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Do people still doubt a PC PlayStation Storefront is coming?

Is a PC PlayStation Storefront coming?


  • Total voters
    233

Fabieter

Member
Because PCs are open platforms and general-purpose devices. Consoles aren't.

Also Id idn't know the "open platform" of PC was in fact Microsoft's platform. Guess in a way PC isn't so open after all 😉



Those synergies definitely exist but my question is why does Sony have to do that right now? The console is still perfectly fine and healthy, and if anything could do with new features inspired by things on platforms like Steam, to integrate into the console experience.

Sony just doesn't have a need for a PC storefront for the next several years. There are other ways to expand revenue, profits, and install base with the console itself (plus reduce production costs sensibly) that don't involve potentially cannibalizing the console (in part) too early, while still having a (sensible) multiplatform strategy for growth on PC and mobile that also doesn't cannibalize the console.

A PC launcher/storefront would pose a direct threat to the console itself, especially if Sony had no way to monetize it without subscriptions, or make PS+ work on PC without using online play as a catalyst, etc.

In a world were we see more and more games coming to steam I don't see a downside to try their own store but I agree otherwise yes.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
It's definitely coming, and for all the people who say "they have no chance against Steam". That's not the point, if they integrate it with their Playstation account, allow people to play against others on the Playstation, preserve the friendlist and the trophies, then the PlayStation owners who grow older and get into PC gaming will likely use them than use a Steam account. Over time that is going to build up a userbase, plus the people who will set up an account to play PS exclusives day one on PC rather than wait a year on steam.
They then get to keep the 30% fee that Steam charges, that probably adds up to over $100 million a year earned just on the extra revenue on those fees

Those trophies are like untouchable, if they carry those over, people die for PlayStation trophies.

I can absolutely see people using Sony's version of the Steam Store if their trophies synced and they could be earned on PC too.

Plus imagine when they get their store and people have it running on Steam OS - we'd really have the PSP2 at that point, via the Deck.
 

Fabieter

Member
Those trophies are like untouchable, if they carry those over, people die for PlayStation trophies.

I can absolutely see people using Sony's version of the Steam Store if their trophies synced and they could be earned on PC too.

Plus imagine when they get their store and people have it running on Steam OS - we'd really have the PSP2 at that point, via the Deck.

Some people here underestimate the pull from trophies over steam and xbox equivalent.
 

Omnipunctual Godot

Gold Member
And when consoles vanish eventually they are positioned as just another publisher instead of a platform themselves.
If consoles vanish, Sony has a much larger problem than opening a PC storefront. If they don't make consoles anymore, it's because they either chose not to or they are no longer capable of doing so.

Why were other companies better suited to try than the company with one of the biggest ecosystems in gaming? Explain it to me.
As I already explained, Windows comes with the Microsoft Store already built into the OS. And they still moved their games to Steam. Epic Games had the closest thing to a Steam competitor and they still haven't turned a profit after five years. In addition, these companies already have their own teams that focus on development (not just game development) for PC. Sony does not, and they would have to invest even more money in building teams specifically for those purposes.

You've seen the same thing with every network trying to create its own TV and movie streaming platform. Most of them have been in the red ever since.

Valve has like 300 employees and manage their store with ease. They are tiny compared to sony. Valve isn't even a public traded company so we don't know their margins, costs etc. People are so crazy about valve getting competition it's crazy.
I don't care about Valve getting competition. I just explained why it probably wouldn't work based on previous examples. It would be a huge risk that could cost them a lot more than what they might make.
 

Fabieter

Member
If consoles vanish, Sony has a much larger problem than opening a PC storefront. If they don't make consoles anymore, it's because they either chose not to or they are no longer capable of doing so.


As I already explained, Windows comes with the Microsoft Store already built into the OS. And they still moved their games to Steam. Epic Games had the closest thing to a Steam competitor and they still haven't turned a profit after five years. In addition, these companies already have their own teams that focus on development (not just game development) for PC. Sony does not, and they would have to invest even more money in building teams specifically for those purposes.

You've seen the same thing with every network trying to create its own TV and movie streaming platform. Most of them have been in the red ever since.


I don't care about Valve getting competition. I just explained why it probably wouldn't work based on previous examples. It would be a huge risk that could cost them a lot more than what they might make.

Higher risk means higher possible gains instead of settling with just being a number in the gaming industry going forward. The fact that you think that ms and epic was better suited for a pc store is laughable at best. So agree to disagree than, people are so stubborn with this topic.
 

Omnipunctual Godot

Gold Member
Higher risk means higher possible gains instead of settling with just being a number in the gaming industry going forward. The fact that you think that ms and epic was better suited for a pc store is laughable at best. So agree to disagree than, people are so stubborn with this topic.
Do you have any investments? You sound like someone who doesn't.
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
They can try, but I have serious doubts that it will work out in their favor. I think investing in a store front that can compete with steam is a lot more expensive than it appears to be. At a minimum to compete with Steam you need the infrastructure to handle returns, allow user reviews, support friend lists, create a method to allow people to join their friend's games, DM support, etc. If you care about selling 3rd party games you need mod support as well. And to really get people off of steam entirely you need forums and the rest. All of those uncompressed audio 100+GB console games are not cheap to serve up bandwidth wise.

They do almost all of this already on console.

