Support NeoGAF

[Boss Mog]

"The Company’s overseas studios will continue to publish franchises such as JUST CAUSE"

This has just given my hopes and dreams for a Just Cause 5 with full co-op a huge boost.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Smells like trimming the fat for a restructuring / sale. I can imagine a potential buyer would have no use to such gigantic sized teams without the talent of years past.
Interesting.

 

[KyoZz]

This is really good news, Square has been completely incompetent in handling all these IPs.
Now do a new Legacy of Kain ffs!

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

The license was between Marvel and Square Enix so Square Enix should have the license but now they have nobody to make their marvel games because they just sold off their western division and their Japanese divisions are all tied up in projects already.

I think this could mean three things:

1) Either the two marvel games: Marvel's Avengers and the Guardians of the Galaxy completed the licensing deal. Because the original deal was multiple Marvel games, they never specified how many. So the licensing agreement could have been fulfilled with those two games.

or

2) Square Enix sold off their western division/IPs in an effort to become cheaper in order to be acquired with the marvel games license still in tact for whoever acquires Square Enix.

Another possibility is due to change in ownership and corporate structure Marvel/Disney may be allowed to reclaim the license early, if the contract hasn't been fulfilled. It all depends on how it's written in the contract.

 

[reksveks]

Yea I don't have them just know from couple sales people on twitter that it's well beyond the 5 million that was reported in 2020. And that was on 1 platform. FF15 was on 3 platforms and has been out since 2016. and it sold like 10 Million.

I would wait for official numbers when saying ff7r outsold ff xv. Ff7r did well but I don't know if it was block busters especially given the hype behind it. I say that as someone who had ff7 on pc, ps1, ps3, switch and Xbox

 

[Papacheeks]

I would wait for official numbers when saying ff7r outsold ff xv. Ff7r did well but I don't know if it was block busters especially given the hype behind it. I say that as someone who had ff7 on pc, ps1, ps3, switch and Xbox

My point was it sold last time it was recorded half of what FF15 did and was on 1 platform. Not including PS5 release or PC. FF15 was on PC, XBox and Playstation. and FF7R did over half of what it did on 1 platform.

 

[reksveks]

My point was it sold last time it was recorded half of what FF15 did and was on 1 platform. Not including PS5 release or PC. FF15 was on PC, XBox and Playstation. and FF7R did over half of what it did on 1 platform.

Yeah, without platform splits for ffxv, not sure that we can make a good apple for apple comparison.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

This move makes completely uninterested in anything coming from Square Enix. These franchises were literally the only ones i cared about.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Why is it when a studio or studios gets bought that we think all of sudden a loved franchise from a decade or more will somehow make a comeback? Has this happened yet? I guess MS brought back KI after years of owning the ip. Any other examples?

Lol seriously. You honestly think some large corporation is buying these studios so they can revive some decades old niche IP that barely anybody remembers? You think THAT’s the value Embracer wanted to unlock? Get real.

BTW the KI example is a good one but it’s a little different, because Rare is a first party studio and MS wanted to broaden Xbox’s appeal as much as possible.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Sorry guys, with Sony’s current vision and direction, I don’t see them as interested in SquareEnix now that it seems like the Western IP’s were sold off. I could be wrong, but I have my doubts.

 

[C2brixx]

Crazy all 3 of those studios only manage to do $8 million in profit. For comparision Activ/Blizzard did $5.1 billion in profit last year. Gives perspective to why Microsoft is paying so much.

 

[adamsapple]

Crazy all 3 of those studios only manage to do $8 million in profit. For comparision Activ/Blizzard did $5.1 billion in profit last year. Gives perspective to why Microsoft is paying so much.

Yeah, puts things into real perspective how bad Square's management was that they were basically ready to sell the studios for peanuts in the grand scheme of recent acquisitions.

 

[reksveks]

Crazy all 3 of those studios only manage to do $8 million in profit. For comparision Activ/Blizzard did $5.1 billion in profit last year. Gives perspective to why Microsoft is paying so much.

Off the top of my head, it's like 50x the revenue and like 400x the operating income

 

[Baki]

Off the top of my head, it's like 50x the revenue and like 400x the operating income

Nope. Both studios did $190M in revenue. So Embracer is paying 1.57x revenue multiple.

 

[LordCBH]

Sorry guys, with Sony’s current vision and direction, I don’t see them as interested in SquareEnix now that it seems like the Western IP’s were sold off. I could be wrong, but I have my doubts.

