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[Digital Foundry] Super Mario Bros Wonder - A Switch Masterpiece

Draugoth

Gold Member


Super Mario Bros Wonder is the best 2D Mario title since 1995's Yoshi's Island, dripping in creativity, joy and polish. John Linneman goes deep on this milestone Switch game, shares why he wasn't so keen on its New Super Mario Bros predecessors and reveals the four pillars of a great platformer... and how SMBW nails them all.

00:00 - Introduction
01:28 - What Makes a Platform Game Great
?02:06 - Core Gameplay Mechanics - The First Pillar
03:24 - Comparisons with Super Mario U
04:53 - Let's Talk Graphics
05:42 - Mario Moves like a Sprite?!
07:24 - The Goombas Have Eyes
08:38 - The Backgrounds
10:28 - Resolution and Performance
12:01 - My Thoughts on Sound and Platform Games
15:18 - The New Sound of Mario
21:49 - Level Design
25:19 - Let's Finish This
 
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amigastar

Member
I dunno why people suddenly love this game when yall hated New Super Mario Bros, it's literally the same.
That's a good question. But is it the same as NSMB? (Imo it is but i haven't played it for very long) And the 93 MC Score doesn't come out of nowhere.
 
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Interfectum

Member
I dunno why people suddenly love this game when yall hated New Super Mario Bros, it's literally the same.
bitch slap GIF
 

Interfectum

Member
I did, it's normal improvements in graphics/animation/art style, but NSMB played and looked great for the time, yet people shat on it at every chance.
"people"

The game sold millions. It's a good game and some people are just sick of it because it's all we've had for years (since 2006 iirc). Wonder is a breath of fresh air and a nice evolution of the series. Doesn't take anything away from NSMB and it will probably age well over time once we aren't sick of it anymore.
 
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diffusionx

Gold Member
I did, it's normal improvements in graphics/animation/art style, but NSMB played and looked great for the time, yet people shat on it at every chance.
Most of the video is literally talking about how it differentiates itself from NSMB. Like, he puts it side by side and explains the differences and why they make the game better.

I don't really care, I'm not planning on playing this (I think I've gotten too old for these games lmao), but come on man.
 
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Katajx

Member
I dunno why people suddenly love this game when yall hated New Super Mario Bros, it's literally the same.
If you mean that it’s a 2D mario game, and you play as Mario then you are right.

Even from the first few levels, it does not feel the “same”. What is the point you are trying to make?

It’s a sequel, the new presentation is nice, everything is an upgrade here unless you look at it through a narrow lens that it’s a 2D platform we and you jump on a flagpole at the end.

This is an actual generational leap for 2D Mario.
 

Saber

Gold Member
Gonna enjoy watching John jumping from this game to Sonic Superstar.

I dunno why people suddenly love this game when yall hated New Super Mario Bros, it's literally the same.

As I said in other threads, they have to reinvent themselves with this one. Bring new and weird stuff to the table. The core maybe the same, but the game itself is different. Its just like saying SF4 is the same as the other fighting games because you fight and characters have movesets.
 
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SimTourist

Member
If you mean that it’s a 2D mario game, and you play as Mario then you are right.

Even from the first few levels, it does not feel the “same”. What is the point you are trying to make?

It’s a sequel, the new presentation is nice, everything is an upgrade here unless you look at it through a narrow lens that it’s a 2D platform we and you jump on a flagpole at the end.

This is an actual generational leap for 2D Mario.
It's just a strange change of heart compared to the entries on the 3DS and Wii U. When the console is not popular people seem to trash the games too.
 

Fbh

Member
The changes to momentum they mention sound nice. I always found the new 3D Mario games to feel weird and heavy.
 

BbMajor7th

Member
Have to disagree with him on the music. The choices he picked out didn't illustrate his point to me. I thought the opening theme to Wonder was pretty much as uninspired and milquetoast as the NSMB U theme and I thought the underground theme from Wonder was the least interesting of the three - the melody was hella repetitive and really just doesn't go anywhere. There's no real development of the theme in the sample he shared, just a few minor variants on the same two-bar line - opinions may vary, etc. etc. but from a purely compositional perspective, he's not really making a strong argument - the NSMB U underground melody has more going on, despite the repetition, it moves around a little and has a fun little transitional phrase with irregular rhythms and triplets.
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
Dont trust the reviews on this one, going to wait till the dust settles

Hated NSMB series and this still looks like a Mario game made in Flash to me, with generic art and music.

Nowhere close to the artistic charm of something like Super Mario World this is getting falsely compared to
 
I dunno why people suddenly love this game when yall hated New Super Mario Bros, it's literally the same.