It's not a very big challenge.
 
In a world were we see more and more games coming to steam I don't see a downside to try their own store but I agree otherwise yes.

Yeah but the reason more games are coming to Steam is because of things unique to Steam, particularly its overwhelming market share in terms of storefronts on PC. It's the most popular storefront there in general.

I'll put it this way; Sony launching a PC storefront would be like them releasing a Master System to Valve's NES (Steam). Yeah they can get market share, but with the way things currently are probably not very much. Sony's better off having a more measured PC approach (I am not for Day 1 PC releases and in fact would say any ports of marquee 1P non-GaaS titles should be 4-6 years, not 1-2, but I digress) and building up a potential PC & mobile storefront in the background. However, a launcher for their own PC ports (that's optional) wouldn't be a bad thing to have in the time being.

That way if Valve screws up massively, Sony could buff the launcher and turn it into a storefront, and offer an alternative for disgruntled Steam fans. Preferably though, that'd happen if/when it seems no matter what the console market as a whole is in sharper decline, but I don't see that happening at all in the next 10 years at least. Yeah, Microsoft's share in the console market could be in a continual decline but that doesn't mean Sony & Nintendo can't grow. They just have to keep innovating with what they bring with their consoles going forward (current and future).

They do almost all of this already on console.

It's not a very big challenge.

I mean they do, but are they implemented as well on PlayStation as they are on Steam? Better? That is an important question.

But I'd still it's worth asking, does Sony really need to do that right now? Their own consoles are still doing very well. For example despite the doom-and-gloom, they're up 7% over PS4 in the US launch-aligned.

There are still many things Sony can do to make PlayStation more effectively competitive with Steam and PC. I'd say try doing that first before pushing hard for your own storefront on PC.
 
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James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
All I know is that for a while Netflix was the only game in town.

And now it's not. People used to argue that any other streaming service would never be popular in comparison. But we now have multiple competitors. They may not be at the same level as Netflix, but they are still thriving with users. Their big issue is mostly one of content cost. But for Sony, content cost is already accounted for to support their consoles. This is just free money. I don't think Steam's moat is particularly robust. They don't have their own content, so rely almost entirely on other studios to supply them. Sony can leverage their position and relationships to build their own storefront, and as new generations enter PC gaming, will have plenty of options. Clicking a button to buy games is not a big deal. The Epic comparison isn't valid at all. Like Steam, Epic doesn't really make content either.
 
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James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
I mean they do, but are they implemented as well on PlayStation as they are on Steam? Better? That is an important question.

But I'd still it's worth asking, does Sony really need to do that right now? Their own consoles are still doing very well. For example despite the doom-and-gloom, they're up 7% over PS4 in the US launch-aligned.

There are still many things Sony can do to make PlayStation more effectively competitive with Steam and PC. I'd say try doing that first before pushing hard for your own storefront on PC.

I don't think it's a matter of whether their console business is healthy - it is - but if the console industry is growing enough to achieve their goals. I'd say it's not. It's pacing similar to the PS4. For Sony, tapping into PC would basically be all growth. And it seems like the console piece of the pie is stagnating while PC is growing over time, made worse by Xbox moving to day and date. I believe that's where most of their audience now resides.
 
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Fabieter

Member
Yeah but the reason more games are coming to Steam is because of things unique to Steam, particularly its overwhelming market share in terms of storefronts on PC. It's the most popular storefront there in general.

I'll put it this way; Sony launching a PC storefront would be like them releasing a Master System to Valve's NES (Steam). Yeah they can get market share, but with the way things currently are probably not very much. Sony's better off having a more measured PC approach (I am not for Day 1 PC releases and in fact would say any ports of marquee 1P non-GaaS titles should be 4-6 years, not 1-2, but I digress) and building up a potential PC & mobile storefront in the background. However, a launcher for their own PC ports (that's optional) wouldn't be a bad thing to have in the time being.

That way if Valve screws up massively, Sony could buff the launcher and turn it into a storefront, and offer an alternative for disgruntled Steam fans. Preferably though, that'd happen if/when it seems no matter what the console market as a whole is in sharper decline, but I don't see that happening at all in the next 10 years at least. Yeah, Microsoft's share in the console market could be in a continual decline but that doesn't mean Sony & Nintendo can't grow. They just have to keep innovating with what they bring with their consoles going forward (current and future).

Certainly. I believe Sony, in attempting to establish their launcher, would prioritize quality over a barebones approach. They might adopt a cautious strategy, initially releasing games exclusively on Steam and making a significant push when their launcher is fully developed. Given their subscription's stagnant growth, having their store allows cross-promotion with the console, potentially boosting sales. While most games could still be on Steam, offering unique perks and exclusive titles like a Bloodborne remake on their platform could entice users.

Essentially, maintaining a favorable balance would involve avoiding simultaneous releases on Steam for major titles. As long as they do timed exclusivity for their single-player games, the specifics of release platforms may not significantly impact the overall strategy.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
For starters, the PSVR2 stuff is likely not what most are thinking. Most likely is going to be the ability for PS5 PSVR2 owners to stream PC VR games that don't have native versions on PS5. That would be easier to implement than native PSVR2 support on PC, which may come down the line, but would feel like a slap in the face to the console owners with the headset as they basically paid for a $550 paperweight that won't get additional support unless they also have a sufficient PC for VR games. That's a borderline mid-90's SEGA move in terms of level of stupid towards your core customer base.

