Well at least that episode feels fully finished. So they get half a story or whatever. But I was thinking more like a voucher for a Doublefine game of their choice under $20.
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Double Fine halting Spacebase DF-9 development
- Thread starter JaseC
- Start date
Well at least that episode feels fully finished. So they get half a story or whatever. But I was thinking more like a voucher for a Doublefine game of their choice under $20.
CambriaRising
Member
Really surprised they would do this.
Then again this company had multiple kickstarters before the first KS game was even out so maybe they were never on the up and up.
Then again this company had multiple kickstarters before the first KS game was even out so maybe they were never on the up and up.
Early Access implies that it will eventually be finished, not that the developer says "eh, fuck it, we've got other things to do" and moves on. This absolutely puts DoubleFine in a category of publishers I'm unwilling to do business with. It's one thing if the risk is that the company went out of business and stopped making anything, but they fully plan to go on making games and likely charge people for more unfinished games that they may never actually complete.
The logic is that I refuse to do business with shitty companies who deceive customers and charge for products they abandon.
CecilRousso
Member
Multiple as in one more after the first one.
Wiktor
Member
If that was true you wouldn't be getting the finished the game when it launches on general Steam Store. But you do. You buy the game based on the notion it will be finished one day and work properly. There's a relationship based on trust formed between gamer and developer.
Now, I do think that there's no reason for any refunds. Early Access is clearly thing that might not work in the end. There's no guarantee. It's a risk everybody who buys a game there has to accept.
At the same time, this is clearly developer spectacularly failing to deliver on his promises. From this point on there's a huge reason to distrust anything they claim they can achieve, any Kickstarter and Early Access game they made should be assumed to be in substancial risk of underdelivering.
Personally I wouldn't necessary extend it all the games they ship finished, but even there I will be vary. Their lack of credibility will mean that the next episodic game they make I won't buy untill the last episode is done, because they might abandon it. I also won't buy any MP project they make, at least full price, because I lack the faith they will be able to support it. Any serious bugs on launch will also stop my purchase, because I can't be sure them to fix them. They're just not trustworthy anymore. So if I ever spend money on their games it will be when I'm content with how the product is when I buy it, as I can't assume it will ever get better.
All of this means that I will either not buy their games at all or buy them quite a bit after premiere, when they're unlikely to be full priced.
Azure Dream
Member
Okay, let's be reasonable here, most people paying into Early Access are expecting a finished product at the end of the process. Steam isn't in the habit of listing unfinished games as being for sale, barring a few limited exceptions. Perhaps the Early Access program is an official change on that position, but that would represent a major shift from Steam prior to the program.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
As someone who bought this when it first came out, this kinda blows.
I understand the realities of development and that there is inherent risk in buying something in early access. And though the game had issues I did enjoy it in a basic sort of way.
But on the other hand, them not seeing the game through to completion hurts my confidence in them and makes me reticent to buy something else from them in an early state.
Stopping development now may make sense right now from a financial perspective but the residual effects may hurt them in the long run.
I understand the realities of development and that there is inherent risk in buying something in early access. And though the game had issues I did enjoy it in a basic sort of way.
But on the other hand, them not seeing the game through to completion hurts my confidence in them and makes me reticent to buy something else from them in an early state.
Stopping development now may make sense right now from a financial perspective but the residual effects may hurt them in the long run.
The Early Access model came because of the consumer trust developer, they put hope for the game to be finish. If the company can't keep their promise (especially DF case, where feature creep keep coming, then delay and all of that jazz), the customer pay you up front of course they gonna be pissed and lost trust in you. I'm not trying to say that DF lie to people or something, but they got to do something about their project management, people trust is limited.
vagabondarts
Member
I LOVE Anno 1404! It's absolutely gorgeous!
I can't get it to play anymore though (bought it on steam years ago), which makes me sad.
Why not just buy their completed games? No preorders, no early access, etc. Just their finished games. Otherwise you set yourself up for disappointment.
Weird move - my impression is that games like this usually get popular once they're finished enough that players can frame events as meaningful stories.
I watched a bit of someone playing this the other day and it looked underwhelming but promising - it's a shame to see it abandoned.
I watched a bit of someone playing this the other day and it looked underwhelming but promising - it's a shame to see it abandoned.
Maintenance
Member
I however should get access to a product that will get finished, not ended like this will be.
If I thought they would not meet the goals then I would not back them, easy question. That's why I didn't back Star Citizen, its feature creep is above the charts.
If they are the kind of developers that will stop making a game midways just because "they felt they could not complete", then that's one more reason for me to further ignore them completely.
They likely ran out of money and couldn't secure more funds via other means. I fail to see how this is a reflection of Double Fine as a developer.
Also, this is a reality for all game developers, but with Early Access, we all get an opportunity to feel the sting!
Expectation:
"We are a stable developer aiming to release a stable fully featured game but instead of developing it behind closed doors and releasing it when it's done, we're opening up access to the game early and letting customers shape the game and help us test it."
Reality:
"We got little to no money but we're hoping the early access income allows us to keep developing our game that without early access wouldn't exists. If we run out of money, we're bailing out regardless how the game ends up. Won't you please take a chance on us?"
"We are a stable developer aiming to release a stable fully featured game but instead of developing it behind closed doors and releasing it when it's done, we're opening up access to the game early and letting customers shape the game and help us test it."