Watched the video, you're right. People dunking on you are laughable.

Not "literally" the same, but essentially.

I get the nuance of "new powers, new visuals, new animations, and less momentum" and how that impacts the way a game feels.

But, common people, it's a 2d Mario side scroller. I don't care how sensitive your wine pallet is. This is for people who enjoy that very broad category of game, which NSMB fits into as well almost identically.

It's okay to like one over the other, but hating one and loving the other are what crazy bitches do.
 
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Dr.D00p

Member
Have to disagree with him on the music. The choices he picked out didn't illustrate his point to me.

Obviously very subjective on a game by game basis. He thought the soundtrack to the 'new' Jet Set Radio game was fantastic, I thought it was garbage.

..Yet I agree with him on this one 100%
 

LakeOf9

Member
Dont trust the reviews on this one, going to wait till the dust settles

Hated NSMB series and this still looks like a Mario game made in Flash to me, with generic art and music.

Nowhere close to the artistic charm of something like Super Mario World this is getting falsely compared to
It sounds like you had made up your mind on the game ahead of time and in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary you’re continuing to dig your heels in. You do you I guess.
 

MacReady13

Member
Dont trust the reviews on this one, going to wait till the dust settles

Hated NSMB series and this still looks like a Mario game made in Flash to me, with generic art and music.

Nowhere close to the artistic charm of something like Super Mario World this is getting falsely compared to
As a gamer who is in love with all things Mario (Super Mario World being my fav game of all time along with Resident Evil 4) I can tell you now that this is as close to perfection as you can get! Game is a fucking masterpiece and if it doesn't better Super Mario World, then it comes damn close. It is just so fucking brilliant.

In fact right now, this is far and away my game of the year! The level design is genius. Sony can try all they like with their top tier devs but NO ONE comes close to making games as good as Nintendo, and Wonder shows why. Best 2D Mario game since Super Mario World in my opinion, and I adored Yoshi's Island. I'm also a fan of the NSMB series of games, especially the remake of the Wiiu version on Switch.
 
AAA studios spending half a decade to get cutting edge graphics, and half assing every other aspect of their games.

But this game on ancient and weak hardware is more pleasing to my eyes visually than any of them, and plays way better. How is Nintendo so much better at this than everyone else?
 
AAA studios spending half a decade to get cutting edge graphics, and half assing every other aspect of their games.

But this game on ancient and weak hardware is more pleasing to my eyes visually than any of them, and plays way better. How is Nintendo so much better at this than everyone else?
It's probably something to do with them actually having a deep passion for video games and whilst it's about making money, they actually care about making good games. Most other publishers couldn't give a shit, they just want to see bigger numbers. It's probably a lot to do with Japanese culture too.
 

MacReady13

Member
AAA studios spending half a decade to get cutting edge graphics, and half assing every other aspect of their games.

But this game on ancient and weak hardware is more pleasing to my eyes visually than any of them, and plays way better. How is Nintendo so much better at this than everyone else?
They only care about the core values of gaming, which is gameplay, level design and control. Whilst every other dev is trying to make the most realistic looking items in a game or trying to out do Hollywood with their shit storytelling, Nintendo is interested in the one thing we actually play games for- gameplay. No one ever has or seemingly ever will do it better than Nintendo.
 

6502

Member
Dont trust the reviews on this one, going to wait till the dust settles

Hated NSMB series and this still looks like a Mario game made in Flash to me, with generic art and music.

Nowhere close to the artistic charm of something like Super Mario World this is getting falsely compared to
This looks better but I would have liked papermario visuals in a full 2d mario. Sprite version would have been welcome too.

I hope the music is much more varied than nsmb. Miss the unique sounds / tracks of each new game we had back in the 2d era.
 

Marvel14

Banned




00:00 - Introduction
01:28 - What Makes a Platform Game Great
?02:06 - Core Gameplay Mechanics - The First Pillar
03:24 - Comparisons with Super Mario U
04:53 - Let's Talk Graphics
05:42 - Mario Moves like a Sprite?!
07:24 - The Goombas Have Eyes
08:38 - The Backgrounds
10:28 - Resolution and Performance
12:01 - My Thoughts on Sound and Platform Games
15:18 - The New Sound of Mario
21:49 - Level Design
25:19 - Let's Finish This

Enter the antiNintendo it's just NSMBU DLC crowd....
Walking In Woody Harrelson GIF by Zombieland
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
It sounds like you had made up your mind on the game ahead of time and in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary you’re continuing to dig your heels in. You do you I guess.

Not made up, just going to wait and see really. NSMB wasn't my thing. And I envision a 2D Mario game with more...artristry on display both visually, mechanically, and aurally than what I am seeing so far.

