• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

FootballGAF 2021/2022 |OT| The battle to survive, rebuilding after disaster.

Dark Rider

Dark Rider

Member
JLB said:
I mean, I really like Carvajal, but Bale gave us literally a ton of titles.
Click to expand...

Not a single one of them was possible without Carvajal contributions, I think you are not paying attention to him when he played in those matches.

JLB said:
It went into the pitch against liverpool on kiev and in 120 seconds made the best goal of all times in a UCL final.
Click to expand...

1) Zidane goal in 2002 final was better in my opinion, especially that it was a volley from Zidane from a volley from Carlos.
2) We were in full control of the game and I believe we were going to win it anyway, maybe not 1-3 but we were winning it without Bale for sure.

JLB said:
Of course, we should always expect more from those more talented, but in any case I recall like 10 unique moments from Bale and cant say the same of the other players on your list.
Click to expand...

I'm shocked by your statement to be honest because all of these players have way more crucial moments. I urge to rewatch the crucial matches and pay careful attention to those players over the entire 90+ minutes.

JLB said:
BTW and offtopic, I rewatched the fianl with Liverpool.. and its unbelievable how good Kroos played that match.
Click to expand...

He (and the rest) did an immense tactical and technical work, please focus on other players too and enjoy the feast of joy you will get as a fan :messenger_beaming:

Gp1 said:
Probably another year in Brazil or US, then retirement
Click to expand...

Most likely yes.
There are some talks about PSG considering moving him on already though.
 
Dark Rider

Dark Rider

Member
[Simon Stone] The (United) squad was split after a disagreement over the captaincy, with Cristiano Ronaldo at its core, which left Harry Maguire unhappy. Rangnick didn't feel he got the support he needed and too many players failed to take responsibility for their own performance

www.bbc.co.uk

Manchester United: The pre-season challenges that face new boss Erik ten Hag

Pre-season looms for Manchester United and new boss Erik ten Hag will finally begin his journey as the club's fifth permanent manager since Sir Alex Ferguson retired in 2013.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
JLB

JLB

Banned
Dark Rider said:
Not a single one of them was possible without Carvajal contributions, I think you are not paying attention to him when he played in those matches.



1) Zidane goal in 2002 final was better in my opinion, especially that it was a volley from Zidane from a volley from Carlos.
2) We were in full control of the game and I believe we were going to win it anyway, maybe not 1-3 but we were winning it without Bale for sure.



I'm shocked by your statement to be honest because all of these players have way more crucial moments. I urge to rewatch the crucial matches and pay careful attention to those players over the entire 90+ minutes.



He (and the rest) did an immense tactical and technical work, please focus on other players too and enjoy the feast of joy you will get as a fan :messenger_beaming:



Most likely yes.
There are some talks about PSG considering moving him on already though.
Click to expand...

Oh, I watch every single match of Madrid wince forever, and in many cases I watch the matches multiple times. I know what Carvajal is capable of. But Bale made the 2nd goal of the 10ma (most important goal in Real Madrid history, maybe?) and yeah, im not so sure we were going to win Liverpool in Kiev without Bale. Counterfact at this point.
 
Dark Rider

Dark Rider

Member
[Swiss Ramble] UEFA have announced new Financial Sustainability regulations from June 2022. President Aleksander Ceferin explained, “The evolution of the football industry, alongside the inevitable financial effects of the pandemic, has shown the need for wholesale reform and new regulations.”



A joke.
 
Dark Rider

Dark Rider

Member
JLB said:
Oh, I watch every single match of Madrid wince forever, and in many cases I watch the matches multiple times. I know what Carvajal is capable of. But Bale made the 2nd goal of the 10ma (most important goal in Real Madrid history, maybe?) and yeah, im not so sure we were going to win Liverpool in Kiev without Bale. Counterfact at this point.
Click to expand...

I know you watch every game mate but since you don't remember big moments for the list of players I listed I felt you don't give them enough attention while you watch the matches so I urged you to pay them more attention.
Winning the 10th UCL was important but was not the most important win in our history, it was important to end the drought and to get back on the top, we won that match 4-1 and Bale goal was deflection from the cross-bar, Di Maria was the player who made that shot.
Seeing how were in full control of that match in Kiev I was calm and confident we will win it, never was in doubt during the match itself.

