• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Dragon Ball Z: Dokkan Battle |OT3| The Zero Stones Plan Is In Effect

Shouta

Shouta

Member
Piku_Ringo said:
WTF?! I'm the only one here you spent 500 red coins on ssj4 lr vegeta and currently have 160?:messenger_unamused:
Click to expand...

I just gave up on him since I got Goku, lol. I've been sitting on them for awhile because there hasn't been anything that has jumped out at me that I wanted to grab.
 
Piku_Ringo

Piku_Ringo

Banned
Shouta said:
I just gave up on him since I got Goku, lol. I've been sitting on them for awhile because there hasn't been anything that has jumped out at me that I wanted to grab.
Click to expand...
Well, then it must be nice being so laissez faire with your red coins and not needing any of the units in the selection. :messenger_unamused:
 
Last edited:
Piku_Ringo

Piku_Ringo

Banned
Same here bros. Also I wanna thank the dude who made the blade 5 dokkan app. man does it making farming stuff in this game a lot less tedious
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
I was only gonna do 2 multi but decided to just do 4 and on my last one i got this Zenou and a Vegito animation that gave me this

3pC7wgX.jpg
Click to expand...

Also got DB Saga Goku
 
R

Reizo Ryuu

Member
Nice, did 200 stones and got jack shit, 0 featured. Even got the same trash ssr twice in a single multi; best thing I got was oceanus shenron lol.
 
Last edited:
R

Reizo Ryuu

Member
Yeah piccolo is coming back but I'm prolly not gonna summon, spent more stones trying to get bardock, but didn't get him; at least I got raditz and a dupe for LR gohan and goten.
Maybe if the banner sticks around long enough I'll do one multi.
 
Piku_Ringo

Piku_Ringo

Banned
I'm about ready to fraaaaaap all over this celebration to be honest. But at the very least we can look forward to Vegito EZA and Cell Campaign for 60 stones total
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
Did 4 Multis and got Piccolo and a bunch of other things, lol. I wanted to get 500 coins flat which is why I did so many. Now I just have to figure out how to get Nail.
 
Last edited:
R

Reizo Ryuu

Member
You'll prolly get him randomly since he's unfeatured on any banner; if you really want to hunt nail as featured, he prolly won't show up until a 30 stone planet namek saga, or namekians category banner.
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
Reizo Ryuu said:
You'll prolly get him randomly since he's unfeatured on any banner; if you really want to hunt nail as featured, he prolly won't show up until a 30 stone planet namek saga, or namekians category banner.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I figure the Namekians pick-up banner will probably have him but it'll be a matter of when.
 
R

Reizo Ryuu

Member
Wouldn't feel too bad about that result tbh, #13 is pretty awesome.
Dope transformed SA, dope themesong, -great- passive and if you pair him with the free #14/#15, you even get to see enemy super attacks for the entire battle.
Target goku is a pretty strong category too.
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
Honestly, I'd like a #13 too but I didn't get him and I'm not gonna spend the last of my stones, lol. I hope I can get back to 200-250 before anniversary hits but at least 175-200 stones.
 
Last edited:
R

Reizo Ryuu

Member
The baba shop #13 got a pretty badass dokkan btw, he's a good alternative if you still want to take advantage of the #14/#15 passive.
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
Honestly, the unit I want right now is the AGL LR Gohan for the Kamehameha type. I really like that Gohan and I'd like to use him and the INT A16 on a team but I'd need him to actually have the gohan to make it work, lol
 
Piku_Ringo

Piku_Ringo

Banned
I'm gonna hope for part 2 of this celebration they will release LR Genki dama SSJ Goku AGL, if that is the case can we get Agl support pan and Rildo dokkan awakenings already?
 
Piku_Ringo

Piku_Ringo

Banned
I dunno anymore, these two anni LRs still suck major ass for SBR and ESBR. could of been better


now for this season on battlefield


Screenshot_20200413-141636.png


Screenshot_20200413-141626.png

Screenshot_20200413-141617.png
Screenshot_20200413-141610.png

Screenshot_20200413-141604.png
Screenshot_20200413-141557.png
 
Piku_Ringo

Piku_Ringo

Banned
speaking of lrs, lets examine why the new Saiyajin Saga Lr released on JP sucks major ass.


