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Breaking: Israel launches Operation Protective Edge against Hamas in Gaza

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Pilgor

Member
MK Ayelet Shaked Exposes Daily Beast Reporter’s Deliberate Distortions

Israel is under attack. Since last week, Hamas terrorists have fired more than 1000 rockets at our civilian centers, launching those rockets from residential enclaves, kindergartens and hospitals, exposing their own children to harm as they try to kill our children.

There’s no ambiguity among our allies as to Israel’s right to defend her citizens. In fact, many Arab voices, in Egypt and elsewhere, have condemned Hamas, blaming it for the tragedy it is bringing on the heads of its own people.

Sadly, the militant, leftist propaganda machine has not changed its tune, looking for every opportunity to make Israel the culprit in a war she did not desire and which she entered reluctantly, after days of increasing provocation.

I refer specifically to “Daily Beast” writer Gideon Resnick, who so misrepresented the facts in one of my recent Facebook posts, one has to wonder if his hatred for my country hasn’t rendered him outright useless to his website and his readers.

In a story headlined “Israeli Politician Declares War on the Palestinian People,” Resnick actually suggested I compared Palestinian children to “little snakes,” and accused me of fomenting Palestinian genocide. This vilification was later picked up by several bloggers and reporters, all of whom were convinced of this frightening notion, without even a scrap of fact or truth.

Let’s start with my July 1 Facebook post. It was written some 12 years ago, but never published, by a dear man, the recently departed journalist Uri Elitzur. The gist of his article was that once one side in a war attacks the other side’s civilians, they can no longer morally claim a special status for their own civilians.

Go ahead, ask a Hebrew speaking friend to translate it for you, they’ll confirm this is what my Facebook post was about. But you’ll find not a trace of that in Resnick’s account. Perhaps it’s his own ignorance of the Hebrew language. After all, he got the text from Electronic Intifada, a website dedicated to daily and hourly vilification of my country.

All Resnick had to do to make Elitzur’s sober, legally minded discussion sound like a speech made by Hitler himself, was to cherry pick words out of context. A call for the indiscriminate killing of children is a terrible thing. But what if the statement was that any time you attack our children, you’re exposing your own people to the same fate? Still unsettling, but rational when you consider their civilian population is actively supporting and participating in their war and terror efforts. It’s not a call for indiscriminate murder.

And then Resnick turned to character assassination. He cited an attack on me by Haaretz. They said I was “representative of an ideology unembarrassed by its racism.”

Haaretz, unfortunately, may look like the NY Times, but it is far from being a liberal, curious newspaper in the Anglo Saxon tradition. Expecting Haaretz to write about a political opponent like myself in an honest, informative—if critical—manner, is a little like expecting Gideon Resnick to offer an unbiased, honest citation from a pro-Zionist post.

And so, when Haaretz, read by a mere 30,000 Israelis, give or take, says I’m racist – I’d look for a more reliable source.

Then, in a second article, Resnick also sneaks in the dumb female bit: “the 38-year-old Shaked is also frequently the target of subtle sexism, at best referred to as ‘a young and pretty secular woman.’” And the citation is from – you guessed it, Haaretz. In fact, Electronic Intifada and Haaretz are Resnick’s only sources, other than his brutalization of the Elitzur piece.

Resnick’s distortions aside, the fact is that international pressure on Israel has not yielded peace because Israel is not starting the wars.

1. Hamas and the Palestinian Authority are engaged in terrorism, one overtly, the other in a supportive role. Money is being transferred from the PA to the families of suicide bombers and convicted murderers in Israeli jails. The pay is actually based on the number and severity of the murders committed. The more gruesome the murder, the larger the number of Israeli victims, the higher the monthly reward.

Can anyone deny it?

2. Palestinian education today is based on violence and incitement against Israelis and Jews. Palestinian textbooks and Palestinian media ceaselessly promote Jew hatred. They praise Jew murderers. Their heroes and celebrities are Jew killers. They name streets and traffic circles after killers of Jewish children.

Can anyone deny it?

At the same time, the murder of Jerusalem teenager Mohammed Abu Khdeir was immediately condemned by all of Israel’s society.

As a Knesset Member, I can assure you his murderers, once convicted for their terrible crime, will remain in prison for the rest of their lives.


We will certainly not name streets after them.

3. In Israel we protect our citizens from incoming Hamas missiles.

Hamas, on the other hand, positions its missile launchers in the midst of civilian enclaves, using women and children as human shields against Israeli raids.

