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Denuvo launches new technology to prevent Switch emulation
- Thread starter .Pennywise
- Start date
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Ezquimacore
Banned
you know this is not the first time shit like this happens, right? to use 3ds files on pc you need to decrypt the file to be able to play them on citra emulator. obviously that didn't work because all the games are online. If Nintendo does some kind of protection for their games, it's going to be 100% developed by them and not Denuvo. Now Ubisoft would definitely use it.
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lukilladog
Member
Wishful thinking.
CherryFalls
Banned
You can afford a gaming pc which can emulate switch games at 4k, but somehow can't afford a switch game? Cmon now
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YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Emulation rescues good games from bad hardware.
Now that I think about it Nintendo probably wants you to rebuy Xenoblade again on their next console that can actually run it at 30fps.
Now that I think about it Nintendo probably wants you to rebuy Xenoblade again on their next console that can actually run it at 30fps.
killatopak
Gold Member
Who said anything about 4k? Shit, I've seen people emulate Switch games on tech that runs worse than the switch itself.
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night13x
Member
NIIICEEE! this is truely awesome and revolutionary! I am glad I am getting ADDED VALUE to my switch games to let me know if I am a pirate or not. This will keep me morally in check and allow me to purchase another copy if DENOVU decides to completely fuck up half the time like it does with PC games and locks me out! Also the performance degration is a feature as it analysis every frame to make sure I am not being a pirate. Thanks DENOVU!!!!
onnextflix5
Member
Big question is will Nintendo use this for botw2. U would think not , as It would not be without fan backlash, but this is Nintendo we’re talking about.
Daytonabot
Banned
That lady can't walk, you ableist.
Ezquimacore
Banned
Nintendo is not going to put a third party drm inside their first party exclusives, you can be 100% sure of that.
Walter Matthau
Member
_
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Buggy Loop
Member
OMG, that poor switch CPU.
IFireflyl
Gold Member
No. It's like ripping a movie that you bought to your hard drive so you can move it directly to whatever device you want to play it on. Your analogies are so stupid.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
buying a dozen 1st party switch games will cost about as much as the average gaming rig most gamers have these days
if you can afford switch games, why not buy a gaming PC and save with steam sales, while getting better performance on the switch games you dumped?
Bragr
Banned
Movies are nowhere near comparable to the platform and distribution system of games. Your analogies are not even analogies, its nonsense.
IFireflyl
Gold Member
My analogy was spot on, you just lack the intelligence to understand it.
- Rip a Switch game (that I own) to my PC so I can play the game directly from my PC.
- Rip a vinyl record (that I own) to my PC so I can play the songs directly from my PC.
- Rip a blu-ray movie (that I own) to my PC so I can play the movie directly from my PC.
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Bragr
Banned
You think a company producing a game for their own system is the same as a film producer producing movies for the cinema or streaming market? Ok then.
There is a reason Nintendo is going after people like you.
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
I'm just curious how this will work at all, from a technical standpoint. Switch emulation is already incredibly advanced (given that the hardware itself was busted wide open early in it's lifecycle), so in theory: anything that runs on actual hardware should run just fine in emulation.
If you put measures in place to prevent these games from being emulated (but they obviously still have to play fine on the Switch, even offline) then it's trivially easy for the creators of the emulators to bypass that copy protection. If it's doing things at runtime like checking actual hardware inside the Switch, those checks and be spoofed in software on an emulator.
My guess is that, at best, this would / could potentially limit the emulator's ability to run things like higher clock speeds or post-processing. Texture replacements could be prevented too I guess, although that's a type of post-processing. Worst case scenario, the game just runs identically on a PC as it does on a Switch - at least until the copy protection is bypassed.
Will be interesting to see a more technical analysis of how this works, if it's ever implemented in anything.
If you put measures in place to prevent these games from being emulated (but they obviously still have to play fine on the Switch, even offline) then it's trivially easy for the creators of the emulators to bypass that copy protection. If it's doing things at runtime like checking actual hardware inside the Switch, those checks and be spoofed in software on an emulator.
My guess is that, at best, this would / could potentially limit the emulator's ability to run things like higher clock speeds or post-processing. Texture replacements could be prevented too I guess, although that's a type of post-processing. Worst case scenario, the game just runs identically on a PC as it does on a Switch - at least until the copy protection is bypassed.
Will be interesting to see a more technical analysis of how this works, if it's ever implemented in anything.
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ReBurn
Gold Member
I think a pretty cool thread would be people here saying they play Switch games on PC for performance reasons showing the setups they have to rip their Switch carts they own to ROMs. How awesome would it be to see how you do this without downloading torrents, etc. Denuvo is really going to suck for you guys who are preserving the carts you actually own. Because you all surely actually own carts and create your own backups which is totally cool. I just want to see how you personally do it.
Trazyn the Infinite
Member
I do feel sorry for the less than 0.001% of people who are like me and use emulators to play games they purchased and dumped themselves.
I laugh at the people who actively pirate games. Y'all suck and are why we get this shit.
I laugh at the people who actively pirate games. Y'all suck and are why we get this shit.
00_Zer0
Member
A lot of people may not like LTT but they have a great video on preserving your own console games.
I personally own 4 devices that can dump almost every cartridge that has ever existed. I have a Retrode 2, A Retro Blaster, a Arduino based cartridge dumper called Sanni, and a device that dumps Turbo Grafx 16/PC Engine games. After the 8 bit/16 bit era it is a matter of ripping your CD Roms, or DVD Roms, and finding ways to dump the system bios files from the system you are trying to emulate. A good thing about modern consoles is from the Wii onward you basically hack the game systems themselves to be able to dump/rip your games for you .
