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[Phoenix RISING]

Suicide rates have increased in nearly every state over the past two decades, and half of the states have seen suicide rates go up more than 30 percent.

Suicide is a major public health issue, accounting for nearly 45,000 deaths in 2016 alone. That is why the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta decided to take a comprehensive look at suicides from 1999 to 2016.

Often, the suicide seemed to happen without warning: 54 percent of the people who killed themselves didn't have a previously known mental health issue. "Instead, these folks were suffering from other issues, such as relationship problems, substance misuse, physical health problems, job or financial problems, and recent crises or things that were coming up in their lives that they were anticipating," says Stone.

That means any public health effort to reduce suicides can't solely focus on those who have reached out for help. It has to be paired with measures that would make suicidal people less likely to die even if they never went to see a doctor.

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/04/6162...aws-reduce-murders-red-flag-laws-cut-suicides

The report also cites the need to reduce "access to lethal means" but without explicitly discussing firearms or controversial issues such as gun control legislation. Asked whether that was a deliberate omission, because of the political climate surrounding gun control, Stone said that suicide rates have been increasing across all methods.

"So it's not just about firearms, it's also about other methods of suicide such as hanging, suffocation, poisoning and the like," she said. "We are concerned with all aspects of suicide prevention, including access to lethal means, and so we do include that in a comprehensive approach to suicide prevention."

But Anestis believes that it's important to not beat around the bush when it comes to guns and to talk about the importance of things like setting waiting periods for purchase, and storing guns locked and unloaded.

"American suicide is predominantly a firearm issue. Anytime we want to resolve something that involves firearms, we've need to talk about firearms explicitly," he says. "The conversation about firearms and suicide doesn't have to be a debate about the Second Amendment. It could be a debate about where can we find some common ground that doesn't simply involve only talking about people with mental illnesses, because as this paper shows, that's not going to get the job done."

Research shows that the decision to attempt suicide is often made quickly, in an impulsive way, says Robert Gebbia, the head of the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.

"You may be thinking about it over time, but that moment when you actually make an attempt is a very short window," he explains. "If you could make it harder to make that attempt by not having access to the means, often what happens is the feelings will pass, it gives people time for someone to intervene and get them help, so that is a really important preventative step that can be done. And there's good research to support that."

CDC Report


Also, men are more successful at committing suicide on average because they are more likely to use a gun.

I expect suicide rates to continue to rise given America's reticence to address the issue of healthcare availability and affordability as well as its distribution of firearms in particular.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Another reason some don’t feel the increase of mass shootings are because of guns. But rather mental health.

Newer generations seem to either have completely different priorities.

Owning your own home, car, and providing for your family was the American dream back in the day. That middle class life.

Now it seems like that’s not good enough. And that life isn’t ultra easy to achieve for many, it’s an incredible climb for many.

 

[Catphish]

I'd be curious to know how many people who commit suicide are on psych meds. When I learned how many school shooters were on prescription psych meds, my mind was fucking blown.

 

[manfestival]

CDC Report


Also, men are more successful at committing suicide on average because they are more likely to use a gun.

I expect suicide rates to continue to rise given America's reticence to address the issue of healthcare availability and affordability as well as its distribution of firearms in particular.

Either way, the mental state of the United states is clearly in a problematic position.

 

[Dunki]

CDC Report


Also, men are more successful at committing suicide on average because they are more likely to use a gun.

I expect suicide rates to continue to rise given America's reticence to address the issue of healthcare availability and affordability as well as its distribution of firearms in particular.

Also let us not forget that white men have the highest rates by far. Being constantly bombared how bad their race and gender is will not make people happy but rather depressive. Ignoring their problems and even labeling them as racist and sexist when they speak up by a certain group or political ideology is not making this better.

 

[gohepcat]

Another reason some don’t feel the increase of mass shootings are because of guns. But rather mental health.

Newer generations seem to either have completely different priorities.

Owning your own home, car, and providing for your family was the American dream back in the day. That middle class life.

Now it seems like that’s not good enough.