I think you're misreading the blogpost. Nothing in that blogpost suggested that this was streaming and I'm not sure why you think the additional support of the PC would somehow upend support on the PS5.



Meanwhile, PlayStation consoles are still going incredibly strong globally; unless Sony have a means to monetize a PC storefront that can give them recurring revenue even without a person needing a PS+ subscription, the amount of hardcore & core enthusiasts they risk losing out from buying a console to go to the PC storefront instead would be enough, to decline overall revenue. That increases even more if casual & mainstream gamers choose the storefront over the console, because without something like a "free" ad-subsidized model, the storefront will never generate revenue on its own that console hardware can.
PS+ subscriptions, 3rd party sales, and first party sales... Sounds like a pretty straight forward plan to monetize. Sony doesn't make money from hardware. Anyone who jumped to their PC storefront would do so without Sony taking a hit on hardware to sell to them.


That is also because of the fact that with a PC storefront, there'd be no reason to not support any and all 3P controller options on PC, including KB&M, all of which can drive down desire to buy Sony-branded controller peripherals or specifically PS-licensed 3P peripherals where on the console Sony would normally get some type of license cut for them. They would ALSO need to find a way to make PS+ Essentials worthwhile for PC users while removing the online paywall requirement, not exactly easy to do.
Not sure why you think Sony's PC support would need to be the same as their console support. People are already buying all sorts of peripherals on PC. If anything Sony has positioned themselves to be a major player in the space with Inzone, the new PlayStation Monitors, Dual Sense/Edge, and now Audeze headsets.


I'm sure Sony have plans for a PC storefront in some early stages, but it'd just be incredibly premature of them to make a push for it anytime this gen or the majority of the next generation. There is significant room for growth in terms of install base, revenue, profit margins, 1P software creativity, technological creativity & standardization of new practices/features etc. that Sony can leverage through their own hardware, not to mention with the console, they still retain full control of the vertical stack. Gaming-wise PlayStation console is where they have the most vested interests so unless consoles altogether are dropping off (which isn't happening despite sensationalists reporting of late...at least it's not happening for Sony and Nintendo :/), there is no reason for Sony to cannibalize their own console market for an aggressive PC initiative which would include a launcher/storefront.

This would have been their plan before they bought Nixxes. It doesn't take 10 years to launch a storefront. A storefront doesn't need to have a million games in it day one to be successful and profitable. I think this assumes that they've started developing it today. Sony bought Nixxes in 2021 and they started porting games to PC well before that.

Because, another thing they'd have to do is convince 3P to put their games on that launcher/storefront as well. A PC storefront with just Sony's 1P would not be enough to make it worthwhile, but the best means of Sony convincing 3P to put their games on it would be that they only charge 5 or 10% cuts on all 3P games sold on the storefront, as long as the 3P also make PS versions of the games available at the same time. Even so, that is still going to create scenarios where some high-ARPU core enthusiasts shift to PC and therefore Sony makes less money off both 1P and 3P games sold on their PC launcher, since they get smaller cut from the 3P and they likely don't get accompanying subs on PC with the 1P if that customer doesn't need PS+ for online play.

Sony is in constant discussions with 3rd parties. It's like saying Sony won't release a PS5 Pro because they'd have to get 3P to support it. Now you've prematurely cut their royalties to 5% or 10%. Why not free? Why not -5% they'll for all the games like Epic.

They can create a PC PS+ with many of the same features and sell that subscription. Cloud streaming is already on PC for example.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Then you have the fact that Epic Games is actually a Sony investment, it would be a conflict of interest for Sony to enter this space while also running its home console operations. What would be Sony's priorities? The most feasible and logical pathway into the PC market is to distribute via the existing platforms, and build a launcher that doesn't force customers to choose between stores. I just don't see anyone building a distribution/storefront as complete as Steam, especially with the reputation that it has built over decades.

Sony has invested in Epic but you don't see them using Unreal engine for all their products. They didn't say let's not make GaaS games because it could take away from people playing Fortnite. The idea that the small percentage Sony invested in Epic means they can't enter that space is beyond a reach.

Don't really want to take this off-topic, but you are aware that Sony moneyhats devs/publishers now for console timed exclusives, right?

There is a massive difference between what Epic does and what Sony does and that is why Sony operates at a profit despite the fact that they're still taking a loss on hardware.

Epic does not have the leverage that Sony has with PlayStation, so they have to finance a lot of their exclusives. Sony doesn't have to do that. They can finance access or exclusivity through reduced Playstation 5 royalties for games that appear on PC.
 
All I know is that for a while Netflix was the only game in town.

