When you hype your universe up as having a universe and lore as big as Star Wars you'd better have a story to back it up.
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Destiny 2's biggest core change? "Probably the inclusion of a story," says Bungie
- Thread starter Crossing Eden
- Start date
Doublesith
Member
This is why I simply can't trust Bungie trying to hype up their new "story" Especially when their current story lead's previous two credits are Halo 4 and Mass Effect: Andromeda.
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
I'm with Brandon Jones from EZ allies in that the destruction of the tower is not just a plot tool, but a figurative admission of how much of a failure Destiny was a new story-driven IP.
So, this is not surprising.
Still, it's shocking how open they are about admitting it and hand waving it off.
I can't forgive it because I need the fantasy to propel me forward in the loot game.
And it was fine for the first year, but when 60 dollars became 100, then 140, 180, 200... for salvaged scraps of an abandoned story and new loot?
No.
.
So, this is not surprising.
Still, it's shocking how open they are about admitting it and hand waving it off.
I can't forgive it because I need the fantasy to propel me forward in the loot game.
And it was fine for the first year, but when 60 dollars became 100, then 140, 180, 200... for salvaged scraps of an abandoned story and new loot?
No.
.
Colossal Moo
Member
Unfortunately, Halo 2's story was bad and didn't make a lot of sense. For example, it wasn't clear why the Covenants Priest Leaders (the aliens with the long bendable necks) made the elite commander the Arbiter after demoting him. Bungie also never explained why the leaders promoted the brutes and demoted the elites. Finally, how the hell did the flood get into the Covenent city? The ending of Halo 1 implied that the flood were contained when the Master Chief destroyed the Halo ring. My big point is Halo 1 had a really good story but Halo 2's story was just bad. It didn't make sense and it really wasn't clear why things happened.
Don't worry you didn't miss much.
Blows me away people think TTK had a good story.
It was about as generic as you could get and had a cliff hanger they never followed through with through Eris. Cayde was the only good thing about that.
Ivory Samoan
Member
I'm in the boat that is hoping that the 'collectable lore bits' in D2 are somewhat grimoire like, so we get the best of both worlds: deep story narrative in-game and deep lore information in collectables.
Did you play Halo 2? Both of these questions are answered there. Arbiters are given the most perilous missions in the Covenant, so bestowing the title on that particular Elite was the equivalent of giving him a suicide mission, which would remove a thorn in the Prophets side. As for the Flood on High Charity, The Flood capture In Amber Clad when Keyes goes to find the Index and the infected crew members crash it into High Charity, which gives the Flood an entry point onto the city.
Hmm, did you watch the cinematics while playing Halo 2? I mean, all of this was explained actually, the Arbiter is a rank made for the purpose of shame and suicide-mission (explicitly tell during the third cinematic) since he was already supposed to be executed (better use your tool for a last mission than just kill it).
The Brutes were promoted because one of the Covenant's Priest Leaders was killed by the Master Chief (well, the player), so they were thinking Elite weren't really good guards.
The Flood get into High Charity using human's space-ships while they were chasing the Index (a sort of key) on the Halo Delta.
I mean, yeah, Halo 2 story wasn't perfect, and there is a lot to criticize, but all the points you mentioned were clearly explained during cinematics, so I'm not sure you really are pointing the right things when calling for "bad story" and bad explanations. ^^
Destiny has had more story for a while. Since Taken King, they really stepped up their game on the story front.
It just didn't go in the direction I cared about... and still doesn't... (Darkness vs Traveler)
Everything since the launch missions has felt like side-plots... not the main trunk of the story that Destiny set out to tell. Same goes for Destiny 2, it seems.
It just didn't go in the direction I cared about... and still doesn't... (Darkness vs Traveler)
Everything since the launch missions has felt like side-plots... not the main trunk of the story that Destiny set out to tell. Same goes for Destiny 2, it seems.
This myth that Halo was a well-told story needs to die.
As far as D2 is concerned - and boy is there a lot of 'concern' we need to come to terms with some inconvenient truths. It will never be quite the game of the forever it has the potential to be - the mountain top will forever be out of reach.
The Darkness
The Traveler
The Ahamkara
The Nine
All the really interesting stuff on the periphery will never make it in-game.
As far as D2 is concerned - and boy is there a lot of 'concern' we need to come to terms with some inconvenient truths. It will never be quite the game of the forever it has the potential to be - the mountain top will forever be out of reach.
The Darkness
The Traveler
The Ahamkara
The Nine
All the really interesting stuff on the periphery will never make it in-game.
"The tasks you must undertake as the Arbiter are perilous, suicidal. You will die, as each Arbiter has before you. The Council will have their corpse."
