Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
This didn't deter me. It's an old game with a basic patch. Things like FF VII Rebirth, F1 2024, and the upcoming Monster Hunter will be far more interesting.
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DF - Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart PS5 Pro vs PS5 Image Quality Face-Off
- Thread starter HeisenbergFX4
- Start date
PaintTinJr
Member
Agreed, but what is most interesting here is that there was no such use.
I like you reasoned about the quality of technical argument he makes after Gaiff tried to invalidate my criticism of (zoomed)cropped comparison shots at different minification levels due to different frustum setups on PS5 and Pro, and Bojji pre-emptively used all those photos in the next comment while replying to no-one - being homophobic - and conjuring up a complete strawman from nowhere to downplay my valid point, and to associate anyone validly criticising Alex's technical work as being homophobic.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Why wouldn't they be excited? Xbox one was super shit and One X offered 4.5x better GPU, 50% more RAM, few times faster RAM and over 30% better CPU. All that for 500$.
Compare that to Pro with 45% better GPU, same RAM amount (but faster), 10% better CPU and removed disc drive for 700$/800 Euro...
Pedro Motta
Member
They're really trying aren't they? Full of spunk the little minions.
Ironman_Bad
Member
Can't wait for the one x vs ps5pro head 2 heads!!
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Or it's simply fair criticism of his blatant hypocrisy? It's gotten to the point where his DF colleagues are beginning to call him out on it. It's ok to favor a particular platform, but don't waste everyone's time feigning impartiality and trying to pass off opinions as anything other than subjective.
CloudShiner
Member
They should replace Battaglia with NXGamer, far more balanced and better analysis too. Plus, he doesn't laugh like a fucking sealion at the start of every video.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
This is the point. BTW, unlocked the base PS5 actually averages closer to 50fps in Fidelity mode
My bet is that it would on the PRO. The base PS5 is already close to 50fps on average. You won't need need too much more GPU power to get it to 60fps
Based on the PS5 performance, the game doesn't need PSSR to hit 60fps in fidelity mode
No it doesn't. Which is why Performance RT and Performance mode push over 100fps when you dial down the resolution and settings.
Where did you pull the 20TF number from? Are you saying that it will need 2x the power of the base PS5 to hit 60fps? That's clearly not the case
Lots of misunderstanding and misinformation going on here. Let's recap:
Insomniac definitely has more in the oven with regards to PRO updates. They clearly are not doing a good job of communicating it with this pretty lame display of the Performance Pro mode. But in particular, these VRR modes should go into overdrive on the PRO even from the boost mode. Performance RT should be damn near locked at 120fps and and the fidelity mode should be near locked at 60fps. A bespoke patch for fidelity mode to add more RT and visual quality would be nice. We just need to see it in action.
- The base PS5 already PROVES that R&C left a ton of headroom in the native 4k/30fps locked fidelity mode. Once we got the 120hz and VRR support, the true unlocked performance is in the 40-60fps range with an average closer to 50fps! Quote from Wcctech: "On the other hand, though, the PlayStation 5 exclusive Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart received an enormous improvement with the PS5 VRR update, reaching up to 110 FPS once the frame rate is unlocked in RT Performance Mode. Fidelity Mode also gets a significant increase in frame per second, going near 60 FPS from the previously locked 30 FPS, though on average it hovers around 50 FPS."
- Based on that performance, you clearly don't need 2x the PS5 base or 20TF to hit 60fps. In fact, the (modest) 45-50% GPU uplift alone should be more than enough to yield a relatively locked 4K/60 on the PRO. No PSSR is even needed to get there. Raw GPU perf should be able to take ~40fps up to ~60fps already. But the game spends most of it's time ABOVE 40fps in fidelity mode so you wouldn't even need the full GPU uplift to get to 60fps.
