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[GrizzleBoy]

Sure. And don't forget about "rewind time" feature too. But with current state of physics that would be difficult to implement

F1 games have rewind....

 

[M76]

The best racing game ever produced was Test Drive Unlimited, and it was open-world. The key to open world, is that it doesn't break immersion in-between races. I'd still play that game if the servers weren't shut down years ago.

I expected the graphics to be worse than on promo materials, but this looks no better than GT6 on the PS3. That A1 shot is especially painful, the wheels look so plastic like it's a render in 3d studio without any lights added.

 

[dracula_x]

F1 games have rewind....

I mean real life.

 

[Synth]

I mean real life.

Then what would it have to do with Codemasters?

 

[ClearData]

How do they quantify charisma and soul? That just sounds like a ridiculous made up metric.

 

[nib95]

The point is that for the longest time, Driveclub is supposed to have amazing IQ.

People are just finding out that in honest, it's not really that great.

The first time I saw a flyover I literally said "wtf?".

Then the graininess of the foliage, the aliasing. I couldn't believe it was the same game people have been able to make 100+ page threads just gushing over image quality.

I'm also pissed that after impression after impression and people having the game for weeks or more, I had to play the game myself to find out. Makes me trust some people a whole lot,less.

This is all absolute nonsense. For the longest time Driveclub has been picked apart for it's IQ. In-fact it started the famous power lines meme. The IQ in the final build of the game is actually much better than it ever has been in the past, in all 1080p gameplay videos ever shown (and there's been a crap load of them, including tonnes of HQ Gamersyde one's). At the first E3 it looked pretty bad, then at Gamescom it looked much better but had a lot of aliasing (roads as well as cars and background objects), then later builds had vastly improved aliasing but jaggy as hell power lines. Final build has improved most of that, but the odd aliasing still creeps through.

You keep trying to paint this narrative that people fooled you, but you only fooled and are fooling yourself.

 

[Marlenus]

True to an extent, I mean without being able to see the engine code I'm speculating however I doubt this game utilised much if any GPU compute. The AI from what I've encountered is good but relatively speaking racing game AI isnt that complex for a racing game?

Lets say you're a pathfinding algortithms, and while the terrain is I guess quite big, I really wouldnt expect CPU to be humbled by something like this, again if it was open world (I'm honestly not bringing this up anyways shape or form as a corrodor vs open world debate) but the point a to b calculation becomes more of a strain on resources.

Physics... again the most taxing thing I believe you would find in the physics engine is the collision detection system, again this is just speculation, I dont know what type of system they're using but I'm going to assume it's nothing taxing, it's a racing game. You dont need to take into account collision of thousands of different materials and how the interact with each other.

Lighting/Clouds/Reflections... yeah I'll give you this, this can be very CPU intensive, I'm speculating I'd assume this would be the most taxing part of their engine. I dont even know what kind of algorithms you use to calculate something like this, sounds painful lol. Shadow maps aliasing around the shadow maps etc. Headache.

The reason I say all that, not trying undermine the achievement of Driveclub, but in all honesty I'd expect the multi threaded CPU to be able to handle this at a decent level performance. Anyone please do correct me If I'm as I am speculating just from what I know and I'm not game developer.

What I would expect to see from a game using GPU compute is something like tree's, leaves reacting to each car driving by at different speeds... I'm probably being a little unrealistic but you get my drift? I'd expect alot more than what I'm seeing from driveclub if the were using GPU compute power. That said you could be right, they may have just touched on it rather than use it fully.

Guess we will never know

Actually during a race there was something (leaves, confetti? I do not know because I was going too fast) on the floor and as the cars in front of me went past it you could see it all get kicked up and float around in the air turbulence.

As far as physics goes it really depends how detailed they want to be. They could be using a physics based simulation for car handling, grip, track condition etc that is affected by the other systems and will be further affected by the upcoming weather patch. Not sure how they are doing what they are doing though and it would be interesting for DF to interview them in a few months to get more details on how they are doing all the simulation.

 

[Nyx]

I expected the graphics to be worse than on promo materials, but this looks no better than GT6 on the PS3.

Come on now....

 

[sörine]

Come on son. You know MK8 doesn't come close with the amount of tech that's in DC.

Weird the that the Driveclub defense force keeps inserting it then?

