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[SatansReverence]

I see no point piling on the guy, I'm sure he's attacking himself far worse than anyone here could.
It's a tough gig and clearly he was not cut-out for it.

This, the punishment he gets is worse than death.

And no, this isn't some victim narrative bullshit either.

 

[Knob Creek]

The problem is that while you're stacking SWAT officers up outside the doors to go in, the gunman is still inside killing people.
Even if you don't kill the gunman, engaging him keeps him occupied and gives others time to get away. That was his only job.

No, that isn't a resource officer's only job. It would be more accurate to say his job was to prevent the kid from getting into the building at all, not chase after him and get into a shoot out. Considering this guy was literally at the bottom of a pyramid of 20+ people who failed at their "only job", and this is something he's going to be thinking about every day for the rest of his life, the piling on him is pretty gross.

And I'm sure a lot of the people all over him for not "doing his job" are the same people vehemently against arming teachers, as if that will be any better.

 

[Rudelord]

No, that isn't a resource officer's only job. It would be more accurate to say his job was to prevent the kid from getting into the building at all, not chase after him and get into a shoot out. Considering this guy was literally at the bottom of a pyramid of 20+ people who failed at their "only job", and this is something he's going to be thinking about every day for the rest of his life, the piling on him is pretty gross.

And I'm sure a lot of the people all over him for not "doing his job" are the same people vehemently against arming teachers, as if that will be any better.

Oh, I'm not denying this was a monumental fuckup on every level when it came to agencies not doing their jobs. I'm not piling on the guy, but I'm not gonna defend him either.
I also don't think it's that terrible of an idea to have qualified, trained teachers be armed. Emphasis on qualified and trained, however.

 

[camelCase]

This, the punishment he gets is worse than death.

And no, this isn't some victim narrative bullshit either.

Could be different, not everyone is so sensitive about life/death issues. Doesn't mean he should be punished other than a demotion or something purely for the fact that it gave the dept notoriety. People fail at their jobs all the time and yea, this failure may have resulted in some lives lost, and even that is pure conjecture.

 

[Knob Creek]

Oh, I'm not denying this was a monumental fuckup on every level when it came to agencies not doing their jobs. I'm not piling on the guy, but I'm not gonna defend him either.
I also don't think it's that terrible of an idea to have qualified, trained teachers be armed. Emphasis on qualified and trained, however.

Teachers spend a not insignficant portion of their own money to get supplies for their classrooms because there districts are so underfunded. Classrooms are overcrowded with many teachers having 30+ kids in a room. We can't afford for kids to have pencils and paper, but we can afford for teachers to be armed and trained? The same teachers that are already overloaded and overstressed, we're supposed to give them weapons and worry about having to be a solider as well? Okay.

 

[Rudelord]

Teachers spend a not insignficant portion of their own money to get supplies for their classrooms because there districts are so underfunded. Classrooms are overcrowded with many teachers having 30+ kids in a room. We can't afford for kids to have pencils and paper, but we can afford for teachers to be armed and trained? The same teachers that are already overloaded and overstressed, we're supposed to give them weapons and worry about having to be a solider as well? Okay.

I forget that not every district is my own. Where I live a very large portion of the cost of schools and their supplies are covered by casinos, and the schools are large enough to have all the kids spread out. From that perspective it didn't seem like a terrible idea.
So apologies, I guess?

 

[LordPezix]

I mean I am not surprised. Just because they carry a badge and a gun, doesn't automatically make them heroes.

And it's easy to say one thing of how someone should've acted versus actually being there and feeling the terror and not knowing what to do.



Let's just be real with each other, not many of us, even though we would like to believe we would, would know how to properly respond to an event like this if it were to happen to us.

Given the size of some schools and spots someone could take up to get an ambush on you, I don't blame him for waiting outside. It's really the only option he had for getting the drop on the perp versus himself winding up dead.

 

[n0razi]

I know the NRA thinks life is like a Hollywood Western and the good guys go charging into a gun fight like some untouchable hero and mows the bad guu down in a hail of bullets but the reality of these situations is that they unfold so fast and chaotically I wouldnt even expect the officer to run in, I'd expect some assessment of the situation first.

What was the officer supposed to do exactly, just start spraying bullets around too? Imagine if there were plain clothed armed civilians around (exactlt what the NRA wants) how the fuck do you quickly and accurately even pin point who the perpetrator is when there are multiple people firing from different directions?

He should have done what he signed up for and was trained to do.


It's like a lifeguard watching a kid drown because he "froze" during the situation. It's a shitty situation to be in but that's exactly why you are there... if all you can be is a glorified hall monitor than you should not have a gun and badge.

 

[Knob Creek]

I forget that not every district is my own. Where I live a very large portion of the cost of schools and their supplies are covered by casinos, and the schools are large enough to have all the kids spread out. From that perspective it didn't seem like a terrible idea.
So apologies, I guess?

