[Digital Foundry] Are Current Generation Graphics A Bit Of A Let Down?

Ozzie666

Member
I'm more than happy with graphics level of PS4 or PS5 level. Don't care about PC and maximizing graphics. Developement times are going to increase to 10-15 years at this rate, unless tools or catch up fast enough. Develpoers closing at a record pace, this is a uselss pusruist right now. Nice to leave something to the imagination in terms of visuals.

Game performance is more important than increased visual fidelity.
 
I think as some get older they naturally begin to dislike gaming but they are afraid of getting older so they get peter pan syndrome and invest heavily in gaming even though they no longer enjoy it and can barely bring themselves to play it. Yet they don't want to lose such a strong tie to their youth so they are gamers in name only. GINO. If you think about it, this HAS to be a thing right? We are just arguing about the number of people it affects.

I think you’re onto something there.

I’m finding myself buying new games only to get bored and drop them about half way through.

However I’m enjoying my old games from the 90s and early 00s as much as I ever did.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
What's the point of being overwhelmed when it turns into a blur fest that just feels bad at 30 in motion

60 is fine, but consoles definitely don't need to be focusing on beyond 4K 60 any time soon, we probably jumped to 4K too early when we weren't even close to photorealistic graphics at FHD

I don't really get wanting more graphics at 30 when the motion resolution is so, so much worse, personally
I preferred me graphics at 30 on previous consoles.
But graphics are so good nowadays even at 60, that it’s not a sacrifice anymore.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Just started playing The Last of Us Part 1 on PC. It's an ancient game from the PS3 era. I'm also playing RDR2 in bursts. Both of these games look great to me.
Tlou part 1 is a 2022 ps5 game. No ps3 asset remains
 
The current consoles are quite capable but there are only a handful of teams that have enough financial backing that can afford to max out the visuals anymore.

That’s the real limiter we are starting to run up against. Every gen there are fewer and fewer games that could only run on the new technology. It’s not because of lack of new hardware ceilings it’s because it’s economically unviable to spend this much to make games.
 

Soodanim

Member
I'm happy with PS2 textures at modern resolutions, framerates, and IQ. Any graphical improvements are bonuses to me, but if I can't hit a decent fps then it's a trade off I don't like making.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
No, the problem is that there are too many cross gen titles.

This is inevitable due to development timescales.

To build a title "from the ground up" for any sort of hardware needs devs to start fully aware of what its capabilities are. This projected level of performance is then factored into the design, and then that design is executed with any changes required along the way to hit the intended targets.

This process takes years.

And you can't really short-cut it because if you are just "shooting in the dark" you're either going to be overly conservative and stick with safe tweaks like minor adjustments to things like res or frame-rate, or risk digging yourself into development hell by over committing.

Add to this that the best way to gain experience and understanding is to go through an entire project cycle, then do a post-mortem, and carry the results forward when planning the next thing. Which of course is doubling up on multiple years of effort!

There's no easy solution because although dev cycles have increased something like 4 fold over the last 20 years, product generation lengths have remained mostly the same because of hardware manufacturers/platform holders sticking to more or less the same cadence.
 
Yes and no, the majority is underwhelming because most AAA devs are to unskilled or to unfunded.
Not enough "art" styles out there as most are aiming for realisim but lack the skill to achieve it and are relying on Unreal to carry them.
 

SweetTooth

Gold Member
Synless about one of the best looking games this gen:

Can play a comparable looking version on a ps4….

We are in a very disappointing era of graphics.


Synless in Xenoblade thread on Switch:

Bruh, no fan gives a fuck about those resolutions. Would it have been nice? Yup! Does it matter for Nintendo’s GOATED JRPG series? Fuck no!

Switch owners ate good, still eating.

Hypocrisy to the MAX lol
 
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Synless

Member
Synless about one of the best looking games this gen:




Synless in Xenoblade thread on Switch:



Hypocrisy to the MAX lol
Wrong, switch is what it is. It can’t magically make better graphics. Systems like PS5 and Xbox are NOT being pushed to the max, this is disappointing when graphics are compatible on last gen systems. Not a goal post move, this is my stance, always has been.

