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[Dunki]

OH!...............I just realized you don't know the difference between "cornrows" and "braids". This is embarrassing. I forgot I wasn't speaking to someone of the culture. My bad. I was talking about cornrows, not "braids". There's a HUGE difference.

Sorry that I am not a hair expert HOWEVER. It is the same with Braids. I remember a story when a white teenage girl posted her new hairstyle (braids) on facebook because she was really proud how it looked on her and then she got a MASSIVE amount of death threats and attacks how she dares to use this hairstyle while being white. And then you have this guy for wearing dreads




. And honestly I do not fucking care who you think owns what. To me NO Race owns anything. There is no black culture there is no white culture there is culture of countries and religions etc but jut because you are black or white does not mean anything. It all depends on WHERE you did grew up and not with what skincolor. Thats why RAce is so fucking stupid. You being proud of something you have no influence of ridiculous. But since it i a free world you can think what you will and I can think what I will while I mix styles, food, thoughts etc of all cultures to fit to my liking while you get triggered by someone who wears a sombrero

Nah.

She committed suicide because she realized that her "profession" is whoring, and that she would never be anything more than that.

Bree Olson was also crying about how "nobody takes her seriously" after she was taking the D from Lex Steele and...who was that actor who was dating two women at one time, including her? She didn't take her life tho.


That said, porn actresses taking their lives (or simply dying early for a number of unnatural reasons) is not uncommon.

NO she killed herself because of the harassment she recieved after her tweet.

her last tweets

But the kind of victim blaming is actually really disgusting. She actually liked her job and her life before this. Her husband also said that she was the kindest person he knew and how these attacks have destroyed her. So saying that it was because of her profession is fucking ridiculous. Her brother wrote this afterwards as well

"Bullying is not a joke.

"It took my sister's life and I can't get her back. This pain I feel cause people couldn't keep their opinions to themselves is unbearable, although I have nothing but hate for each and everyone of you people who drove her to this i still do not wish this pain on you.

"This has forever changed me and who I am as a person," he went on.

"I guess I can't hide from the rumours and the messages won't stop. This will be my one and only post and then i would like to be left alone.

But I guess you are an expert and knows more about her than her husband and brother. Good for you that you also could not only blame the victim but also the porn industry which you probably think is disgusting and racist and sexist. So you go boy

 

[LegendOfKage]

Not sure what your point is.

The layman's translation of that scripture is "don't judge hypocritically." I'm not a pornstar. In fact, I'm very anti-porn because of how destructive it is, both for those who produce it, and also for those who consume it.

Do you feel the same of "let he without sin cast the first stone"? Because we can go with that, if you want. I've never felt hypocrisy had anything to do with "judge not, lest ye be judged."

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Do you feel the same of "let he without sin cast the first stone"? Because we can go with that, if you want. I've never felt hypocrisy had anything to do with "judge not, lest ye be judged."

The full scripture reads, "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you." ~ Matt 7:1-2.

That is why I say that it translates to "do not judge hypocritically."

After all, the Bible also says, "Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted. " ~Gal 6:1

Most importantly, perhaps, is the first thing Jesus says when he begins his ministry: "From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.'" ~ Matt 4:17

You will notice that Jesus calls for repentance long before he gives his Sermon on the Mount.

As far as "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" has to do with an instance where the adulturess is about to be stoned to death, not that she wasn't guilty of adultery. If you read the rest of John 8:11, Jesus tells the woman to go forth and sin no more.

So he forgave her of her sins; she did not need to die right there on the spot; Jesus teaches forbearance.

If there is anyone who has the impression that Christians are never supposed to speak against sin, they haven't actually read scripture.

Try John 7:24: "Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Nah.

She committed suicide because she realized that her "profession" is whoring, and that she would never be anything more than that.

Bree Olson was also crying about how "nobody takes her seriously" after she was taking the D from Lex Steele and...who was that actor who was dating two women at one time, including her? She didn't take her life tho.


That said, porn actresses taking their lives (or simply dying early for a number of unnatural reasons) is not uncommon.

This is disappointing. You can't use the religion they forced on us to drag them. That girl was absolutely driven to kill herself by gay twitter, that doesn't mean that she wasn't already in a mental space to contemplate it.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Another person I knew at work committed suicide.

That makes two in one year.

Pandemic.

 

[AngularSaxophone]

There’s no porn star who likes their life.

 

[Gander]

We could but we don't have a lot of healthy answers to things right now. People feel like they either need to kill themselves or go on a shooting spree or both.