???? This implies that people are now expecting more than this? The middle class has been decimated and the gulf between the rich and the middle class has widened to a big yawning chasm. The average price for home in my neighborhood is $1.3 million dollars.

We fucked over, and still fuck over our kids.

 

[infinitys_7th]

CDC Report


Also, men are more successful at committing suicide on average because they are more likely to use a gun.

I expect suicide rates to continue to rise given America's reticence to address the issue of healthcare availability and affordability as well as its distribution of firearms in particular.

Gun ownership has been steady, so it is not possible for it to cause an increase in suicides.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

???? This implies that people are now expecting more than this? The middle class has been decimated and the gulf between the rich and the middle class has widened to a big yawning chasm. The average price for home in my neighborhood is $1.3 million dollars.

We fucked over, and still fuck over our kids.

Yes people expect way more now. They also seem to confuse wants with needs. People are less happy now with more than others had before, but they still feel like they are lacking. Of course imo.

 

[Future]

???? This implies that people are now expecting more than this? The middle class has been decimated and the gulf between the rich and the middle class has widened to a big yawning chasm. The average price for home in my neighborhood is $1.3 million dollars.

We fucked over, and still fuck over our kids.

According to that chart though, locations where home ownership is probably the highest price wise (California, New York) have the lowest suicide rates. Texas is also pretty low.

Utah and Montana are really high though. Curious as to why. Article doesn’t break down any ideas of why suicide rates are the way they are. If it’s about health care, is there worse healthcare in those states? If it’s about guns, why is Texas so low?

 

[infinitys_7th]

According to that chart though, locations where home ownership is probably the highest price wise (California, New York) have the lowest suicide rates. Texas is also pretty low.

Utah and Montana are really high though. Curious as to why. Article doesn’t break down any ideas of why suicide rates are the way they are. If it’s about health care, is there worse healthcare in those states? If it’s about guns, why is Texas so low?

It's not about guns - that's politicization. In Japan, which has similar issues to the US in terms of pressures to succeed and a much higher suicide rate, people just throw themselves in front of trains and walk into the woods.

Basic input-output logic says that if A stays constant while B increases, A is not causing B to increase.

 

[gohepcat]

Yes people expect way more now. They also seem to confuse wants with needs. People are less happy now with more than others had before, but they still feel like they are lacking. Of course imo.

This does not jive with any reality I see around me. Our parents were able to purchase a house in their 20s. Go to college with minimal debt. Start a family in their 20s.

All of the statistics bear this out too. Young people are working harder and getting less. To add insult to injury they also have people like you saying “LOL they’re lazy”

 

[Naudi]

Also let us not forget that white men have the highest rates by far. Being constantly bombared how bad their race and gender is will not make people happy but rather depressive. Ignoring their problems and even labeling them as racist and sexist when they speak up by a certain group or political ideology is not making this better.

White fragility. Poor white men.

 

[Dunki]

White fragility. Poor white men.

So if this is your response when the sucide rate of white men is on an all time high and far far beyond everyone else. Why do you think I should care about your struggles? I guess you are black or at least non white.

Why do you think I should care then? Because you are the victim? give me a break. Unlike you I care about everyone who suffers. I do not differentiate between gender or race. I do not care if you are a male rape victim or a female rape victim.

This is what I was talking about when you make everything about race you already have become a racist something you despise.
Phrases like this have lead to your president and now you have to deal with it But with this kind of reaction do not expect any empathy from me about your problems.

 

[i_am_ben]

Also let us not forget that white men have the highest rates by far. Being constantly bombared how bad their race and gender is will not make people happy but rather depressive. Ignoring their problems and even labeling them as racist and sexist when they speak up by a certain group or political ideology is not making this better.

White fragility. Poor white men.

So if this is your response when the sucide rate of white men is on an all time high and far far beyond everyone else. Why do you think I should care about your struggles? I guess you are black or at least non white.

Why do you think I should care then? Because you are the victim? give me a break. Unlike you I care about everyone who suffers. I do not differentiate between gender or race. I do not care if you are a male rape victim or a female rape victim.