Before anyone reads my summation on the unit, I just want to make it abundantly clear that I think this is not a good unit. If you disagree with me, please read the argument I make below, as it will provide valuable insight to the reason I think this. The last thing I'd like is to have an argument with someone who hasn't attempted to consider my actual argument before they let their outrage determine their actions.


__________


So, An exchange Nappa into Vegeta. This is hands down one of the most hyped units we've seen released as a normal legendary summon, as people have been wanting a good saiyan saga Vegeta since the game came out.


But unfortunately, in my opinion, not only has Dokkan not delivered on the hype this unit deserves, in my opinion, this is hands down one of the most pathetic modern LRs the game has ever released.


Allow me to explain why I think that way.


__________


So, we're going to go from top to bottom on this unit. The first thing we have to inspect is their lead; the 'Diabolical Villains' category is certainly an interesting one in concept. A category compromised of Villains who carelessly killed their allies should make for a rather good EXT type category, right?


Well.


https://puu.sh/Fy9ay/b4fae7766a.png


Above is an image of all relevant units in the category; and to me, I actually despaired when I saw the category. See, it's a 'good' category in that it doesn't lack good overall choices. There are plenty of excellent units individually here that can make for a solid enough team; Both Brolies, most good Frieza Units, and quite a bit of the best Goku Black has to offer as well makes for an overall compelling argument for this being a good category.


That is, until you consider the one leading it; He shares almost no archetypal "villain" links with.. anybody. Nappa as a unit for linking with other villains has much to be desired. And currently, in order to run this category, you have to run two of him.


His EXT AGL Sublead of course presents ever-present value, as there are plenty of good units to slide into this team such as AGL Turles, AGL Towa, AGL Final Form Cooler, and more. The distressing trend, though, is that any of these units that could make for a good partner with the leader itself could just be better used to one of the existing team members.


Why pair AGL Turles with Nappa when TEQ Broly exists on the team?


Why give AGL Rilldo to Nappa & Vegeta when Super Baby 2 links far better with him and thusly does far more damage?


Why sit them alongside AGL Cooler when AGL Final Form Frieza exists to do the same thing while linking far better?


You should already be noticing a trend, but it's one that grows sharply as we further inspect what this card is actually capable of.


__________


The only thing that's actually good for this unit at all is their SA buffs, imo. Without the great raise of ATK&DEF on both pre-exchange and post, this card'd get manhandled in SBR with total certainty. However, because they don't stack and have an underwhelming max capacity, this is as far as they go in usefulness, unable to really make a statement on their usefulness on any long event.


And I do mean "SBR", and not "ESBR". They function with a level of usefulness that brings value but not competitive value in type & category SBR. In Extreme SBR, their lack of high defense to start with on low value leads - due to monotypes still not having much in the way of anything above a 120% lead - leaves this card extremely vulnerable pre-super and not doing too much better post super.


In my testing if you use them in E AGL E SBR, you're in for a world of hurt. On one such occasion I had them in first slot, expecting this "defensively focused LR" to survive the 3 attacks he had to deal with.


One super for 278k and 2 70k normals later, and I was dead before I even managed to super attack. A defensively viable unit this card is not, at least in the context of extreme SBR.


__________


Now for by far the most depressing part of analyzing this unit, besides his links.


We're going to do his passive & active skill in one big bundle. Basically; This is the least cohesively designed LR Bandai Namco / Akatsuki has ever released.


He's supposed to be some sort of jack of all trades, master of none - but due to a complete lack of synergy with any one person, on any one team - this just makes him a master of none.


With a low overall ATK & DEF boost, very mid-tier ATK & DEF stats, low value ATK links, and few good options to fix any one of their specific problems, the only thing this unit particularly excels at in any one area is giving themselves ki.


For example, Nappa usually finds himself starting at 11-13 ki, and that's to say nothing of Vegeta, who can have 13 - 16ki starting out.


But none of that matters if all that ki isn't going to anything impressive in terms of damage.