I guess well will never agree on Bale, that is fine on my side mate :messenger_smiling_with_eyes:
 
Dark Rider

Dark Rider

Member
[FC Barcelona]: AS Roma unilaterally cancel contract with Barcelona and they will NOT come to play in the Joan Gamper Trophy at the Camp Nou

www.fcbarcelona.es

La AS Roma no será el rival del Gamper

El equipo italiano ha decidido rescindir unilateralmente, y sin causa, el contrato suscrito. En las próximas 24 horas, el Club activará el retorno del importe de las localidades
www.fcbarcelona.es www.fcbarcelona.es

[AS Roma] Club Statement: Gamper Trophy

www.asroma.com

Club statement: Gamper Trophy

The club can confirm that it has withdrawn from its proposed participation in the Gamper Trophy, which was scheduled to take place in Barcelona on 6 A...
www.asroma.com www.asroma.com
 
JLB

JLB

Banned
Dark Rider said:
I know you watch every game mate but since you don't remember big moments for the list of players I listed I felt you don't give them enough attention while you watch the matches so I urged you to pay them more attention.
Winning the 10th UCL was important but was not the most important win in our history, it was important to end the drought and to get back on the top, we won that match 4-1 and Bale goal was deflection from the cross-bar, Di Maria was the player who made that shot.
Seeing how were in full control of that match in Kiev I was calm and confident we will win it, never was in doubt during the match itself.

I guess well will never agree on Bale, that is fine on my side mate :messenger_smiling_with_eyes:
Click to expand...

Nah my friend. La Decima was the most important moment in Real Madrid history since the reconstruction of the club by Bernabeu in the 50s.
Winning La Decima gifted us the 11, 12, 13 and even the 14. Just imagine losing against Atletico Madrid that final. Try to image for a second.
I cant express in words how much Real Madrid owes to Sergio Ramos.
 
Dark Rider

Dark Rider

Member
JLB said:
Nah my friend. La Decima was the most important moment in Real Madrid history since the reconstruction of the club by Bernabeu in the 50s.
Winning La Decima gifted us the 11, 12, 13 and even the 14. Just imagine losing against Atletico Madrid that final. Try to image for a second.
I cant express in words how much Real Madrid owes to Sergio Ramos.
Click to expand...

More important than our role in making the competition itself? more important than winning the very first iteration of it? more important than winning it 5 times in a row to establish ourselves as the top club?

I'd say winning the 7th is up there for debate too back in 1998, at that time other big clubs emerged and they all thought of use as a has been club on the European level, we had not won it for 30 years at that point and we needed our foot back in desperately to reinstall our winning mentality and our place back at the top.

Then come La Decima for sure and I know who we were playing against added HUGE impotence to win it, we can't lose this final for sure but we have had turning points before then that were important for us to be us in the first place.

We are discussing this in context of Bale though and and we were going to win that one anyway with or without him, he was just part of it like anyone else. As you said Ramos goal was the one the actually saved us that final.
 
Last edited:
Dark Rider

Dark Rider

Member
[Fabrizio Romano] Chelsea and Leeds have reached full agreement for Raphinha! Official bid accepted around £60/65m [add ons included]. Main part of amount to be paid immediately. It’s done between clubs.

 
B

Bladed Thesis

Member
arena-aonadmit-it-eh-man-utd-fans-are-are-the-9758044.png
 
Dark Rider

Dark Rider

Member
Thomas Müller: "It's enormous fun to watch the horses grow up, the moments you have with them from birth. The advantage is that they can't speak. The horse doesn't say to you in the evening: You did a shitty job today, why did you miss the goal again?"

www.bild.de

FC Bayern: Beim Reiten ist Thomas Müller gerne „Spielerfrau“ für seine Lisa – CHIO in Aachen!