 

[ninjablade]

This is all absolute nonsense. For the longest time Driveclub has been picked apart for it's IQ. In-fact it started the famous power lines meme. The IQ in the final build of the game is actually much better than it ever has been in the past, in all 1080p gameplay videos ever shown (and there's been a crap load of them, including tonnes of HQ Gamersyde one's). At the first E3 it looked pretty bad, then at Gamescom it looked much better but had a lot of aliasing (roads as well as cars and background objects), then later builds had vastly improved aliasing but jaggy as hell power lines. Final build has improved most of that, but the odd aliasing still creeps through.

You keep trying to paint this narrative that people fooled you, but you only fooled and are fooling yourself.

I think he's talking about this

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=812527

Director and trailer says this is game play running on ps4, which was believable considering how good SS looked.

 

[CyclopsRock]

One can prefer open world racing games to closed track ones. One may not fucking review a game that is a closed circuit racer and criticize it for not being open world. Not unless you want your opinion to ever in life be taken seriously.

Criticism is the art of analyzing something on the merits of what it is attempting to achieve, not the art of fantasizing all the ways you wish you were experiencing something completely different but you're not so you just decide to shit on this one instead because you're (read: the people who keep pathetically listing this 'issue' in their reviews) so goddamn incompetent you can't even deconstruct the various merits of each approach to the genre you're analyzing.

I don't think it's quite as clear cut as what you're suggesting, because "what it is attempting to achieve" isn't objective or obvious either, but that's a whole other kettle of fish. You seem to just be declaring things without justifying them, as if the mere existence of your stating them is justification enough. I'm also not sure why you keep swearing, but I quite like swearing so that's OK.

I'm not sure why you feel confident in defining "criticism" in such a neatly specific way that directly applies to this situation. Is that what criticism is? It can't be more holistic than that? If a dev releases a game wherein the player is locked in an empty room from which they cannot escape, is the game to be hailed as a massive success and a masterpiece of the genre by the perfect critic on the grounds that it achieves perfectly what it set out to do? Ah! But what did it set out to do? Did it set out to "make a game wherein the player sits in an empty, locked room"? Or did it seem to make "a fun game"? Because it could be both simultaneously, where the developers succeeding very well in one and failed awfully in the other. Would a more... useful definition of criticism not involve some element of holistic review that takes into account both what the game is and what it could have been and compare the potential fun between them? Obviously this leads one open the charge of "well then couldn't a reviewer argue for a whacky kart-racing section in The Last of Us". But I suppose that subjectivity is what separates good critics from bad, not those who adhere to Amir0x's invented definition of the word "criticism".

Taken more specifically here, is it really that unreasonable for a person to review Driveclub and come to the conclusion that the handling is X, the driver AI is Y, the graphics are Z but that actually it might be more fun if it also had feature U? What if the reviewer feels that this feature is particularly fun - perhaps all his favourite racing games have this feature, and the ones he likes less lack this feature. Is he to simply ignore this on the basis that the developers neither attempted nor desired that feature? But the reviewer really enjoys this feature, and its absence necessarily reduces his enjoyment of Driveclub. So he's having less fun as a result of this feature being absent. Again - is he to ignore this? To not reference it? How little fun does one need to be having before the lack of feature/s are a justifiable target of ire in a review? Here we're talking about open world racing, but let's say it was the other way around, and feature U is actually a really realistic braking system, online races against other humans or perhaps manual gear control? Let's say this feature was missing - would you really say the reviewer deserved to never have their "opinion to ever in life be taken seriously" if they say "It's a really bad/mediocre/good/great game but it'd be better if I had the extra fun and challenge of having to manually control my gears."? Alrighty!

(And yeah, open world tracks are a feature, but whether you consider it to be a feature or a semi-genre-defining distinction isn't relevant here; Your argument is that you can only review a game based on what it was trying to achieve; My argument is that reviews and criticism is far more nuanced and hollistic than that.)

 

[nib95]

The best racing game ever produced was Test Drive Unlimited, and it was open-world. The key to open world, is that it doesn't break immersion in-between races. I'd still play that game if the servers weren't shut down years ago.

I expected the graphics to be worse than on promo materials, but this looks no better than GT6 on the PS3. That A1 shot is especially painful, the wheels look so plastic like it's a render in 3d studio without any lights added.

Lol. Here's the wheel in real life.