And now it's not. People used to argue that any other streaming service would never be popular in comparison. But we now have multiple competitors. They may not be at the same level as Netflix, but they are still thriving with users. Their big issue is mostly one of content cost. But for Sony, content cost is already accounted for to support their consoles. This is just free money. I don't think Steam's moat is particularly robust. They don't have their own content, so rely almost entirely on other studios to supply them. Sony can leverage their position and relationships to build their own storefront, and as new generations enter PC gaming, will have plenty of options. Clicking a button to buy games is not a big deal. The Epic comparison isn't valid at all. Like Steam, Epic doesn't really make content either.
I just think Sony have to be very delicate and careful in how much they focus on multiplatform expansion to areas like PC without cannibalizing their own console before a natural decline in that market takes place. Which hasn't happened yet, and won't happen for at least another decade. Plus, there are other ways Sony can improve profit margins in the console space such as culling excess in budget bloat, or maybe even not necessarily trying to chase high-end graphics to ridiculous levels (besides outside of things like RT GI and such, gaming hardware is more than enough in areas like polygon generation, raster performance etc.). Also making more AA games, cutting out games that result in genre/demo redundancies, implementing AI into areas of game development to lower costs, etc.

Yes Sony have their 1P content, but them pushing a PC storefront that has no way to monetize itself outside of direct B2P purchases and add-on content (or paid subscriptions, which might end up lower in cost than console versions because of no online requirement), could result in situations where they are effectively losing a lot more in revenue per user that options for the storefront to get their games (with their own storefront I'd assume 1P games would all be Day 1 on there) vs. buying the console. Add to that, the fact Sony would have to be a lot more competitive on pricing deals and such to effectively compete with Steam, GOG, EGS etc. in the PC space, for their own storefront that has an initially lower install base than any of them, risking drawing over too many high-valued customers from console to choose the storefront and negatively affecting Sony's gaming revenue and profits in doing so.

There are very fundamental things that they'd have to address first before even considering their own PC storefront seriously and, again, I feel there's no reason to considering the console is going well. Are people suggesting this because they think Day 1 PC for all 1P titles is inevitable? Because I don't think that's happening whatsoever. Sony's PC strategy will focus on mainly GaaS titles, most of them going over and most being Day 1 on both platforms. The non-GaaS stuff...at least for new AAA titles, will still have noticeable gaps. IMHO the gaps should be more like 4-6 years between them at earliest, and any port with enhancements providing those enhancements for free or a small fee to PS console owners, plus a new equivalent 1P AAA non-GaaS exclusive only for console within 1-2 years of the port.

I think that strikes the perfect balance of instilling FOMO, maximizing the B2P sales pipeline on console, maximizing the subscription pipeline on console (where maybe the game goes into the service intermittently on/off after being out for 3 years), ensuring optimal polish for the initial release, ensuring optimal polish for the eventual port, giving enough time for maybe some DLC/expansion content to go with the PC/mobile port, giving 1P studios enough to to get enough work done on new 1P AAA & AA exclusively for the console, and creating that "virtuous cycle" where ultimately the console is always the priority through action (not just words).

I don't think it's a matter of whether their console business is health - it is - but if the console industry is growing enough to achieve their goals. I'd say it's not. It's pacing similar to the PS4. For Sony, tapping into PC would basically be all growth. And it seems like the console piece of the pie is stagnating while PC is growing over time, made worse by Xbox moving to day and date. I believe that's where most of their audience now resides.

Honestly I don't think the bolded is true. For example let's look at Helldivers 2: how many of those Steam sales are from PS5 owners who just optioned to get the Steam version because of better performance, potential mod support, and no fee to pay for online? That percentage of sales wouldn't be actual growth, then, but a lateral transfer at best. I'd argue a major reason the console market isn't seeing huge growth, is because maybe the platform holders aren't doing enough to make their products more competitive with other gaming device ecosystems like PC and mobile.

With the way Xbox's sales have been collapsing, arguably many of its would-be customers or even current customers who are dissatisfied should be buying PlayStations, but if they aren't, that's more an issue with a limitation in appeal on Sony's part that they need to address, not that the console market itself is "stagnate". But I guess expecting companies to take accountability for their own potential missteps, no matter how big or small, is always harder than laying the blame at forces well beyond the company's own control, like "the market", as if it's its own thing and that platform holder's actions have no bearing on it otherwise.

I can tell you exactly why PC is growing: platforms like Steam are doing a great job at attracting many once-console exclusive franchises, IP, and 3P devs/pubs to prioritize the platform. A 3P may sell, say, 2 million copies of a game at launch on console and 1 million on Steam, but if of those 2 million console copies 70% were physical, then the 3P is getting less a cut of each copy than the digital ones. OTOH, Steam is all digital, so after Valve gets their 30% (and IIRC, they lower this down to 20% after a certain threshold in sales?) cut, the 3P gets the rest. Assuming the price for the game is the same or not that much lower than the typical going price, even accounting for potential piracy, the 3P gets more per copy from Steam than they do the consoles. Additionally, 3P don't have to do much advertising for their games on PC; in fact I suspect many just use their marketing deals and such with console platforms to cover any marketing costs they'd have for PC. But that can work to the detriment of consoles because they are probably still advertising the Steam version somewhere, plus on Steam WOM is a very community-driven thing in the platform itself, which acts as its own form of advertising.

I'd also say that not needing to "buy a box" for Steam specifically also works to its favor to some degree, so the access point is lower for it versus buying a console. Those are just some of the main reasons I can think of why PC gaming has been growing (also going beyond Steam, there are various 3P with their own launchers like Riot, EA etc. which I'm sure also count towards its growth, and competing storefronts that might have some redundancies/duplicate of factors vs. Steam doing the same, like EGS). But it's also worth considering, in the current console market, if the total install base is staying relatively "flat", then we know some portion of Xbox users are going to Sony & Nintendo, because Xbox is the platform suffering the biggest declines and not pulling its own weight. I don't get why analysts never state the obvious in that context.