This is what I was talking about when you make everything about race you already have become a racist something you despise.

I don't think we really need to turn this thread into a war about how white men are being oppressed by Social Justice Warriors. There are like 90 other threads on neogaf for that.

 

[Future]

It's not about guns - that's politicization. In Japan, which has similar issues to the US in terms of pressures to succeed and a much higher suicide rate, people just throw themselves in front of trains and walk into the woods.

Basic input-output logic says that if A stays constant while B increases, A is not causing B to increase.

The article was musing that the success rate is higher when you use a gun.

But what I was getting at is that suicide rates are vastly different across America. The big states that everyone probably outside the US knows all have low rates. These states are representations of both political sides, high costs, diversity, etc. So I am curious why the rates are much higher elsewhere

 

[Champomade]

White fragility. Poor white men.

Hopefully this kind of hateful comment is not OK here anymore.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

This does not jive with any reality I see around me. Our parents were able to purchase a house in their 20s. Go to college with minimal debt. Start a family in their 20s.

All of the statistics bear this out too. Young people are working harder and getting less. To add insult to injury they also have people like you saying “LOL they’re lazy”

Your parents most likely didn't go into debt for shit they didn't need.

They didn't pay monthly to have a iPhone and data they burned through watching world star.
They didn't pay to eat meals out at high frequency.
They made their cup of coffee at home for $10 a week, not $10 a day.
They didn't spend their free time or break time on Facebook.
They didn't put so much time into their social status.
They didn't need a BMW or multiple cars.

The American Dream for many was Middle Class life. Now it's celebrity life or my life sucks.

 

[Dunki]

I don't think we really need to turn this thread into a war about how white men are being oppressed by Social Justice Warriors. There are like 90 other threads on neogaf for that.

Its not about SjW it is about people being obviously racist because they can not stand the fact that these people they seem to hate so much also suffer in this cruel world.

 

[highrider]

White fragility. Poor white men.

That didn’t take long.

 

[Future]

Its not about SjW it is about people being obviously racist because they can not stand the fact that these people they seem to hate so much also suffer in this cruel world.

But why is this a perpetual GAF debate. This topic was about suicide. The article didn’t mention anything about this. What research is showing that white male suicide has anything to do with anything you are bringing into this thread

 

[Dunki]

But why is this a perpetual GAF debate. This topic was about suicide. The article didn’t mention anything about this. What research is showing that white male suicide has anything to do with anything you are bringing into this thread

Wait a moment me mentioning a fact that white men have by far the highest suicide rates is not about this topic? To actually analyze this issue you to know about who, when, why etc does it.

To me it is one of the biggest reasons because white men living under so much pressure under so much stigmatization etc that they do not know any other way anymore than to kill themselves.

 

[infinitys_7th]

White fragility. Poor white men.

Why are you racist?

 

[i_am_ben]

Its not about SjW it is about people being obviously racist because they can not stand the fact that these people they seem to hate so much also suffer in this cruel world.

Wait a moment me mentioning a fact that white men have by far the highest suicide rates is not about this topic? To actually analyze this issue you to know about who, when, why etc does it.

To me it is one of the biggest reasons because white men living under so much pressure under so much stigmatization etc that they do not know any other way anymore than to kill themselves.

Its fine to talk about the horrific suicide rates of white males. More people should be talking about it, and how despite promises to address the issue, authorities are moving unacceptably slow.

Unfortunately, however, your initial comments just launched into one of your spiels.

 

[Dunki]

Its fine to talk about the horrific suicide rates of white males. More people should be talking about it, and how despite promises to address the issue, authorities are moving unacceptably slow.

Unfortunately, however, your initial comments just launched into one of your spiels.

so it was me being to direct? Sure I can accept that. But they are not spiel they are opinions. But even then if this provoked you to a racist comment I can not help you but to say that it is a pretty weak justification

 

[hammysaurusrex]

Often, the suicide seemed to happen without warning: 54 percent of the people who killed themselves didn't have a previously known mental health issue. "Instead, these folks were suffering from other issues, such as relationship problems, substance misuse, physical health problems, job or financial problems, and recent crises or things that were coming up in their lives that they were anticipating," says Stone.