If Sony wasn’t interested in squares output, they wouldn’t be paying to have squares Japanese titles exclusively on the platform.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

To be honest Deus Ex Human Revolution was a fantastic game Tomb Raider 2013 was also pretty good, and most recently Guardians of the Galaxy was great, the feeling that i have is that SE never gave a crap about their western branches, Tomb Raider would be way to similar to Uncharted ? ineed but the IP "Tomb Raider" It still beloved by many and If done properly it would sell millions Deus Ex it's another historic IP that under proper hands would also flourish at my point of view.

If done properly? So you think putting in like 100-200 million dollar budget. That is high stakes for a game that may or may not have outlived its usefulness.

Again, you can't assume nostalgia is going to make a game sell 20 million copies.

 

[ComputerBlue]

Hope they give human revolution some love and release it on modern consoles.

 

[Badlucktroll]

Vae Victus! Time for a modern Legacy Of Cain!

 

[Gambit2483]

There's nothing in what I played of that game where it felt the game's monetization came after the fact. If that was going to be the plan then they would have forced Guradians to have something similar and have a content plan for that game as well.

It was a group that chose to build levels a specific way and created a boring game loop. Monetization is easily a fixable thing as seen with Halo, GT7. Whats not easy to fix is a gameplay loop.

Team behind avengers had no clue what they were doing in making a game. Destiny's game loop though in terms of actual played content in the base game is shallow, the loop is fun as fuck. Avengers the loop isn't fun after 15 minutes and your doing the same thing over and over. Monetization or not.

The game is just not fun, nor is it fun with friends.



Jeff Grubb implies the same thing I've been saying, that Square is trimming the fat for a larger buyout/Merger. Pretty sure its Sony. They heavily invested in with Square, and recently I feel there's a reason there was no platforms listed for KH4.

The gameplay loop and level design felt like a direct result of going GAAS. They could not focus on a more linear structure like Guardians because of that.

Like I said, going GAAS ultimately hurt the game in its core design. We can agree to disagree.

 

[reksveks]

Nope. Both studios did $190M in revenue. So Embracer is paying 1.57x revenue multiple.

Talking about the gap between CD/Eidos and ABK

CD Rev: $170m (remember Eidos is in CAN and not USD)
CD OI: $7m

ABK Rev: $8354m (49x)
ABK OI: $3260m (465x)

 

[Labadal]

Honestly, if S-E get bought, which I think they won't, it will be Nintendo, and not Sony that picks them up.

 

[Captain Toad]

None of the loser “insiders” got the run up on this?. Figured them asshole would have said something if they did know.

Same as EVERY other time about rumored acquisitions versus actual acquisitions.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Honestly, if S-E get bought, which I think they won't, it will be Nintendo, and not Sony that picks them up.

i think if nintendo buys anyone it's capcom

SE is a shitshow

 

[Labadal]

i think if nintendo buys anyone it's capcom

SE is a shitshow

They aren't in a great shape, but they are doing okay on Nintendo consoles. Bravely Default II, Octopath Traveler, and Triangle Strategy all did okay. I think even the SaGa and Mana games did acceptable numbers. They would have a decent amount of JRPGs. Not that the Switch is lacking in that area, but the user base seems like the right fit.

 

[Kokoloko85]

i think if nintendo buys anyone it's capcom

SE is a shitshow

Theyd definetly want that Monster Hunter IP not to go anywhere else. But it would be shame for games like Resident Evil, Devil May Cry that use stronger tech/graphics for there games. RE2- RE1Remake- RE4 pushed gaming graphics at the time

Dont Nintendo own shares in Namco?

 

[MonarchJT]

Crazy all 3 of those studios only manage to do $8 million in profit. For comparision Activ/Blizzard did $5.1 billion in profit last year. Gives perspective to why Microsoft is paying so much.

exactly people on GAF overstimate and understimate LOTS of things

 

[nominedomine]

Nope. Both studios did $190M in revenue. So Embracer is paying 1.57x revenue multiple.

Makes the deal look even more like a complete fleece. They going to do a lot better with even slightly competent management instead of whatever SE was doing.

 

[remember_spinal]

im actually pretty happy future square enix events won’t have the western games now. Having a big square enix conference center around Guardians of The galaxy and avengers is lame. I liked GoTG but when i see SE presents i want the big boys, final fantasy, kingdom hearts, dragon quest, xenogears remaster, FFT remake, FF7 Remake…

My ideal future was always that square would split their western division to microsoft and sony would take the eastern. It’s honestly baffling to me that Microsoft didnt pick them up.