Take away the funding stuff and it's still a pretty weird idea. All it does is draw more attention to the idea that you might get shot any day, the logistics of protecting the gun (do the teachers carry the guns, gun safe, what if a kid steals a gun, what if there's an accidental discharge, what if a teacher shoots the wrong kids on accident?), teachers being more on edge being forced into a protector role and now seeing every student as a possible threat, etc.

There is no world where arming teachers should be the first idea, or anyone should think it's reasonable at all.

He should have done what he signed up for and was trained to do.


It's like a lifeguard watching a kid drown because he "froze" during the situation. It's a shitty situation to be in but that's exactly why you are there... if all you can be is a glorified hall monitor than you should not have a gun and badge.

That's not what a resource officer signs up for and is trained to do. They aren't cowboys protecting the farm. They're primarily used to break up fights and be good role models, not go chasing down shooters.

 

[prag16]

That's not what a resource officer signs up for and is trained to do.

Give it a rest. You've already been proven wrong on this point. You disagree with the protocol obviously, but the guy demonstrably did NOT do what he was supposed to do. Regardless of whether you think what he was supposed to do was "stupid" or not.

 

[Knob Creek]

Give it a rest. You've already been proven wrong on this point. You disagree with the protocol obviously, but the guy demonstrably did NOT do what he was supposed to do. Regardless of whether you think what he was supposed to do was "stupid" or not.

Resource officers don't sign up to chase gunmen. This is unrelated to what this guy did or didn't do. "Stop gunmen" is not the job description, that's not what they sign up for.

The goals of well-founded SRO programs include providing safe learning environments in our nation’s schools, providing valuable resources to school staff members, fostering positive relationships with youth, developing strategies to resolve problems affecting youth and protecting all students, so that they can reach their fullest potentials. NASRO considers it a best practice to use a “triad concept” to define the three main roles of school resource officers: educator (i.e. guest lecturer), informal counselor/mentor, and law enforcement officer.

https://nasro.org/frequently-asked-questions/

 

[prag16]

Resource officers don't sign up to chase gunmen. This is unrelated to what this guy did or didn't do. "Stop gunmen" is not the job description, that's not what they sign up for.



https://nasro.org/frequently-asked-questions/

Your own quote runs counter to your assertions. "Protect all students" and "law enforcement officer" are right there in black and white. You've already been told what the official active school shooter protocol is since 1999. No matter how much you disagree, the facts are not on your side. You are objectively wrong. Arguing the merits of the policy and the officer's responsibility is separate from that (I disagree with you there too, but that's at least subjective.)

 

[Knob Creek]

Your own quote runs counter to your assertions. "Protect all students" and "law enforcement officer" are right there in black and white. You've already been told what the official active school shooter protocol is since 1999. No matter how much you disagree, the facts are not on your side. You are objectively wrong. Arguing the merits of the policy and the officer's responsibility is separate from that (I disagree with you there too, but that's at least subjective.)

There's a big difference between protocol in the event of a shooting event, and the actual job being specifically about stopping shootings.

 

[bitbydeath]

That's not what a resource officer signs up for and is trained to do. They aren't cowboys protecting the farm. They're primarily used to break up fights and be good role models, not go chasing down shooters.

Why would they have a gun if it’s not their job to use it?

 

[Knob Creek]

Why would they have a gun if it’s not their job to use it?

Do you think a cop's job is to shoot people?

 

[bitbydeath]

Do you think a cop's job is to shoot people?

If the situation requires it then yes.

 

[Knob Creek]

If the situation requires it then yes.

"If the situation requires it" is pretty different than "that's the job". Despite the last few years seemingly being evidence of otherwise, police are trained to do everything in their power to NOT use their guns.

 

[bitbydeath]

"If the situation requires it" is pretty different than "that's the job". Despite the last few years seemingly being evidence of otherwise, police are trained to do everything in their power to NOT use their guns.

Yea, but in this situation, it required it right?

 

[Kotzen Ducha]

So now we're up to 4 officers who stood around instead of saving lives.
But ol' Deb and Hillary's friend Sheriff Israel said, "NUH UH!".

Something is fishy

 

[LordRaptor]

He should have done what he signed up for and was trained to do.


It's like a lifeguard watching a kid drown because he "froze" during the situation. It's a shitty situation to be in but that's exactly why you are there... if all you can be is a glorified hall monitor than you should not have a gun and badge.

No it isn't.

It's like a 55 year old man nearing the end of his career in what should be a pretty tame environment -it is a school - being confronted with a horrific act of violence and being the sole person on the scene capable of making a call as to the action required to deal with it, and - pretty fucking understandably - not wanting to end up as just another guncrime statistic in the process.