Certainly. I believe Sony, in attempting to establish their launcher, would prioritize quality over a barebones approach. They might adopt a cautious strategy, initially releasing games exclusively on Steam and making a significant push when their launcher is fully developed. Given their subscription's stagnant growth, having their store allows cross-promotion with the console, potentially boosting sales. While most games could still be on Steam, offering unique perks and exclusive titles like a Bloodborne remake on their platform could entice users.

Essentially, maintaining a favorable balance would involve avoiding simultaneous releases on Steam for major titles. As long as they do timed exclusivity for their single-player games, the specifics of release platforms may not significantly impact the overall strategy.

Well, I don't see where it makes fiscal sense to tie a Bloodborne remake to their own PC launcher, if they are bringing even bigger 1P games to Steam. I "get it" on some level because Souls games are very popular on PC apparently, but if Sony are a company trying to grow their own storefront on the platform, why only make Bloodborne exclusive? Why not all their 1P (that aren't GaaS, I guess)?

Also kinda wonder if Valve would be cool with a publisher using their storefront as a means of gaining relevance and revenue simply to launch a competitor storefront later on. Don't know how Valve handles business with 3P in that sense, but they have removed games from Steam and probably banned developers from putting games up for sale, too. Just something telling me they'd probably circumvent that type of thing from Sony's end.

Plus I actually would compare that to Microsoft right now publishing games on PlayStation and Nintendo. IMO the reason Starfield, Indiana Jones etc. (you know, the big games) aren't confirmed yet is probably because Sony for example, won't let them launch on PlayStation if Microsoft are still essentially competing directly with Xbox Series and Game Pass. They just said all their games will still come to Game Pass (not Core) Day 1; does Sony want the money from those games on their platform to mostly go to Microsoft so they can sustain Game Pass the way it currently is, and potentially use that and the profits gained to make more moves against PlayStation such as gaming M&As?

No I don't think Sony would want that, or Nintendo for that matter (if the rumors of an Xbox handheld, as in a console handheld and not a PC handheld. Need to stress the distinction here). So if Microsoft are still going to compete directly with them this gen and even next gen, Sony & Nintendo aren't entertaining releases like a Starfield, Indiana Jones, etc. until well after they've already been out on Xbox and Game Pass. Even then, they know those ports won't sell to as high an amount or as many copies as they would've if they came Day 1, which means less money for Microsoft overall off of PlayStation and Nintendo customers. That's something very important for Sony & Nintendo to keep in play if MS are going for a half-in/half-out multiplatform strategy where they're still going to be competing with Xbox consoles and console handheld devices (and that traditional console business model) for this gen and next-gen.

So in the PC space, Steam would be where Sony & Nintendo are in the console area with the Microsoft example. Although it's a bit different for Valve; they don't mind Day 1 ports of Sony 1P games I'd reckon, but that might also be in big part because currently Sony have no direct competitor in a PC gaming storefront. Not just in terms of one that exists, but exists and has significant market share vs. Steam. Valve haven't been put in that situation yet, but they could sweat if Sony wanted to try doing so, because they already see the success Sony has had in the console market.

I don't know if Valve would want to empower Sony in that way, just like how Sony don't want to empower Microsoft with this expanded multi-console strategy if MS still aim to compete directly with PlayStation for the foreseeable future.
 
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StereoVsn

Gold Member
Some people here underestimate the pull from trophies over steam and xbox equivalent.
Do they? People who feel that strongly about trophies are on PS consoles already.

I have strong doubts there are loads of PC gamers who just can’t wait for that trophy integration so they will jump ship to Sony storefront.

Maybe some will for Sony exclusives, but that’s about it.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
I have never once argued that Sony's PC Storefront wouldn't have any third-party games. That's not the issue yet you keep bringing this up, the issue is that no one would buy these games. I know because we already have proof of this with the Epic Games Store. Seriously, give me one reason why a PC gamer would buy Dragon Age 4 on a Sony PC Storefront over Steam, EA, or Epic Games Store.

You are the one making blanket statements because you clearly have no idea how PC gaming works. Before Steam PC games came on disks with an activation code and a storefront like Steam wasn't necessary. How do you not know this? Steam became popular because it was first just like Netflix which allowed them to build a large install base and improve on it over time with little to no competition. What you are suggesting Sony do is like telling a movie studio to build their own streaming service to compete with Netflix. Well, many tried and we know how well that went.

Lots of reasons, cross-save support, trophy support, PSN friend lists.

Again, there is this mentality that in order for Sony to have success they need to sell X copies of 3rd party software or take X percent of market share away from Steam.

Steam gains millions of users every year. Competing for these new users alone has value, let alone percentages of existing gamers. Many of them being console gamers, this is a pie worth getting into.

You realize that HBO Max is surging in profitability now right? Some fail and some succeed. There is a reason why HBO has been successful while others like Paramount have not.

If you can attest to the fact that Roblox, Minecraft, and Fortnite are 3 of the most popular games in the world and yet they're sold of Steam, you must realize that people are entirely willing to buy games off steam. Many people in these younger generates don't care at all about whether a game is on Steam or not.

