Support NeoGAF

[BlueAlpaca]

I'm sorry, I saw this elsewhere.

Is that guy alive?

 

[ArtemisClydeFrog]

Is that guy alive?

 

[CaptainConlock]

I'm sorry, I saw this elsewhere.

Maybe it's slow motion and how the human body is mostly water, but that kid probably killed that man.

 

[Jagz]

Someone has probably stated this already, but the initial comments didn't, but no, Insomniac did NOT make Rivet look more curvy / feminine in the end. The version of Rivet that you see in the game is the one this guy was advocating for. What happened is, someone wanted to make the current version of Rivet look even more feminine (add hips, breasts, etc, to her) and this guy actually succeeded in preventing that. So Insomniac did actually bend to his demands and self censored themselves. Some of the initial comments were praising Insomniac, and misunderstood the situation.

 

[93xfan]

Maybe he should be more concerned with making himself more masculine looking. Just a thought

 

[Airbus Jr]

Someone has probably stated this already, but the initial comments didn't, but no, Insomniac did NOT make Rivet look more curvy / feminine in the end. The version of Rivet that you see in the game is the one this guy was advocating for. What happened is, someone wanted to make the current version of Rivet look even more feminine (add hips, breasts, etc, to her) and this guy actually succeeded in preventing that. So Insomniac did actually bend to his demands and self censored themselves. Some of the initial comments were praising Insomniac, and misunderstood the situation.

So what are you suggesting?

That we should praise purple Tyson Furry for his achievement?

 

[farmerboy]

That's why you don't pander to these crazies. It is never enough. And if you try, you're doing it wrong.

Fuck them all. Just go back to making games about things that matter instead of forcing in "diversification"

 

[cormack12]

HOW DARE YOU!

James STEPHANIE Sterling is absolutely STUNNING! She looks like something out of a a Dr Seuss novel!

These people treat hair colour and tits like cosmetic lootboxes or DLC

 

[SidViscous]

Someone has probably stated this already, but the initial comments didn't, but no, Insomniac did NOT make Rivet look more curvy / feminine in the end. The version of Rivet that you see in the game is the one this guy was advocating for. What happened is, someone wanted to make the current version of Rivet look even more feminine (add hips, breasts, etc, to her) and this guy actually succeeded in preventing that. So Insomniac did actually bend to his demands and self censored themselves. Some of the initial comments were praising Insomniac, and misunderstood the situation.

I was under the impression they lost, which is why they left the company and are now raging about the game being a huge success; why else would anybody be dumb enough to shout on twitter that they fell on their sword to try and get the main female character to have the sexual characteristics of a child.

 

[GymWolf]

I'm sorry, I saw this elsewhere.

Xavier version is probably more like this

 

[ToTTenTranz]

it’s a fucking space fox, why does she has to have tits?

Because what you call "a space fox" is actually an anthropomorphized fox, which means giving physical human traits to a fox. In this particular case it's an anthropomorphized female fox, and human females have (caution: trigger warning) #gasp# female human breasts.


The stupidest thing about all of this is because these 3 people made some virtue signaling grand stand because one of them was a pre-op transgender woman who didn’t have breasts implants.
The concern came exclusively out of making sure that trans person felt included by not putting female breasts into the design of an anthropomorphic female fox.


I.e. River couldn't have boobs because a trans woman in the team didn't have boobs either.

 

[Three]

Between him and the white privilege guy who twitted some weeks ago, insomniac seems in good hands...

I think it's the same guy

 

[Facism]

Man is a textbook predator.

 

[Bragr]

But how does it hurt people to make her look female?

 

[dugdug]

This dude now works for Aaron Ehasz who was accused at multiple studios, but, they pay him double what Insomniac did so it’s all good!

 

[PropellerEar]

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

so the soy fairy is still taking nut sacks away and replacing them with soy beans during the night.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

But how does it hurt people to make her look female?

because being female is problematic, the feminine aspect is problematic, females must try and be half baked males.