Weird, I don't see "social justice warriors made me feel bad on the internet" on that list, despite the claims of the thread.

edit: I mean, sure, if there's some evidence to be presented - by all means go down this road. But I'm not convinced that people in Montana are offing themselves because of Kotaku articles.

 

[BANGS]

I love how people immediately blame guns, healthcare, white people, etc but then forget Japan exists...

 

[Ke0]

Also let us not forget that white men have the highest rates by far. Being constantly bombared how bad their race and gender is will not make people happy but rather depressive. Ignoring their problems and even labeling them as racist and sexist when they speak up by a certain group or political ideology is not making this better.

By these standards you'd expect black men to have the highest rates by far given the treatment of their people and in particular them by the country and government. So I don't think this is it at all.

White men's rates are the highest because of the increased pressures of obtaining success in a country that suppresses wages, dying industries they once were kings of (coal industry, manufacturing, shale) less and less avenues of obtaining success are available while bills are still due, and they're taking care of their family on that one source of income. They are essentially being left behind and being told to tough it out because of America's obsession with individualism and refusal of creating and maintaining social safety nets because of the notion the "others" will use it. Add on top white men are most likely to own guns and don't seek medical help for their mental illnesses because that's not seen as manly but as a sign of weakness, and/or their inability to afford said mental healthcare they have very little avenues of hope available. We haven't even started talking about medical debt that they can't afford for both them and their family.

When your entire life you've been a dial miner or something like that and you have no other skills and that industry dies, you're fucked. They can't simply go to school and many don't want to be retrained into something they'll make much less money in (going from like $70k USD to like $32k is a huge blow I imagine)

I'm willing to bet if you broke down suicides by region white men are committing suicide the most in rural communities more than everywhere else by a huge margin. Then you have alcohol and drug addiction that becomes prevalent in those towns due to low prospects, youth leaving those towns for urban areas where the jobs are

I love how people immediately blame guns, healthcare, white people, etc but then forget Japan exists...

Yea it's almost as if they're two separate countries with their own cultural and socioeconomic issues completely independent of one another thus no reason to bring them up.

 

[Dunki]

White men's rates are the highest because of the increased pressures of obtaining success in a country that suppresses wages, dying industries they once were kings of (coal industry, manufacturing, shale) less and less avenues of obtaining success are available while bills are still due, and they're taking care of their family on that one source of income. They are essentially being left behind and being told to tough it out because of America's obsession with individualism and refusal of creating and maintaining social safety nets because of the notion the "others" will use it. Add on top white men are most likely to own guns and don't seek medical help for their mental illnesses because that's not seen as manly but as a sign of weakness, and/or their inability to afford said mental healthcare they have very little avenues of hope available.

I'm willing to bet if you broke down suicides by region white men are committing suicide the most in rural communities more than everywhere else by a huge margin. Then you have alcohol and drug addiction that becomes prevalent in those towns due to low prospects, youth leaving those towns for urban areas where the jobs are

Yeah that is a great conclusion. Its the pressure that is being put on them from every side of society while also being totally left alone and getting told to tough it up. I fully agree with your well stated post. Thank you^

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

White fragility. Poor white men.

You sound like you're mocking them. What is the point of that? People who are burdened by depression and suicidal thoughts are not weak or fragile.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Yea it's almost as if they're two separate countries with their own cultural and socioeconomic issues completely independent of one another thus no reason to bring them up.

The pressures in Japan are similar in nature to the US - Japan has the US corporate rat race on steroids, with more socialistic policies attenuating that a bit. It's a fair comparison.

Of course, people like you bring up will bring up Australia or Europe like that means something more.

 

[i_am_ben]

Anyway, its clear that more is required from governments to address the problem

The Federal Government hasn't been doing enough on mental health - in fact it has cut mental health programs. That needs to be reversed. Additional mental health funding would actually probably be a net economic investment. It keeps people productive, reduces crime and homelessness, and lowers the cost of more expensive healthcare down the line.