Let me explain, point by point, why this unit is a complete and total failure from the ground up.


__________


The first part of the unit that severely becomes a depressing, mismanaged mess is Nappa's passive. With an ATK&DEF boost of a minimum of 78% and averaging Ki +4 under most circumstances, Nappa's boosts, including being an AoE, would lead one to believe that Nappa has some unexpected value in places such as World Tournament.


And perhaps he would, if not for the release of PHY Prime Battle Krillin, who, is also an AoE, and actually nearly doubles Nappa's APT on World Tournament. It's actually quite fucking sad.


This is primarily due to the fact that Krillin benefits more from his higher flat boost per enemy, as well as being able to super twice. In fact, Krillin is second only to Broly, really, in terms of his strength in the world tournament. When you then go on to consider that Nappa is quite literally half as good as a completely free option, it boggles the mind as to why you would ever want to use him in this capacity.


So, we then have to hope that Nappa finds sustained success as an SBR AoE tanky type of guy.


And as I mention above, Nappa does indeed find some success as a SBR AoE unit. But.. he's easily one of the worst choices overall in terms of a "good" AoE. Under his own lead at rainbow - yes, full dupes and max equips - Nappa only hits 1.4m on launch with his SA without any type of support, just relying on all links activated.


Not only that, but he lacks any debuffing to pair with a lower stat, giving him no utility. Despite a passive jam-packed with various abilites, they all benefit ONLY Nappa. If we compare him to someone like AGL Final Form Frieza, whom also has the ability to seal on an AoE as well as stun when facing a singular enemy - The difference in damage they deal on AoE is very similar, while Frieza can link well with a variety of units that enjoy better usage than Nappa.


For example, Frieza has Thirst for Conquest and can give such a link to LR Baby, who is hands down superior in every way to LR Nappa under those conditions. You still hit everyone with an AoE from Frieza, and Baby has the ability to tank extremely well while also dealing far more damage and has his utility of lowering enemy ATK as well as being able to transform to clutch out victories.


__________


The most bewildering part, though, of Nappa's passive, is that he requires dodging to get a higher output from his passive. He does not dodge innately, and as such, at free dupes as an AGL unit, can't dodge from hidden potential system either. So, due to that, in order for half of Nappa's passive to even activate, you need to use his active.


Nappa's active halves his attack for the entire turn, but lets him dodge at 100% rate. Many people have lent extreme credence to this, as Nappa supposedly gains 78% ATK every time he dodges, so, in theory, you would only need to dodge 2 attacks before you would start seeing ATK gain.


Unfortunately, Nappa's 78% attack bonus doesn't stack. This means no matter what, when you activate Nappa's active, your damage suffers.


Something else that blows my mind is the fact that Nappa's active exists in in the current climate of Dokkan. Sure, theoretically, his dodge could help quite abit; But then again, LR Baby can do the exact same thing, except for 1-2 entire turns, while dealing far more damage, and also not linking terribly with every single option you could partner him with.


Hell, if you need someone to tank and don't care about damage on Pure Saiyans, you could just use INT Hercule if there isn't a category restriction. If there is.. Just use STR SSJ3 Vegeta. But then again, there are countless dozens of options on Pure Saiyans that are outright superior in every way.


__________


I feel like people are far too prepared to give a unit lots of credence if they have one specific mechanic; In my opinion, this case involves a lot of hype around the fact that Nappa can both dodge and deal AoE damage, when he's not particularly impressive in either category.


He only can dodge once per fight with his active, and in some cases you'll probably transform into Vegeta before you can even utilize his dodge on things like long events. So on SBR you only have a single turn of true potent defensive value.


Compare that to someone like INT Godku who always has a high chance to dodge, at least for the period of time in which you'll realistically remain on an SBR stage, while also dealing easily double the damage Nappa could ever do.


Nevermind units like AGL Caulifla & Kale, who also can dodge at a regular pace while easily having far higher defensive numbers.


The biggest problem I've encountered using Nappa is that he can do many things individually, he's just not good at doing any of them. His damage is low overall, he only gets to dodge for a single turn and while he does it his damage suffers without being able to even properly benefit off of his dodge boost, he links with nobody, and the only stage he's particularly noticably valuable in, he's outdated for because dozens of cards have released since he's been out that completely trivialize the stage anyway.