Sure, there are filthy pirates out there, but there are a lot of people out there like me who enjoys the original hardware and who also wants to back up all my games for future use through PC emulators, or FPGA devices like Mister.
I personally own 4 devices that can dump almost every cartridge that has ever existed. I have a Retrode 2, A Retro Blaster, a Arduino based cartridge dumper called Sanni, and a device that dumps Turbo Grafx 16/PC Engine games. After the 8 bit/16 bit era it is a matter of ripping your CD Roms, or DVD Roms, and finding ways to dump the system bios files from the system you are trying to emulate. A good thing about modern consoles is from the Wii onward you basically hack the game systems themselves to be able to dump/rip your games for you .
Sure, there are filthy pirates out there, but there are a lot of people out there like me who enjoys the original hardware and who also wants to back up all my games for future use through PC emulators, or FPGA devices like Mister.
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IFireflyl
Gold Member
Why specifically does it matter that I play the single-player games that I bought on my PC instead of on the Switch? How does the hardware I play the game on make a bit of difference? "Because Nintendo said so," is not a good reason. Explain to everyone on this thread why this is harmful.
If you don't work for Nintendo then you need therapy. This fanboyism is disgusting.
Ev1L AuRoN
Member
That's what Switch needs, I can't imagine how the Soc with 1020mhz will cope with the overhead...
Unlike PC games, this is unlikely to ever be patched out post release by devs, so this could harm legit emulation in years to come. Definitely not ‘good news’
IWasInSeinfeld
Member
I thought that they already had some sort of DRM built-in, interesting.
coffinbirth
Member
What do you mean by "setups"? It's just a Switch running homebrew.
Not my pic, but this is what it looks like if genuinely curious.
And for the record, I'd say that the vast majority of people that rip their own carts, myself included, aren't using them in Yuzu but rather it's to simply keep from swapping carts on the actual Switch. I have dicked around with it, but I wind up just playing it in portable mode in bed anyways. Once I get my Steam Deck, however, I might be singing a different tune.
Tams
Member
Geez, they must smell their own farts and eat their own shit over there. Scammers have more morals.
Edit: and this thread needs it's titled changed to include something that makes clear that no official Nintendo involvement has been announced. Far too much of this thread is people either blaming Nintendo or arguments stemming from those comments.
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Tams
Member
This is just wrong.
It's either ignorant or an attempt to rewrite history. I don't care which; it shouldn't be either.
Definition of ANALOGY
a comparison of two otherwise unlike things based on resemblance of a particular aspect; resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike : similarity… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com
Tams
Member
Literally no one here is defending Denuvo. No one. And I bothered to waste my time reading the entire thread.
Some are criticising piracy, and a few using ROMs for a platform you didn't buy a game on, but that's all.
keefged4
Member
In order to rip a switch game you already own, you need to have a switch in the first place, and a physical game cartridge - Again Nintendo have already made the money from the console and game itself, So I'll ask again, who is this hurting? Who's losing out here except for the likes of you who chose to be obtuse and tell others how they should play the games they have spent their own money on?
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
If your hardware allows you the freedom to do so, then why wouldn’t you opt for better performance and visuals?
You mean to tell me if Switch owners could rip Wii games to their Switch, and play them at better performance everyone would be like “no thanks”?
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
Guys don't look but there's a Nintendo ninja behind you right now.
Bragr
Banned
Do you really think he's ripping every game? of course he is also pirating. There has never been anyone who "rips" games who hasn't pirated a game.
Using emulators leads to pirate culture, it's a huge issue for Nintendo. And Nintendo produces games so people spend time on their consoles, so people buy subscriptions and accessories for their consoles, and becomes users and fans of their ecosystem.
Bragr
Banned
Of course. It's petty, you have to be an incredibly spoiled graphics whore to be that obsessed that you start to rip games. And as I said, this sort of practice always leads to piracy. It's the gateway drug and no sane console producer would want their users to do this.
keefged4
Member
I'm not talking about "him" pirating or those that do, I'm talking about what I've done in this scenario. Your logic is insane, it's clear you aren't willing to discuss this and just repeat PIRACY/EMULATION BAD etc etc. Enjoy your sub 720p, I'll continue to enjoy purchasing games and playing them however the hell I want. Even when this denuvo shit comes in, it'll get cracked eventually - The only one it harms is regular switch users, who will no doubt have to deal with cripplingly bad performance due to this.
Bragr
Banned
What exactly is the discussion you want to have here? piracy is bad. Emulation leads to piracy. Two pretty strong arguments. Why would I not repeat it when it's the main issue?
And as you said, you are not a regular Switch user, which tells the entire picture here.
lovetalkgames
Banned
PC gamers who pirate everything are some of the most loathsome people. They seemingly have such a low opinion of most games because there’s zero investment for them beyond the initial cost of building their machine. That hurts discussion and largely is why we see so many poop opinions get thrown around here and other places.
Is PC pirating even still a (non marginal) thing?
Ofc Nintndo, being arguably the most consumer-hostile company in gaming may have piracy issues under this premise.
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keefged4
Member
Nobody is disagreeing that piracy is bad. Adding Denuvo doesn't just harm them, it harms folks who are legally emulating also. This is the issue I have with it. You are missing the point and assuming that everyone who emulates pirates everything. I got a switch on day one, Played it religiously until Yuzu matured, at which point I could then go back and replay all the games in a much improved manner, to the point now where even new releases are substantially better when emulated vs being played natively on the switch itself. For people like me who still buy physical games and have the option of either settling for the switch natively, or an enchanced experience, why would I choose an inferior one? and why do you have such issue with this? Saying this is "Petty" comes across a like you are a tad jealous that you maybe don't have the resource to do this and are just shitting on people that can for the sake of it. Introducing Denuvo will not curb piracy. It will make things worse for everybody.