Auf dem Fußballplatz ist er der Star beim FC Bayern – beim Pferdesport macht Thomas Müller aber gerne den Handlanger für seine Ehefrau Lisa!
www.bild.de www.bild.de
 
Dark Rider

Dark Rider

Member
DKehoe said:


FWgGL0rX0AAFyXx
Click to expand...


signing that deal is a blunder in my book, spending the money on Lewandowski is a mistake too. If you are desperate for money that you have to do bad deals like this one then every pinny you make you ensure to spend on long term players that will serve the club for a long time, Lewandowski is a short term band aid he will retire soon.
 
Last edited:
DKehoe

DKehoe

Member
Dark Rider said:
signing that deal is a blunder in my book, spending the money on Lewandowski is a mistake took. If you are desperate for money that you have to do bad deals like this one then every pinny you make you ensure to spend on long term players that will serve the club for a long time, Lewandowski is a short term band aid he will retire soon.
Click to expand...
I just don't get how they are still acting like this when they're apparently in the middle of serious financial issues. They were getting players to agree to reduced wages, had to sign this rights deal that they were reluctant to before and it looks like they'll be selling de Jong to alleviate some of this. Yet they're also apparently looking to sign Lewandowski, Kessie, Christensen, Azpilicueta, Alonso and Bernardo Silva.
 
Dark Rider

Dark Rider

Member
TV channel "Comedy Central" becomes official sleeve sponsor of Union Berlin

Comedy Central is new sleeve partner

The summer break has come to an end for the first-team of 1. FC Union Berlin with Urs Fischer and his players returning to pre-season training at the Stadion An der Alten Försterei.
www.fc-union-berlin.de www.fc-union-berlin.de
 
Dark Rider

Dark Rider

Member
DKehoe said:
I just don't get how they are still acting like this when they're apparently in the middle of serious financial issues. They were getting players to agree to reduced wages, had to sign this rights deal that they were reluctant to before and it looks like they'll be selling de Jong to alleviate some of this. Yet they're also apparently looking to sign Lewandowski, Kessie, Christensen, Azpilicueta, Alonso and Bernardo Silva.
Click to expand...

The original deal they did not sign was multiple times worse than this one so they got an improved (still bad) deal. This shows how bad the original deal is.
What they are trying to do is try to clear any inflated contracts they have regardless of if they can afford it at the moment or not, they realize these contracts were bad deals for themselves and try to force clear them all out now. whatever new contracts they sign (new or current players) they will try to make sure are not inflated contracts.
 
Dark Rider

Dark Rider

Member
[Fabrizio Romano] Paolo Maldini has accepted AC Milan proposal, he will stay as club director after winning Serie A title - contract signed and deal now in place, same for sport director Massara - ACMilan. Milan will now focus on top targets in their transfer list after signing Divock Origi.

 
Last edited:
JLB

JLB

Banned
Dark Rider said:
More important than our role in making the competition itself? more important than winning the very first iteration of it? more important than winning it 5 times in a row to establish ourselves as the top club?

I'd say winning the 7th is up there for debate too back in 1998, at that time other big clubs emerged and they all thought of use as a has been club on the European level, we had not won it for 30 years at that point and we needed our foot back in desperately to reinstall our winning mentality and our place back at the top.

Then come La Decima for sure and I know who we were playing against added HUGE impotence to win it, we can't lose this final for sure but we have had turning points before then that were important for us to be us in the first place.

We are discussing this in context of Bale though and and we were going to win that one anyway with or without him, he was just part of it like anyone else. As you said Ramos goal was the one the actually saved us that final.
Click to expand...

Everything that you mentioned on the first line were the result of Bernabeu's reconstruction of the club, the only historical moment that IMO tops La Decima.
To be fair, my only point of doubt was La Septima. That was incredibly important as well.... maybe at the same level.
 
Last edited:
Dark Rider

Dark Rider

Member
JLB said:
Everything that you mentioned on the first line were the result of Bernabeu's reconstruction of the club, the only historical moment that IMO tops La Decima.
To be fair, my only point of doubt was La Septima. That was incredibly important as well.... maybe at the same level.
Click to expand...