 

[PonyStation4]

White fragility. Poor white men.

Wrong forum?

https://www.resetera.com/

 

[mckmas8808]

We could but we don't have a lot of healthy answers to things right now. People feel like they either need to kill themselves or go on a shooting spree or both.

This is why mental therapy should be advertised WAAAY more than it currently is. Some of these people just need to talk to someone about their life/feelings.

 

[Sub_Level]

Anti-Ds changed my life. They completely cured my chronic depression. Wish everyone had that success with meds. They dont work for some people.

 

[BANGS]

Anti-Ds changed my life. They completely cured my chronic depression. Wish everyone had that success with meds. They dont work for some people.

Unfortunately too many people are misdiagnosed to accurately predict success rates... Way too often someone who is simply depressed it diagnosed with depression, and pills can't help those people...

 

[synchronicity]

I think there are a lot of factors contributing to this steady increase.

We are getting much less sun than is healthy for starters. I had a dr tell me that he almost never encounters a patient that isn't vitamin D deficient. We're biological machines that need certain things in order to function properly. We aren't getting those things. Along those lines, the human diet is atrocious, generally speaking. We eat trash, yet expect our bodies/brains to perform without the substances that make optimal performance possible.

We are also living sedentary lives. The human animal is meant to move, to be active. In general we are not addressing that basic need.

Additionally, we are living in social isolation - many of us, and ironically in this era of ubiquitous digital interconnectedness. We crave connection and consistent human contact, yet many go without.

Generally speaking, we are just living out of harmony with our nature. The result of that is what we are seeing, imo. At some point, if we continue to exist as a species, those of us who survive will adapt theoretically. I don't imagine the resultant beings will be that familiar to who we are today, however.

 

[tkscz]

Wear the hair how you want, just give credit. That's all. Is that really that hard. We actually do know where the styles came from. That's the thing. You still can't give credit can you? I'm not sure this convo is going anywhere....

So wait, you want every single person to give credit for when they have a hair style that's mostly worn by someone else of a different culture? Or do you want the media to do it? Everything you posted before points to the media being the issue, not just someone wearing the hairstyle. You said you don't like the idea of someone outside the culture wearing the hairstyle to wear, what if that person grew up in the culture? Dreadlocks were always a big one in the argument, but prior to Rastafarianism, Dreads were mostly an Asian (Hindu and Buddhist) thing. Dreads became more of a black culture thing after the rise of Rastafarianism, which borrowed a lot of it's beliefs from Buddhism, should we give credit to Asian Buddhist and Hindus every time we wear dreads?

I get what you're saying, I do, but the issue comes down to media making what was normally unpopular in one culture, popular in another. But your blame is at those who didn't cause the sensation. Those people in the pictures just wanted to wear the hairstyles, they weren't interviewed for having them, they weren't trying to create a style, they just wore them and the media turned it into something else, because most articles apparently don't have anything important to argue about.

But on topic, the rate of suicide rose with the popularity of social media. I know at this point that's obvious. Online bullying got much easier to do when opinions, health status and life style became a popular thing to tell everyone. Not everyone can withstand the negativity that comes from a lot of people, but when your entire life is opinion to public opinion, it's going to happen. I see it on Tumblr a lot. Someone gives an opinion about something and then gets several people immediately disagreeing in the most heinous of ways, complete with insults and messages of go kill yourself. It only gets worse and while most can take it, a lot can't. I still can't forget when a bunch of steven universe fans nearly got someone to commit suicide for fan art.

 

[mckmas8808]

So wait, you want every single person to give credit for when they have a hair style that's mostly worn by someone else of a different culture? Or do you want the media to do it? Everything you posted before points to the media being the issue, not just someone wearing the hairstyle. You said you don't like the idea of someone outside the culture wearing the hairstyle to wear, what if that person grew up in the culture? Dreadlocks were always a big one in the argument, but prior to Rastafarianism, Dreads were mostly an Asian (Hindu and Buddhist) thing. Dreads became more of a black culture thing after the rise of Rastafarianism, which borrowed a lot of it's beliefs from Buddhism, should we give credit to Asian Buddhist and Hindus every time we wear dreads?

I get what you're saying, I do, but the issue comes down to media making what was normally unpopular in one culture, popular in another. But your blame is at those who didn't cause the sensation. Those people in the pictures just wanted to wear the hairstyles, they weren't interviewed for having them, they weren't trying to create a style, they just wore them and the media turned it into something else, because most articles apparently don't have anything important to argue about.

