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[gioGAF]

I think this is being blown way out of proportion. Pinning it on this poor guy is terrible. There are many variables in engaging in such a confrontation, some poor 50 something resource officer is not exactly going to one man army this shit (btw, I don't agree with the whole "arm teachers nonsense").

Police teams on such scenes do a lot of communicating, trying to establish who the perpetrator is, what he looks like, etc. This poor guy has as much chance of shooting a random student or faculty member as he does of stopping the scumbag.

I would like to see all of the would be heroes dumping on this guy in the same situation. How long would it have taken you to assess the situation? How would you have reacted when some scared high schooler hiding from a psycho jumps out of a corner and runs in your general direction?

 

[rokkerkory]

He should have done his job. Getting fired or resigning is the easy way out.

 

[sushisamurai30]

It's ok. Some Browards deputies reportedly didn't enter the school either so he won't get most of the blame...maybe

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html

 

[IISANDERII]

Is this surprising to anybody? Cops show cowardice all the time like when they kill or brutalize defenceless civilians.

 

[SoulUnison]

He's a glorified truancy officer who has, at most, a pistol, and he was supposed to make a the decision to run towards a literal massacre with no information against an assailant who probably couldn't be picked quickly out of the crowd except he's carrying an assault rifle.

Dude fucked up, but in, like, the most understandable way ever.

The entire event lasted about 6 or 7 minutes, and he spent 4 minutes unable to psych himself up to run towards death?
That's... I can't fault that. It's unfortunate. It's not a great story. Still, it's incredibly, perfectly human.

 

[David___]

It's ok. Some Browards deputies reportedly didn't enter the school either so he won't get most of the blame...maybe

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html

Don't worry, I'm sure the English teacher would've stopped him if he had a gun when he isn't even properly equipped for the job he signed up for in the first place.

 

[SatansReverence]

He's a glorified truancy officer who has, at most, a pistol, and he was supposed to make a the decision to run towards a literal massacre with no information against an assailant who probably couldn't be picked quickly out of the crowd except he's carrying an assault rifle.

assault rifle
noun

1. a lightweight rifle developed from the sub-machine gun, which may be set to fire automatically or semi-automatically.

Please stop with that nonsense, it helps no one. An AR15 is not an assault rifle.

Now, there is a lot to be said about the trained use of a smaller weapon vs the untrained use of a larger one. Or even trained vs untrained in general.

I'm not going to crucify this officer, but can understand why people are upset. He did have a job to do and he failed to do it. But the punishment he gets, far outweighs that of any professionally outraged internet user. You aren't the one who has the live knowing that your inaction in the heat of the moment lead to the deaths of children. You don't have to live knowing you failed to protect those who placed their trust in you.

The officer is the one who is significantly more likely to kill himself in the wake of this or turn into an absolute shell of a human, a punishment worse than death to some.

 

[Ke0]

But Americans expect teachers with like a few days of training armed with a gun to engage, take fire, and return it like in an action movie

I really don't know why the Tories want this country to be more like America, you guys are nuts

 

[TDiddyLive]

When feasible, waiting for backup makes sense. This was not one of those times. His duty was to engage and stop the threat to the best of his ability.

 

[caffeware]

Don't blame the guy. His gun is too intimidate school punks, not to stop a shooting.

 

[Manus]

Can't believe people are still blaming the NRA and gun owners after news like this comes out.

Hell even after backup showed up they still didn't go in and waited outside.

 

[SatansReverence]

Can't believe people are still blaming the NRA and gun owners after news like this comes out.

Hell even after backup showed up they still didn't go in and waited outside.

Not exactly sure what you're getting at with this tbh, care to expand?

 

[bucyou]

Don't blame the guy. His gun is too intimidate school punks, not to stop a shooting.

Then he probably should of found a armed security officer job, he took an oath to protect and he failed, according to his boss, the sheriff.

 

[rokkerkory]

3 other officers didn’t do jack crap either. :/

 

[Wunray]

Dude is a straight up coward, and so are the other 3 officers that responded.

 

[DiscoJer]

But Americans expect teachers with like a few days of training armed with a gun to engage, take fire, and return it like in an action movie

Well, firstly, it's not like most school shooters have any training, either. They are only so deadly because they are facing completely unarmed people.

But beyond that, why assume that every teacher has no training? When I went to school, there were a handful of teachers that had been in the service. My driver's ed instructor was an ex-Marine drill sergeant and former State Trooper (highway patrol). I think he is certainly more than qualified to carry a gun in school. While he might be an extreme example, he wasn't alone.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Well, firstly, it's not like most school shooters have any training, either. They are only so deadly because they are facing completely unarmed people.