I also think there needs to be a much larger focus on male mental health in schools and in entertainment. This idea that men should keep things bottled up is extremely toxic. The most effective vehicle for men would probably be using sport for mental health awareness campaigns. Also, the campaigns can't just focus on kids. It needs to focus on adults too.

 

[Future]

There’s been so much discussion about mental health lately though (due to shootings and what not). How can anything really be done about this without socializing some aspect of healthcare.

People can get help now, but they just don’t. How can you make them?

 

[Ke0]

The pressures in Japan are similar in nature to the US - Japan has the US corporate rat race on steroids, with more socialistic policies attenuating that a bit. It's a fair comparison.

Of course, people like you bring up will bring up Australia or Europe like that means something more.

I've only made one post and I haven't brought up any country other than the one in the article. And considering I'm British, me bringing up the UK would be fair game, yet I haven't.

Also bringing up Japan or Korea is no different than bringing up EU, so if you don't want unfavorable comparisons to EU then don't bring up comparisons of Japan because it's the same thing

 

[infinitys_7th]

There’s been so much discussion about mental health lately though (due to shootings and what not). How can anything really be done about this without socializing some aspect of healthcare.

People can get help now, but they just don’t. How can you make them?

A lot of countries with socialized medicine do not cover therapy and basic psychological services well. Canada barely covers it.

 

[infinitys_7th]

I've only made one post and I haven't brought up any country other than the one in the article. And considering I'm British, me bringing up the UK would be fair game, yet I haven't.

Surface analysis of Japan's issues are pointless in this conversation

Why? They integrated a huge chunk of US culture post-WW2.

Some of the issues brought up here (men tending to bottle up problems) are very much part of the culture there. You don't talk about your problems there either.

 

[Dunki]

Not really. In Terms of laws, poilitical systems they adopted a lot from European countries since the Meji area like education etc.

As for culture Japan did not really do this and if they did this they out their own spin on it. Actually an example for fashion US designer will first look at Japan to create a new fashion style for the US or western countries. What you now people see wearing was a trend way before in Japan. Japan is the secret trendsetter of the world in many aspects of culture. As for suicide there is a whole lot more pressure in Japan on all the people. It starts with school than pre school than if you are done many children went to extra schools in the evening etc.

You get this pressure since you are a child.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

What people think success is has changed. Happiness isn’t lasting for many. They set goals and even if reached, the achievements are lackluster.

 

[i_am_ben]

There’s been so much discussion about mental health lately though (due to shootings and what not). How can anything really be done about this without socializing some aspect of healthcare.

People can get help now, but they just don’t. How can you make them?

The mental health debate has been too tied to mass shooting perpetrators. That's not really a link you want to foster given 99.9% of depressed people are not going to hurt anyone except themselves. I think the focus on mass shooting and mental health actually discourages men from seeking the help they need. People with depression aren't psychos.

Also, I'd love for universal health care, but the USA can't wait for that. The most practical thing it can do is push for more funding grants at a (local, state and Federal level) to address mental health. Also, infinitys_7th is correct. Many countries with universal healthcare systems mainly focus on hospital funding and are not doing enough on things like mental health.

At the risk of being controversial (for neogaf), Hillary Clinton had a pretty good mental health platform and could be a good place to start.

Now, as to how we can change the culture of men, well that's gonna be a long-term thing and there are no easy answers.

 

[Dunki]

Now, as to how we can change the culture of men, well that's gonna be a long-term thing and there are no easy answers.

The thing we could do however is starting this route sometime because right now they have no help at all and even get ridiculed for it.

 

[i_am_ben]

Also, I have no idea why you are all obsessed with Japan... All the other main anglophone countries (UK, Canada, Australia and NZ) are more similar culturally, and have better suicide rates

 

[Spheyr]

What people think success is has changed. Happiness isn’t lasting for many. They set goals and even if reached, the achievements are lackluster.