But on topic, the rate of suicide rose with the popularity of social media. I know at this point that's obvious. Online bullying got much easier to do when opinions, health status and life style became a popular thing to tell everyone. Not everyone can withstand the negativity that comes from a lot of people, but when your entire life is opinion to public opinion, it's going to happen. I see it on Tumblr a lot. Someone gives an opinion about something and then gets several people immediately disagreeing in the most heinous of ways, complete with insults and messages of go kill yourself. It only gets worse and while most can take it, a lot can't. I still can't forget when a bunch of steven universe fans nearly got someone to commit suicide for fan art.

1. This is mostly about the media being the issue, yes. Again I don't mind if a white guy wears dreads. Just don't be the same guy to act like you came up with the hairstyle yourself if someone asks you.

2. You are 100% right about social media. We as a species weren't built to withstand that level of communication (the number of people at once). We have adapted to communicating with people within our family, friend zone, neighborhood/tribe, but not 200 people from all over the world from all different kinds of age ranges, genders, race, national identity, etc. To put it another way, in real-life all of us would NEVER be talking to each other in person ever! The opportunity would never present itself. And if it did we'd probably splitter off into smaller groups of 3-6 people to have a conversation. Social Media is weird. :-/

 

[Nintendo Switch]

I'd be curious to know how many people who commit suicide are on psych meds. When I learned how many school shooters were on prescription psych meds, my mind was fucking blown.

Correlation isn’t causation.

People with major depression are more likely to be on antidepressants. They are also more likely to commit suicide.

Kids that are psychopaths and bully others and torture animals are more likely to be school shooters. They are also more likely to have been taken to a psychological evaluation and started on beds by parents who see a sociopath in the making.

 

[Ke0]

Cost of living constantly increasing, medical and school debts rising at exponential rates, social safety net being eroded, wages aren't keeping up. Yea it makes sense you're seeing more suicides. People are feeling more backed into a corner with very little avenues out. And when they speak out they're simply told to "work harder."

Essentially people are being crushed under the boot of unchecked capitalism. I feel terrible because it's what people are voting for sadly.

 

[Grey Specter]

Also let us not forget that white men have the highest rates by far. Being constantly bombared how bad their race and gender is will not make people happy but rather depressive. Ignoring their problems and even labeling them as racist and sexist when they speak up by a certain group or political ideology is not making this better.

That's true enough and I don't think anybody should be forced to suffer abuse. However, the reason the statistic is primarily male is simply nature, that men are more likely to go through with something like suicide than women (so I've heard). It's also not necessarily environmental, it could easily be clinical as well.

 

[Humdinger]

Also let us not forget that white men have the highest rates by far. Being constantly bombared how bad their race and gender is will not make people happy but rather depressive. Ignoring their problems and even labeling them as racist and sexist when they speak up by a certain group or political ideology is not making this better.

And I'll just add that part of the issue is the legal system (family courts in particular) and how biased it is against men, when it comes to divorce and child custody issues. A lot of men, when they get divorced, get really screwed over, have their kids taken away, have to pay ridiculous alimony and child support, thrown in jail if they don't make payments. The stories about "divorce rape" are pretty chilling, and they lead to a lot of male suicides for men in the 30-50 range. It gets almost no media attention. Very sad state of affairs.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

And I'll just add that part of the issue is the legal system (family courts in particular) and how biased it is against men, when it comes to divorce and child custody issues. A lot of men, when they get divorced, get really screwed over, have their kids taken away, have to pay ridiculous alimony and child support, thrown in jail if they don't make payments. The stories about "divorce rape" are pretty chilling, and they lead to a lot of male suicides for men in the 30-50 range. It gets almost no media attention. Very sad state of affairs.

The price of patriarchy.

Cost of living constantly increasing, medical and school debts rising at exponential rates, social safety net being eroded, wages aren't keeping up. Yea it makes sense you're seeing more suicides. People are feeling more backed into a corner with very little avenues out. And when they speak out they're simply told to "work harder."

Essentially people are being crushed under the boot of unchecked capitalism. I feel terrible because it's what people are voting for sadly.

Death by ideology. And hubris.

 

[Humdinger]

The price of patriarchy.

lol

 

[mckmas8808]

lol

It's crazy but it's the price of dudes knocking up chicks and then leaving them so often. When it's time to fight for the kids the court system will side with the gender that "generally" doesn't abandon the kid in most typical situations. It sucks on an individual level though when the guy actually wants the kids though.