Just the other day, the world watched a Hamas spokesman admitting they instructed civilians not to leave their Gaza homes during air strikes, in order to protect those arsenals of weapons.

Each Palestinian rocket coming out of Gaza represents two separate war crimes: one for purposely targeting a civilian population in Israel, the other for launching from within their own civilian population.

Not many journalists bother to share this information with their readers. It confuses the narrative, messes with the David and Goliath scenario.

Our residents in southern Israel have endured these missiles for more than 14 years. Many children and teens have known only life in a war zone. This past week, all our urban centers were targeted. How would you expect our government to react? How would you want your own government to deal with a similar onslaught on your neighborhood? What do you want us to do? Lie down and die?

The late Uri Elitzur wrote so eloquently in the article I cited on Facebook:

“The laws of war acknowledge that it is impossible to avoid hitting enemy civilians. Those laws did not condemn the British airforce for firebombing and completely destroying the German city of Dresden, or US planes for wrecking the cities of Poland and half of Hungary’s Budapest, whose residents had never done anything against America. Those sites had to be destroyed in order to win the war against evil.”

Israel’s fight against Hamas terrorism is similar to NATO’s war on Al-Qaeda terrorism. Moreover, Israel is the only state who is notifying civilians to leave their homes before an attack by texting them.

Israel has no agenda against Arab civilians in Gaza, just as the US has none against Arabs in any of the countries where it’s conducting its now 13-year war to preserve civilization from violent barbarism.

We want a good life, with peace and prosperity for all the eight million plus people living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.

Indeed, if the Arab society enjoys prosperity, so will Jewish society, and vice versa. let me be very clear I condemn any kind of assault against innocent civilians, whether they are Jews or Arabs.

But in order to get there, they must stop firing rockets at us.

The madness of Hamas continued yesterday after Israel embraced an Egyptian call for a ceasefire. Hamas rejected the offer, and as of now has been shooting at all over Israel with renewed vigor.

Israelis are so used to the scene where we offer our hand in peace and the other side reacts by trying to cut it off, that we’re not even surprised. What does surprise us, time and again, are the voices in the West, like Resnick’s, which pin the blame for this madness on us. As in that famous quip: “It all started when Israel retaliated.”

As an aside, I’ll point out that a week later The Daily Beast finally removed one blatant lie from Resnick’s original article, where he accused me of being the author of statements I never made.

But this correction is too little, too late, the damage has already been done.

And so, you must ask yourselves, do you really want to continue getting your news reports about my country from writers who view the truth as little more than a needless inconvenience?

Interesting. Anyone who speaks hebrew, can you tell if this is accurate?

https://www.facebook.com/ayelet.benshaul.shaked/posts/596568183794945
 

werks

Banned
Yeah, I think I'm just about bored now. Whitechocolatekrispies was right. Far too many posts that attack Israel for no reasons.



I said civilians die in war and you responded like you had no idea what it was and you horribly quoted it out of context.

This is the stuff that has me bored/slightly angered. I'm being made a villain for other users enjoyment. If someone else takes over, good luck.

So you feel bad for yourself because you are being picked on, but hundreds of Palestinians are getting slaughtered and it's "stuff happens". Since you don't give a fuck about hundreds of Palestinians dying, why should we give a fuck about your feelings.
 

maharg

idspispopd
Not that Israel is not at fault here, but it's hard to have any sympathy for Hamas when they basically use the population as human shield.

No one is asking anyone to have sympathy for Hamas, but for the civilian population of Palestine. To argue that the two are the same is to say that all Palestinians are terrorists, which is just another way to dehumanize them and justify the occupation.
 
No one is asking anyone to have sympathy for Hamas, but for the civilian population of Palestine. To argue that the two are the same is to say that all Palestinians are terrorists, which is just another way to dehumanize them and justify the occupation.

First off, I wasn't making or implying that Hamas = Palestinians.

Second, Palestinians should have probably not elected Hamas, especially if they knew what they were getting into ultimately.
 

zeroOman

Member
Not that Israel is not at fault here, but it's hard to have any sympathy for Hamas when they basically use the population as human shield.

Yeah they should go in the open air... in the afternoon so Israel can see them better when send the bomb to them....
 

maharg

idspispopd
First off, I wasn't making or implying that Hamas = Palestinians.