So the idea that Sony wouldn't be able to sell their own first party games is a bit presumptive.

So this gets back to 3rd party games. Without subsidizing 3rd party like Epic does, it doesn't matter how much 3rd party games sell on your platform. Every 3rd party game sale is a profit.

It's a mistake for Epic to drop money year in and year out trying to make this happen inorganically when they could be spending more money on making more games that attract more users, and more users by themselves will attract 3rd parties. And again, as long as you're not bleeding money on these, any 3rd parties in your store is profit. It's sales you otherwise would not have.

Whether you have a 1 million 3rd party sales, 5 million 3rd party sales, or 100 million 3rd party sales.
 

near

Gold Member
Sony has invested in Epic but you don't see them using Unreal engine for all their products. They didn't say let's not make GaaS games because it could take away from people playing Fortnite. The idea that the small percentage Sony invested in Epic means they can't enter that space is beyond a reach.

I only mentioned Sony's investment in Epic Games to indicate that Sony sees them as more of a partner than a competitor. Sure, 4.9% is a small stake to hold in a company, but when that stake costs $1.45 billion you want returns. The investment was made to upgrade online entertainment operations integrating games, music and films. I might be stretching this point, but I thought it was interesting and worth adding to the discussion.
 

SNG32

Member
I’m not doubting that they would do it but if they do they should release day and date on the PlayStation store app and still release their games on steam later down the line for those that are dead set on steam.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
Do they? People who feel that strongly about trophies are on PS consoles already.

I have strong doubts there are loads of PC gamers who just can’t wait for that trophy integration so they will jump ship to Sony storefront.

Maybe some will for Sony exclusives, but that’s about it.

My point was specifically about Sony gamers who care about achievements now having a PC outlet to play games on that provides the same achievements.

Here imagine:

Buy FFVII Rebirth on PS5, beat it and score 80% of the achievements.

3 months later, buy FFVII Rebirth on PC through the PS Store (or even have it for free), do a second playthrough and finish up the last 20% of the achievements netting a 100% achievement score, while having better graphics/framerate etc.

I could see that being way more appealing than buying the game on Steam, especially if it is actually free for you on the Sony version of Steam.

Likewise if you have 1,400 trophies or whatever, you can now earn additional trophies on PC/Steam Deck, Ally, Go etc, no longer do you need to play on the PS5 or even have a PS5 to continue your trophy collection.
 
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StereoVsn

Gold Member
My point was specifically about Sony gamers who care about achievements now having a PC outlet to play games on that provides the same achievements.

Here imagine:

Buy FFVII Rebirth on PS5, beat it and score 80% of the achievements.

3 months later, buy FFVII Rebirth on PC through the PS5 Store (or even have it for free), do a second playthrough and finish up the 100% achievement score, having better graphics etc.

I could see that being way more appealing than buying the game on Steam, especially if it is actually free for you on the Sony version of Steam.
1 - PC copy ain’t going to be free
2 - people who care enough about trophies will beat the game on PS
3 - the amount of people that will switch from Steam to Sony storefront for anything but exclusives are bound to be minuscule numbers
4 - SE and Sony shortened PC exclusivity window because SE wants that sweet cash from Steam customers. Unless Sony pays even more it won’t happen.

Basically having its own storefront will demand a lot of work and money to setup and run from Sony for dubious returns.

Will Sony do that? Maybe, but it will be a mistake longer term.
 
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Minsc

Gold Member
1 - it ain’t going to be free
2 - people who care enough about trophies will beat the game on PS
3 - the amount of people that will switch from Steam to Sony storefront for anything but exclusives are food to be minuscule
4 - SE and Sony shortened PC exclusivity window because SE wants that sweet cash from Steam customers. Unless Sony pays even more it won’t happen.

Basically having its own storefront will demand a lot of work and money to setup and run from Sony for dubious returns.

Will Sony do that? Maybe, but it will be a mistake longer term.

2- To get 100% platinum it's very possible you need to complete NG+/Hard mode, which may require multiple playthroughs, to me it seems appealing to have the first playthrough on the PS5, then load up your save on PC and do a second playthrough there a few months later.
 

Fabieter

Member
1 - PC copy ain’t going to be free
2 - people who care enough about trophies will beat the game on PS
3 - the amount of people that will switch from Steam to Sony storefront for anything but exclusives are bound to be minuscule numbers
4 - SE and Sony shortened PC exclusivity window because SE wants that sweet cash from Steam customers. Unless Sony pays even more it won’t happen.

Basically having its own storefront will demand a lot of work and money to setup and run from Sony for dubious returns.

Will Sony do that? Maybe, but it will be a mistake longer term.

Using such absolute terms for something uncertain, especially in the long term, seems a bit strong. We`ll see how it goes.

People will forget what they claimed when things turn out differently than they thought.
 

harmonize

Member
Epic straight up gives games away on their store and PC gamers still don't use it enough for it to turn a profit, and that's with the Epic launcher being the home of one of the most popular games on PC. Nobody is gonna download a completely separate launcher to play Sony's cinematic action-adventure game #372, and they sure as hell won't use it to buy third-party releases that also release on Steam.
 
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StereoVsn

Gold Member
Using such absolute terms for something uncertain, especially in the long term, seems a bit strong. We`ll see how it goes.