 

[Enjay]

lol at him saying heated conversation. Guarantee it was the quickest convo ever and he didn't even assert in any way that he had a problem.

 

[Jagz]

I was under the impression they lost, which is why they left the company and are now raging about the game being a huge success; why else would anybody be dumb enough to shout on twitter that they fell on their sword to try and get the main female character to have the sexual characteristics of a child.

No, he states:

"basically about whether we should make Rivet look more stereotypically feminine looking. That is, should she have wider hips, visible breasts (or bumps in her suit)"
"The lead writer, the lead character TD, and I wanted to keep her as-is."

So, they left Rivet "as-is", meaning she had already been designed to look the way she currently does in the game, and they didn't make her look "more stereotypically feminine looking" in the end.

He then states: "The argument largely petered out after that point, with all parties leaving incredibly frustrated"

So there was an argument between 2 parties; it petered out; nothing was changed to the existing "as-is" model in the end.

If you read the topic relating to this on Resetera; you can see that they're actually praising this guy and Insomniac for not changing Rivet's appearance.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

No, he states:

"basically about whether we should make Rivet look more stereotypically feminine looking. That is, should she have wider hips, visible breasts (or bumps in her suit)"
"The lead writer, the lead character TD, and I wanted to keep her as-is."

So, they left Rivet "as-is", meaning she had already been designed to look the way she currently does in the game, and they didn't make her look "more stereotypically feminine looking" in the end.

He then states: "The argument largely petered out after that point, with all parties leaving incredibly frustrated"

So there was an argument between 2 parties; it petered out; nothing was changed to the existing "as-is" model in the end.

If you read the topic relating to this on Resetera; you can see that they're actually praising this guy and Insomniac for not changing Rivet's appearance.

These are all grown men, why leave "incredibly frustrated" over something so silly? this just makes it sound like he's upset that he had to fight for this etc.

 

[PleaseWaitStation4]

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I guess all of us not in the gaming industry have never seen the market research results. I'm going to assume devs are just making games following popular opinion:

[People want female characters to be as butchy and angry as possible]

Makes sense guys want male characters to be buffed up action stars. Be as manly as possible. Never knew women wanted the same thing for female characters.

I guess what women want in games vs. real life doesn't even equate to hair. I still see women with hair just as long as decades ago. But I guess women want their female character to have dude hair.

 

[Herr Edgy]

These are all grown men, why leave "incredibly frustrated" over something so silly? this just makes it sound like he's upset that he had to fight for this etc.

You think it's silly, when you are part of a big organization that has to properly plan things then it's not something "so silly".
Discussions are had about every little single thing.

 

[IYAOYAS2019]

I am blocked on Twitter by him

A badge of honor.

 

[Unknown?]

Nah, but you know the people who screech are often found to be pedo’s/rapists or have some other deep dark secret which they’re trying to overcompensate for.

Yeah being this upset about the artists trying to feminize her screams pedo or rapist to me. They like to overcompensate so when they eventually get outed, people don't believe it.

 

[ShadowNate]

I guess what women want in games vs. real life doesn't even equate to hair. I still see women with hair just as long as decades ago. But I guess women want their female character to have dude hair.

Long hair is also a big technical challenge, still.
9 out of ten times, if not all ten times, it comes off wrong, glitching around, clipping through clothes. It's a big waste of everyone's time and artists and programmers will look for any workaround they can find or implement if they absolutely have to have a character with long hair.

So, yeah, short hair can serve practical reasons. For the rest of the facial characteristics though I can think of no technical related excuse.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

I guess all of us not in the gaming industry have never seen the market research results. I'm going to assume devs are just making games following popular opinion:

[People want female characters to be as butchy and angry as possible]

Makes sense guys want male characters to be buffed up action stars. Be as manly as possible. Never knew women wanted the same thing for female characters.