 

[Humdinger]

It's crazy but it's the price of dudes knocking up chicks and then leaving them so often. When it's time to fight for the kids the court system will side with the gender that "generally" doesn't abandon the kid in most typical situations. It sucks on an individual level though when the guy actually wants the kids though.

I was referring to marriage and divorce, not to guys knocking up chicks and leaving them. Family courts overwhelmingly deciding in favor of wives (about 80% of the time) rather than husbands has nothing to do with that. Family courts and divorce law are badly biased against men, and there's no excuse for it. Rationalizing it away as deserved somehow, because of "patriarchy" or other men's misbehavior, is nothing more than blaming the victim and shows an astonishing level of hypocrisy and lack of awareness (not speaking to you personally, just making a general remark). But hey, men's victimization doesn't matter.

 

[Ke0]

I was referring to marriage and divorce, not to guys knocking up chicks and leaving them. Family courts overwhelmingly deciding in favor of wives (about 80% of the time) rather than husbands has nothing to do with that. Family courts and divorce law are badly biased against men, and there's no excuse for it. Rationalizing it away as deserved somehow, because of "patriarchy" or other men's misbehavior, is nothing more than blaming the victim and shows an astonishing level of hypocrisy and lack of awareness (not speaking to you personally, just making a general remark). But hey, men's victimization doesn't matter.

Well courts rule in favor of women because of traditional gender roles, "women are nurturers", "women should stay home and take care of the kids", "men are providers"

They were always gonna end up biting men in the ass eventually.

Can't push these ideologies for decades upon decades, codify them into laws and not have it backfire in some areas.

Society needs to stop pushing these roles in pop culture too it only keeps the idea cemented in modern society.

 

[mckmas8808]

Well courts rule in favor of women because of traditional gender roles, "women are nurturers", "women should stay home and take care of the kids", "men are providers"

They were always gonna end up biting men in the ass eventually.

Can't push these ideologies for decades upon decades, codify them into laws and not have it backfire in some areas.

Society needs to stop pushing these roles in pop culture too it only keeps the idea cemented in modern society.

YEP! Which leads back to what Phoenix RISING said......."The price of patriarchy."

 

[Humdinger]

I think the "patriarchy" is a stupid SJW/feminist term. I don't buy the "female oppression" narrative at all.

Men get f*cked in divorce court all the time. It's not just about giving primary custody of the kids to the woman and shutting the man out, it's also about ridiculous alimony payments and child support payments which reduce a man to a shadow of his former self and relate precisely to the topic of this thread. Male suicides under these conditions are not uncommon. I have to assume the men who aren't aware of these things are too young to have friends who have gone through it. Or else they just buy into the prevailing feminist narratives about how, basically, it's all men's fault, and they deserve it.

 

[TrainedRage]

Eh, people are soft, and getting softer.

 

[One Eyed Willy]

Eh, people are soft, and getting softer.

Decades of fatherless homes will do that.

 

[TrainedRage]

Decades of fatherless homes will do that.

Yeah i'm sure its more than that too. Like the boom of the Trans community along with more prevalent social media for kids in high school.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

YEP! Which leads back to what Phoenix RISING said......."The price of patriarchy."

Well courts rule in favor of women because of traditional gender roles, "women are nurturers", "women should stay home and take care of the kids", "men are providers"

They were always gonna end up biting men in the *** eventually.

Can't push these ideologies for decades upon decades, codify them into laws and not have it backfire in some areas.

Society needs to stop pushing these roles in pop culture too it only keeps the idea cemented in modern society.

Facts.

Don't get me wrong. There are certain parts of patriarchy that I so like and stand by. The above user, for example, mentions fatherless homes. I advocate against single parenthood as something we should accept as a norm, and believe that a mother and father in the home is best. But let me push further than simply a man being home: consider men feeling the pressure of failing at what is perceived as being a real man.

What is a real man? Being a breadwinner? A good father? A good lover?

What fascinating is that on occasion, feminism is brought up on (Neo)NeoGaf, and when that happens, much energy is focused on looking at feminism in a negative light, that its merits are completely neglected. We now have threads on "toxic masculinity" and "incels"; ironically, feminism has already addressed these sort of topics years and years ago.

Feminism deconstructs patriarchal expectations placed upon masculinity. A user gets mad about how the courts are biased towards women in divorce cases, but scowls when it is suggested that this perceived double-standard comes at the cost of a society that believes men are intrinsically superior to women, with the sole exception of reducing women as breeders and existing for the pleasure of men (here, I point to the fanservice thread on gaming side as an immediately palatable example).