- The game is clearly not CPU bound when running at or near 60fps! By definition, a CPU bound game would not get additional performance when lower GPU related settings like resolution. The Performance RT and Performance modes running at lower resolution and detail settings clearly perform at nearly 2x the framerate of the fidelity mode!! Please stop saying this
- The issue is that R&C actually appears to be one of the easiest cases for a native 4k/60 option on PRO since the base game already performs so well. In fact, the "Ultra Boost Mode" should take the DRS and unlocked FPS and push it to 4k/60 natively already (it only needs an addition 20-25% GPU bump to get there). That could yield a better result than this "Performance Pro" mode unless PSSR is producing results that are superior to native. Even then, the graphics settings and RT quality would be superior in the Fidelity mode. No patch needed and no PSSR needed.
- The "Performance PRO" mode is even less impressive with you consider than those lucky enough to have a 120hz VRR TV can already enjoy the performance RT mode on the base PS5 at 90+ FPS! So now we get a slightly sharper Performance RT mode with similar resolution to the base at 60fps. Yeah pretty lame!
- The benefits of a bespoke patch for fidelity mode could be to use PSSR to claw back some perf and add in additional RT (RT shadows and higher quality reflections). This should be able to still hit reconstructed 4K/60fps using PSSR which would clearly be the best way to play the game.
The idea is that the PRO should be better than this right?
Yes it should and we should all be expecting better than what Sony has been showing us. Good post btw. Sony at the very least is doing a shitty job diceminating information about this console..
Lysandros
Member
None of the DF team would want Michael (who is far more knowledgeable) among them. An he isn't very fond of them either.
Vick
Member
It'll be interesting to see which Thread gets more engagement, the negative or the positive one.
Self_Destructive
Member
What about it is "spicy"? If that's what the Pro runs it like on low settings that garbage.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
XXL
Member
Self_Destructive
Member
Because you can CLEARLY see that it's running lower settings.
Uh. The pro In this clips look way better. Seem to be on high setting with RT. Go watch Oliver hand on and stop spewing nonsense.
Cleary wrong.
Same clips compare to both high and low setting of the base ps5. Your telling me it low setting compare to thr base ps5? Get a pair of glass please.
Self_Destructive
Member
PS5 running on low settings gets damn close to 60fps as of the latest patch.... They tested to remove the GPU as much from the equation as possible..
Oliver pixel counted Sony's PS5 Pro footage and said PS5 base is pushing around 4 million pixels.. where as PS5 Pro, is pushing 1080p (2 million pixels) and upscaling with PSSR..
Again... how the hell is that "spicy"?
Huhuhhuh. Read your reply. You said the pro on low setting. In fact, it is the opposite, it is on high setting with RT. This have nothing to do with resolution.
It does not matter how the Pro set it internal res. It look and run better than the even the base ps5 on high. Am I arguing with a 5 years old here?
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Self_Destructive
Member
The Pro looks worse in that tweet.. outside of resolution. And I said IFFFFFF the Pro is running low settings... in my first post.. It clearly looks like it in that tweet. You posting a video from another source doesn't change that. Just wait until Michael releases his video.
And yes, it does matter that it's literally pushing half the pixels of the base console lmfao! That completely affects "how impressive" it is. You'd expect a console with a ~45% increase in compute, plus PSSR... to render a higher internal resolution to improve the reconstruction output even further...
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Crispy Gamer
Member
That's a big difference Oliver already confirmed Pro version is running RTGI so I'm sure it's high settings but the PS5 version looks really flat compared so I need to see the video
CloudShiner
Member
However people slice this, Pro is gonna be better than the base, a lot better on some games. You'd think it was an objectively worse performing console if you believed some of the crazy comments on here.
I know copers gotta cope, but I can't wait for my Pro and I'm sure glad I've got that rather than spend the next 3 or 4 years with the short straw of trying to claim there's 'no difference' and 'Pro could be better' and all that crap on any article they see about it.
I know copers gotta cope, but I can't wait for my Pro and I'm sure glad I've got that rather than spend the next 3 or 4 years with the short straw of trying to claim there's 'no difference' and 'Pro could be better' and all that crap on any article they see about it.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Ok, and how much ML inferencing computations is PS5 pushing vs Pro?