I guess what women want in games vs. real life doesn't even equate to hair. I still see women with hair just as long as decades ago. But I guess women want their female character to have dude hair.

while at the same time arguing for hormone blockers in children, child abuse, so they can look more feminine as adults by reducing masculinizing bone changes that would otherwise occur during puberty.

No logical consistency.

 

[Majukun]

still not sure if this guy crusade was won or lost in the end, but regardless the final design looks good and femenine enough to me...at least for what i expect from an antropomorphisized cartoon furry

 

[Camreezie]

This dude should be in tokyo getting a gold medal for his mental gymnastics

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

still not sure if this guy crusade was won or lost in the end, but regardless the final design looks good and femenine enough to me...at least for what i expect from an antropomorphisized cartoon furry

not like many animals have human like breasts, many animals are quite flat chested.

 

[gow3isben]

Guys are growing up to be so pathetic these days,they really are....glad I was born in the 70's.

Damn I didn’t know we had great grandpas in here good for you mang

 

[Dolomite]

He has a point. Ratchet doesn't have a barrel chest, and isn't 6'3 because you don't need to look like a human man for the audience to understand that he's a guy...space fox thing

 

[JerryinSoCal]

You think it's silly, when you are part of a big organization that has to properly plan things then it's not something "so silly".
Discussions are had about every little single thing.

When 5 people (some of whom got their way) leave a meeting "incredibly frustrated" about something this trivial it's a lack of maturity. There is no perspective here, he's talking like they were doing something major. I HIGHLY doubt the other guys were saying "let's put her in a thong and pasties lol they wanted to do something that's totally understandable and make the female character look different than the male. I know people point out how these are animals but they are fictional animals, the fact that they've humanized them already means it totally makes sense to have that discussion. This guy's tweet comes off to me as some guy who's trying to sound like he had to teach his co-workers something and couldn't believe that they weren't as enlightened as he was, his whole post reeks of "please give me internet clout" nonsense.

 

[Herr Edgy]

When 5 people (some of whom got their way) leave a meeting "incredibly frustrated" about something this trivial it's a lack of maturity. There is no perspective here, he's talking like they were doing something major. I HIGHLY doubt the other guys were saying "let's put her in a thong and pasties lol they wanted to do something that's totally understandable and make the female character look different than the male. I know people point out how these are animals but they are fictional animals, the fact that they've humanized them already means it totally makes sense to have that discussion. This guy's tweet comes off to me as some guy who's trying to sound like he had to teach his co-workers something and couldn't believe that they weren't as enlightened as he was, his whole post reeks of "please give me internet clout" nonsense.

I'm not arguing for the guy. Quite a few people on GAF, and in general, tend to badmouth anything unrelated to a person they have a bad opinion of.
It's normal for things to get heated at times when you combine tons of people, millions of dollars and the arts which are a complicated subjective matter. I'm also not saying this is great. It's simply normal to happen at times. Don't look for wrongs where there aren't necessarily are some; it devalues your statements.

 

[UnNamed]

They literally use him as a model to make this comics.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Guys like him are why birth rates are going down. Probably for the best in his case.

 

[geary]

Why is Kratos hypersexualised. Why dont they make him a dad bod with a fat belly and skinny arms and legs. And put some fucking cloths on him.

 

[Davey Cakes]

The official Rivet is the compromised design, right? It's definitely not the one that's too feminine. That'd be impossible.

The purple glasses guy didn't approve of one of the prior designs, methinks.

I'm actually fine with the final Rivet design and I don't even play R&C games. She looks like an exact alternate universe version of Ratchet. It works. That said, I'm really curious how a more shapely version would've turned out and why anyone would've had a problem with it.

 

[SlimySnake]

The official Rivet is the compromised design, right? It's definitely not the one that's too feminine. That'd be impossible.

Purple douche was out just weeks after that meeting. He likely had no impact on the discussion.

The other two people against the feminine design also left.