When society begins to acknowledge women fully as people rather than creatures that merely exist to service men, in addition to child-rearing being looked upon as "manly" in the way that we perceive beards, professional athletes, a womanizer, and the like, then you may see more women paying alimony, or men gaining custody of the kids besides the rare exceptions such as due to a mother's abusive behaviors and habits.

 

[mckmas8808]

I think the "patriarchy" is a stupid SJW/feminist term. I don't buy the "female oppression" narrative at all.

Men get f*cked in divorce court all the time. It's not just about giving primary custody of the kids to the woman and shutting the man out, it's also about ridiculous alimony payments and child support payments which reduce a man to a shadow of his former self and relate precisely to the topic of this thread. Male suicides under these conditions are not uncommon. I have to assume the men who aren't aware of these things are too young to have friends who have gone through it. Or else they just buy into the prevailing feminist narratives about how, basically, it's all men's fault, and they deserve it.

Surely you know the history of women's rights in America don't you? How can female oppression be something that you or anybody else say isn't true and never has been true?

 

[Humdinger]

Surely you know the history of women's rights in America don't you? How can female oppression be something that you or anybody else say isn't true and never has been true?

I'm not saying that. I'm chuckling at the "patriarchy" narrative, because it's silly from a variety of perspectives. First because it sees the male and female relationship strictly in terms of power. That's only one factor, but all the other factors (such as division of labor in order to survive, in an evolutionary sense and then in early society, or the desire to cooperate in order to survive, or even, gasp, love and bonds of interpersonal affection) are just ignored in this patriarchy narrative. It's all about men supposedly dominating and subjugating women. Second, because it ignores different physical attributes, abilities, and traits of men and women that go a long distance to explain how things worked out. Third because "patriarchy," especially when used by leftist ideologues, is pretty much synonymous with Western civilization, which has produced the best the world has seen. Fourth because it does violence to the fact that men have done tons of work to make women's lives easier -- essentially, they've built the Western civilization that eventually enabled women to get to the point where they had the leisure time, freedom, and safety enough to assert themselves (men were also the ones who gave them the vote, which is not very patriarchal of them). Fifth because if there is a "patriarchy" where it's all about male perogative, tell me why men account for almost every death in war from prehistory to now, account for almost all workplace deaths, hold the most dangerous occupations, die much earlier than women, are subject to a variety of illnesses at much greater rates than women, fill the prisons, get harsher prison sentences than women for the same crimes, are falling badly behind in school, etc., If that's a patriarchy, that is an amazingly inept one. Sixth, it's just one more victim narrative in a world full of people competing in the oppression olympics. Seventh, even if there were times in history when the structure of civilization put barriers in the way of women expressing themselves (which it did for men, too), it is certainly not true now or for the past few decades, so maybe it's time to drop the victim narrative.

There are other things wrong with it, but those are the ones that come to mind at the moment. Suffice to say I think there the idea of "the patriarchy," especially as it is trotted out by SJWs and feminists, is full of holes and a deeply distorted view of the world and of the history of male-female relationships.

I don't blame people for seeing it that way, though. Most people have been indoctrinated in that view from an early age. It took me a while before I could see things from another perspective.

Anyhow, I don't mean to go off topic. The topic is suicide.

On that topic, I heard today that male suicide rates had risen 43% since 1994. That's actual suicides, not attempts. Much of that happens with middle-aged men. Speaking of which, I forgot to mention a couple other factors that contribute to "divorce rape" and male suicides -- false allegations of sexual assault and child abuse. These are common tactics used by women in divorce, and they work very well, because the family court system and divorce law is so biased against men. (Lest anyone think I'm a bitter divorced guy, I'm not. I've just heard plenty of horror stories.)

Ok, I've said my piece.