Pretty obvious it was because Brutes were more willing to blindly follow the prophets where some Elites were beginning to question the reasoning for the genocide of humans and pondering their loyalty to the prophets and the Great Journey. Master Chief killing the Prophet of Regret simply gave them a reason to do it.
The Gravemind used the Master Chief as a distraction and hijacked the UNSC ship In Amber Clad and used a procession slipspace jump to crash into and infect all of High Charity. This is shown and explained in the last two Master Chief levels.
No, it was directly stated by 343 Guilty Spark that there were other Installations which meant the Flood was not limited to Installation 04.
I don't want this to sound like an attack, but did you play the game? The majority of the story points you raise aren't mysteries, in the context of the game. And I don't mean it like it's revealed later; I mean they're pretty plainly spelled out when the event is introduced.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
The maddening thig is... They did. Then they flushed it all shortly before launch because ???
Nydius
Member
Only in that what they told was finally more cohesive. But even that was built on a poorly designed, cracked and and crumbling foundation. Not really sure I'd say that's a massive step up, though they did finally realize that they had some fan favorite characters so they might as well use them to their advantage (especially Cayde and Eris).
On this I 100% agree. Throughout the original game I kept waiting for it to rotate back to the beginning story about the Traveler vs. the Darkness but it never did. Nor did it ever return during the DLCs. It was just endless side arcs about stopping the Vex (which they didn't even really try to explain, hence the reason why the Stranger's line is so oft repeated sarcastically), stopping the Hive (twice), stopping the Fallen (twice; once solely to give us a glorified Horde mode), and the Cabal well, meh, they blow up planets and moons just for getting in their way but they're on Mars and no one cares about them.
On my main account I sunk 1300 hours into Destiny 1, 1000 on my main Warlock alone. I doubt I would have put in that much time had it not been for friends and my clan. In fact with the game winding down and most of them no longer playing, I haven't even touched the game so I can say for certain that it's been more social aspects that kept me playing than the game's story, lore, or, on some level, gameplay. Which is sad because I really had high hopes for this game, thinking it could have been Bungie's version of a Mass Effect level space opera with Bungie level gunplay. We got the gunplay at least (including Bungie's inability to balance shotguns...) but that was it.
Still interested in D2, but I'm holding off until I get to play the beta to see if I'll buy in at launch.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Uh what? Yes it was, they explicitly said that they were gonna be sending him on suicide missions until he died like past arbiters.
Because master chief got past the elites and killed a prophet.
It's more that you weren't paying attention. The Flood took over a ship and crashed it into the city.
EDIT:Beaten quite a bit. That's so odd that you missed all of these key story events since they were all told during in-game dialogue and cinematics.
Colossal Moo
Member
I played it twice. Once when it came out and then again when I played through all of the Halo games in the Master Chief Collection. You can check my gamer tag. It's Colossal Moo on Xbox Live.
Colossal Moo
Member
Thank you (and the other posters) for the explanations. The story makes more sense now.
Raven117
Member
This. In the end...they created a game where it is as awesome to shoot the juice box out of a vex at hour 1 as it is at hour 100, with some loot grinding end game activities that some even pose a challenge (like raids)...Moreover, the game is an absolute blast to play with some friends. In the end...thats all that matters.
Fun to play? Check
Fun to play with Friends? Check Check.
And just watch the money roll in.
Do I share most of the critiques everyone has here? Yup. Sure do. Do I know Im going to get my moneys worth out of the game (even at 100 bucks) and have a blast playing with NeoGaf and my IRL buddies? Yup.
And that, in the end, is all that really matters to me.
I think I'll let the developers decide what their game is and what it isn't.
That's a pretty much perfect summary of D1.
And that's precisely why it's been the enormous success that it has been.
That they're aiming to add to this a campaign more in line with what people expect from a conventional shooter and with a story that will resonate a bit more, it's hard to imagine D2 wont end up taking over the world.
D4rth Man7iz
Member
Are you sure you played Halo 2?
Astral Dog
Member
lol what a joke
BRocknRolla
Member
Based on their other interviews about the story...
Idontbelieveyou.gif
Idontbelieveyou.gif
Leyasu
Banned
Oh there will be content baby. So much
paid for with real monies
paid for
Monocle
Member
Good? I mean, that's what I wanted from the original. That and a lot of cool places to explore.
Halo 2 was overambitious but still good with its Covenant civil war sideplot, Halo 3 felt kinda rushed and narratively stripped down due to Bungie relegating the Arbiter to a sidekick role and spending way less time on nonhuman factions, and ODST was all around fantastic, the way it used the futuristic Earth city New Mombasa as the anchor point for a fractured flashback-oriented narrative that fully exploited the diversity of that setting.