Yeah, my wife and I are homeowners with no mortgage, she works in a field that pays better than the one she got a degree in, we have a brand new car in our driveway next to our older car that still runs almost as well as the day it rolled off the factory floor, there's a motorcycle for each of us in the garage, we just got a second kayak...

But it still isn't good enough because the people she's comparing herself to have a nicer new car, a nicer house in a nicer neighborhood, etc. Drives me nuts. We're living within our means, ALL HER FRIENDS bitch non-stop about being broke and having so many bills and payments on everything, etc. It's enough to make me want to go live in a cave sometimes.

 

[BANGS]

Yea it's almost as if they're two separate countries with their own cultural and socioeconomic issues completely independent of one another thus no reason to bring them up.

How does one make that jump in logic? I'm assuming Japan just doesn't fit your narrative...

 

[i_am_ben]

The thing we could do however is starting this route sometime because right now they have no help at all and even get ridiculed for it.

I'd personally start with government using the NBA, NFL etc. to start mental health campaigns.

But I think its important that services exist in the first place. At the moment I imagine people are feeling very very lost and don't think they have anyone to turn to.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

White fragility. Poor white men.

As of 2014 (as reported by WHO, the CDC, and the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. )

Who is most likely to commit suicide? Gender

Overwhelmingly, males are. In 2012, men had a suicide rate of 20.3/100,000, and women had a rate of 5.4/100.000. Males kill themselves at about four times the rate for females, and represent 78.3% of all U.S. suicides. While males are 4 times more likely than females to die by suicide, females attempt suicide 3 times as often as males.

This goes along with what I said about men having a higher success rate at suicide.

Race/Ethnicity

White males accounted for 65% of all suicides in 2012. (14/100,000) The 2nd highest rate (11) was among American Indians and Alaska Natives. Much lower and roughly similar rates were found among Asians and Pacific Islanders (6.2), Hispanics (5.8) and Blacks (5.5).

So you're not wrong.


Edit: not really entertaining a conversation about Japan when I created a thread speaking toward suicide in AMERICA.

 

[Dunki]

As of 2014 (as reported by WHO, the CDC, and the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. )



This goes along with what I said about men having a higher success rate at suicide.



So you're not wrong.


Edit: not really entertaining a conversation about Japan when I created a thread speaking toward suicide in AMERICA.

1 women have far more places they can go to before and after an attempt. It’s not because they do not have guns.

2 he said it in a very vile disgusting tone. A similar tone would be oh poor black boy after someone has mentioned the prison statistics in the us. It was very racist

 

[llien]

Also, men are more successful at committing suicide on average...

3+ times more "successful".

...because they are more likely to use a gun.

Or for other reasons, as the wide suicide gender gap persists in countries with tight gun control laws.

 

[llien]

White fragility. Poor white men.

63% of US population is non-hispanic white, so, why do people wonder that they are 65% of those who commit suicide?

If one excludes the "privilege" part, which should, in idea, mean less suicides, I don't see how white men are more (or less) fragile than other men in the USA.

 

[Naudi]

So if this is your response when the sucide rate of white men is on an all time high and far far beyond everyone else. Why do you think I should care about your struggles? I guess you are black or at least non white.

Why do you think I should care then? Because you are the victim? give me a break. Unlike you I care about everyone who suffers. I do not differentiate between gender or race. I do not care if you are a male rape victim or a female rape victim.

This is what I was talking about when you make everything about race you already have become a racist something you despise.
Phrases like this have lead to your president and now you have to deal with it But with this kind of reaction do not expect any empathy from me about your problems.

I'm a straight white male. Your post was beyond rediculous. Out of all the reasons to commit suicide you go right to blaming it on poor white men being called racist lol get a grip.

 

[llien]

There was a pre-showergate thread on GAF, about depressed "millenials", staying home, often with parents, playing game, skipping work, skipping school, mostly young men.

I wonder which share of the 30% increase is on them.

 

[Naudi]

Seems alot of people here are reading my previous comment and getting offended without even looking at what I was responding to. And again for the record I am a white male.