But beyond that, why assume that every teacher has no training? When I went to school, there were a handful of teachers that had been in the service. My driver's ed instructor was an ex-Marine drill sergeant and former State Trooper (highway patrol). I think he is certainly more than qualified to carry a gun in school. While he might be an extreme example, he wasn't alone.

Training for these situations is specific and ongoing. If you don't use it you lose it. Teachers do not have the time.

 

[GamingEnthusiast]

Do you guys not see this event as a false flag of some sorts? Too much suspicious information being leaked out.

 

[finowns]

My instructor who is ex-police was talking about this. He said before Columbine the policy was to wait for back up and clear room to room but now the policy is to engage the active school shooter no matter what. He also called him a coward

 

[camelCase]

Eh all this is just wanting to hoist the blame of this whole thing on a fall guy. I don't think there are many people who are sane who would have acted differently, dollars to donuts. Ppl don't choose to be cops b/c they really are down with the idea of getting shot at but b/c they need a job. This guy is a 9-5er like any one of us and the fact that his profession involves protecting lives instead of pushing papers is a roll of the dice.

 

[Damageinc103]

So are we saying in this thread that the officer should have had a AR15?

Because we need to get to the point we’re the person hired to protect children doesn’t have a excuse for not protecting children.

And that seems to be the excuse.

 

[camelCase]

So are we saying in this thread that the officer should have had a AR15?

Because we need to get to the point we’re the person hired to protect children doesn’t have a excuse for not protecting children.

And that seems to be the excuse.

I think the chances of the PO being successful in his coup with an AR-15 semi or not would be higher than with a pistol. Not that I want cops walking around with rifles, if I'm not allowed to.

 

[Damageinc103]

I think the chances of the PO being successful in his coup with an AR-15 semi or not would be higher than with a pistol. Not that I want cops walking around with rifles, if I'm not allowed to.

That’s fine... but if we are going to make excuses for a cop because he only has a hand gun... then he needs a AR15 because we don’t need excuses when it comes to protecting children.

 

[camelCase]

That’s fine... but if we are going to make excuses for a cop because he only has a hand gun... then he needs a AR15 because we don’t need excuses when it comes to protecting children.

Lol, sure. I think everyone here would be in favor of giving cops ARs if they were going to use them specifically against school shooters.

 

[TDiddyLive]

Eh all this is just wanting to hoist the blame of this whole thing on a fall guy. I don't think there are many people who are sane who would have acted differently, dollars to donuts. Ppl don't choose to be cops b/c they really are down with the idea of getting shot at but b/c they need a job. This guy is a 9-5er like any one of us and the fact that his profession involves protecting lives instead of pushing papers is a roll of the dice.

The entirety of the blame falls on the shooter, not the officer. But the officer had the duty to protect the lives of the children at the school he worked at. If he had done so, like all officers are sworn to do, the casualties may have been minimized.
You don't become a cop just to have a job, you join to enforce laws and protect the innocent.

 

[Agent_Carnage]

I thought they were placed there because the events of Columbine and needed an officer on duty during school hours just in case. The police continue to learn nothing they had a guy who is the first line of defense to stop a guy with a gun but he waited 4 mins till backup came by then it was too late.

He failed as the job description does include stopping an active shooter.

 

[gAg CruSh3r]

I thought they were placed there because the events of Columbine and needed an officer on duty during school hours just in case. The police continue to learn nothing they had a guy who is the first line of defense to stop a guy with a gun but he waited 4 mins till backup came by then it was too late.

He failed as the job description does include stopping an active shooter.

Ding, ding, ding.

I agree, If the officer actually went in and fired back. The gunner would have been stopped or occupy long enough until backup arrived. We pay them for this kinds of service. They are trained and understand what they got themself into. I would not want this kind of officer at my kids school if the can not fit a role of a true protector.

 

[Kamina]

At that time, was it known that it was just one shooter? Or could he have had reason to believe that he was potentially running into a group of shooters?

 

[Vicetrailia]

Multiple cops didn't go in either. I think it's safe to assume that policy should not be dictated by the good guy with a gun philosophy.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/parkland-school-shooting-broward-deputies/index.html

 

[Alx]

It would be interesting to know what is the recommended procedure in such situations (and how different strategies turned out in the past).
In the case of terror attacks in France, for example in the Bataclan shootings or the hyperkasher hostage situation, it doesn't seem that regular policemen were expected to enter the buildings on their own, it was mostly special SWAT-like teams that entered as organized groups (with dedicated weapons and protections).
Now it could be both a moral and strategical issue to "wait for the team to be ready" if you know the shooter is actively killing people in the meantime.