 

[pramod]

I think Trumps doing a good job, but if theres one area hes badly neglecting is the opioid epidemic crisis.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

I'm not saying that. I'm chuckling at the "patriarchy" narrative, because it's silly from a variety of perspectives. First because it sees the male and female relationship strictly in terms of power. That's only one factor, but all the other factors (such as division of labor in order to survive, in an evolutionary sense and then in early society, or the desire to cooperate in order to survive, or even, gasp, love and bonds of interpersonal affection) are just ignored in this patriarchy narrative. It's all about men supposedly dominating and subjugating women. Second, because it ignores different physical attributes, abilities, and traits of men and women that go a long distance to explain how things worked out. Third because "patriarchy," especially when used by leftist ideologues, is pretty much synonymous with Western civilization, which has produced the best the world has seen. Fourth because it does violence to the fact that men have done tons of work to make women's lives easier -- essentially, they've built the Western civilization that eventually enabled women to get to the point where they had the leisure time, freedom, and safety enough to assert themselves (men were also the ones who gave them the vote, which is not very patriarchal of them). Fifth because if there is a "patriarchy" where it's all about male perogative, tell me why men account for almost every death in war from prehistory to now, account for almost all workplace deaths, hold the most dangerous occupations, die much earlier than women, are subject to a variety of illnesses at much greater rates than women, fill the prisons, get harsher prison sentences than women for the same crimes, are falling badly behind in school, etc., If that's a patriarchy, that is an amazingly inept one. Sixth, it's just one more victim narrative in a world full of people competing in the oppression olympics. Seventh, even if there were times in history when the structure of civilization put barriers in the way of women expressing themselves (which it did for men, too), it is certainly not true now or for the past few decades, so maybe it's time to drop the victim narrative.

There are other things wrong with it, but those are the ones that come to mind at the moment. Suffice to say I think there the idea of "the patriarchy," especially as it is trotted out by SJWs and feminists, is full of holes and a deeply distorted view of the world and of the history of male-female relationships.

I don't blame people for seeing it that way, though. Most people have been indoctrinated in that view from an early age. It took me a while before I could see things from another perspective.

Anyhow, I don't mean to go off topic. The topic is suicide.

On that topic, I heard today that male suicide rates had risen 43% since 1994. That's actual suicides, not attempts. Much of that happens with middle-aged men. Speaking of which, I forgot to mention a couple other factors that contribute to "divorce rape" and male suicides -- false allegations of sexual assault and child abuse. These are common tactics used by women in divorce, and they work very well, because the family court system and divorce law is so biased against men. (Lest anyone think I'm a bitter divorced guy, I'm not. I've just heard plenty of horror stories.)

Ok, I've said my piece.

Ah, you're one of those MRA. That's why you're tossing around "feminists" and "SJWs" and scoffing at the merits of patriarchal pathology.


Well, have fun with that.

 

[Dontero]

Ah, you're one of those MRA. That's why you're tossing around "feminists" and "SJWs" and scoffing at the merits of patriarchal pathology.


Well, have fun with that.

Care to explain something more than just well "you use word i don't like so you are wrong" ? Because only thing it proves is that you are ignorant to people opinions other than what you have established in your head.

As for patriarchy... care to explain where is that patriarchy when 95% of your life is working for food and trying not to die ?
Because that is whole human existance up to about something like industrial revolutions. Don't judge humanity by actions of few. World back then operated in different therms and using your own 21 century egalitarian mind doesn't mean much when you have to go work 12 hours a day on field breaking your back or you starve OR die because your controling despot doesn't get most of your work as tax.

And since men had it so good then why they were the ones dying left and right ? Or you are one of those people who think that men wanted to go to war being conscripted into militia by their local despot or be at end of the sword regardless who "allies" and "enemies" were as both parties would raid your village kill men and rape women (if kill them later or sell them).

It is fine and cool to judge society from your comfort bed when you don't starve and you have laws protecting you and giving you a sense of "equality".

Also answer why men which had supposed patriarchy decided to end it ?

 

[mckmas8808]

Care to explain something more than just well "you use word i don't like so you are wrong" ? Because only thing it proves is that you are ignorant to people opinions other than what you have established in your head.

As for patriarchy... care to explain where is that patriarchy when 95% of your life is working for food and trying not to die ?
Because that is whole human existance up to about something like industrial revolutions. Don't judge humanity by actions of few. World back then operated in different therms and using your own 21 century egalitarian mind doesn't mean much when you have to go work 12 hours a day on field breaking your back or you starve OR die because your controling despot doesn't get most of your work as tax.

And since men had it so good then why they were the ones dying left and right ? Or you are one of those people who think that men wanted to go to war being conscripted into militia by their local despot or be at end of the sword regardless who "allies" and "enemies" were as both parties would raid your village kill men and rape women (if kill them later or sell them).

It is fine and cool to judge society from your comfort bed when you don't starve and you have laws protecting you and giving you a sense of "equality".

Also answer why men which had supposed patriarchy decided to end it ?

