that he still doesn't get it.
Also, being paired up with the hottest person in your class gives you a lot more to base your crush on than stalking them.
Byakuya769
Member
Chou Chou is amazing. That is all.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Well, let's not forget the poor NaruSaku shippers who held out hope right till the end.
But yeah it says a lot that even Kishimoto doesn't get it.
But at the same time it makes total sense. Naruto is sending his son. Boruto might be the most problematic on the class, however he has become a diplomatic gesture. Now the Mist Village know that Naruto trusts them, since he has sent his son (and the one of the last Uchiha) there. Would be nice if someone mentioned that, hahaha. So this will be my headcanon .
I just realized towards the end of the manga, Kishi was never going to do any justice to his female characters and just write them in a corner. This includes Hinata & Sakura.
Despite Sakura's flaws, I honestly thought she would be given some significance given the team she was on and how Kakashi introduced her as the one who had the best control of her chakra. And she was personally trained by one of the 3 legendary ninjas and 5th Hokage.
Yet they shoehorn her into a support role and pretty well forget about her.
Hinata is the same, had great chakra control, one of the few Hyuuga in the series.... could have written her to become something more but instead, she just becomes shipping material and nothing more.
With so few prominent ladies in the series, you'd think he'd try to get at least one right.
Edit; Chouchou is my favourite female ninja in this new series.
Despite Sakura's flaws, I honestly thought she would be given some significance given the team she was on and how Kakashi introduced her as the one who had the best control of her chakra. And she was personally trained by one of the 3 legendary ninjas and 5th Hokage.
Yet they shoehorn her into a support role and pretty well forget about her.
Hinata is the same, had great chakra control, one of the few Hyuuga in the series.... could have written her to become something more but instead, she just becomes shipping material and nothing more.
With so few prominent ladies in the series, you'd think he'd try to get at least one right.
Edit; Chouchou is my favourite female ninja in this new series.
Shouta
Member
Naruto/Sakura would have been potentially the best pair if given the right amount of development between the two. That antagonism early on could have turned into a real base for something. It was kind of my preferred one even though I knew it was going to be Hinata.
But yeah, Kishi. =(
Icyflamez96
Member
I justified it more by them sending their worst first so that they know they wont have any problems sending any other class in the future lol, but that makes sense too. (Not that I actually think this is that important of an issue)