If switch 2 comes out with games that look comparable to the switch 1 graphics… guess what!? I’ll call them disappointing.
 
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Wrong, switch is what it is. It can’t magically make better graphics. Systems like PS5 and Xbox are NOT being pushed to the max, this is disappointing when graphics are compatible on last gen systems. Not a goal post move, this is my stance, always has been.

If switch 2 comes out with games that look comparable to the switch 1 graphics… guess what!? I’ll call them disappointing.
We already saw one, and it makes me ever so slightly worried. You don't go from 0.2 to 1.8 TFLOPs and end up with the MK footage we saw.
 

Synless

Member
We already saw one, and it makes me ever so slightly worried. You don't go from 0.2 to 1.8 TFLOPs and end up with the MK footage we saw.
Agreed, from the snippets they showed I couldn’t have told you what was different from that and MK8. Proper reveal will tell more but right now, looked pretty underwhelming given the new hardware.
 
I've said it before, but its worth repeating: game development pipelines have changed, and are continuing to change, to prioritise the developer. That means a push to real time, a push for more programmatic solutions, a push for engines to handle more and more out of the box. And that costs extra CPU cycles, extra memory, and extra frames. Graphics can't improve if games are struggling to hit 30FPS because the developer used every real time effect in the book to speed up development so they could actually ship a game before they went bankrupt. Why is this happening? Because AAA games take as long as an entire console generation and $300m to make now. Even Sony, who spent USD$250m on titles like TLOU2 on the PS4, isn't seeing enough return on their investment to justify this kind of expense anymore. Something has to give. Combined with the seeming collapse of the western AAA sphere as Asia resurges back into dominance, a lot of developers are just trying to stay in the game. As more AAA studios go under, I believe we'll continue to see the top talents re-form new AA studios, licence an Engine, and ship a AA game with a dramatically smaller budget - and that means less developers pushing the limits of the hardware.
That seems to be exactly what is happening now. I don't think your take on this subject could be more sensible.
 
There's been a lot of graphically impressive games this gen, it's just hard to tell if they run poorly. When they run great, it can be jaw dropping. Avowed, Silent Hill 2 and Demons Souls come to mind. Callisto, Talos Principle II, Outlaws... There's stuff there.

I would say RE4 Remake is but there's a lot of low poly textures for foliage that took me out of it a bit.
No Hellblade 2? Seriously?
 

NahaNago

Member
It can't be helped when you double the framerate and increase the resolution of these games you can't improve the graphics as much. We should get a more noticeable upgrade in graphics next gen since 4k and 60 fps will be the norm most likely but with even better hardware. I really hope we don't move to 8k for the ps6 and xb2.
 

Sony

Nintendo
They're a massive letdown. Which makes sense based on how both Sony and Microsoft apporach their latest boxes:
PS5 = PS4ProMax
Series X = OneX-Pro

Sony is the biggest fraud in this regard with their whole we believe in generations BS that all the PS fans ate up.
 

Fabieter

Member
People always say graphics ain't important and budgets shouldn't baloon even more. Well making games more realistic is super expensive.
 

Lethal01

Member
Lower the resolution to 480p and you're probably good to go.
Sure, as soon as every game gives me the option to ray trace everything.

People always say graphics ain't important and budgets shouldn't baloon even more. Well making games more realistic is super expensive.

i'd imagine that the people asking for less focus on graphics arent the same ones complaining about the graphics.
OR if they are its probably along the lines of "The graphics havent improved that much, id rather they had focused on something else".
 

Fabieter

Member
i'd imagine that the people asking for less focus on graphics arent the same ones complaining about the graphics.
OR if they are its probably along the lines of "The graphics havent improved that much, id rather they had focused on something else".