Coming into a thread where people are asking you to have sympathy for innocent dying Palestinian citizens and talking about how you have no sympathy for Hamas definitely implies some kind of equating. Who's asking you to sympathize with Hamas?

Second, Palestinians should have probably not elected Hamas, especially if they knew what they were getting into ultimately.

Wow.
 
Yet every single one of your posts for the last 5-6 pages have openly attacked Israel under the guise they actually want to kill civilians, while completely downplaying, ignoring and defending the extremely well documented and proven tactic of Hamas' propaganda and lying.

You can laugh all you like at Israeli pitiful propaganda, however they have ten fold more credibility that Hamas has. Yet you ignore this jumping on every image, every tweet, every fb post as if pure fact. Hamas are a lying propaganda machine and you do not acknowledge this with any of their claims.

Hamas wants this invasion because they want picture of dead children to post. That is a fact. It is their primary tactic to fight against Israel. Dead children and dead families and dead Palestinians. That is what they want.

That is who they are and that is why the world ignores their plight. They are the reason Israel responds, they are the reason Israel bombs, they are the reason people die. They know this and they want this. Dead Palestinians.

Yet you only want to call Israel out. It's disgusting.

Israel has a right to defend itself. To defend itself against lethal rockets. It doesn't matter how infrequent they hit their targets. All it takes it one. One rocket is a declaration of war and in war people die. This is a fact.

Hamas does not have the right to terrorise civilian populations because of a territorial dispute. Settlements are bad. But firing rockets into Israel are on a whole new level of international criminality. The Palestinian people have more than enough support to stop settlements in the West Bank. But their cause is flattened by violent acts against civilians. End of story.

Settlements do not justify terrorist behaviour. There is never a justification for terrorism. It is utterly despicable people in this thread are trying to justify the indiscriminate attack and attempted murder of a civilian population.

And no targeted military action from Israel is not terrorism. It is war, and in war people die. Israel has a uniformed army. Israel attempts to follow the Geneva convention, it follows unprecedented tactics to minimise civilian casualties, yet innocent people will still die. This is a fact of war and if Hamas is more than happy to start one, then they share just as much of the blame for their deaths. So yeah Israel royally fucked up by killing those children on the beach. Yet I only see condemnation for Israel, never once is Hamas blamed for constantly dragging their land into conflict.
Pretty much nailed it.

The way I see it, if Hamas hadn't abducted and murdered those Israeli teens and at the same time launched their rocket attacks against Israel and thus provoking Israel into military action, all of those dead men, women and children would still be alive.

Hamas is the greatest enemy of the Palestine people. Not Israel.
 

Linkhero1

Member
Pretty much nailed it.

The way I see it, if Hamas hadn't abducted and murdered those Israeli teens and at the same time launched their rocket attacks against Israel and thus provoking Israel into military action, all of those dead men, women and children would still be alive.

Hamas is the greatest enemy of the Palestine people. Not Israel.
Oh. I didn't realize they have conclusive evidence that it was Hamas. Link please?
 
Coming into a thread where people are asking you to have sympathy for innocent dying Palestinian citizens and talking about how you have no sympathy for Hamas definitely implies some kind of equating. Who's asking you to sympathize with Hamas?



Wow.

I have sympathy for innocent Palestinians, but I also have sympathy for Israelis who are just trying to defend themselves. I also condemn the excessive use of force by the IDF (despite their best efforts to land clean hits) and the dishonest tactics used by Hamas.
 
First off, I wasn't making or implying that Hamas = Palestinians.

Second, Palestinians should have probably not elected Hamas, especially if they knew what they were getting into ultimately.

Al-Qaida: "America should probably not have elected Bush/Clinton/Bush."
 

LNBL

Member
First off, I wasn't making or implying that Hamas = Palestinians.

Second, Palestinians should have probably not elected Hamas, especially if they knew what they were getting into ultimately.

What is it exactly they knew Hamas was getting them into?
Do you know why Hamas was elected and why the people chose to elect them?
 
I'm sure many if not most of those who voted for Hamas now regret their decision. We conveniently forget the reign of terror Hamas has enacted on its own people. Most articles about the poor boys who were killed on the beach leave out the part where the parents equally blame Hamas and one mentions that ten of their family members were murdered by Hamas due to their support of other factions. It isn't fair to say Palestinians are getting what they voted for, it's unlikely Hamas would win another election now the extent of their disregard for non-Hamas Palestinians has been made so abundantly clear.
 

Zen

Banned
Pretty much nailed it.