I think he's talking about this

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=812527

Director and trailer says this is game play running on ps4, which was believable considering how good SS looked.

It likely is. Just Photomode shots like we get with many other racers. If you actually believed the gameplay would be mass super sampled, with weird angles, heavy depth of field effects, obtuse colour grading and all the rest, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[stryke]

I don't think it's quite as clear cut as what you're suggesting, because "what it is attempting to achieve" isn't objective or obvious either, but that's a whole other kettle of fish

I'm fairly certain it is objective say Driveclub didn't strive to be an open world racer.

 

[Synth]

How do they quantify charisma and soul? That just sounds like a ridiculous made up metric.

I kinda understand what they're trying to say, as there are plenty of games which I'd place on either side of this description. Actually explaining why I would say a game has "soul" or "charisma" versus one that doesn't... I'd have no idea where to even begin.

Like, from a presentation standpoint, I'd actually argue that Forza Horizon has more of PGR's soul than Driveclub, despite the gameplay mechanics or Driveclub being more similar. In this case, it'd probably be more a case of setting (it has cities for example), music selection (including numerous radio stations, including a classical station), risk/reward approach to style points... lots of little things that cause Horizon to invoke memories of PGR for me more than Driveclub does.

I'd also argue it's the main thing that Angry Birds had going for it, which caused it to gain attention in comparison to other almost functionally identical games.

 

[KidJr]

Actually during a race there was something (leaves, confetti? I do not know because I was going too fast) on the floor and as the cars in front of me went past it you could see it all get kicked up and float around in the air turbulence.

As far as physics goes it really depends how detailed they want to be. They could be using a physics based simulation for car handling, grip, track condition etc that is affected by the other systems and will be further affected by the upcoming weather patch. Not sure how they are doing what they are doing though and it would be interesting for DF to interview them in a few months to get more details on how they are doing all the simulation.

Yeah the confetti is something that happens but not the kind of physics I'm referring to. But yeah your right, it'd be good for DF to interview them, I'd like to know if they could re-do the life cycle what they would do any different. While I'm sure they are super proud I'm sure that AA is annoying to them.

 

[alr1ght]

Open world racing is the bane of recent racing games. There's room for both, but this "review" doesn't seem to think so.

Bring on open world NBA. I can't wait to dunk on the street court down on 9th and Main Street.

 

[JaggedSac]

NFS Rivals and FM5? But FM5 has some sim ambitions so it might be not arcadey enough to count while NFS:R doesn't really have closed racing circuits in a traditional sense.

FM5 is not an arcade racer, unless you are making a snide jab at that game, lol. Also, Rivals is open world.

 

[Faustek]

Think that people can't see the difference between racers and drivers.
Anyway, there is a reason why I didn't pre order this. On the fence, let's hope the plus version goes up sooner in EU.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

You know what, it is about time we all move past these silliness over how good it looks

So you can sit there and go 'wow' but the game is not very good! I would of much rather they spent more resources on making the game play better

Wouldn't you?

Gameplay should always be king, it is a shame we seem to moving further and further from that!

Sensi Soccer anyone!

Can you give specific examples of what they could have done better?

 

[Dreamwriter]

Open world racing is the bane of recent racing games. There's room for both, but this "review" doesn't seem to think so.

Why are so many people saying this? The article didn't put the game down for not using open world at all.

For all its rendering accomplishments, DriveClub is actually best viewed more as an evolution of an old-school arcade racing game, as opposed to a state-of-the-art simulation. In gameplay terms, the lack of open world exploration and use of fixed tracks may seem a little behind the times, but the use of carefully designed point-to-point routes and traditional tracks suit the social aspect of the game, which revolves around challenging other players while winning events to increase status for yourself and your club.

In that sense, DriveClub comes across as an updated take on the classic arcade racer, played out at a global level, with both competitive and collaborative gameplay at the very heart of the experience. The handling model makes the game easy to pick up and play, while the relentless AI on higher difficulty settings keeps single-player races interesting as you constantly battle to stay in first place.

They are saying that to their readers the lack of open-world may seem behind the times, but the lack of open-world fits the design and theme of the game perfectly.

 

[vpance]

Can we get Rushy in here to explain this AF problem? I thought it was only an annoying trait of 3rd party games.

 

[EGM1966]

Why are so many people saying this? The article didn't put the game down for not using open world at all.