If the fact that he was presumably trained in the use of firearms, presumably had years of prior experience as to what the job involved, and presumably had had some preparation as to worst case scenarios and still didn't go in guns blazing john woo style to save the day like armchair call of duty experts would obviously do without thinking twice makes you question your worldview that any attacks can be easily stopped by bad ass hero shooters, well, good.
You should question that worldview.
Because its the worldview of an adolescent power fantasy.

 

[bitbydeath]

No it isn't.

It's like a 55 year old man nearing the end of his career in what should be a pretty tame environment -it is a school - being confronted with a horrific act of violence and being the sole person on the scene capable of making a call as to the action required to deal with it, and - pretty fucking understandably - not wanting to end up as just another guncrime statistic in the process.

If the fact that he was presumably trained in the use of firearms, presumably had years of prior experience as to what the job involved, and presumably had had some preparation as to worst case scenarios and still didn't go in guns blazing john woo style to save the day like armchair call of duty experts would obviously do without thinking twice makes you question your worldview that any attacks can be easily stopped by bad ass hero shooters, well, good.
You should question that worldview.
Because its the worldview of an adolescent power fantasy.

Is going in guns-blazing the only option or could he have taken cover and try talk him down at least buying time in the process for others to get free/backup to arrive? I mean if he goes unnoticed and gets a clear shot then why not take it but I don't think that'd be the only option aside from not getting involved at all.

 

[prag16]

Is going in guns-blazing the only option or could he have taken cover and try talk him down at least buying time in the process for others to get free/backup to arrive? I mean if he goes unnoticed and gets a clear shot then why not take it but I don't think that'd be the only option aside from not getting involved at all.

This. He could have stayed out of sight and tried to flank the shooter. He could have tried to find survivors and escort them out. Or fired a couple shots into the ground in a hallway to spook they killer and break his concentration.

It's not necessarily a binary John Woo frontal assault vs. stand in the parking lot with a load in your pants choice.

 

[LordRaptor]

Nobody knows what he did do, only what he didn't. The police have stated they are not going to release the tape in question.
Whether he was covering an exit while calling for backup and giving a situational report and requesting orders, or crying over a dead colleague, or huddled frozen in a corner with pissed pants - you don't know.

He had been working at the school for nearly a decade. These were his friends and co-workers under attack, and he had nearly no information about what was happening. Soldiers in active warzones have been known to freeze under those conditions.

 

[SatansReverence]

"If the situation requires it" is pretty different than "that's the job". Despite the last few years seemingly being evidence of otherwise, police are trained to do everything in their power to NOT use their guns.

Floor dust relocation technician is not part of my job description. I still sweep the fucking workshop floor when it's required.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Too bad Donald Trump wasnt there:

President Donald Trump is telling the nation’s governors that he would have run into the deadly Florida high school shooting “even if I didn’t have a weapon.”

The president is again finding fault with officers who didn’t stop the Florida gunman who carried out the massacre earlier this month. Trump says the deputies “weren’t exactly Medal of Honor winners.”

He tells 39 of the nation’s governors, “I really believe I’d run in there even if I didn’t have a weapon.”

Trump is vowing to turn the nation’s “grief into action” following the mass school shooting that killed 17 people. Trump says that while “our nation is heartbroken,” the U.S. needs “to have action” on measures related to school safety and gun violence.

 

[sushisamurai30]

The president would have stopped him, no doubt about it. That's why he's the president. He can stop anything

 

[prag16]

The president would have stopped him, no doubt about it. That's why he's the president. He can stop anything

Haha he's full of shit. That said, I guarantee there ARE people who would have run in there unarmed to try to save people. Those people definitely exist. Hell, if my kids were inside in such a situation you better believe my ass is going in there unarmed.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Trump is scared of walking down stairs but now hes up for running into a hail of gunfire. What a clown.

 

[JDB]

I don't see him running anywhere, let alone at a school shooter.

 

[rokkerkory]

I don't see him running anywhere, let alone at a school shooter.

hahaha

them bone spurs won't let him run

 

[mckmas8808]

Too bad Donald Trump wasnt there:

Come on man! You just can't go this far.

 

[sushisamurai30]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...opriately-lawyer-says/?utm_term=.8c3aaf5fb9f0

 

[Ancient Dragon]

A guy with a handgun vs a killer w/ an AR-15.

He clearly had a greater chance of dying than if he had fled. I don't blame him for choosing his own life over death. People need to stop with this fantasy that every "good guy with a gun" has the superheroic ability to stop a madman with an AR-15.

In the end I agree with this too.

It’s a reason (I imagine) why they waited for state police to arrive because they have bigger guns, military grade that certain didn’t think the police should have either.

