Support NeoGAF

[Sweden85]

My guess is that price is a contributor. If you buy games on PS-store even at 35% off they are more expensive than the PS4 days here in Scandinavia.

 

[ProtoByte]

There were almost no "new" releases to speak of.
Silent Hill 2 and FF7 remakes. Dragon's Dogma Redux.

Outlaws and Veilguard just aren't good
games.

Why? The game industry is lazy and uninspired. It doesn't look like the coming years will be that much better. This gen is turning out to be a waste.

 

[Woopah]

So .. has he shared any HW data this month?

His November report for UK has hardware information:

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/black-friday-video-game-sales-dip-in-the-uk-uk-monthly-charts

As does both his October reports:

European video game sales jumped 12% in October on the back of blockbuster launches | European Monthly Charts

18.5 million video games were sold across Europe during October, which is a rise of 12.4% compared with the same five w…

www.gamesindustry.biz

Dragon Ball and Undisputed deliver big sales in October, as Call of Duty claims No.1 | UK Monthly Report

Dragon Ball: Sparking! Zero is a real success for Bandai Namco, Call of Duty premium sales are down and Undisputed has been a knockout hit

www.gamesindustry.biz

 

[Magic Carpet]

And I continue to ignore all things final fantasy even into 2025 and beyond.

 

[proandrad]

Yeah and I wouldn't be surprised part 3 will have a cut down budget. Which is good news as it perhaps means less useless mini games and less useless checklist open world design (which honestly, was of -early- Ubisoft quality here). And perhaps less bullshit dialogue.

Maybe they pull a Lightning Returns. For what its worth, Lightning Returns was easily the best of the XIII trilogy imo, and its because it was made on a budget. Its a rather focused and short game, and I enjoyed it a fuck ton. I can recommend it on either Xbox or PC.

Lowering for the budget for part 3 might make it a better game. The worst part of rebirth was how bloated it was, the game was about 20-30hrs too long.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Lowering for the budget for part 3 might make it a better game.

I don't think it'd be better but for sure it'd make better financial sense.

I'd expect it to be more like Remake in terms of length and scope. A good portion of the remaining story takes place in areas already covered in the first two games so there's a big opportunity for reuse.

 

[ZehDon]

Most of the top 10 is literally AAA slop that is literally shoveled out...

No, they're "known quantities". Gamers know what they're getting so they have confidence in spending their money. With the current wave of AAA releases, sure, you might get something great like "Indiana Jones and the Great Circle" tucked away in there somewhere, but you'll more than likely just end up with a "Dragon Age: The Veilguard". Gamers have lost confidence in most of the AAA space, so most new games are going to suffer unless word of mouth saves it. Gamers have just retreated to what they know. As I said, current AAA releases are the results of five year long dev cycles, started before the end of the last generation. Games take too long to make for developers to course correct without going bankrupt, so we've got another year or so of AAA games that fit the current mould - a mould no one is buying. After that, dev's will have had time to correct and actually start delivering games made to appeal to the gamers who actually spend money.

... And "gamers" are in here celebrating that FF7R underperformed in the EU.

Make it make sense.

When I played FFVII Remake, and discovered that it's not a remake, I didn't buy the next one. Seems about half of Remake's audience did the same. And now about half the audience that actually stuck around for Rebirth didn't enjoy the open world bloat that padded out the game. I imagine the final entry's sales will be fucking abysmal. That's not "gamers" fault, that's Square Enix dropping the ball on what should've been the easiest goal in the history of gaming.

 

[T-0800]

What's the point of buying games the year they come out when you can just wait a year and get them for half price or cheaper and fully patched?

 

[adamsapple]

I don't think it'd be better but for sure it'd make better financial sense.

I'd expect it to be more like Remake in terms of length and scope. A good portion of the remaining story takes place in areas already covered in the first two games so there's a big opportunity for reuse.

Yeah, I don't think they've said, or realistically we should expect, them to make a massive engine change. Expect a fair amount of asset and area reuse from Rebirth.

 

[Flakster99]

No one should be surprised that fans of the single 40-80 hours game Final Fantasy VII aren't interested in a 3 game excessively drawn out filler stuffed trilogy that takes a 40 hour story and tries to make it 400 hours

The Remake Trilogy is like The Hobbit film trilogy of games. Everyone likes The Hobbit but nobody wanted a time wasting 3 movies about a really short book

Wow. You literally drew out a perfect example. Well done.