For me the 7th was clear cut more important, 30 years out is no joke, that is generations that come and gone without UCL, pulling yourself back from 30 years of regress is much harder than 12 years. I do understand why you feel the tenth was more important I just disagree nothing more.

Labadal said:
Salah stays.

Nice.
Click to expand...

Congrats mate :messenger_beaming:
He has his best performances with Liverpool so it is the place for him after all.
 
Dark Rider

Dark Rider

Member
Premier League pushes ahead with plans to launch its first NFTs, despite collapse in market

inews.co.uk

Premier League pushes ahead with plans to launch its first NFTs, despite collapse in market

An insider with knowledge of the situation says the collection is likely to be released later in the year if all 20 clubs agree to a launch
inews.co.uk inews.co.uk

I assume they believe they have enough influence to force it to be at least profitable so they will try anyway. I don't think they feel they will lose any reputation points for it so for them they are losing little for a possible monumental profit from this scam scheme.
 
DKehoe

DKehoe

Member
Dark Rider said:
[The Times] Excl : Cristiano Ronaldo has asked to leave Manchester United.

www.thetimes.co.uk

Cristiano Ronaldo tells Manchester United: It’s time for me to leave

Cristiano Ronaldo has asked to be allowed to leave Manchester United should the Premier League club receive a satisfactory offer in the transfer window. The 3
www.thetimes.co.uk www.thetimes.co.uk
Click to expand...
I’m kinda fine with this. From a footballing perspective I feel like he puts a ceiling on how well the team can do. Because you can’t not play him and then you need to build your play around him since while there are certain aspects he’s excellent at there are also gaps in what he contributes. If ten Hag is trying to do a reboot then maybe not having to build the team around him, when he’s not going to be around for long anyway, is for the best. Although it would mean potentially having to sign a new striker on top of all the other gaps in the squad.

And on the off the pitch side of things, the allegations around him have made me not as enthusiastic about his return as some others were. I know that the case was recently resolved but the Der Spiegel documents, which weren’t allowed to be submitted as evidence, made for a really troubling read.

Also, fuck me some of his fans are insufferable.
 
T

TaylorSwiftFan

Member
DKehoe said:
I’m kinda fine with this. From a footballing perspective I feel like he puts a ceiling on how well the team can do. Because you can’t not play him and then you need to build your play around him since while there are certain aspects he’s excellent at there are also gaps in what he contributes. If ten Hag is trying to do a reboot then maybe not having to build the team around him, when he’s not going to be around for long anyway, is for the best. Although it would mean potentially having to sign a new striker on top of all the other gaps in the squad.

And on the off the pitch side of things, the allegations around him have made me not as enthusiastic about his return as some others were. I know that the case was recently resolved but the Der Spiegel documents, which weren’t allowed to be submitted as evidence, made for a really troubling read.

Also, fuck me some of his fans are insufferable.
Click to expand...
What document did Der Spiegel get? The out-of-court settlement? How is that evidence?

Also, he dragged an absolute shit team through the group stages of the CL and to a Europa League spot last year. It’s understandable that he wants to leave.
 
JLB

JLB

Banned
DKehoe said:
I’m kinda fine with this. From a footballing perspective I feel like he puts a ceiling on how well the team can do. Because you can’t not play him and then you need to build your play around him since while there are certain aspects he’s excellent at there are also gaps in what he contributes. If ten Hag is trying to do a reboot then maybe not having to build the team around him, when he’s not going to be around for long anyway, is for the best. Although it would mean potentially having to sign a new striker on top of all the other gaps in the squad.

And on the off the pitch side of things, the allegations around him have made me not as enthusiastic about his return as some others were. I know that the case was recently resolved but the Der Spiegel documents, which weren’t allowed to be submitted as evidence, made for a really troubling read.

Also, fuck me some of his fans are insufferable.
Click to expand...
ManU would be in a much worst spot if not for cristiano last season.
Got your point of not building a team around a 37 yo player, but do you really need to do that?Madrid has a team around benzema (35), bayer with lewa(35) for example. The day they are no longer around you get a replacement.
 