I think this is proof that microsofts hands are tied behind the Activision merger cause theres just no way square has been trying to sell off their western division for so long as the articles state and microsoft passed on it for 300 million.

I wouldn’t be surprised if microsoft isn’t paying a 3rd of that for CD to work on Perfect Dark.

 

[Gambit2483]

They aren't in a great shape, but they are doing okay on Nintendo consoles. Bravely Default II, Octopath Traveler, and Triangle Strategy all did okay. I think even the SaGa and Mana games did acceptable numbers. They would have a decent amount of JRPGs. Not that the Switch is lacking in that area, but the user base seems like the right fit.

Outside of that Kingdom Hearts Cloud blunder fiasco SE is doing amazing on Switch.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

300k? Amazing how neither Sony nor Microsoft bought them for that price.

 

[skneogaf]

This deal reaffirms my opinion that xbox buying Activision for all that money is stupid!

So many more interesting studio's at such a small amount of money compared.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

If Sony wasn’t interested in squares output, they wouldn’t be paying to have squares Japanese titles exclusively on the platform.

Very good point, but I thought it was mostly the Final Fantasy games Sony were interested in for the paid timed exclusives with a few exceptions here and there. I thought SE developed some games on Sony platforms exclusively because they feel that’s where they feel the fan base for those games are without Sony having to pay for exclusivity. I just assume that IF Sony were to buy SquareEnix, that they would look much more appealing to them with those Western games in their catalog than Japanese games only.

 

[LordCBH]

Good point, but I thought it was mostly the Final Fantasy games Sony were interested in for the paid timed exclusives with a few exceptions here and there. I thought SE developed some games on Sony platforms exclusively because they feel that’s where the fan base is without them having to be paid for by Sony for exclusivity.

Honestly? Not 100% sure either way. With how similar consoles are these days, the payment reasoning makes more sense to me.

 

[Fess]

Thank god it’s not a platform holder

My thought exactly.

Once again, this makes me believe Sony is prepping to buy Square Enix, and of course SE isn’t gonna give that reasoning in their official statement. My reasons as so why I think this is even more likely….

• Sony already have console exclusivity for all of Square Enix’ bigggest franchises. Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Final Fantasy XVI, Final Fantasy XIV, Forspoken, and who knows what else….
• A very large majority of sonys game history is tied to Squaresoft/enix, with them starting PS Premium and opening up their back catalogue it gives them the freedom to add stuff like chrono trigger, final fantasy collection, xenogears, Final Fantasy tactics, vagrant story, etc. etc.
• I dont think Sony would have wanted the western branch, its even more inefficiency to have to manage. Way more mouths to feed and they don’t really turn out big profitable games. Sony also already have Tomb Raider at home, which makes far more money in gaming and the box office now
• The long history and relationship between the two companies. It also helps that Sony is still a japanese company at the end of the day. The whole narrative about ‘culture clashing’ really doesn’t come into play here

I’m not saying for sure I think it’s happening but if Square Enix is looking to sell then it will most likely be Sony. I could see them staying multiplatform but keeping final fantasy exclusively on playstation from now on. They’re already locked to their console right now and nintendo systems aren’t equipped to even run them. Nintendo will sitll get bravely default, Asano games, DQ games….

How interesting is Square Enix without Crystal Dynamics and Eidos?
It’s the IP library I guess because Final Fantasy isn’t what it used to be and they take too long to develop and Sony pretty much act like they own the IP already. The online FF serie is a thing though but for me personally it would be a ”Oh no. Anyway…” scenario. It would piss off Switch owners too and hate is rarely a positive thing.

 

[kiphalfton]

Pretty crazy, this is a bigger buy than Activision and only cost 300M!!!

And ~1/250 the price too.

 

[Firestartah]

For those hoping Thief and Deus Ex will git gud, forget it.

Those franchises were only good because they were developed by small teams that didn't had to make games that generated hundreds of millions in revenue.

What is there to get good for Deus Ex? Human Revolution and Mankind Divided are phenomenal games and in my top 5 (out of 300+ games lifetime). While a good portion of the fanbase will say the first is still the best, that doesnt mean if something isnt the best its not very good (I think literally everyone will agree they are much better than Invisible War at the very least).

They also made Guardians which is an underrated gem. Their only half-fault was the Thief game, and lets not pretend that game was a disaster or something, it just didnt make an impact.