People will forget what they claimed when things turn out differently than they thought.
We will see what happens. So far all the companies that are trying to do their own store haven’t been particularly successful. Epic blew over $1bil on EGS.
 

Elysium44

Banned
Using such absolute terms for something uncertain, especially in the long term, seems a bit strong. We`ll see how it goes.

People will forget what they claimed when things turn out differently than they thought.

Why personalise it with that last remark? Personally I think it would be a foolish move if Sony tried it, and would fail, but IF I am wrong then I would have absolutely zero problem acknowledging it. I'm not emotionally invested in the outcome.
 

Sinfulgore

Member
Lots of reasons, cross-save support, trophy support, PSN friend lists.

Again, there is this mentality that in order for Sony to have success they need to sell X copies of 3rd party software or take X percent of market share away from Steam.

Steam gains millions of users every year. Competing for these new users alone has value, let alone percentages of existing gamers. Many of them being console gamers, this is a pie worth getting into.

You realize that HBO Max is surging in profitability now right? Some fail and some succeed. There is a reason why HBO has been successful while others like Paramount have not.

If you can attest to the fact that Roblox, Minecraft, and Fortnite are 3 of the most popular games in the world and yet they're sold of Steam, you must realize that people are entirely willing to buy games off steam. Many people in these younger generates don't care at all about whether a game is on Steam or not.

So the idea that Sony wouldn't be able to sell their own first party games is a bit presumptive.

So this gets back to 3rd party games. Without subsidizing 3rd party like Epic does, it doesn't matter how much 3rd party games sell on your platform. Every 3rd party game sale is a profit.

It's a mistake for Epic to drop money year in and year out trying to make this happen inorganically when they could be spending more money on making more games that attract more users, and more users by themselves will attract 3rd parties. And again, as long as you're not bleeding money on these, any 3rd parties in your store is profit. It's sales you otherwise would not have.

Whether you have a 1 million 3rd party sales, 5 million 3rd party sales, or 100 million 3rd party sales.
I love how you say lots of reasons yet only list three. Most PC gamers don't own a PS5 so why exactly would we care about trophies or a friends list with 0 people on it because we don't have a PSN account? Or cross-saves with a version of a game on a platform we don't own? Why would PC gamers care about this stuff?

It's insane to think a PC gamer would prefer to have access to trophies and a PSN friends list over Steam Achievements and their Steam friends list. I honestly feel like you are trolling. There is no way someone could say something so silly.

HBO Max is not surging in profitability. WB and Discovery + have to merge Max, HBO cable subscribers, and Discovery + subscribers into one to make their numbers look good and still they are well behind Netflix and Disney+. Epic is doing better compared to Steam than HBO Max is to Netflix.

I never claimed PC games not on Steam can't sell well. Diablo 3 never came to Steam and that game sold incredibly well. None of this explains why you think PC gamers would buy third-party games on Sony PC Storefront over any other platform.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
I love how you say lots of reasons yet only list three. Most PC gamers don't own a PS5 so why exactly would we care about trophies or a friends list with 0 people on it because we don't have a PSN account? Or cross-saves with a version of a game on a platform we don't own? Why would PC gamers care about this stuff?

It's insane to think a PC gamer would prefer to have access to trophies and a PSN friends list over Steam Achievements and their Steam friends list. I honestly feel like you are trolling. There is no way someone could say something so silly.

HBO Max is not surging in profitability. WB and Discovery + have to merge Max, HBO cable subscribers, and Discovery + subscribers into one to make their numbers look good and still they are well behind Netflix and Disney+. Epic is doing better compared to Steam than HBO Max is to Netflix.

I never claimed PC games not on Steam can't sell well. Diablo 3 never came to Steam and that game sold incredibly well. None of this explains why you think PC gamers would buy third-party games on Sony PC Storefront over any other platform.


Where are the millions of new users coming from. When console players move to PC, having a pc store to capture them makes sense. Major first party titles can also help capture new gamers as well as popular GaaS. People moving from console to PC would like to have their friends list intact and the ability to continue where they left off on games on console.

Again, you seem confused at who the market is here and assume that its only people who have been on steam since 2003.

"It's not about how many subscribers, it's about how much money," David Zaslav said of WBD's streaming services, which lost subscribers in the third quarter.

Surprisingly with the same argument I'm making to you that you're ignoring. It's not how many users they get, it's whether they can generate profit from them.

If someone starts using the PS Store on PC for first party titles, they may opt to buy games within that ecosystem, especially if there are other perks that I mentioned. It doesn't have to be a tremendous number of users like 100 million. Even if they had 2-5 million users it could be profitable.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
The argument from this crowd would be HBO should just put their shows on Netflix.

Even Disney+ is set to be profitable.

HBO and Disney can be profitable without "taking out" Netflix.

When you look at emerging markets and having a presence there as PC gaming continues to grow, even capturing a portion of these new users will result in positive growth and margins.

Resigning yourself to Steam revenue when Steam can always increase their royalties isn't smart business and doesn't guarantee the margins a platform holder like Sony would want in the future. If Sony is thinking 20 years down the line, even having 5% of the PC market is going to result in greater profitability than just publishing your games on steam.

Sony's continued GaaS push will make even more sense on their own platform.