Yeah but this falls short when there have been times when women wanted to have the change to die for their country and were denied that right. And men didn't end patriarchy. It's still happening in many countries. It happens in America too, just WAY less than it used to. The reason it's slipping away is that women have pushed back over the last 100 years to try to end it. Don't give the credit to men on that.

 

[tkscz]

It's crazy but it's the price of dudes knocking up chicks and then leaving them so often. When it's time to fight for the kids the court system will side with the gender that "generally" doesn't abandon the kid in most typical situations. It sucks on an individual level though when the guy actually wants the kids though.

Which is more fucked up when you realize that the gender most likely to harm or even kill the kid is the mother. Though that's never taken into account and I never understood why.

 

[lachesis]

Well, I had to fight quite an upward battle and a small fortune (around $50k in legal fees) just to get 50/50 custody of my child during my divorce - even though I was the one who physically took care of my child most of the time, while ex went around on business trips and working leaving home around 7am, returning after midnight for many years. Also had a brief moment of suicidal thought during my divorce too, when I found out of her infidelity and the lies she've told me, or the truths she hid, or at least not told me.

Even though I used to call myself Feminist and still do believe in equal rights and all - but I also see MRM and other point of view too, as I also went through some similar situation with many of them, as a man. But either way. it's a tragedy that one would end his/her life - more likely his. And I would never call the men who killed themselves due to the heavy burden after divorce, as lightly as "price of patriarchy". OP might have not meant that way, at least I hope. Maybe it's true that the family court is so biased is because of patriarchy - but I have to be honest, that I've never seen a feminist activist pushing 50/50 default custody law, or abolition of alimony - especially in this day of no-fault divorce.

Male suicide rate is much higher in any other countries as well - and vast many of those countries don't allow guns. Japan, for example (a quick search of google - hope this site isn't some sort of politically motivated one)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/622705/japan-suicide-number-per-100-000-inhabitants-by-gender/

While it's going down (good for them, especially when their population is in the verge of shrinking) - the gender disparity is still significant.
Even the feminist countries like Norway and Sweden - gender disparity in suicide is quite stark just like any other countries - like 3 out of 2 are male, according to the same/similar sites.
Suicide capitals of the world Lithuania and South Korea - both also show stark gender differentials.

Even without going into the whole MRM issue or gun issue - I think it's safe to say that suicide is something that affects the male population more. I personally don't think the explanation of toxic masculinity and patriarchy explains the disparity as whole. I highly doubt the last thoughts of those men who ended their lives were about "god damn patriarchy" or "my god damn toxic masculinity" - In my case it would have been the feeling of loss after 15 years, immense sadness from betrayal from someone that I loved and trusted deeply, not being able to see my own future, and the whole world just turned upside down. Apart from the extreme degree of such feeling - I don't think it's something that's only limited to men to feel that way after such traumatic experience. Feminism may have been addressing this dangerous extreme part of male psyche for years - but seeing such disparity in countries like Sweden and Norway even today, after many years of implementation or acknowledging it - perhaps the issue runs much deeper than what it seems, and you can't blame someone believing that Feminism might not be as effective solution or even a cure at all. Or our ways of implementation is wrong, or not effective at all - or there are many other factors than just Patriarchy that contributes - social climate and other human psyches etc. For example, we live in a climate that when it's okay to say "Men are better/more effective to kill themselves (or something negative) then women".... yet it's not okay to say "Men are better/more effective at doing (insert something not negative, or even positive) than woman" is sexist, I think we have problem of looking at the this specific issue of male dominance in suicide from its starting point, wherever it would be.

 

[Ke0]

Well, I had to fight quite an upward battle and a small fortune (around $50k in legal fees) just to get 50/50 custody of my child during my divorce - even though I was the one who physically took care of my child most of the time, while ex went around on business trips and working leaving home around 7am, returning after midnight for many years. Also had a brief moment of suicidal thought during my divorce too, when I found out of her infidelity and the lies she've told me, or the truths she hid, or at least not told me.

Even though I used to call myself Feminist and still do believe in equal rights and all - but I also see MRM and other point of view too, as I also went through some similar situation with many of them, as a man. But either way. it's a tragedy that one would end his/her life - more likely his. And I would never call the men who killed themselves due to the heavy burden after divorce, as lightly as "price of patriarchy". OP might have not meant that way, at least I hope. Maybe it's true that the family court is so biased is because of patriarchy - but I have to be honest, that I've never seen a feminist activist pushing 50/50 default custody law, or abolition of alimony - especially in this day of no-fault divorce.