 

[LordOcidax]

No, they're "known quantities". Gamers know what they're getting so they have confidence in spending their money. With the current wave of AAA releases, sure, you might get something great like "Indiana Jones and the Great Circle" tucked away in there somewhere, but you'll more than likely just end up with a "Dragon Age: The Veilguard". Gamers have lost confidence in most of the AAA space, so most new games are going to suffer unless word of mouth saves it. Gamers have just retreated to what they know. As I said, current AAA releases are the results of five year long dev cycles, started before the end of the last generation. Games take too long to make for developers to course correct without going bankrupt, so we've got another year or so of AAA games that fit the current mould - a mould no one is buying. After that, dev's will have had time to correct and actually start delivering games made to appeal to the gamers who actually spend money.


When I played FFVII Remake, and discovered that it's not a remake, I didn't buy the next one. Seems about half of Remake's audience did the same. And now about half the audience that actually stuck around for Rebirth didn't enjoy the open world bloat that padded out the game. I imagine the final entry's sales will be fucking abysmal. That's not "gamers" fault, that's Square Enix dropping the ball on what should've been the easiest goal in the history of gaming.

Agree, SE achieved the impossible…

 

[ProtoByte]

Totally vindicated from this thread btw:

Way Too Many Remakes/Remasters

They're about to nominate and possibly award Elden Ring DLC for GOTY, and this is why. This non-exhaustive list outlines remakes and remasters that will have been released in 2024 alone: Age of Mythology Retold Alone in the Dark Remake Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney Trilogy Beyond Good & Evil...

www.neogaf.com

 

[SkylineRKR]

The problem with Rebirth’s sales is how incredibly bad Remake is. I have the collector’s edition because I’m a nostalgic fan, but after playing the first aberration I can’t blame anyone on passing on this. And the press as always is as critic as a rabid fan.

This is absolutely a problem. If they had released Rebirth as the first game, thus trimmed down the Midgar section to like the run time of the original game, it might've been a succesful project. The first game is absolutely woeful in terms of design and pacing. The second at least has a sense of adventure.

And Square should be commended for the fact every new character they manage to put into this lore adds absolutely fucking nothing of value.

 

[xenosys]

So you ignore one metric in favor of another. Makes perfect sense.

There's plenty of games that the "masses voted with their wallets" and undersold despite them being excellent. Your take is stupid and you should feel bad.

Only idiots equivocate quality with sales. If this were true, the Transformers franchise would be more highly regarded than the Shawshank Redemption.

The GOTY, Astro Bot, which has had more positive PR than Kamala Harris, probably didn't even make the top 40. Neither did Metaphor.

 

[Fake]

I mean....there are plenty of metrics out there one could use to say Veilguard is a "good" game. Metacritic, Steam user reviews, etc. Could be he played it and that's what he thinks. Either way, Dring describing Veilguard as a "good" game is hardly controversial.

He is not there to give his opinion. And sales are not in good position to tell what game is good or not.

Analyze date without giving your damn take.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

This is absolutely a problem. If they had released Rebirth as the first game, thus trimmed down the Midgar section to like the run time of the original game

Don't know why people want so badly to buy $60 short games, but whatever. Are the Trophy Whores that big of an audience?

, it might've been a succesful project.

The first part sold OK. Plus Sony's money.

 

[Topher]

He is not there to give his opinion. And sales are not in good position to tell what game is good or not.

Analyze date without giving your damn take.

You are worked up because he used the word "good" in reference to three games from established franchises? Bit of an overreaction, but ok....

 

[Guilty_AI]

People sleeping on Rebirth is honestly disgusting.

Ain't playing a remake of a game chopped up into 3 different games and bloated to the extreme. Even if i happen to be dying to play a new JRPG there are better options.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Don't know why people want so badly to buy $60 short games, but whatever. Are the Trophy Whores that big of an audience?



The first part sold OK. Plus Sony's money.

Well, FFVII Remake was a long game based on a very short section of FFVII. Which is arguably worse than what you depict.

If that part would've been cut short, and included with Rebirth thus having one game so far, the initial reception and sales might've been better than they are now. Many players bailed after Remake finding out it bloats the fuck out of the prologue chapter of FFVII and thats all there is to it. Square put themselves into this position by cutting a known classic into 3 parts. If people aren't cool with this approach, and aren't cool with the first release, they drop out. Its a huge gamble they took, in either case gamers can bail. And my guess is they over estimated the brand power of FF which isn't nearly as strong as it was 20 years ago. They had some stinkers over the years, and the landscape changed.