 

[NickFire]

I feel a little bad for the guy becoming the primary focus when its clear as hell the FBI and all of the local law enforcement (that mattered) utterly failed to do what they were supposed to. Frankly, if it were not for a large chunk of the media wanting to protect the FBI's reputation because of Trump, I think this guy's name would have been more of a footnote than a story. But at the end of the day, he took the job and basically hid while the children he was there to protect (and allowed to carry a gun to protect) were being slaughtered. My sympathy does not travel far for him. He took the job! If he valued his life more than the kids, he should have done the honorable thing and declined the job, even if that meant re-assignment or dismissal.

 

[llien]

Too bad Donald Trump wasnt there:

shocked-well-not-that-shocked.gif

Parents would though.

 

[David___]

Too bad Donald Trump wasnt there:

He'd have to
A) Stop golfing
B) Stop bitching on Twitter
C) Stop campaigning

in order to do this, so I very much doubt that he could do that, let alone run.

 

[Dice]

My coworker told me it was only him at first but then backup came and FOUR of them stood outside. Is that for real?

 

[bucyou]

Take away the funding stuff and it's still a pretty weird idea. All it does is draw more attention to the idea that you might get shot any day, the logistics of protecting the gun (do the teachers carry the guns, gun safe, what if a kid steals a gun, what if there's an accidental discharge, what if a teacher shoots the wrong kids on accident?), teachers being more on edge being forced into a protector role and now seeing every student as a possible threat, etc.

There is no world where arming teachers should be the first idea, or anyone should think it's reasonable at all.





That's not what a resource officer signs up for and is trained to do. They aren't cowboys protecting the farm. They're primarily used to break up fights and be good role models, not go chasing down shooters.

In Florida, ROs are sworn law enforcement officers working for the county, so yeah, it kinda is what he was trained to do...

 

[David___]

My coworker told me it was only him at first but then backup came and FOUR of them stood outside. Is that for real?

https://nypost.com/2018/02/23/four-sheriffs-deputies-hid-during-florida-school-shooting/

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Can’t say I blame the guy. Plus I highly doubt he was adequately trained or equipped for the situation. He was basically the school bobby with a pistol. Not John McClane.

 

[Vitten]

Ha, just goes to show you how unrealistic those Hollywood action movies are.
In a similar situation the vast majority of us would just freeze up and be more concerned with selfpreservation instead of going John Mclane.
Unless you're special forces or ex-military there's no way you'll have the cold blooded courage to go solo after a killer on a rampage with an AR.

Makes Trump's proposal of armying teachers even more ridiculous.

 

[prag16]

Makes Trump's proposal of armying teachers even more ridiculous.

To be fair, arming teachers is as much a deterrent as anything else (not saying I'm necessarily in favor of it though). These sick fucks don't want a fire fight, they want fish in a barrel. If X amount of teachers are potentially armed (and not just one lazy over the hill glorified security guard) it stands to reason they may not bother. Especially if killing themselves wasn't part of the plan (as was the case with this situation).

 

[LordRaptor]

Not John McClane.

if anything hes Al

 

[CampbellzSoup]

This guy is a grade A asshole

 

[Manus]

What happened to the crazy guy shooting up those Republicans in VA? He was shot and stopped by a guard on duty. What about that shooting in a church in Texas? Was rushed and shot by a gun owning citizen. If these people can be brave enough to rush in and stop the situation so can this cop.

 

[Bl@de]

Of course Trump would‘ve stopped him. He is the real Batman.

 

[AlphaMale]

A guy with a handgun vs a killer w/ an AR-15.

He clearly had a greater chance of dying than if he had fled. I don't blame him for choosing his own life over death. People need to stop with this fantasy that every "good guy with a gun" has the superheroic ability to stop a madman with an AR-15.

How was it a mistake? If he had confronted the killer, he would have been killed on the spot.

So wouldn't arming teachers require them to be armed with at least AR-15s, to be....safe?

 

[AlphaMale]

4 minutes is pretty freaking fast. I just find it interesting that the news about him drops at the same times as news about the sheriffs department not acting on 18 warnings about the kid.

It's really not. 4 minutes is an eternity.

And the 18 ignored warnings or whatever it was, that's obviously bad too. Both "inaction" situations there are bad.

As someone who's been through something similar, I can say without hesitation that 4 minutes is an absolute eternity. Even 30 seconds of terror is an eternity.
The officer standing outside for 4 minutes had time to contemplate life, his own mortality, weighed the chances of survival, his pension, his coming retirement, and... probably what he was gonna say to reporters when it was all over.

 

[Da-Kid]

Guess he was afraid for his life? The police ain't shit.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

He'd have to
A) Stop golfing
B) Stop bitching on Twitter
C) Stop campaigning

in order to do this, so I very much doubt that he could do that, let alone run.

Don’t forget the bone spurs...