The way I see it, if Hamas hadn't abducted and murdered those Israeli teens and at the same time launched their rocket attacks against Israel and thus provoking Israel into military action, all of those dead men, women and children would still be alive.

Hamas is the greatest enemy of the Palestine people. Not Israel.

THERE IS NO PROOF THAT HAMAS WAS INVOLVED IN ANY WAY WITH THE DISAPPEARANCE OF THOSE TEENS EVEN THE US STATE DEPARTMENT SAYS THAT THEY CLAIM IS BASELESS
 
From Norman Finkelstein.

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/7/15/after_palestinian_unity_deal_did_israel

As to how we got to where we are, the general context is perfectly obvious for anyone who wants to see it. A unity government was formed between the PA and Hamas. Netanyahu was enraged at this unity government. It called on the U.S., it called on the EU, to break relations with the Palestinian Authority. Surprisingly, the United States said, "No, we’re going to give this unity government time. We’ll see whether it works or not." Then the EU came in and said it will also give the unity government time. "Let’s see. Let’s see what happens."

At this point, Netanyahu virtually went berserk, and he was determined to break up the unity government. When there was the abduction of the three Israeli teenagers, he found his pretext. There isn’t a scratch of evidence, not a jot of evidence, that Hamas had anything to do with the kidnappings and the killings. Nobody even knows what the motive was, to this point. Even if you look at the July 3rd report of Human Rights Watch, they said nobody knows who was behind the abductions. Even the U.S. State Department, on July 7th, there was a news conference, and the U.S. State Department said, "We don’t have hard evidence about who was responsible." But that had nothing to do with it. It was just a pretext. The pretext was to go into the West Bank, attack Hamas, arrest 700 members of Hamas, blow up two homes, carry on these rampages, these ransackings, and to try to evoke a reaction from Hamas.

This is what Israel always does. Anybody who knows the history, it’s what the Israeli political scientist, the mainstream political scientist—name was Avner Yaniv—he said it’s these Palestinian "peace offensives." Whenever the Palestinians seem like they are trying to reach a settlement of the conflict, which the unity government was, at that point Israel does everything it can to provoke a violent reaction—in this case, from Hamas—break up the unity government, and Israel has its pretext. "We can’t negotiate with the Palestinian Authority because they only represent some of the Palestinian people; they don’t represent all of the Palestinian people." And so Netanyahu does what he always does—excuse me, what Israeli governments always do: You keep pounding the Palestinians, in this case pounding Hamas, pounding Hamas, trying to evoke a reaction, and when the reaction comes—well, when the reaction comes, he said, "We can’t deal with these people. They’re terrorists."
 

badb0y

Member
Self-defense?

You don't get to claim self-defense when you are the oppressor and constantly build settlements in Palestinian lands. You don't get to claim self-defense when the blood of the innocents is much greater on your head than on your opponents.

Zionists keep asking which country would tolerate rocket fire on their cities but I would like to ask them a better question. Which country would tolerate their land being taken over by another country? Can you imagine if Canada or Mexico tried to build settlements on American soil? They would get flattened within the hour.
 

Yagharek

Member
Pretty much nailed it.

The way I see it, if Hamas hadn't abducted and murdered those Israeli teens and at the same time launched their rocket attacks against Israel and thus provoking Israel into military action, all of those dead men, women and children would still be alive.

Hamas is the greatest enemy of the Palestine people. Not Israel.

Oh please, this is bullshit.

Israel is the party with the strongest defensive position and strongest military. They have the "power" to bring meaningful negotiations to the table that might actually lead to some peace. Instead they keep bombing kids on beaches and increasing illegal settlements.

If Israel wanted to act rationally and not aggressively, they could end this without needing to invade. If you give the Palestinians what is rightfully theirs, you end the reason for them to continue fighting. Instead, Israel keeps on acting like a colonial power and then plays the victim card.
 

params7

Banned
Second, Palestinians should have probably not elected Hamas, especially if they knew what they were getting into ultimately.


The hypocrisy in this post.. How about Israel elects a government that bans landgrabs, after they evacuate and return what they've already taken?
 
Oh please, this is bullshit.

Israel is the party with the strongest defensive position and strongest military. They have the "power" to bring meaningful negotiations to the table that might actually lead to some peace. Instead they keep bombing kids on beaches and increasing illegal settlements.
Hamas has no interest in peace, of course they would not listen to such things.