And really not that many people care about FFVII. Its an almost 30 year old game that saw some shitty movies and side projects over the years. I do as I played FFVII on release being an 18 yr old student, but I figure this audience is becoming a minority.

 

[xenosys]

And now about half the audience that actually stuck around for Rebirth didn't enjoy the open world bloat that padded out the game.

I don't get that impression at all, unless you've collated all the figures from the random keyboard warriors and a few critics online that make up a tiny fraction of the buyer-base and then came to the incorrect conclusion on purpose.

 

[lh032]

Bla.
We've seen several times this year alone that media and fan opinions aren't worth a dime. The broad mass has voted with their wallets, deal with it.

tbf, people vote with their wallet on fifa and COD, but i dont find it fun.

The mass just prefer GaaS games. Traditional games, even for well known IP, is at risk all the time.
Rarely these games will perform well compared to games as wukong, palworld. You need a miracle nowadays to do so.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I wonder how Wukong did in Europe.

 

[Raven117]

FF rebirth deserved better.

Some of those others… well…. Got what they deserved.

 

[Ozriel]

Bro stop this dumbfuckery that it's somehow a bad thing that awful games like Outlaws and Dragon Age didn't sell well.

Straight up gaslighting at this point.

But Stellar Blade is also in that basket of new IP that failed to crack the top 30.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Many players bailed after Remake finding out it bloats the fuck out of the prologue chapter of FFVII and thats all there is to it.

Square was upfront about that when the game was announced. My theory at the time was they didn't want to didn't want to make a decision on what to do about the Overworld (being on PS4)... so they made a full length game of just the Midgar section.

If people aren't cool with this approach, and aren't cool with the first release, they drop out.

That and also completing the game too. The trophy for completing the final chapter on the original PS4 version is at 36%... which isn't that bad given that it was a PS+ giveaway at one point ("Win a Battle" is 86% by comparison)

 

[Goliath77]

On top of all this, you're being reset to level 1 each time. You'll have to grind to unlock Firaga yet again. And in the next game yet again. You bested ultra powerful enemies in Remake, and in Rebirth you start off weaksauce again with only your base weapon and no perks. Narrative wise it just doesn't work.

To be honest, I really can't imagine playing all 3 in succession once the trilogy is completed. They are so fucking bloated this has to be hilariously terrible.

Really, Square could've saved all the hassle and just HD-2D FFVII instead. What they did to SO2 and DQ3 is just perfect.

Said this back when they first announced the trilogy. Splitting it killed the game.

For what its worth, anyone on pc wanting to experience the full game I would recommend the seventh heaven mods. Really crazy how much you can improve the base game

 

[Putonahappyface]

People sleeping on Rebirth is honestly disgusting.

I loved FF7 Remake, but the huge amount of side quests in FF7 Rebirth put me right off.

 

[ZehDon]

I don't get that impression at all, unless you've collated all the figures from the random keyboard warriors and a few critics online that make up a tiny fraction of the buyer-base and then came to the incorrect conclusion on purpose.

I've never played Rebirth, but everywhere people talk about the game, the sheer bloat is always one of the chief topics discussed outside of reviews. Case in point: the thread your posting in. Calling me purposefully dishonest while posting in a thread where exactly what I described is happening is frankly fucking shameful. Why bother posting at all if this is the best you can contribute?

 

[adamsapple]

But Stellar Blade is also in that basket of new IP that failed to crack the top 30.

Straight up gaslighting, bro

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Some companies with upcoming games must be thrilled by the environment in which they are releasing them

 

[asdasdasdbb]

I loved FF7 Remake, but the huge amount of side quests in FF7 Rebirth put me right off.

So don't play them?

(Really though, they are good. Much better than FF16's, that's for sure)

I've never played Rebirth, but everywhere people talk about the game, the sheer bloat is always one of the chief topics discussed outside of reviews.

I think that's coming from mainly Trophy Whores though. Which yes, getting the Plat is very long (and also difficult). But the Main Story is not excessively long albeit it is longer than Remake. FF12 is 40ish hours, Rebirth's Main Story is probably comparable.

 

[Fake]

You are worked up because he used the word "good" in reference to three games from established franchises? Bit of an overreaction, but ok....

Yep. I wouldn't put Dragon Age between FF never.

 

[nial]

I'm using his full quotation. Astro Bot and Wukong are new IPs, so is out of his quote.