Eidos are one of the most underrated gaming studios around and I'm hyped for their inevitable next Deus Ex game.

 

[C2brixx]

I think this is proof that microsofts hands are tied behind the Activision merger cause theres just no way square has been trying to sell off their western division for so long as the articles state and microsoft passed on it for 300 million.

I see this mentioned a lot and I just don't buy it. Microsoft could enter into extended exclusive acquisition negotiations with a company that aren't disclosed until post execution of Activision deal.

If Microsoft were interested in Crystal Dynamics/Edios and we're offering $500M-$1Billion I sure Square wouldn't have had any problem waiting 6-12 months for the Activision deal to conclude.

 

[remember_spinal]

How interesting is Square Enix without Crystal Dynamics and Eidos?

For Sony, probably more interesting without them than with. They have spent the bulk of their money buying timed exclusivity for their eastern games. I dont think Sony care about the western division at all, Uncharted has too much overlap with Tomb Raider and Deus Ex and LoK are not big IP’s. They certainly aren’t any bigger than Sonys already dormant IP.

In fact, I don’t think sony has ever had so much as a marketing deal with Square Western division.

the IP library I guess because Final Fantasy isn’t what it used to be

I mean, this is just kind of objectively wrong lol. FFXV for as much as people disliked it still sold gangbusters, its one of the top selling games in the series. FFXIV is the biggest MMORPG on the planet right now, and FF7 Remake is a big enough draw that sony is still extending exclusivity for it.

Then you have franchises like Kingdom Hearts thats already tied to Disney, You have Dragonquest, their legacy content, and you still have stuff like Life is Strange which is being turned into a tv show.

As far as Nintendo fans go, I don’t think that really matters. I don’t 100% feel if this were to happen that sony would cut off nintendo games, I also don’t feel like if they did they would care about making people “mad”. Microsoft certainly didn’t care about making people mad when they bought bethesda, a publisher that is notorious for their multiplatform titles that release on every single console including switch. No matter what all these acquisitions are going to make large groups of gamers upset

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Granted most of the stuff they own Ive never heard of before or are indie level, but if you want to see the biggest compilation of gaming studios, Embracer Group has to be it.

Embracer Group - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[remember_spinal]

sure Square wouldn't have had any problem waiting 6-12 months for the Activision deal to conclude.

I mean, how could you possibly be sure of something like that? We have absolutely no idea the urgency square enix had to sell off those divisions much less wait another fiscal year to do it, thats a long time and a lot of money for a company that size

 

[Ordnasella_Edadnirt]

If done properly? So you think putting in like 100-200 million dollar budget. That is high stakes for a game that may or may not have outlived its usefulness.

Again, you can't assume nostalgia is going to make a game sell 20 million copies.

You have a point and i do agree, certain IP's have a long history with lots of ups and downs overusing an IP can damage their image forever, so putting things aside for a moment sometimes is the best thing to do, but investing in a new IP also comes with risks as pretty much everything in the gaming industry it is about high risks, take a look at Santa Monica for example there were people claiming that the God of War IP should have been killed after GOW Ascension, a change was needed. so they gave the proper time and bet high with their new idea, the result ? the game was a hit and it sold nearly 20 million copies, nostalgia is not going to sell games that's for sure but there is no denying that is way easier to sell a product if people heard or used before.

 

[oldergamer]

There's a rumor that this thread has just been aquired by Tencent.

If this thread is only worth 10 cents then i see what you did there

 

[Sleepwalker]

That's a surprise but a welcome one. Square sucks dick and now they have 0 ips left that I care about.

 

[Yoboman]

Yeah, puts things into real perspective how bad Square's management was that they were basically ready to sell the studios for peanuts in the grand scheme of recent acquisitions.

Squares management is pretty shakey

But on the other hand they gave these western studios plenty of chances to come up with a winner and even gave them a golden goose with the Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy and they still fell flat on their face

 

[brian0057]

MFW Square Enix burns hundreds of millions of dollars between remaking FFXIV and the 10 year albatross that is FFXV but somehow it's the western studios that are the problem.
Fuck 'em.

 

[tommib]

Wake me up when someone re-releases classic Tomb Raider with PowerVR level bilinear filtering on current consoles:

 

[Jayjayhd34]

Hope this means revival of sleeping dogs and a new deus ex game.

 

[Daytonabot]

If they sell off the Taito IPs, Sony can have what's left. Square and Enix without Matsuno have no value to me.

 

[remember_spinal]

Imagine if sony bought CD, Jeff Ross would have been back at sony