Lots of questions people refuse to answer, like why companies with big games don't put their games on Steam if it is a no brainer that there would be more revenue. Fortnite, Minecraft, and Roblox all remain off of Steam.

174 million minecraft users... no Steam...
230 million fortnite users... no steam...
216 million roblox usesrs.... no steam...

CoD only came to steam in 2022... and the majority of people play on... checks notes... not steam...
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
CoD was on Steam during its heyday and ended up coming back because that's what the players wanted.

LOL, that's the only thing you took from that, you don't want to address anything else.

No one is claiming that Steam isn't a huge platform.

But I bet you Helldivers 3 won't be on Steam. If a Destiny 3 comes out, it won't be on Steam either.

Again, the biggest problem other than technical problems with things like battle net is that they don't have enough in terms of first AND third party....

Sony can get more 3rd party support (without paying for it) than anyone else. And their 1st party support is more enticing than Epic, Activision, and CD Projekt.

But we're going round and round and I think we've all made our points. The best part from here will be the receipts...
 
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Sony should do a PC storefront even if they still put their games on Steam day 1. Insisting that it’s PS5 or the highway is cutting your nose off to spite your face.
 

harmonize

Member
But I bet you Helldivers 3 won't be on Steam. If a Destiny 3 comes out, it won't be on Steam either.
Zero chance this happens. The entire point of the PC pivot they're doing is because their profit margins for their first party games are so low they're looking for extra income elsewhere, and you think they're going to risk money by setting up a PC storefront that will never have more than a small fraction of the playerbase steam has when they've clearly seen more established devs on PC do exactly this (Epic, MS, ABK) and either not turn a profit or come groveling back to Steam? That's not happening.
 

RGB'D

Member
So you think Playstation will basically become a third party publisher, meanwhile steam and xbox have pc storefronts. why wouldn't they try to compete, considering they're one of the largest platform holders?
MS releases on their storefront and Steam. I do not think SONY would have an exclusive PC storefront because it would severely limit the efficacy of why they are releasing on PC in the first place. They could have their own store but it wouldn't be an exclusive PC storefront. And last I checked, releasing on PC doesn't make them 3rd party in the console space. There isn't any value in PS releasing on switch or Xbox, but day and date on PC is a growth that doesn't diminish their hardwares value in the console space.
 

RGB'D

Member
Steam gaming WON. They know it would be lost $ if they succumbed to a PC port and didn't bother going on Steam. Therefore, the only logical thing to do would be to copy Microsoft and release it on both their own pc 'Playstation/Sony' store app and also simultaneously on Steam
Exactly this. They are moving into PC gaming to make money because their console margins suck and are getting worse. Why the hell would they severely limit their ability to make money on PC? Most PC players already hate the SONY community for toxic behavior directed at PC gamers and paying to delay PC releases. PC gamers are beyond entrenched into steam; nobody is going to be rushing to support a SONY PC store. MS gets away with it because they literally are Windows but even then still release everything into steam day and date.
 

Larxia

Member
I just want trophy integration on PC. If that comes from a Sony storefront or integration with Steam.....either way, just make it happen.
I still don't understand that :messenger_confused: Like, okay let's say you get "trophies" on Steam, how would that work? How is it different from Steam achievements? They require the exact same goals and do the same things, so I'm struggling to imagine what trophies on steam would be like... since we have achievements, they would just be achievements called trophies?

Or maybe you mean that you want them to be synced with your PSN account? If so, it could be implemented directly in the games themselves I guess since some games like spider-man let you login with your PSN account for some rewards. They could most likely be cheated as easily as steam achievements I imagine though, if that's why you want "trophies" instead of "achievements".
 

Topher

Identifies as young
I still don't understand that :messenger_confused: Like, okay let's say you get "trophies" on Steam, how would that work? How is it different from Steam achievements? They require the exact same goals and do the same things, so I'm struggling to imagine what trophies on steam would be like... since we have achievements, they would just be achievements called trophies?

Or maybe you mean that you want them to be synced with your PSN account? If so, it could be implemented directly in the games themselves I guess since some games like spider-man let you login with your PSN account for some rewards. They could most likely be cheated as easily as steam achievements I imagine though, if that's why you want "trophies" instead of "achievements".

Yes, I would want them synced with PSN. Primary reason is I enjoy earning Platinum trophies.
 

Lunarorbit

Member
It's absolutely happening.

It's the only way day and date PC release for non gaas would ever happen imo.

PS5 + PC PS Store exclusive then come to stream some time later.
This seems like the way. I don't think Sony has beef with Valve like they do with Nintendo and Xbox. Why wouldn't these 2 giant companies work out a deal that benefits both.

As soon as this gets confirmed I'm diving into vr.
 

Topher

Identifies as young
I think all games on Steam have a equivalent to the platinum trophy, with a "collect all achievements" achievement.

Yeah, they have a blue ribbon thing to indicate that as well. I wish they would have this part of your profile so you can easily see the number of games where you've collected all achievements. That's really the only point to Platinum trophies, but folks like me like it.
 

Larxia

Member
Yeah, they have a blue ribbon thing to indicate that as well. I wish they would have this part of your profile so you can easily see the number of games where you've collected all achievements. That's really the only point to Platinum trophies, but folks like me like it.
But there is, if you go to your game list there is a "100% completed" tab.
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