Reality:
"We got little to no money but we're hoping the early access income allows us to keep developing our game that without early access wouldn't exists. If we run out of money, we're bailing out regardless how the game ends up. Won't you please take a chance on us?"
graywolf323
Member
starting to get the feeling that Double Fine is a dev that needs a publisher to keep them on schedule...
never thought I'd say it but I'm starting to have sympathy for EA from the Brutal Legend fiasco
regret buying this in Early Access now, gonna have to make a note to not buy anything more Double Fine before it's actually finished and released between this fiasco and their Kickstarter messes
never thought I'd say it but I'm starting to have sympathy for EA from the Brutal Legend fiasco
regret buying this in Early Access now, gonna have to make a note to not buy anything more Double Fine before it's actually finished and released between this fiasco and their Kickstarter messes
CecilRousso
Member
People think that because it's one of very few studios that we have any insight in.
notoriousKTR
Member
Notch should buy DF.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
*insert snarky comment about how Kickstarter saves developers from evil publishers*
Not really.
You can't throw out a blanket statement like that. DF has proven time and time again to have lousy time/budget management skills.
Tim even made a joke about in the last DFA episode.
Define "finished".
Because technically they are finishing it. It just won't have all the features they (and you I guess) were hoping it would have.
On a more serious note...
I'm not too familiar with these types of games, so I'm very curious if anyone could enlighten me, what exactly is missing from it for it to be considered "complete". Like, core features? What can't you do that you think you should be able to?
Baron_Calamity
Member
ProfessorMoran
Member
Then people should stop supporting Double Fine when it comes to kickstarters and early access deals because of shit like this, otherwise the vicious cycle will simply continue, make them put out complete products on their own dime.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
Par for the course for DoubleFine. There is a reason publishers stopped publishing their games, and after DF's first Kickstarter and the subsequent debacle, I threw them into the trash. Charlatans.
yep. same for me.
TemplaerDude
Member
And how many games are black pits you toss money into and hope something comes out? Not the point, but for as many fun and open developers there are there are just as many who take your money and don't listen to anything other than the pleas and whining of people clamoring for a return on their investment. Because that's what you're doing, you're making an investment and regardless of whether they listen to feedback or not the idea that these are anything other than risks is bullshit.
CecilRousso
Member
They have, like so many other companies in the software field. People are using DF as an example just because they in most other cases only see the end result, not because DF actually are worse.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
Oh laudy. That's just awful but I cannot say that I am surprised. DoubleFine gonna DoubleFine.
I think that the interpretation of many is that they're lying scumbags. In reality, they're likely just more hopeful than their pocketbook.
Not that it's not shitty, but I would guess that the decision to suspend development came from above this guy.
DOBERMAN INC
Member
Really disappointing news, put around 11 hours into it so far and was looking forward to the potential updates.
on twitter JP pretty much took the "I'm not saying anything about anything"
I bet he leaves the company soon.
And, for what it's worth, they didn't just silently pull the plug. They announced that they're done and are releasing the source. That's something. Not something crazy like finishing the game and honoring your obligations, but it's something.
OverdriveOtaku
Member
Very real reason why I limit my Early Access purchases as much as possible. Really a shame for a company like DoubleFine to do that to a group of players who had good faith in them and this title.
Well i wasn't expecting this news today. I am glad I resisted the temptation to buy this game because if I did I probably would of been pretty angry. Well as angry as i can get about wasting money on a video game that doesn't deliver. Anyway I still support early access as I am happy with the early access games I did buy. This news does mean that I won't be giving Double Fine a cent for a game until it has been released.
Coffee Dog
Banned
debacle and charlatans huh
it went over budget
that's literally all that happened
quit acting like they ran some kind of con on you
But, and I'm not saying it's what happened here, development can still fall apart even if you took percautions. You might've thought you could finish it but for any reason couldn't. Shit happens.
You can predict every variable when it comes to something like this, that's why there's risk involved. Doesn't mean devs are stealing people's moneys or being lazy.
Also, if you don't have money to finish it then you simply can't finish it. Devs need to eat too.
You might be committing but it's not always possible to finish said game. When they commit with a producer they are doing the same thing but games still get canceled or have funding pulled from them.
If games by big companies can fail so can these. Development problems aren't exclusive to unexperienced devs and failure doesn't have to be related to laziness. Projects get canned all the time.
There can be tons of reasons for this to happen and jumping to laziness or greed just shows that maybe consumers don't really understand it.
They made a mistake and couldn't do everything they wanted to for whatever reason. It's part of the risk of EA or of funding any project. They still delivered a game that you can play right now.
Bomber Bob
Banned
poor JP Lebron
Lost all respect for Double Fine. Done with that company.
In the interest of being calm and rational (I know, crazy right?), here's an attempt at noting which of the features from the OP made it into the game. This is based on my experience and memory, so feel free to correct me:
(Things that straight-up didn't get done are in red).
Not actually that bad IMO, especially considering the last eight or so are clearly best-case-scenario pie-in-the-sky type deals that were never realistically going to happen.
(Things that straight-up didn't get done are in red).
My brain said:
Wanted to colour-code these, but no idea how to do coloured text on Gaf.
Not actually that bad IMO, especially considering the last eight or so are clearly best-case-scenario pie-in-the-sky type deals that were never realistically going to happen.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
Thanks for doing this. I asked for it earlier because it appeared no one in the discussion had actually played the game enough to comment on the infamous list.
I'm clearly in the minority here, but I'm not super cut-up about it. A lot of the posts here would lead you to believe we're dealing with an unfinished, broken game. That's not the case. What we're dealing with is a fun, functional game that lacks depth. A game that had potential to be great but ended up being just OK.
As I said earlier, I've logged 39 hours in Spacebase. It's been an interesting ride, and if they sort out the lingering bugs and balance issues before 1.0, I'll be back to play it again.