 

[Knob Creek]

No, but he took an oath.


Not an leo, nor do I want to speak for all agencies, but I assume most are trained to engage immediately regardless of backup.

You'd be wrong. I don't know of any agency that trains people to engage immediately without backup even in far less dangerous and threatening situations than an active shooter.

 

[Dark Knyght]

If I has a sidearm, I wouldnt confront someone who had a fully automatic weapon if i was by myself. The only was to confront him, would be to surround him with more firearms.

 

[JDB]

Ding, ding, ding.

I agree, If the officer actually went in and fired back. The gunner would have been stopped or occupy long enough until backup arrived. We pay them for this kinds of service. They are trained and understand what they got themself into. I would not want this kind of officer at my kids school if the can not fit a role of a true protector.

Or he would've been shot straight away. Are regular officers or security guards really equipped to deal with people shooting up the place that potentially have rifles, body armor and maybe even explosives?

 

[prag16]

You'd be wrong. I don't know of any agency that trains people to engage immediately without backup even in far less dangerous and threatening situations than an active shooter.

Multiple sources have stated that the policy for school shooters is to confront asap.

 

[Nikodemos]

Multiple sources have stated that the policy for school shooters is to confront asap.

Been this way since '99.
Broward County popo don fukt up hard.

 

[Nuova.]

If I has a sidearm, I wouldnt confront someone who had a fully automatic weapon if i was by myself. The only was to confront him, would be to surround him with more firearms.

How can so many people get this wrong? It was not an automatic weapon. Still, even against a semi automatic rifle, a handgun is almost useless.

 

[Knob Creek]

Multiple sources have stated that the policy for school shooters is to confront asap.

Could I see some of those sources? Running into a building with an active shooter blind and without backup is not recommended.

 

[TrainedRage]

Remember how after Columbine they released the school camera footage? Why cant they do the same to put all these 'theories' to rest? They don't have to show the graphic violence, just that he was there and it was him doing it.

 

[Corrik]

If I has a sidearm, I wouldnt confront someone who had a fully automatic weapon if i was by myself. The only was to confront him, would be to surround him with more firearms.

To be fair, I do not think by confronting a shooter they mean to walk up in front of him as he is shooting people waving a gun. It is moreso like taking cover or flanking him and shooting him while he is unaware or at least suppressing him to cover.

 

[David___]

Could I see some of those sources? Running into a building with an active shooter blind and without backup is not recommended.

In American policing, confronting active shooters is divided into two eras: before Columbine, and after Columbine. Before the 1999 shooting at Columbine High School in Colorado, police strategy was to wait for the SWAT team to arrive and then attack en masse with precise force. But after the two shooters in Columbine roamed the school for nearly 50 minutes, killing 13 and wounding 21, the police approach changed: Enter now. Whoever is there with a gun, whether a school resource officer or the first patrol officer to arrive, should go after the shooter.

“We teach that the first priority when you come on scene is to stop the killing,” said Pete Blair, executive director of the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training Center at Texas State University and one of the nation’s top experts on active shooter training. “The number one driving force is gunfire. If there’s gunfire, we teach the officers to isolate, distract and neutralize. We want people to go directly to the sounds of the gunfire.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d-armed-teachers-help/?utm_term=.f169bd5a861e

That's how the April 1999 massacre at Columbine High School -- where two young men killed 13 people -- shaped the way law enforcement respond to active shooter incidents such asWednesday's deadly rampage in Parkland, Florida.

"It changed everything," said James Gagliano, a retired member of the FBI's elite hostage rescue team.

"Nowadays, what we do is go to the sound of the guns," Gagliano said. "You get one, two, three, four people together. We're trained. We use particular formations."

Gagliano called it a "heterogeneous group" of first responders that could include local, state and federal agencies.

"You're going to the sound of the guns," he said. "The No. 1 goal is to interdict the shooter or shooters. In the old days, you took land. You went in. You clear the room. Then you slowly and methodically move to clear the next room. In this instance ... get to the shooter as quickly as possible and that's what they clearly did here."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/florida-school-shooting-columbine-lessons/index.html

 

[Knob Creek]

Lmao that's so stupid. A good way to get the cop killed, or the cop accidentally killing people he doesn't know aren't the shooter. Oh, hear gun shots? better run in without knowing who the shooter is, where they're at, what they're shooting with, etc. Just go Die Hard it, it'll work out fine.