Silly me, I thought the end results were the determining factor.
SKYF@ll
Member
According to a Capcom spokesperson, a patch is being developed to allow the PS5 Pro version to maintain 55-60 fps at the highest image quality settings.
https://www.famitsu.com/article/202409/18848
https://www.famitsu.com/article/202409/18848
Self_Destructive
Member
It's rendering 2x the pixels. How much of that ~45% Pro improvement in compute goes to inferencing? All of it? ....
There's nothing impressive about something with almost 50% more compute power, pushing 50% less pixels than the base console... being a bit more performant than the base console.
I'm basing my results off of how impressively it's utilizing the hardware. Sorry, but it's rendering half the pixels of the base PS5 version... There's nothing impressive about it running a bit better when that's the case.. Even looking at the footage Sony's released.. I can see clear issues with the reconstruction regarding the foliage. The picture you posted doesn't even look great. Not sure what kind of flex you were going for there.
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ap_puff
Member
I'm just gonna say it. The default PS5 version already looks fantastic and even though the pro version is better side by side, I likely wouldnt care about that level of upgrade. The reason to get a pro isnt Sony first party games which almost always come out technically excellent even in the 60fps modes. It's for shit like FF16 and FF7R. Elden Ring. Jedi Survivor. It's dumb that Sony chose to advertise the pro with their own titles, but that's probably because they'd have to pay for the rights to use 3rd party games in marketing, and the current leadership seems to be stingy AF.If you need to zoom in to see the difference, then you need glasses.
Wtf you talking about. The video I posted is the the main source of that pic. How is that that pic look worst? That pic of the pro contains RTGI with preceive better image quality with high setting cuz low setting does not have ray tracing.
The reason I posted the video because it contains more footages and information to compare not just images on twitter.
Yea, I am actually talking to 5 years old. if I were you I'll listen to your advice, stop talking nonsense and wait for Michael.
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
Doubtful. The SSD prices havent really gone down and that 2TB costs $200 by itself. They raised the price to compensate for that. XsX has older tech which doesnt cost as much 3 years later so they are def making more profit than SONY. Also in order for SONY to make the profit you are talking about they need to sell a ton which wont be the case, it wasnt with the PS4 Pro, it most definately wont be withe the PS5 pro which is $300 more. Its never going to make any outstanding sales numbers.
All these "sold out" signs now we know are bought mostly by scalpers and they arent producing even close to the number of the OG PS5's because of obvious reasons.
ap_puff
Member
Sony buys SSDs in bulk, going from 1TB to 2TB of pcie gen 4 NAND flash is going to cost $40-50 at most, and those are at spot prices. Contract prices for several million units will be even lower. That said I'm sure the reason the PS5 Pro costs $700 instead of $600 is because they want to make profits instead of losing money, and I can't really fault them for that when PC components are 40%-60%+ margin to AMD/nvidia.
Calico345
Gold Member
PS5 Pro is a con. This gen has been a waste overall, a few outlying games aside. There was never a need for a mid-gen refresh, corpo probing aside. PS6 will need to do more than this and at no more than $600, WITH a disc drive and WITH a stand, or else Sony is going to have big problems on the PlayStation front.
Skifi28
Member
If they sell a box with nothing inside, sure.
PaintTinJr
Member
Yeah, that picture is a perfect example, because anyone that's used or even just played around with the particle system in 3D Blender to do fur will tell you that the fur in the Pro image closer to offline rendering than the image on the left and would require multitudes of 45% extra GPU performance gains to do with native rendering.Ok, and how much ML inferencing computations is PS5 pushing vs Pro?
Silly me, I thought the end results were the determining factor.
PSSR for spectrally analysing and inferencing fur, foliage and any other objects modelled/simulated with thin geometry that creates high frequency noise in motion or camera motion or looks aliased when statically still at sparse densities is going to massively outstrip the compute to native rendering situation at more than 1 : 4 IMO.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
So this gen’s “issues” are Sony’s fault? Nothing at all wrong with that other “mid-gen refresh”?