Twilight Gap
Member
fans really loved our meat, sauces and sides so this time we're giving them the buns.
Neolombax
Member
After years of playing Destiny, I think I sort of got used to Destiny not having a strong main story campaign as its focus. Listening to Youtubers and reading Redditors piece together lore from the Grimoire Cards became something I looked forward to. I think its great that they're putting a huge emphasis on a main story, but I hope they would still include the Grimoire Cards to further flesh out the universe.
Gameplay wise, D2 looks super familiar. And that's fine. But part of me wants Bungo taking more risks. I want to play as other races with their own characteristics, or ride a Fallen Walker into a Nightfall or Raid or something. I want the ships to actually do something this time rather than a decoration for a loading. If this is a story about the Red War, why can't I use my ships to blast the Cabal out of the skies? That sorta thing...
Gameplay wise, D2 looks super familiar. And that's fine. But part of me wants Bungo taking more risks. I want to play as other races with their own characteristics, or ride a Fallen Walker into a Nightfall or Raid or something. I want the ships to actually do something this time rather than a decoration for a loading. If this is a story about the Red War, why can't I use my ships to blast the Cabal out of the skies? That sorta thing...
Exploratory
Banned
That ship has sailed.
Seriously? Well that's embarrassing..
Twilight Gap
Member
Every line of dialog in Halo 2 is good.
I miss that Bungie.
I miss that Bungie.
lifeexpectancy
Member
Thanks for that. People waving off Halo 1-3's plot/story as bad obviously werent paying attention. Halo 4 and 5 ruined the plot narrative for me personally, but CE, 2, and 3 were excellent.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yea it provides two opposite perspectives one of which is from the enemies in the first game while in a very short amount of time drastically expanding the lore by giving the covenant a society with it's own rules and such instead of being just well designed aliens like in Halo 1. Plus that music and editing. It's very well done.
So, the most interesting thing about D1's plot, The Darkness vs The Traveller has been completely thrown out? Ridiculous. I didn't even finish TTK's storyline because it was a messy boring thing.
Will not buy. Looks the same, will play the same and I have no clue what the Red War is.
Will not buy. Looks the same, will play the same and I have no clue what the Red War is.
I seriously doubt anyone responsible for D1's story is still at the studio.
yanipheonu
Member
The thing about Bungie is that they've always been a "gameplay first" company. Master Chief being a stoic and taciturn protagonist was an intentional choice for players more interested in just playing the game, with the story taking a backseat.
Some people actually dislike the 343 games putting too much story and scripted events into the game.
Some people actually dislike the 343 games putting too much story and scripted events into the game.
Uh, so Myth I and II are both baller stories that gained a lot from their cutscenes.
You could make a case for Oni too, but more as part of the entire aesthetic they were going for.
Mr. Nice_Guy
Member
Funny, because all the trailers and such for the first game lead me to believe that the first game was gonna have a pretty big story, and yet I've always heard nothing but the opposite. So why anyone believe them this time?
To be fair, they have already proven themselves with expansions after vanilla Destiny.
The Taken King had a solid enough story that finally gave focus to the NPCs so I expect Destiny 2 to go further in that direction.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Because unlike the first one this one seemingly didn't go through development hell?
You posted this same line of reasoning in another destiny 2 thread and im.having trouble following your logic. Destiny got ridiculed for having a non existent story, maybe the worst story I've ever seen in a game. That didn't mean that people couldn't also be apathetic about the story while also pointing that out. Additionally, them focusing on implementing something that should have been in the first game and is expected in most games, as the sequels biggest feature, is super disappointing. In no world does bungie operate under the dammed if you do, dammed if you don't dichotomy you posited.
joe_zazen
Member
.
Destiny was supposed to have been a 10 year journey, a new kind of game, a special game. Instead, D1 was a cobbled together perma-crunch game that they are now retconing, including destroying player characters. The hype and sales of D2 are not going to be on the same level as D1 because almost nobody expects D2 to be a groundbreaking 10 year journey.
anothertech
Member
I'm excited for destiny 2. Finally a story line. That will be great.
Just hope they have more to show than reskinned baddies from the first game, like they did for the first 2 years.
The open world size increases and 'dungeon' like explorable content will be interesting to see.
Really hoping we can finally go to 'that mountain over there' this time
Just hope they have more to show than reskinned baddies from the first game, like they did for the first 2 years.
The open world size increases and 'dungeon' like explorable content will be interesting to see.
Really hoping we can finally go to 'that mountain over there' this time
ScaryShark
Banned
This will go a long way for me. Having really great shooting is one thing, but if I can actually give a shit about what I'm partaking in I'm much more likely to stick with it.