Perhaps if Nappa existed 2 to 3 years ago, he would currently be a well remembered example of a good SBR utility and a way to give a unit a lot of variety in card design.


However, today, in an era of hyper-focused teambuilding where most units can do easily 5 to 6 million damage per turn, Nappa has no point in existing.


__________


Finally, his links, and then we will talk briefly about Vegeta.


Nappa has horrendous links.


No prepared for battle means that he can't link well with a majority of saiyans; He lacks E AGL hallmark links such as Thirst for Conquest and Fear and Faith, his only links with really any uptime for anyone but copies of himself and Nappa units is Brutal Beatdown and Shattering the Limit.


I would say with complete certainty that this is overall the worst linkset on any summonable LR individually. Cell has problems with ki, Trunks & Mai has issues linking outside of Future & Time Travellers, Boujack requires a partner with his trademark links to do good damage.. but none of them have an issue where their links basically don't matter.


Because the difference in Nappa's output when you activate all of his links and the difference without is so shockingly little due to how much they shafted what his links actually do for him that it legitimately impresses me.


At some point, someone had to know that what they were doing was permanently damaging to this unit. Someone on the design team had to take a look at what they were doing and stop, and think, "Hey, I don't think I've ever seen this link activated before."


It's like Nappa is an elaborate thought experiment to see how bad they can make a card and still try to trick people into summoning for him.


__________


Finally, a ramble about Vegeta.


Vegeta is just like.. Fine.


If this card started out as Vegeta, I think I'd actually like him, given he had better links, as Vegeta still suffers from the foibles of Nappa's leftovers. He still lacks prepared for battle, lacks one of Vegeta's signature links in Saiyan Pride, and still needs his hand held quite abit in order to really perform.


If Vegeta had Fierce Battle as well as Saiyan Pride & Prepared for Battle, I think there's a seriously good chance as a solo unit he could've been amazing next to someone like LR SSJ4 Vegeta.


Unfortunately, Vegeta is caged behind a fairly mediocre transformation condition; Requiring you to be below 50% HP and needing to wait a minimum of 4 turns to get there.


As such, I think my largest issue with Vegeta is how underpowered he is for such a punishing transformation condition.


If we compare him to the only other Exchange LR, The Android Trio, it actually shocks one to see the difference in strength.


Now, true, you don't permanently remain as Android 16. And true, the HP restriction on Android 16's setup is still a difficult one to obtain with how tanky Androids is as a general rule.


But, let's do a thought experiment.


Android 16 only requires 2 or more other "Android" category allies and for HP to be 66% or below, and also has an additional benefit where you can automatically transform into him when facing an enemy who's name is "Cell."


Vegeta has a far harsher HP requirement, forcing you to be below half health, and in addition, you must wait a minimum of 4 turns. There's no alternative requirement that lets you cheat the condition, such as facing Goku, for example.


So, logically, Vegeta would be the stronger of the pair, considering he requires much more to get him to the point where he can transform.


Unfortunately, the opposite is true; Android 16 both has better and more consistent links for his team while transformed, but also is just far, far stronger overall.


Gaining an incredible ATK&DEF +200%, and an unconditional chance to deal critical hits at a high rate, he even further benefits against his "favored" enemy of cell, getting to do a guaranteed additional super attack. When in these conditions Android 16 is easily among the strongest of the strong, an incredibly potent unit that can easily annihilate anyone who stands before him.


In comparison, Vegeta's harder to obtain state isn't even in the top 15 among LRs, even if he started that way. His boost is under 150%, making it almost half comparatively, he DOES gain super effective, but only when he hits max Ki, and his low ki boosting links make this goal even more difficult than usual, despite the excellent amount of Self Ki vegeta obtains normally.


__________


I think that they had to have known that this unit was being sent out to die. That's the only logical explanation that can come to me, besides they were meant to be Free to Play and were accidentally made into a Gacha general pool LR.