They are saying that to their readers the lack of open-world may seem behind the times, but the lack of open-world fits the design and theme of the game perfectly.

Yes but why would you even opinion that not being "open world" is behind the times. I mean let's be blunt sales of open world racers like FH seem to be way behind sales of track based racers.

If anything I'd argue open world titles like FH2 are more niche entry in the racing genre vs the big sellers which are track based.

The whole concept is stupid both in the DF article and as mentioned in reviews. There's no actual basis to even have this view in this genre.

 

[KainXVIII]

Can we get Rushy in here to explain this AF problem? I thought it was only an annoying trait of 3rd party games.

Forza 5 also have don't have good AF, its a trait of console games.

 

[thelastword]

Good point, I could even see them being too conservative and upping the IQ a little after implementing the weather if it runs good.

That's what I was thinking as well, after they properly implement the weather, they can up the AA if they have the overhead, by that time they would be better able to optimize anyway. I hope they do, but this in no way discredits what they have done thus far. Everything as it is is so dynamic, we must give the devs props and support for these achievements.

 

[Synth]

If anything I'd argue open world titles like FH2 are more niche entry in the racing genre vs the big sellers which are track based.

I'd say Need for Speed kinda rules this out.

 

[lukeskymac]

Weird the that the Driveclub defense force keeps inserting it then?

What?

 

[Windom Earle]

Lol. Here's the wheel in real life.

It likely is. Just Photomode shots like we get with many other racers. If you actually believed the gameplay would be mass super sampled, with weird angles, heavy depth of field effects, obtuse colour grading and all the rest, I have a bridge to sell you.

dude looks like plastic wtf

 

[barit]

not just bad.. really bad. The over all IQ isn't good enough to be called "great" or "outstanding".

lol this is not how it looks on my TV

But nice try to shit on the game with compressed screenshots

 

[kick51]

If a game is going for realism and the reviewer says it has no charisma or soul, what does that say about the reviewer? (or DF guy)

 

[Dictator93]

Anyone remember those times when people said this was the best looking game ever made? Like ever?
Even though dozens of people pointed out how those were probably photomode bullshots?

Good times, good times.

 

[lukeskymac]

I remember this game looking a bit better than what i'm seeing right now, that white Audi shot especially, is the car floating? There are better looking shots from Hot Pursuit 2010 on PC, in motion it will probably look better though i will concede.

Déjà vu

 

[AgentP]

Forza 5 is a sim just like GT both will never go open world due to their genre.

That genre being a racing game, not offroad smashapoolaza.

 

[Windom Earle]

Anyone remember those times when people said this was the best looking game ever made? Like ever?
Even though dozens of people pointed out how those were probably photomode bullshots?

Good times, good times.

Some hyperbole in there but it can be argued that it still is, it just looks bad on some tracks and in certain lighting conditions. The blight of realtime lighting. E.g. Scotland looks absolutely out of this world.

 

[AgentP]

not just bad.. really bad. The over all IQ isn't good enough to be called "great" or "outstanding".

You are trolling, the games looks great and outstanding. That is unless you take bad screenshot that purposely tries to make the game look bad. Reminds me of that time someone took an unflattering pic of Uncharted 2 by making the camera get too close to a texture.

 

[T.O.P]

That genre being a racing game, not offroad smashapoolaza.

kinda funny since it's exactly how i would describe Driveclub A.I.

 

[Ombala]

Cant wait for Mario Kart too be open world all racing games need too be open world!

 

[Dictator93]

Some hyperbole in there but it can be argued that it still is, it just looks bad on some tracks and in certain lighting conditions. The blight of realtime lighting. E.g. Scotland looks absolutely out of this world.

Got any direct feeds of that`?

 

[jello44]

I enjoy racing in my racing games.

I also enjoy the sense of progression to be had in unlocking new events and stages and environments, and seeing new sights as I play through the campaign. What I don't enjoy is the repetition that comes with seeing everything a racing game has to offer within the first couple of hours, or how races become an exercise in navigation as opposed to racing, or how open world games throw in arbitrary collectibles that offer nothing other than to pad things out content wise.

This line of thinking that a linear race track structure is becoming old-fashioned is just insane to me.

I think Horizon did a neat job with the barns and the signs to get discounts off tune-up parts.

But, yes, not every racing game has to be open world and to treat it as a negative is silly.