These new 2D mario games look like something Ubisoft would make rather than old school Nintendo
 
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BbMajor7th

Member
Obviously very subjective on a game by game basis. He thought the soundtrack to the 'new' Jet Set Radio game was fantastic, I thought it was garbage.

..Yet I agree with him on this one 100%
No accounting for taste, I suppose - I think it's maybe a bit of doomed task to argue for something like that as ultimately people will like or they won't.
 

Cashon

Banned
The changes to momentum they mention sound nice. I always found the new 3D Mario games to feel weird and heavy.
I find it weird that I've been seeing and hearing references to them being "heavy." They're very floaty to me, which is associated with lightness.

Donkey Kong Country Returns and Tropical Freeze are excellent examples, in my opinion, of actually being heavy.
 

Saber

Gold Member
That new version of Sonic 4 awfull music that John uses as an example sounds as bad as the original and even manages to sound annoying. John really deserves someone to tell him that whatever the crap he hears doesn't mean its actually good. Check your ears and your taste abit.
 

Synless

Member
That new version of Sonic 4 awfull music that John uses as an example sounds as bad as the original and even manages to sound annoying. John really deserves someone to tell him that whatever the crap he hears doesn't mean its actually good. Check your ears and your taste abit.
I was utterly perplexed by that shit example for music he used. In no way was it better and sure as shit not a good example.
 

YCoCg

Gold Member
I was utterly perplexed by that shit example for music he used. In no way was it better and sure as shit not a good example.
I'm surprised he didn't use the Tee Lopes remix for that example as that's the theme remade in a modern instrumental style


As for the music in Wonder, I have to agree it's better than NSMB though it still retains one of the things I found annoying in that series, which is the damn acapella samples, however the example he used for Underground is pretty good, like the more brooding sound of it
 

Fess

Member
Dont trust the reviews on this one, going to wait till the dust settles

Hated NSMB series and this still looks like a Mario game made in Flash to me, with generic art and music.

Nowhere close to the artistic charm of something like Super Mario World this is getting falsely compared to
Are you depressed or what’s the deal? You’re on constant cranky mode these days. The game seems absolutely brilliant! And this videos goes through why in great detail. Nintendo has done it again. I’m jumping in on this today, no waiting for any dust to settle here. Perfect game to pull me out of the Starfield addiction.
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
Are you depressed or what’s the deal? You’re on constant cranky mode these days. The game seems absolutely brilliant! And this videos goes through why in great detail. Nintendo has done it again. I’m jumping in on this today, no waiting for any dust to settle here. Perfect game to pull me out of the Starfield addiction.

Not at all! Very much enjoying plenty of games.

Mario Wonder isn't impressing me based on what I've seen, and what I've played previously from their 2D mario efforts. So it's false that I'm "constantly cranky", I'm not even saying definitively that this IS an overrated game - obviously I've not played it, but I'm going to wait to hear from people that were equally skeptical or disappointed from NSMB titles.

There are people that will constantly gobble up this stuff and absolutely love it - and they have every right to, but I'm going to defer to people that are a little more critical of these titles because I'm not fully enamored with them to begin with.
 

Sojiro

Member
lots of people feel the need to shit on nsmb games to praise this one but they were rad, Wonder is a rad successor as well they improved on every way
I agree. I actually like most NSMB games (NSMB2 on 3DS was a bit of a let down though), I do feel like they were all a bit samey in the visuals and that god damn wah wah music, but it's still Nintendo here, so the level design and general gameplay of them all were still top tier. And I will absolutely go to bat for NSMBU's challenge mode, that shit was a ton of fun to try and get gold on those challenges which on a number of them are extremely difficult.

With that said, I am absolutely happy with Wonder from the bit I have played so far. It definitely feels like a good shake up of the Mario formula and I absolutely love the visuals (I don't know in what fucking world people claim this looks visually like the NSMB series? I don't see it at all....)
 
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ReBurn

Gold Member
I agree. I actually like most NSMB games (NSMB2 on 3DS was a bit of a let down though), I do feel like they were all a bit samey in the visuals and that god damn wah wah music, but it's still Nintendo here, so the level design and general gameplay of them all were still top tier. And I will absolutely go to bat for NSMBU's challenge mode, that shit was a ton of fun to try and get gold on those challenges which on a number of them are extremely difficult.

With that said, I am absolutely happy with Wonder from the bit I have played so far. It definitely feels like a good shake up of the Mario formula and I absolutely love the visuals (I don't know in what fucking world people claim this looks visually like the NSMB series? I don't see it at all....)
Yeah, I don't get the NSMB comparisons, either. The game doesn't feel anything like those games to me, either.
 
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