And an optional upgrade isn’t a “con” to anything.
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Zathalus
Member
Of course there is no need. It’s certainly a nice to have for those that want to upgrade though. The regular PS5 won’t suddenly stop working, so nobody is forced to upgrade.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
It’s crazy that this even needs to be said.
Calico345
Gold Member
You can twist what I said into whatever cute little narrative agenda you have in your head. I'm not blaming Sony specifically for anything more or less than anyone else. YOU are mentioning anyone else. If you're referring to Nintendo Switch's OLED models, I'm not advocating for them nor excusing them from anything this gen. If you want to demonize me as some anti-Sony guy, at least wait until I develop a post history proving as much. (Note: it won't happen, because I don't align myself blindly to any corpo. I currently use my PS5 for 99% of my gaming, but I don't excuse their bullshit either.)
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Twist? That entire post was an attack on one company for this gen’s problem. It’s fine if you want to clarify/switch up now, but getting that defensive leads me to believe otherwise.
In any event, I was talking about the Series X. Second, the “issues” this gen faces are not one company’s problem, but a cluster of business decisions that need improvement all around. The Pro isn’t a cause for that, though. You’re obviously complaining because you don’t like most of the games released, but that’s a YOU problem. Not everyone feels that way and game sales haven’t suffered (at least on PlayStation). Clearly something is working on their end.
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Calico345
Gold Member
Whatever you say, friend! XD
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Yep.
For int8 the base PS5 is capable of a little over 41tops of performance and double that of int4. The PS5 is also capable of 20 tflops of FP16. That is the whole theoretical performance of the PS5 just doing those types of operations.Ok, and how much ML inferencing computations is PS5 pushing vs Pro?
Silly me, I thought the end results were the determining factor.
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saintjules
Gold Member
Incoming
Vick
Member
Prepare for an earth-shattering, absolute shitshow of colossal proportions, all entirely sponsored by big brain Mike Fitzgerald.Incoming
We should start making bets on whether or not they'll disable sharpness entirely on PC for this comparison..
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Prepare for an earth-shattering, absolute shitshow of colossal proportions, all entirely sponsored by big brain Mike Fitzgerald.
We should start making bets on whether or not they'll disable sharpness entirely on PC for this comparison..
I gotta say Alex did a pretty good job with this video. Good methodology applied which is all I ever asked from him.
JimboJones
Member
They do show sharpening at 0 and max on PC compared to PS5.Prepare for an earth-shattering, absolute shitshow of colossal proportions, all entirely sponsored by big brain Mike Fitzgerald.
We should start making bets on whether or not they'll disable sharpness entirely on PC for this comparison..
It's a little soft of PS5 but it can have advantages on edges, more of subjective thing whether you think it looks better or not.
It's kind of similar to how he covered XeSS, some pro some cons, but generally very positive.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Gaffers praising Alex
Get to work, you!
Xaeroxcore666
Member
So:
- No 60 FPS Fidelity Mode.
- Newer artifacts due to PSSR.
- Differences noticeables with 2X to 4X zoom, not so much when you are actually playing, and better if you put it against base PS5 perf mode.
- No disc drive and $700.
The only real solid added value PS5 Pro has so far is the 2TB SSD...
But what really amuzes me is there are people defending passionately this...we didnt want a Pro, we need more games like this Ratchet and Clank that really push our current PS5. Nothing else. Sony and the Pro sellers/defenders can go F* themselves.
- No 60 FPS Fidelity Mode.
- Newer artifacts due to PSSR.
- Differences noticeables with 2X to 4X zoom, not so much when you are actually playing, and better if you put it against base PS5 perf mode.
- No disc drive and $700.
The only real solid added value PS5 Pro has so far is the 2TB SSD...
But what really amuzes me is there are people defending passionately this...we didnt want a Pro, we need more games like this Ratchet and Clank that really push our current PS5. Nothing else. Sony and the Pro sellers/defenders can go F* themselves.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Get to work, you!
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