 

[RayMaker]

The lighting on the cars is superb, and combined with the density of effects and trees and stuff its an overall amazing visual package.

That graphical analysis was also like another review talking quite a lot about things beside visuals and performance, which is kind of odd.

 

[arit]

Some hyperbole in there but it can be argued that it still is, it just looks bad on some tracks and in certain lighting conditions. The blight of realtime lighting. E.g. Scotland looks absolutely out of this world.

Can you share the settings? Those "ceartain" conditions seem to outweigh the beautiful ones by far, at least that was my impression after playing it for a good 10h.

 

[Windom Earle]

Got any direct feeds of that`?

Sry, no direct feed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VyhuRKSORs

I did this race today and the way the lighting slowly changes is quite something.

Can you share the settings? Those "ceartain" conditions seem to outweigh the beautiful ones by far, at least that was my impression after playing it for a good 10h.

I thought there was some ugly stuff in the rookie class. In amateur all the Scotland races are amazing and also the night TT in Chile.

 

[Peltz]

I'm very interested to try out this game for the engine. To be honest, if the racing isn't fun, I'll still get value out of it by putting the engine through its paces.

Imagine when games come out in the future that make Driveclub look rough. We're still in the first year and jaws are already dropping.

 

[arit]

Sry, no direct feed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VyhuRKSORs

I did this race today and the way the lighting slowly changes is quite something.



I thought there was some ugly stuff in the rookie class. In amateur all the Scotland races are amazing and also the night TT in Chile.

Thanks, I guess I have live with being not as impressed as most people then.

I'm very interested to try out this game for the engine. To be honest, if the racing isn't fun, I'll still get value out of it by putting the engine through its paces.

Imagine when games come out in the future that make Driveclub look rough. We're still in the first year and jaws are already dropping.

Every 60fps racer ever makes it look rough.

 

[Xenus]

The real question is when did Digital Foundry start injecting opinions about gameplay etc into their tech analysis? You are a tech analysis not a review. We didn't come here to hear your opinion on whether it should be an open world game or not etc. We came here to see aabout the rendering tech and IQ.

 

[jim2point0]

not just bad.. really bad. The over all IQ isn't good enough to be called "great" or "outstanding".

That's terribly compressed but you can still see the aliasing. Just goes to show you that 1920x1080 really isn't enough pixels to render those trees. Not with cheap AA. Lots of aliasing there. It's probably better in motion but those screens look really rough.

 

[Windom Earle]

That's terribly compressed but you can still see the aliasing. Just goes to show you that 1920x1080 really isn't enough pixels to render those trees. Not with cheap AA. Lots of aliasing there. It's probably better in motion but those screens look really rough.

No shit Sherlock.

 

[Gestault]

I think he's talking about this

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=812527

Director and trailer says this is game play running on ps4, which was believable considering how good SS looked.

That trailer specified that the footage was taken from a PS4 system, but the image quality is all above what's in the actual game, and this isn't even a case where we can say "it's from replay mode," because there isn't a replay mode.

 

[Ingueferroque]

That's terribly compressed but you can still see the aliasing. Just goes to show you that 1920x1080 really isn't enough pixels to render those trees. Not with cheap AA. Lots of aliasing there. It's probably better in motion but those screens look really rough.

Yeah, the IQ is a mixed bag despite the 1080p resolution. But the lighting pulls it all together, it just looks astonishing at times. It deserves better AA though.

That trailer specified that the footage was taken from a PS4 system, but the image quality is all above what's in the actual game, and this isn't even a case where we can say "it's from replay mode," because there isn't a replay mode.

There will be though, and a photo mode as well. They showed it off at the last EG Expo I believe.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Seems like only a portion of the quoted paragraphs is about the tech aspect and a whole lot of opinion on gameplay and it being behind the time for not being open world. Solid 30fps at least to go with them lovely lights. ;_;

Yeah, curious. Didn't know DF gave their verdict on gameplay so much.

And yeah, I know they usually have an ending para like this, but this one is lengthy on this aspect of the game.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

This line here...

...is just total bullshit. This pervading mentality that open world automatically means better. No, it doesn't. Especially not in a racing game.

Utter bullshit. I've noticed DF have made gameplay critiques on both this and Infamous: Second Son. Do they do this with games from other publishers, or is it an anti-Sony bias?