Last edited:
DKehoe

DKehoe

Member
FireFistAce said:
What document did Der Spiegel get? The out-of-court settlement? How is that evidence?

Also, he dragged an absolute shit team through the group stages of the CL and to a Europa League spot last year. It’s understandable that he wants to leave.
Click to expand...
Documents detailing conversations with his lawyers which included him admitting to them that he had sex with her against her will. I get that these cases can be big, complicated things with all kinds of angles. So perhaps this isn’t the smoking gun it appears to be. But it’s enough to make me feel uncomfortable about it, particularly when after he signed I saw so many people holding him up as a role model not only as a great footballer (which he undeniably is) but as a great person that kids should be looking up to. As a United fan I don’t want to feel this way. He’s the best player I’ve ever seen play for the club. I’d love to have felt unambiguously good about his return. But for a bunch of reasons I don’t.

JLB said:
ManU would be in a much worst spot if not for cristiano last season.
Got your point of not building a team around a 37 yo player, but do you really need to do that?Madrid has a team around benzema (35), bayer with lewa(35) for example. The day they are no longer around you get a replacement.
Click to expand...
It's hard to say for sure but did United get better after signing him? I don't think you can say that's the case. I think them going from 2nd the season prior to 6th with him is more down to other teams having had setbacks in that prior season (e.g. Liverpool had a bunch of injuries, Chelsea were being managed by Lampard for most of it rather than Tuchel) which they then rebounded from so I think it was always going to be hard to replicate that the following season. But it seems like United took a step back from that point rather than progressing and the points totals certainly suggest that's the case. Yeh you can point to how many goals Ronaldo scored, particularly compared to others, but the team was being set up for him to score so of course he scored more than anyone else. Madrid and Bayern don't have that same sort of singular focus. To use Benzema as an example, at this point he's a more well-rounded player than Ronaldo who can contribute more than just goals. As I said above I feel like Ronaldo puts a ceiling on how well your team can do overall. Also it would be one thing if United were in a position where they could be realistically challenging for the league/Champions League next year and Ronaldo was potentially that last piece of the puzzle to give the team that final push towards that. But that's clearly not the point United are at right now. Ronaldo isn't going to be around in a few years anyway so why not just rip the plaster off now and start building a style of play that will hopefully have them back a the top level in a few years. Not that it's a guaranteed thing of course but personally I think that's what I'd prefer to see.
 
Dark Rider

Dark Rider

Member
[talkSPORT] Breaking: Manchester United remain steadfast in their view Cristiano Ronaldo is not for sale. New manager Erik ten Hag sees Ronaldo as a key part of his plans, talkSPORT sources understand

 
T

TaylorSwiftFan

Member
DKehoe said:
Documents detailing conversations with his lawyers which included him admitting to them that he had sex with her against her will. I get that these cases can be big, complicated things with all kinds of angles. So perhaps this isn’t the smoking gun it appears to be. But it’s enough to make me feel uncomfortable about it, particularly when after he signed I saw so many people holding him up as a role model not only as a great footballer (which he undeniably is) but as a great person that kids should be looking up to. As a United fan I don’t want to feel this way. He’s the best player I’ve ever seen play for the club. I’d love to have felt unambiguously good about his return. But for a bunch of reasons I don’t.


It's hard to say for sure but did United get better after signing him? I don't think you can say that's the case. I think them going from 2nd the season prior to 6th with him is more down to other teams having had setbacks in that prior season (e.g. Liverpool had a bunch of injuries, Chelsea were being managed by Lampard for most of it rather than Tuchel) which they then rebounded from so I think it was always going to be hard to replicate that the following season. But it seems like United took a step back from that point rather than progressing and the points totals certainly suggest that's the case. Yeh you can point to how many goals Ronaldo scored, particularly compared to others, but the team was being set up for him to score so of course he scored more than anyone else. Madrid and Bayern don't have that same sort of singular focus. To use Benzema as an example, at this point he's a more well-rounded player than Ronaldo who can contribute more than just goals. As I said above I feel like Ronaldo puts a ceiling on how well your team can do overall. Also it would be one thing if United were in a position where they could be realistically challenging for the league/Champions League next year and Ronaldo was potentially that last piece of the puzzle to give the team that final push towards that. But that's clearly not the point United are at right now. Ronaldo isn't going to be around in a few years anyway so why not just rip the plaster off now and start building a style of play that will hopefully have them back a the top level in a few years. Not that it's a guaranteed thing of course but personally I think that's what I'd prefer to see.
Click to expand...
First, there’s no way to know whether those documents are real or not.