If Israel wanted to act rationally and not aggressively, they could end this without needing to invade. If you give the Palestinians what is rightfully theirs, you end the reason for them to continue fighting. Instead, Israel keeps on acting like a colonial power and then plays the victim card.
So much ignorant Israel-hate, so little with any truth to it, as usual here. Israel acts entirely rationally and defends its population. Every nation that has any ability to does this, and saying that Israel can't do what all other nations do is an absurd double standard. All of the Gaza wars are defensive actions against Hamas terrorism. Hamas, Israel-haters always are quick to ignore, has a main goal of killing all the Jews; they aren't too successful at it, but have and will keep trying. You cannot have a rational discussion with such people. Hamas is not fighting Israel because of the blockade and military actions -- it's entirely the other way around, those actions exist because of Hamas's violent hate. Hamas would want to fight Israel regardless of any blockades. In the past there used to be a lot of terrorism (mostly suicide bombers) from the West Bank too, but fortunately that has faded out, helped by the security wall, the Palestinian Authority, and Hamas being pushed out of the West Bank. I only hope that it goes away in Gaza too.

I would say that Netanyahu needs to put some effort into negotiation as well -- the idea of doing more to encourage Gazans to abandon Hamas (by treating the West Bank better, etc.) is probably a good one -- but Hamas itself cannot be reasoned with.

Pretty much nailed it.

The way I see it, if Hamas hadn't abducted and murdered those Israeli teens and at the same time launched their rocket attacks against Israel and thus provoking Israel into military action, all of those dead men, women and children would still be alive.

Hamas is the greatest enemy of the Palestine people. Not Israel.
Entirely 100% right.
 

Zen

Banned
H
Entirely 100% right.

If by 100% right you mean to say that the above post is based on falsehoods that you either are unaware of or do not care about then sure.

Hamas has no interest in peace, of course they would not listen to such things.


So much ignorant Israel-hate, so little with any truth to it, as usual here. Israel acts entirely rationally and defends its population. Every nation that has any ability to does this, and saying that Israel can't do what all other nations do is an absurd double standard. All of the Gaza wars are defensive actions against Hamas terrorism. Hamas, Israel-haters always are quick to ignore, has a main goal of killing all the Jews; they aren't too successful at it, but have and will keep trying. You cannot have a rational discussion with such people. Hamas is not fighting Israel because of the blockade and military actions -- it's entirely the other way around, those actions exist because of Hamas's violent hate. Hamas would want to fight Israel regardless of any blockades. In the past there used to be a lot of terrorism (mostly suicide bombers) from the West Bank too, but fortunately that has faded out, helped by the security wall, the Palestinian Authority, and Hamas being pushed out of the West Bank. I only hope that it goes away in Gaza too.

You mean the same Hamas that agreed to the unity government, limiting their power, and in agreement with the terms set out by the US and EU?
 

Codeblue

Member
Hamas = Bin Laden in my mind ... both are terrorists
Isreal = USA ... both entered someone's land as retribution for terrorist acts and to eliminate the threat

I'm not sure you want to go with that comparison. The USA's retribution for terrorist acts is something most people view as regrettable, impulsive, and, at times, baseless.

Or maybe that's the perfect analogy.
 
If by 100% right you mean to say that the above post is based on falsehoods that you either are unaware of or do not care about then sure.
No, everything in that post is entirely true, whether you are able to admit it or not, considering how much you must hate Israel if you'd actually question how horrible Hamas is. (Of course, given that Hamas is entirely responsible for the wars which cause all this chaos and death I'd think that anyone who wanted fewer Palestinians to die would also oppose Hamas, but there's no reasoning with Israel haters, clearly.)

You mean the same Hamas that agreed to the unity government, limiting their power, and in agreement with the terms set out by the US and EU?
I think the US government had the right on this -- Israel should have let it go forward, very watchful for any signs of Hamas gains in the West Bank but letting it happen in the hopes that perhaps it could crack Hamas's grip on Gaza while not giving them the West Bank (a plausible outcome). However, Netanyahu's refusal to do that is understandable -- letting Hamas and the PA unite is an obvious risk, if it led to Hamas gaining any kind of position in the West Bank!

Also of course, one of the reasons why Hamas was forced to start those negotiations is because of the pressure from Israel's blockade, which is hurting Hamas quite a lot, particularly now that Egypt is now unfriendly to them again. Without the blockade you probably would not see the "unity" government, though this Gaza war shows how really Hamas still rules Gaza, not the PA.