 

[SatansReverence]

Interesting to note that while the police on campus did nothing, the coach died shielding students and a student used kevlar sheets to shield 60-70 students. But it's impossible to expect people to be brave isn't it?

If I has a sidearm, I wouldnt confront someone who had a fully automatic weapon if i was by myself. The only was to confront him, would be to surround him with more firearms.

Implying the shooter had a fully automatic weapon.............................

I don't know why people endless parrot the idea that the officer couldn't do anything because he only had a pistol. A simple confrontation forcing the shooter into a defensive position would have stopped the shooting then and there. Okay, have a standoff, great. No more students die. The officer is relatively safe by having the advantageous position and can wait for back up to arrive.

 

[prag16]

Lmao that's so stupid. A good way to get the cop killed, or the cop accidentally killing people he doesn't know aren't the shooter. Oh, hear gun shots? better run in without knowing who the shooter is, where they're at, what they're shooting with, etc. Just go Die Hard it, it'll work out fine.

Yeah trying the stop the killings in process, lmao so stupid. Doing your job lmao so stupid. Protecting innocent children lmao so stupid.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

I don't think it's stupid. The idea is to force a confrontation so the shooters attention moves away from shooting unarmed victims. Just by being there you're stopping them from being able to move around freely. Some of these shooters also kill themselves as soon as they think they're about to be caught. It's not like a hostage situation where you can play for time. Every minute wasted can mean more people killed.

 

[Corrik]

Interesting to note that while the police on campus did nothing, the coach died shielding students and a student used kevlar sheets to shield 60-70 students. But it's impossible to expect people to be brave isn't it?



Implying the shooter had a fully automatic weapon.............................

I don't know why people endless parrot the idea that the officer couldn't do anything because he only had a pistol. A simple confrontation forcing the shooter into a defensive position would have stopped the shooting then and there. Okay, have a standoff, great. No more students die. The officer is relatively safe by having the advantageous position and can wait for back up to arrive.

Actually, it is difficult to expect it. Everyone reacts differently in tragedy. Some freeze. Others have adrenaline kick in. Hard to know which you are until you are in the moment.

 

[David___]

Lmao that's so stupid. A good way to get the cop killed, or the cop accidentally killing people he doesn't know aren't the shooter. Oh, hear gun shots? better run in without knowing who the shooter is, where they're at, what they're shooting with, etc. Just go Die Hard it, it'll work out fine.

It'll be pretty fucken obvious who the shooter is when one person is calm and out in the open with a gun in their hands

 

[Knob Creek]

Yeah trying the stop the killings in process, lmao so stupid. Doing your job lmao so stupid. Protecting innocent children lmao so stupid.

It's not that simple. That's why, prior to Columbine, it was "wait for backup and coordination" and why most police forces don't run into a house with someone with a gun and instead let SWAT (aka a trained unit with proper protocols and protections) handle the situation. Lower the stakes and it's still "wait for backup and come up with a plan" for say, unruly prisoners. Running in guns blazing hoping you don't get shot or run into a bomb or whatever is the opposite of what you're taught to do.

Virginia Tech had armed officers. Ft. Hood is a fucking military base. They couldn't handle it, so expecting some random armed truancy officer to be running in like John McClane is absurd.

 

[bitbydeath]

I see no point piling on the guy, I'm sure he's attacking himself far worse than anyone here could.
It's a tough gig and clearly he was not cut-out for it.

 

[Rudelord]

It's not that simple. That's why, prior to Columbine, it was "wait for backup and coordination" and why most police forces don't run into a house with someone with a gun and instead let SWAT (aka a trained unit with proper protocols and protections) handle the situation. Lower the stakes and it's still "wait for backup and come up with a plan" for say, unruly prisoners. Running in guns blazing hoping you don't get shot or run into a bomb or whatever is the opposite of what you're taught to do.

Virginia Tech had armed officers. Ft. Hood is a fucking military base. They couldn't handle it, so expecting some random armed truancy officer to be running in like John McClane is absurd.

The problem is that while you're stacking SWAT officers up outside the doors to go in, the gunman is still inside killing people.
Even if you don't kill the gunman, engaging him keeps him occupied and gives others time to get away. That was his only job.

 

[prag16]

I see no point piling on the guy, I'm sure he's attacking himself far worse than anyone here could.
It's a tough gig and clearly he was not cut-out for it.

I agree there's no point in piling on, but at the same time nobody should be defending him, and many in here are.