I have said this earlier in the thread, but Insomniac is super woke. See Miles. They were never going to give rivet big tits and a voluptuous ass. This was probably just a brainstorming session where the directors were trying to get an innocent point across about making her look feminine and this douchebag turned it into a super heated argument.

 

[GymWolf]

Long hair is also a big technical challenge, still.
9 out of ten times, if not all ten times, it comes off wrong, glitching around, clipping through clothes. It's a big waste of everyone's time and artists and programmers will look for any workaround they can find or implement if they absolutely have to have a character with long hair.

So, yeah, short hair can serve practical reasons. For the rest of the facial characteristics though I can think of no technical related excuse.

It's more of a retarded excuse.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

 

[alabtrosMyster]

I think that from the data we have seen in the Blizzard story it's 100% clear that feminine looking furries lead to sexual harrassment and sharing of explicit images at the office.

So from now on every video game character needs to be gender neutral and all games should play a 15minute conscientisation video with an attached quiz for every hour of play.

All existing games should be evaluated and their distribution should stop (even on torrent sites)... They need to be remade, the world is unsafe because of video games objectivisation and racism.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

The guy is trying to make it seem they wanted to sexualize rivet when it's more likely to differentiate her more from being a ratchet swap.

Xavier is clearly not a ratchet fan, at least precinematic(ps3) ratchet. We already have three female cat creatures as precedent and none are sexualized.

In fact in Angela's case she's taller and more muscular than ratchet and before her mask was knocked off was tougher and arguably more masculine. Something you would expect these types to support.

He also called Ratchet a space fix which is uhhhhhhhhh what?

It seems there were three trouble makers at insomniac and they wanted to try and start trouble is my guess. It just doesn't make sense to come to the conclusion he wants you to come to. There's to much history and precedent for it to work in this series, which he seems to have little familiarity with, which is strange since he was working at the company for some time.

 

[mckmas8808]

Ratchet's Game Director and Art Director wanted Rivet to look feminine. This guy and two others did not. Sounds like any other workplace disagreement but the fact that he publicly throws his bosses under the bus just rubs me the wrong way. There is nothing wrong with what they did. They are the directors. It's THEIR game, but this guy is making it sound like they were sexist and blatantly uses the Blizzard Activision sexual harassments lawsuits to make a point that there are other types of sexual discrimination taking place in the industry that we dont know about. As if making a female character feminine will somehow lead to hostile workplace environments and sexual harassments of women.












Pretty shameful stuff. This is why devs shouldnt even worry about female characters imo. You will never please these idiots.

That last quote is something. No, putting tits on rivet harms no one. If you are taking offense to it, you have other issues that you need to get sorted out.

This is an insane stance to take though. Like really? Nothing wrong with a proper discussion.

 

[crozier]

Frankly, boobs or no boobs, they managed to feminize her. The problem is this guy screeching that his way was morally superior, as if there isn’t an argument to give her female proportions. That’s the problem with all these types is that they imply that everyone who doesn’t reach their conclusions is morally deficient.

 

[SlimySnake]

This is an insane stance to take though. Like really? Nothing wrong with a proper discussion.

There was nothing proper about this discussion.

 

[HellforLeather]

K-Mart Danny Elfman can eat a dick.

 

[mckmas8808]

There was nothing proper about this discussion.

This discussion that he had was super stupid. But I'd like to live in a world where the original discussion happened and it didn't end so terrible. But more importantly, I wish this ex-dev could have posted about how this was a good experience even if he didn't get his way.

Why can't there be more positivity in gaming development narratives on Twitter?

 

[Unknown?]

This discussion that he had was super stupid. But I'd like to live in a world where the original discussion happened and it didn't end so terrible. But more importantly, I wish this ex-dev could have posted about how this was a good experience even if he didn't get his way.

Why can't there be more positivity in gaming development narratives on Twitter?

It's Twitter. You don't go on Twitter for positivity, just like you don't go to Yelp for serious reviews.