I'm not sure you want to go with that comparison. The USA's retribution for terrorist acts is something most people view as regrettable, impulsive, and, at times, baseless.

Or maybe that's the perfect analogy.
No, the Afghan war was defensible and the right thing to do. We obviously could not ignore the people protecting the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11. The Iraq War was not, but that was never really about terrorism anyway -- that was just an excuse Bush used to push his illegal, ill-advised invasion.
 

LNBL

Member
It's like i'm waking up every morning, only i'm repeating every day. The discussions being held here are still the same we had in the first day of this thread. Disputes have been confronted with sources, yet we are in a constant circle of repeating ourselves.

The only difference there actually is are the number of deaths that is rising every day.
 

LNBL

Member
Selena Gomez sending a message to her 11 million followers:
lyfejn.jpg

Hope she does not delete it


Also this youtube video is of the protest in Haifa by Palestinians that I posted about earlier. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMXcdb9STaM
It's hard to tell from this video what is causing the Israeli police to remove te protestors so forcefully.
 

P. Fembot

Banned
It looks like a regular protest that could have taken place anywhere in the world. I don't see Israeli soldiers using too much force, compared to any other police force anywhere.

Someone cut their finger...

A few guys got arrested...

Nothing incredibly fascist.
 

Razgreez

Member
It's like i'm waking up every morning, only i'm repeating every day. The discussions being held here are still the same we had in the first day of this thread. Disputes have been confronted with sources, yet we are in a constant circle of repeating ourselves.

The only difference there actually is are the number of deaths that is rising every day.

I'll paraphrase John Pilger's sentiments in saying that the most important things is to keep the conversation and information, as opposed to the hate, dehumanization and misinformation, going. The media's attention is easily diverted away from the atrocities committed by the zionist oppressors "and their right to defend themselves by any means necessary" against those they are oppressing. Offense (and in this case expansion) is after all the best form of defense

Just as empathizing with the oppressor is to support the oppressor so is openly empathizing with the oppressed to support the oppressed and there can be no doubt who are the oppressed and who are the oppressors in this lop-sided conflict

Lest we forget that the ANC members who help liberate South Africa from apartheid were only removed from the terrorism watch list in 2008. A mere, and rather embarrassing, 6 years ago. The similarities between the way they were painted, with all their faults (past and present), and hamas is being painted, with all its faults (past and present), is entirely uncanny (hamas has yet to be given the opportunity to govern the people who elected them so i reserve judgement until such time)

The model for resolving this conflict is there. It is clearly planned out and has proven itself successful however it required then, as it requires now, for the world to simply do the right thing
 
Hamas has no interest in peace, of course they would not listen to such things.
So when Hamas said they agree to 67 borders, they were lying? Or do you say 67 borders are so beyond gone that Hamas might as well want the whole of Israel? Also I want to know whether you knew all the abhorrent things plo said and did before they signed oslo 1.
 

Ashes

Banned
So when Hamas said they agree to 67 borders, they were lying? Or do you say 67 borders are so beyond gone that Hamas might as well want the whole of Israel? Also I want to know whether you knew all the abhorrent things plo said and did before they signed oslo 1.

I put to you that they were.* This idea that Hamas is kinda okay and trustworthy doesn't really relate to their actions. Or am I wrong here?

*in relation to the post you were quoting, and not necessarily because I think we should bring the 67 borders debate onto the bargaining table. I think that debate is over for the Palestinians.

Edit: Owing to the nature of the thread, I might as well add that Israel are the bigger dicks here.
 
So why isn't the PA being bombed and hit by tank shells right now?
You said Israel needs a peace partner who doesn't shoot rockets into Israel, in order to attain a Palestine state. I pointed to PA in west bank. You said "Well, Israel is not shooting rockets into west bank". So I'm led to believe that "peace" for Israel is a situation where west bank remains a perpetual occupied territory that rolls over and plays fetch with Israel, all the while Israel keeps stealing the land from underneath. Is the price PA pays for diplomacy is "no artillery strike from IDF today, and Israel stole another bit of land. Today is a good day"?
 
Keep the spirit up for every activist in the world and on GAF.

You might get tired of the neverending debates of who is right and who is not, of the same questions and answers in the thread, on news, and on social media, but know that public perception is changing radically, and it is in our favour.

Keep the good fight up. Keep a cool head and keep protesting, increase awareness, show your support physically with shirts, stickers and so on, make the support for the cause visible in the public.