Secondly, Utd only won 2 of the last 7 games and 3 of the last 9 games in the season that they finished 2nd. The team was already imploding well before Ronaldo came. Liverpool’s defense was decimated by injuries as well. Solksjaer played absolute crap football and just sat back and countered. We fluked so many results in that season. Like the Wolves game where Rashford scored a lucky deflection to win at the last minute. This season teams sat back against United and Solksjaer had no answer to that - tactically he was inept. It doesn’t help that Ragnick was given just as bad but without the hundreds of millions that Solksjaer was given. Also, the 17 goals was Greenwood aren’t there anymore. A lot of players turned trash this season - Rashford and Bruno being the main ones. Is Ronaldo responsible for the clowns in the defense? I don’t think so. The team has been poor with or without Ronaldo.
 
DKehoe

DKehoe

Member
FireFistAce said:
First, there’s no way to know whether those documents are real or not.

Secondly, Utd only won 2 of the last 7 games and 3 of the last 9 games in the season that they finished 2nd. The team was already imploding well before Ronaldo came. Liverpool’s defense was decimated by injuries as well. Solksjaer played absolute crap football and just sat back and countered. We fluked so many results in that season. Like the Wolves game where Rashford scored a lucky deflection to win at the last minute. This season teams sat back against United and Solksjaer had no answer to that - tactically he was inept. It doesn’t help that Ragnick was given just as bad but without the hundreds of millions that Solksjaer was given. Also, the 17 goals was Greenwood aren’t there anymore. A lot of players turned trash this season - Rashford and Bruno being the main ones. Is Ronaldo responsible for the clowns in the defense? I don’t think so. The team has been poor with or without Ronaldo.
Click to expand...
Like I said, maybe it's not a smoking gun but it's enough to make me uncomfortable with the way he is held up. Particularly since a lot of people just don't seem to be aware of the details of the case. It feels like people are burying their heads in the sand over it. It's worth pointing out that when Der Spiegel initially reported that there was a non-disclosure agreement in place between Ronaldo and a woman (at that point she was anonymous) Ronaldo's team claimed that was totally made up. They then later had to admit that the agreement existed. Same goes for the tax fraud.

I already said I felt like their league position flattered them that season and things like Liverpool's injuries meant replicating 2nd would be incredibly unlikely. But you can compare United's 20/21 and 21/22 seasons using expected league points, going off of xG and xGA, and see that there's a significant drop off from one season to the other. So it wasn't just a case of fluking a few games because those wouldn't count towards that method. Am I saying Ronaldo is the sole or even the biggest problem with United? No, of course not. There's clearly all kinds of issues with the team. But there's this idea that he put the team on his back and things would be so much worse without him. Maybe that is true but there doesn't really seem to be evidence of it.
 
Windle Poons

Windle Poons

Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

The Football Season 24/25: 115 Reasons For Man City Not To Win Anything
|OT| Sports 5 6 7 8 9
418
16K
T8SC replied
FootballGAF 2022/2023 |OT| Pitch side seats in every stadium, rise your banners.
2 3 4 5 6
251
17K
ForAcademicPurposes replied
FootballGAF 2020/2021 |OT| Attending every single game from our home stands.
|OT| 44 45 46 47 48
2K
134K
Dark Rider replied
FootballGAF 2019/2020 |OT| Does Your Team Got What It Takes To Be Crowned?
44 45 46 47 48
2K
111K
Dark Rider replied
  • Locked
2015/2016 UEFA Champions League Final |OT| Real Madrid vs Atletico de Madrid
27 28 29 30 31
2K
70K
Zabojnik replied
Top Bottom