Male suicide rate is much higher in any other countries as well - and vast many of those countries don't allow guns. Japan, for example (a quick search of google - hope this site isn't some sort of politically motivated one)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/622705/japan-suicide-number-per-100-000-inhabitants-by-gender/

While it's going down (good for them, especially when their population is in the verge of shrinking) - the gender disparity is still significant.
Even the feminist countries like Norway and Sweden - gender disparity in suicide is quite stark just like any other countries - like 3 out of 2 are male, according to the same/similar sites.
Suicide capitals of the world Lithuania and South Korea - both also show stark gender differentials.

Even without going into the whole MRM issue or gun issue - I think it's safe to say that suicide is something that affects the male population more. I personally don't think the explanation of toxic masculinity and patriarchy explains the disparity as whole. I highly doubt the last thoughts of those men who ended their lives were about "god damn patriarchy" or "my god damn toxic masculinity" - In my case it would have been the feeling of loss after 15 years, immense sadness from betrayal from someone that I loved and trusted deeply, not being able to see my own future, and the whole world just turned upside down. Apart from the extreme degree of such feeling - I don't think it's something that's only limited to men to feel that way after such traumatic experience. Feminism may have been addressing this dangerous extreme part of male psyche for years - but seeing such disparity in countries like Sweden and Norway even today, after many years of implementation or acknowledging it - perhaps the issue runs much deeper than what it seems, and you can't blame someone believing that Feminism might not be as effective solution or even a cure at all. Or our ways of implementation is wrong, or not effective at all - or there are many other factors than just Patriarchy that contributes - social climate and other human psyches etc. For example, we live in a climate that when it's okay to say "Men are better/more effective to kill themselves (or something negative) then women".... yet it's not okay to say "Men are better/more effective at doing (insert something not negative, or even positive) than woman" is sexist, I think we have problem of looking at the this specific issue of male dominance in suicide from its starting point, wherever it would be.

These are two different things, one is making a statement based on statistical analysis on suicides over long periods of observation, the other is a statement based on genders being forced into roles. Like people say "women are better at taking care of kids" because for decades (if not basically centuries) when were shuttled into the role of taking care of kids. There's nothing inherent about women that makes them better at taking care of children (and by saying this, once again people are in actuality hurting men), men aren't less emotionally equipped to take care of kids, etc.

For as much progress as Sweden and Norway make, they're still at their core societies whose foundations are based on patriarchy and that carries forward into the current society. When people hear "patriarchy" they get overly defensive at this idea that it's all overt and done with purposeful intent when many times it's not it at all, it's just customs, norms and "just how it's always been" can all attribute to it.

I still think it's an absolute huge component of it, because most suicide victims leave behind notes and many of them attribute to things that directly come from patriarchy. "I've been feeling lost, distant, etc" -> Comes from the idea that "real men" don't show emotions, thus they're bottled up and they have no one to talk to. Studies show that men basically only talk to their wives about these things...again which comes from the stigma that men shouldn't show emotions. Or you have notes that talk about the pressures of trying to succeed and do enough to be a "provider" (and just as many men kill themselves when they lose their jobs, because now they're under even more pressure to "provide" for their family).

 

[mckmas8808]

Which is more fucked up when you realize that the gender most likely to harm or even kill the kid is the mother. Though that's never taken into account and I never understood why.

This is because the mother is the one that more than likely actually stayed with the kid? Fatherhood is easier to bail out on than motherhood.

 

[Bryank75]

I know that suicide rates here in Ireland are very high among men, many attribute it to the dark, wet and dreary weather. However we have always had a rather dark and alcohol fueled culture, that takes delight in others misfortune.

 

[tkscz]

This is because the mother is the one that more than likely actually stayed with the kid? Fatherhood is easier to bail out on than motherhood.

In a societal view yes, but if a mom really wanted to bail out, they can sign papers at the hospital to give the child up to foster care or adoption, or just leave the child somewhere.

 

[mckmas8808]

In a societal view yes, but if a mom really wanted to bail out, they can sign papers at the hospital to give the child up to foster care or adoption, or just leave the child somewhere.

True. But this is harder to do when most women bond with the child when it's a fetus inside of them. Us men literally can't have that same connection to a baby. The feel the baby kicking....we can just through up the peace sign and be out.

 

[JimmyJones]

Surely you know the history of women's rights in America don't you?

Key word there, history. Women have equality today and in some cases have more rights than men.

 

[mckmas8808]

Key word there, history. Women have equality today and in some cases have more rights than men.

LOL!!!!! Okay buddy.