This fight cannot be won with sticks and stones, but with protest and words! Meet up to your local rallies everytime, show that the death of our brothers and sisters in humanity is not in vain.
 

Razgreez

Member
I put to you that they were.* This idea that Hamas is kinda okay and trustworthy doesn't really relate to their actions. Or am I wrong here?

*in relation to the post you were quoting, and not necessarily because I think we should bring the 67 borders debate onto the bargaining table. I think that debate is over for the Palestinians.

Edit: Owing to the nature of the thread, I might as well add that Israel are the bigger dicks here.

Seriously? Nobody's asking you nor anybody to somehow take sides in this thread. The "**** israel" posts for example don't contribute anything. But there's a clear distinction between highlighting facts, as some are doing, and spewing line after line of baseless, and in my opinion rather disgusting, recycled propaganda, as a specific few are doing. By adding that edit you've basically deligitimsed what you were trying to point out and belittled every other poster in this thread by simplifying it into a discussion of simply palestine vs israel. The situation is deserving of far more deiberation
 

Ashes

Banned
Seriously? Nobody's asking you nor anybody to somehow take sides in this thread. The "**** israel" posts for example don't contribute anything. But there's a clear distinction between highlighting facts, as some are doing, and spewing line after line of baseless, and in my opinion rather disgusting, recycled propaganda, as a specific few are doing. By adding that edit you've basically deligitimsed what you were trying to point out and belittled every other poster in this thread by simplifying it into a discussion of simply palestine vs israel. The situation is deserving of far more deiberation

It is unnecessarily complicated. It is a question of Palestine vs Israel.


edit: And one of incomprehensible immaturity at that.
 

P. Fembot

Banned
The Palestinian civilians should overthrow Hamas. They don't need to be politically led by a terrorist group.

They need to attempt to stop their government's acts of constant rocket war against Israel.

They are a marginalized group, yes, and Israel is causing way too many civilian casualties, but FFS elect a leader that does not ensure more casualties.

Stop the missiles from Hamas into Israel should be the first step. You can't 'fight the good fight' if you are just as much an aggressor as those you are pointing the finger at.
 

Opto

Banned
The Palestinian civilians should overthrow Hamas. They don't need to be politically led by a terrorist group.

They need to attempt to stop their government's acts of constant rocket war against Israel.

They are a marginalized group, yes, and Israel is causing way too many civilian casualties, but FFS elect a leader that does not ensure more casualties.

Stop the missiles from Hamas into Israel should be the first step. You can't 'fight the good fight' if you are just as much an aggressor as those you are pointing the finger at.

Hamas unfortunately is a major provider for relief in Gaza. They fund schools and hospitals and other services. They aren't just a bunch of dicks that run on the ticket of "fire rockets into Israel," they have many functions. Gaza isn't exactly a resource rich or advanced area. Opportunity is low,especially with Israel controlling what goes into the area (seriously, a cola company had to close down because Israel deemed the CO2 tanks as potential weapons) and those in Gaza see little alternative to Hamas without sacrificing what little they get.
 

P. Fembot

Banned
Hamas unfortunately is a major provider for relief in Gaza. They fund schools and hospitals and other services. They aren't just a bunch of dicks that run on the ticket of "fire rockets into Israel," they have many functions. Gaza isn't exactly a resource rich or advanced area. Opportunity is low,especially with Israel controlling what goes into the area (seriously, a cola company had to close down because Israel deemed the CO2 tanks as potential weapons) and those in Gaza see little alternative to Hamas without sacrificing what little they get.

Agreed, but it doesn't seem like enough of an excuse to offset their rockets into Israel.

I'm sure there are other parties that could help Palestinians without constantly attempting to start a war with Israel.
 

Quotient

Member
I haven't been following the posts today so this isn't targeted at anyone. I can understand someone being anti-Israeli - there is no doubt that Israel has done some disgusting action, you can also be pro-Palestinian - I don't see why you would be anything else. I can not see any reason why anyone would support Hamas. They have never been for the Palestinian people.
 

Ashes

Banned
Agreed, but it doesn't seem like enough of an excuse to offset their rockets into Israel.

Well, officially, they [hamas] are resisting occupation.

If the US was occupied by Israel, wouldn't they resist? In fact, what country wouldn't resist?

Anyways, that defence system [Israel's] all but nullifies the rocket attacks.
 
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