Because if these units were free-to-play, I think they'd still be an excellent choice amongst free-to-play options; The most staggering part overall is that most free-to-play LRs are superior to this one.


Nappa/Vegeta's APT is 3.3 million; The lowest in the game amongst summonable LRs, and even a handful of Prime Battle LRs surpass him, such as LR SSJ Prime Battle Vegeta, whom has a 3.8m APT. Nevermind the LRs that are considered truly excellent, such as Goku & Arale, Metal Cooler Corps, LR Blackmasu, and of course, Mecha Frieza & King Cold.


If he was a story reward LR or perhaps the reward for the new event that's coming out, I would actually have loved this card.


But the truth remains; This is a card you have to reasonably spend money to acquire. Only the luckiest of the lucky manage to get an LR with freely obtained dragon stones on their first banner appearance.


Most of us have to wait months if not a year or longer saving coins or praying we get lucky enough to get the LR we actually want. When they release units like this, It's not so much so that it personally offends me, it just troubles me, because now in the future it becomes more difficult to guarantee quality from my summons involving E AGL LRs, and general pool LRs as well.


That said, if you enjoy Nappa & Vegeta, please, don't let me stop you from doing so. They have lovely animations and hopefully will find a better partner in the coming days, although the partner they'd need to find to become something worthwhile would need to be something truly exceptional, a TEQ Tien to LR Goku & Frieza, or an AGL Turles to a TEQ Broly.


As such, they lack anything resembling that, because they have no stated value being run anywhere.
Click to expand...
 
R

Reizo Ryuu

Member
Someone's got too much time on their hands, or they are trying too hard to become a dokkan scholar.
The bad parts about the card are the links and somewhat the active, but aside from that the card is completely fine.
Berating the card for having "low def" is just ridiculous since only LR super baby 2 rivals it; when it exchanges into vegeta, it completely dunks on any extreme AGL card defense wise.
And also, there are a shitton of cards who need to super before getting their defense boost, it's not something new, it just means you have to change your rotations accordingly. The same is true for many of the "heavy hitting" LR's; nobody in their right mind would put TEQ LR broly in the first slot on SBR because that's a quick way for an instant game over screen.

Bringing up ESBR is even more silly since it's a new mode, I've beaten all SBR's and comfortably clear a bunch of them without any issue. But when SBR was new, most of it felt really fucking impossible.
So they don't perform that great in ESBR, well so don't 99% of all cards atm.
The LR #16 comparison is also kinda silly because he only sticks around for 3 turns, which means you can only attack with him 2 times. Meanwhile vegeta is going to sit there for the rest of the battle with 3m attack every turn and 300k def at only 55% dupe system; oh and he'll reach 24 ki most of the time giving him that sweet type advantage damage.

People are taking this bubble popping game too seriously smh.
 
Piku_Ringo

Piku_Ringo

Banned
And this is what Reizo is running Free PR for

r3ukMfWueOX_n5rJoSR7kRYyOmkESqvsAjTyF6DcoMM.jpg





this unit is honestly kinda sad, and no I'm not talking about it being sad because it's not the strongest unit ever or whatever, I'm ok with mediocrely good/bad units, but because it doesn't really accomplish anything while being under the power curve for most of it's uses.


nappa has an aoe, yes, but said aoe deals next to no damage so you'd be better off just using a normal unit that deals good damage to a single unit rather than them. And they're not even that usable in wt since they don't belong in full power or movie bosses which dominates the meta thanks to the fact that str fat buu, pb krillin and the 15434 brolys exist







z3n25nddedt41.jpg



Now this is looking like hot fire
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

LTTP | Shin Megami Tensei : Devil Survivor 2 Record Breaker
LTTP
2
427
DelireMan7 replied
LTTP | Valkyrie Profile 2 : Silmeria
LTTP
15
967
DelireMan7 replied
Baldur’s Gate 3’s Patch 7 is live, huge patch notes!
2
66
6K
Cyberpunkd replied
Blizzard announces massive changes to Diablo 4 starting Season 4
News
2
1K
clarky replied
Dragon's Dogma is an RPG like no other
Opinion
22
3K
SaintALia replied
Top Bottom