We see all kind of complains all over the internet if any game shows graphical flaws.
 

Fabieter

Member
The internet is a big place where people who lots of differing opinions, seing it said alot does not mean everyone thinks it.

So point is they can't win why should they bother for either side. Of course the internet is a big place but some people also have big double standards that's no secret.
 

kevboard

Member
i'd imagine that the people asking for less focus on graphics arent the same ones complaining about the graphics.

the issue isn't the focus on graphics, but that the focus is going into the wrong direction.

developers focus on pushing more and more expensive effects that look good in still images,
when the real focus should be on creating an image in motion that looks as cohesive as possible.

the exact opposite is happening, temporal stability has never been worse. we are at a point where character hair in UE5 games looks worse than PS2 era hair, due to the fact that it's entirely dithered and only held together by shitty TAA smearing.

due to the push for high end rendering effects, the internal render resolution is lower than last gen, which in return means everything is smeared over because shadows, hair, raytracing and even clouds run at even lower resolutions than the already low resolution the game reaches, as all these effects use dithering... essential everything runs checkerboarded, on top of an already low resolution.

then there's the fact that raytracing will look worse the less rays are shot into the scene, the low internal resolution means a low number of rays, which then means that the denoising algorithm has to create cohesive looking shadows and/or reflections out of an extremely low amount of actual image information, which then leads to further flicker, boiling and an unstable looking image.

and then, there's FSR2, which again is basically a necessity because of the extremely low resolution which is caused by that chase for expensive effects.
and FSR2 and similar reconstruction methods look extremely unstable and dithered.

all in all, games look worse now than they did on the One X
 
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Lethal01

Member
the issue isn't the focus on graphics, but that the focus is going into the wrong direction.

developers focus on pushing more and more expensive effects that look good in still images,
when the real focus should be on creating an image in motion that looks as cohesive as possible.

Nah, when people are claiming modern games aren't a big enough upgrade they mean that they want more of those high quality effect. They point to CGI tech demo's with pathtracing and say "this is what PS5 games should look like",
 

kevboard

Member
Nah, when people are claiming modern games aren't a big enough upgrade they mean that they want more of those high quality effect. They point to CGI tech demo's with pathtracing and say "this is what PS5 games should look like",

you are right, and these people are casuals that don't play games, they are graphics whores who walk 10m then stop and make screenshots in photo mode for an hour.

anyone who actually PLAYS games will instantly see how awful games look in motion nowadays. the moment you actually move your camera you will see half of the elements on screen quite literally break apart. the moment a character is in front of you and moves his head, his hair will look like it's running at 240p... because that figure isn't even that far off probably.

I have never played new games as absolutely ugly as some recent releases. by "new game" I mean, a game that just released on what at that time is/was a current gen console. and it was almost never the case in the past that there were so many AAA and AA titles that you can point to, that look worse than last gen games... indy games sure, but Monster Hunter Wilds for example looks worse than multiple PS4 and Xbox One launch titles... this has never happened before in the history of videogames.

we are in a situation where developers push for graphical "improvements" that are very minor in their appearance, but extremely impactful in terms of performance. and when you do that, something has to give. and so now we have dithered hair, dithered clouds, dithered ambient occlusion, dithered shadows, dithered GI and a low internal resolution.
games running at 1080p, with all the stuff listed above running at half of that resolution. that's an insane downgrade compared to many last gen games.
 

JaxarGT

Neo Member
I think current gen visuals look great for the most part. Hell I'm still playing PS4 games and they still look great.

I think the big thing letting gaming down is enemy AI. It feels like AI hasn't much improved since the PS2 days and that's one area that really needs more innovation.
 

Durin

Member
I just want stuttering, bad performance and not finished releases to go away...whatever compromise to visuals to get that is fine because graphics have looked good enough since the PS4 gen.

I'm fine with iterative improvements to fidelity from now on, just give me good art direction/style. The Switch 2 will hit good enough visuals, and be portable.
 
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