Astro Bot is not a new IP.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Good to see people didn’t make it a success

 

[Putonahappyface]

So don't play them?

(Really though, they are good. Much better than FF16's, that's for sure)

I'll play the third installment if it's optimised well and not full of bloat.

 

[ArtHands]

According to some people here, this is unhealthy and that European console players are not supporting the hobby.

Time to stop chasing this console audience.

 

[BigBeauford]

Sad for rebirth, but this proves my theory that current game pays for what the last game did. Even if Intergalatic is shit, ND won’t pay till the next game.

There is a delay in public recognition for bad game development. It lasts one game cycle.

For rebirth, because remake was so full of filler and boring, people did not buy rebirth. That is a shame because rebirth is way, way better than remake, though it still has plenty of filler in the story sections.

FF13 was what did FF in

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Sad for rebirth, but this proves my theory that current game pays for what the last game did. Even if Intergalatic is shit, ND won’t pay till the next game.

this is very common and easy to recognize in films. (because there is a more transparent Box Office report)

Intergalactic is going to suffer due to what TLoP2 did.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

What's the point of buying games the year they come out when you can just wait a year and get them for half price or cheaper and fully patched?

FOMO, be part of the "Conversation" or just enjoy things sooner/first.

 

[ArtHands]

Not many 'fans' showed up then.

Game sold very mediocre (Square disclosed nothing about it, which is telling). And the fun part is, even more noped out after Rebirth making the third game sell worse by default.

Basically what this says is they should start finding and growing the fans on other platforms.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Basically what this says is they should start finding and growing the fans on other platforms.

Yeah. Final Fantasy needs to be on Switch.

 

[LordOcidax]

Basically what this says is they should start finding and growing the fans on other platforms.

The solution is going back to the FF7 roots… Not others platforms.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

I'll play the third installment if it's optimised well and not full of bloat.

Depends on what you mean by bloat of course. For right now, I'd say it'll be closer to Remake in terms of Main Story Length. So, you know, 30ish.

But I bet some of the mini games will be back with minor tweaks. Will Square exclude them from the Plat if that would make the Trophy Whores happy?

 

[rkofan87]

People sleeping on Rebirth is honestly disgusting.

as a ff16 diehard i feel your pain.
ps loved rebirth as well

 

[CoreyFlawless]

People sleeping on Rebirth is honestly disgusting.

For real. Was one of the best games I play for this generation, if not the best

 

[ArtHands]

Bla.
We've seen several times this year alone that media and fan opinions aren't worth a dime. The broad mass has voted with their wallets, deal with it.

That's why Square Enix is porting Final Fantasy VII REBIRTH to PC.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

People sleeping on Rebirth is honestly disgusting.

I've tried two or three times to get going in the game, but there's so much filler and fluff that it's hard to focus on any single thing. Guess I'll try again after I finish Visions of Mana.

 

[Mayar]

Sad for rebirth, but this proves my theory that current game pays for what the last game did. Even if Intergalatic is shit, ND won’t pay till the next game.

There is a delay in public recognition for bad game development. It lasts one game cycle.

For rebirth, because remake was so full of filler and boring, people did not buy rebirth. That is a shame because rebirth is way, way better than remake, though it still has plenty of filler in the story sections.

They simply chose the wrong path, or to be more precise, greed ruined them. There was absolutely no reason to split one 40-hour game into 3 parts and increase its duration by 3-4 times. All they had to do was what Capcom does and their recipe for Remakes - take an old game, create a neat remake of a classic, refresh it a little in places so that it looks normal from a gameplay point of view and make nice modern graphics, that's all. It would have been one game for 40-60 hours, on 2 disks and everything would have been great for them and there would have been no problems with sales.

In the end, they still have one more game left, they still need to finish the ending, and now they still have to push a filler for 20-30 hours into the ending to justify the price of $70, and all this will lead to a situation where, in the end, in the time that all the remakes are running, the original can be played 3-4 times from start to finish.

 

[T-0800]

this is very common and easy to recognize in films. (because there is a more transparent Box Office report)

Intergalactic is going to suffer due to what TLoP2 did.

I'll be buying Intergalactic day one because of their previous games and I rarely buy anything on release.

 

[ArtHands]

People sleeping on Rebirth is honestly disgusting.

They really screw up with the release of FF7 Rebirth on PS5.

Though to be fair this is not the only new games that doesn't do well on consoles.